Writing and MTL

Queenfisher

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So, I was thinking about how one of my readers says they read my book in MTL and that makes me wonder --

Is there a way to make one's writing be nicer/more efficient for something like Google to translate into a more or less readable material in any language other than English? Or does some of my "creative, lyrical, metaphor-heavy" writing become unreadable in the MTL? Should we care about the possible MTL of our stories and take it into account during writing or not? Like, diminishing the use of made up words and concepts, of the more creative or dialectal words, the use of idioms and phrases that can be ambiguous to the machine translator but are otherwise obvious to a human reader?

Or would it decrease the quality (or freedom, or beauty -- whatever you view as important) of the English writing too much?

Do you ever consider this possibility when you write?

:blob_hmm_two:

And also, does anybody know if there are general guidelines of what the machine translator works with best and what it struggles with? (Just in case, to look out for :blob_reach:).
 

Assurbanipal_II

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So, I was thinking about how one of my readers says they read my book in MTL and that makes me wonder --

Is there a way to make one's writing be nicer/more efficient for something like Google to translate into a more or less readable material in any language other than English? Or does some of my "creative, lyrical, metaphor-heavy" writing become unreadable in the MTL? Should we care about the possible MTL of our stories and take it into account during writing or not? Like, diminishing the use of made up words and concepts, of the more creative or dialectal words, the use of idioms and phrases that can be ambiguous to the machine translator but are otherwise obvious to a human reader?

Or would it decrease the quality (or freedom, or beauty -- whatever you view as important) of the English writing too much?

Do you ever consider this possibility when you write?

:blob_hmm_two:

And also, does anybody know if there are general guidelines of what the machine translator works with best and what it struggles with? (Just in case, to look out for :blob_reach:).

Forget it. Google sucks big time.
 

Queenfisher

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Have any of you tried to read your own stories in MTL to your native/second language? Just curious ^^.

(Also, I suspect my mom would totally MTL my stories if she ever found them, with her stalkerish tendencies :blob_blank: . I hope she does not).

That said, some people do read them like that (and seem to be enjoying it), so it makes me wonder how much of my actual book comes across through it... :blob_hmm_two:
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Have any of you tried to read your own stories in MTL to your native/second language? Just curious ^^.

(Also, I suspect my mom would totally MTL my stories if she ever found them, with her stalkerish tendencies :blob_blank: . I hope she does not).

That said, some people do read them like that (and seem to be enjoying it), so it makes me wonder how much of my actual book comes across through it... :blob_hmm_two:

You gave me an idea.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Have any of you tried to read your own stories in MTL to your native/second language? Just curious ^^.

(Also, I suspect my mom would totally MTL my stories if she ever found them, with her stalkerish tendencies :blob_blank: . I hope she does not).

That said, some people do read them like that (and seem to be enjoying it), so it makes me wonder how much of my actual book comes across through it... :blob_hmm_two:

Works relatively well with my works. Short sentences favour MTL. :blob_reach:
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Into which language? :blob_cookie:

My book is so funny to read in Russian, though. Especially when I Google-translate the comment section as well and end up with "bros before hoes" --> "comrades in front of garden equipment" :blobrofl:.

We all like garden equipment. :blob_aww:
 

yansusustories

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Have any of you tried to read your own stories in MTL to your native/second language? Just curious ^^.
I actually did (into German). It's ... alright. It does really well with general sentences but has a problem with idioms (I have seen the strangest things there) and slang. Also, it doesn't do tone too well. Like, one of my novels starts with a side character cursing ("Fucking shit!") which is translated pretty literally. Now, while I think you can say it like this in English, the German equivalent is way too strong so you'd need to use a different expression. So I'd say cursing might be a problem too.
Another problem is actually pronouns: I had a reader as well that MTLed my stuff and then lectured me on keeping my pronouns consistent. Well, they were. Google fucked them up. I was really surprised when I found out that the same thing happens between English and German despite the fact that both languages use both feminine and masculine pronouns.
Sometimes, verbs will also be a bit meh. They're not necessarily wrong but it just sounds really odd to use a certain one instead of one that is pretty much synonymous but might be used in some cases more often than others.
Also, any more complex grammatical construction is impossible, and - this is what irks me the most - google will randomly leave out parts. So, you'll have a main and a sub-clause and the sub-clause just won't appear in the translation, leaving you with either a noticeably incomplete sentence or - worse - a sentence that makes sense but is still missing half of it.
 

Queenfisher

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We all like garden equipment. :blob_aww:

As all productive comrades should! :blob_salute:

I actually did (into German). It's ... alright. It does really well with general sentences but has a problem with idioms (I have seen the strangest things there) and slang. Also, it doesn't do tone too well. Like, one of my novels starts with a side character cursing ("Fucking shit!") which is translated pretty literally. Now, while I think you can say it like this in English, the German equivalent is way too strong so you'd need to use a different expression. So I'd say cursing might be a problem too.
Another problem is actually pronouns: I had a reader as well that MTLed my stuff and then lectured me on keeping my pronouns consistent. Well, they were. Google fucked them up. I was really surprised when I found out that the same thing happens between English and German despite the fact that both languages use both feminine and masculine pronouns.
Sometimes, verbs will also be a bit meh. They're not necessarily wrong but it just sounds really odd to use a certain one instead of one that is pretty much synonymous but might be used in some cases more often than others.
Also, any more complex grammatical construction is impossible, and - this is what irks me the most - google will randomly leave out parts. So, you'll have a main and a sub-clause and the sub-clause just won't appear in the translation, leaving you with either a noticeably incomplete sentence or - worse - a sentence that makes sense but is still missing half of it.

Thanks for such a detailed breakdown! :blob_pat_sad:

My god, now I am scared because I not only use heavy and complex sentences, but also rely too much on tonal sarcasm/exclamations and cReaTive curses +_+. And the amount of "poetic" verb uses............

:blob_no:

But oh well. As long as they still read it even if it's like this! :blob_cookie:
 

yansusustories

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But oh well. As long as they still read it even if it's like this!
Well, I think it depends on the reader a bit as well. I personally really dislike reading MTL so I might also be overly critical. A reader that often uses MTL to read will likely be better at guessing what is meant so they will still be able to follow the story at least and only miss out on the language-aspect which ... well, it might even happen with some actual translations since some things just won't translate well into some other languages.
 

DarkGodEM

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Long story short... NOPE.
You can however use a more clear and concise English that has no words that cannot be directly translated to the language you think ur readers use. Also avoid using figures of speech and proverbs since those loose all meaning most times.
 

DarkGodEM

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If most of them use the same language and contribute you A LOT on patreon you could always hire a translator but it tends to be quite expensive. I myself am a translator to Spanish and Portuguese but charge 15 USD a chapter... So it can get pretty expensive
 

yansusustories

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If most of them use the same language and contribute you A LOT on patreon you could always hire a translator but it tends to be quite expensive. I myself am a translator to Spanish and Portuguese but charge 15 USD a chapter... So it can get pretty expensive
And this is why I opted to translate my stuff on my own :blob_pout: I mean translators are worth every dollar you pay them but I guess for most of us here, that's just completely impossible to do.

I'll say though: Some readers like translating as well so maybe you could also work with one of them to make a semi-professional translation happen? Just an idea ~
 

thedude3445

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I feel bad for readers who will undoubtedly be confused by the poorly translated lines in many people's stories. Idioms and descriptive language will be lost, and some dialogue will be rendered unreadable. But... the readers who are intense enough into stories to do this know that going in, and they know to temper their expectations accordingly. So do not make your own writing worse to accommodate those people, because they'll probably understand.

I wish there was an easier way to translate our stories into other languages, but at the moment it's quite expensive and most web authors can't afford it. Will that ever change? With technology, maybe yes, but it won't be anytime soon unfortunately.
 

K5Rakitan

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I've wondered this, too. I've tried to encourage people to translate my story into other languages, but it seems like nobody has bitten yet.
 

DarkGodEM

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And this is why I opted to translate my stuff on my own :blob_pout: I mean translators are worth every dollar you pay them but I guess for most of us here, that's just completely impossible to do.

I'll say though: Some readers like translating as well so maybe you could also work with one of them to make a semi-professional translation happen? Just an idea ~
I would rather have an author do a meager translation job and hire me as an editor. my rates fall to less than 1/5th and the end result, although quite less polished (bc I wont be writing it from scratch, only correcting) will be pretty much on par or even better than most novels on SH... grammar here sucks big fucking time.
 

DarkGodEM

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Also the time it takes me to translate a single chapter I could edit 4 or 5 in this fashion... much more productive
 

yansusustories

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I would rather have an author do a meager translation job and hire me as an editor. my rates fall to less than 1/5th and the end result, although quite less polished (bc I wont be writing it from scratch, only correcting) will be pretty much on par or even better than most novels on SH... grammar here sucks big fucking time.
Ah, that's actually a really smart idea :blob_blank: Can I ask if you just go over the translated text in such cases for spotting grammar stuff or if you compare it with the original text as well for consistency?
 

DarkGodEM

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Ah, that's actually a really smart idea :blob_blank: Can I ask if you just go over the translated text in such cases for spotting grammar stuff or if you compare it with the original text as well for consistency?
Sure, PM me or search for me on discord and we can talk about that idea and fine-tune rates of editing, etc.
 
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