line editing for the greater good

ducky

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Hey all. According to my password creation date, it's been about three and a half years since I was on here (discord, actually) offering free, harsh, line editing services. Is this still something you authors are asking for? Has this job been chewed up and spit out by AI at this point?

The forums are nice and snappy. I like it.
 

BernKatstel

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AI editing hasn’t been that good in my experience. I think you’d see some demand with the more successful/serious writers.
 

ducky

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AI editing hasn’t been that good in my experience. I think you’d see some demand with the more successful/serious writers.

People were very interested back then, so I figured I'd hop into a sub-forum for editing, but... there is none! So, maybe they aren't super interested.
 

RepresentingEnvy

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People were very interested back then, so I figured I'd hop into a sub-forum for editing, but... there is none! So, maybe they aren't super interested.
It has only been a short period of time.
 

ducky

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It has only been a short period of time.

I just meant that maybe they weren't interested as much now, based on not seeing a sub-forum for editing specifically. Not that I expect a ton of replies here immediately. It's no biggie. Just curious as to the current state of affairs in that space.
 

Insomniologist

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I think plenty of people would love to have a real person edit their writing...
Okay, that doesn't sound right.
People would love to have a real person PROOFREAD their writing.
Hell, I would do it for others if I wasn't busy writing my own stuff.

Also:
Me, using AI to edit?
NEVER!
Grammar is literally the only thing I'm good at!
 

Glitched

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Pfft, my ass doesn't even edit. I mean I probably should, but I don't. That being said, I'm sure a lot of authors would like an editor. I just think it's more of how much $, and what your style looks like. If it ruins the authors signature style, they probably won't want ya. I only know one author with an editor, and another problem they have is synchronized schedules. But anyway, gl on finding someone. You probably wanna give more details about your services if you're trying to off them though.
 

TheEldritchGod

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Hey all. According to my password creation date, it's been about three and a half years since I was on here (discord, actually) offering free, harsh, line editing services. Is this still something you authors are asking for?
I've written books for decades. No.

Has this job been chewed up and spit out by AI at this point?
Yes. Dear god, between Grammarly and ChatGPT, I don't need proofreaders or editors anymore. My Error rate was low, to begin with, but Grammerly pointed out stuff I missed. In fact, I've gotten sloppy because of it. I write faster now because I know I don't have to go slow to catch everything.

No BTW, I ignore most of the suggestions. They're usually stupid. I don't care if it's free.

For suggested revisions, ChatGPT is the bomb. Yeah, woke as fuck, but I don't NEED an editor who thinks like me. In fact, I LOVE that fact it's antagonistic. I love being challenged by someone who goes:

"Have you thought about being more inclusive and getting rid of the violence and not murdering women and children?"

Why yes, I thought about it. I'm gonna do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you recommend!


Do you want to know what I need?
I need someone who is an author to co-write with me.

What I mean is, that I either need someone who will go over what I wrote and go, "Have you thought about...?" Or "Interesting, but I have some questions because this part, PLOT WISE, makes no sense."

I need a continuity editor. I need an editor who can understand my vision and go, "I got some ideas" Then will WRITE those ideas, give it to me, and then let me re-write it as I see fit. I need a co-author who is the so-PILOT, but not the actual pilot. There can only be one Head Chef in this kitchen, but someone to handle the finger foods/food prep would be nice.

You are advertising to be what is, effectively, what I can get from just using two programs.

And there are other programs I can use to help out, on TOP of those two.

If I had the time, I could make a MUCH better book than I'm making. To the point of it being a PROFESSIONAL book, I would be proud to publish, except I'm fairly committed to doing this for free. I don't care about making money. I got plenty of that.

You cost money and are something I can replace with AI.

Sorry about that. It's why I got out of banking and moved into human services. I ain't being replaced any time soon. Ain't no way they are coming up with an economic replacement for "professional ass-wiper" in my lifetime.

Maybe you want to pivot to what an AI can't do. Continuity/creativity editor.

You know... ghost writing.
 

ducky

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Do you want to know what I need?
I need someone who is an author to co-write with me.

What I mean is, that I either need someone who will go over what I wrote and go, "Have you thought about...?" Or "Interesting, but I have some questions because this part, PLOT WISE, makes no sense."

I need a continuity editor. I need an editor who can understand my vision and go, "I got some ideas" Then will WRITE those ideas, give it to me, and then let me re-write it as I see fit. I need a co-author who is the so-PILOT, but not the actual pilot. There can only be one Head Chef in this kitchen, but someone to handle the finger foods/food prep would be nice.

This is exactly, or at least, a large part of, what I consider a line editor to be. So, yes. That's what I am saying I have done and am still interested in doing. Also, I did it for free before because amateur writers don't have money, and I'm tired of reading PUBLISHED works (light novels, to be fair) and cringing that editors, translators, and possibly localizers didn't catch stuff.

Or maybe copy editor is more the proper term...
 

melchi

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I've written books for decades. No.


Yes. Dear god, between Grammarly and ChatGPT, I don't need proofreaders or editors anymore. My Error rate was low, to begin with, but Grammerly pointed out stuff I missed. In fact, I've gotten sloppy because of it. I write faster now because I know I don't have to go slow to catch everything.

No BTW, I ignore most of the suggestions. They're usually stupid. I don't care if it's free.

For suggested revisions, ChatGPT is the bomb. Yeah, woke as fuck, but I don't NEED an editor who thinks like me. In fact, I LOVE that fact it's antagonistic. I love being challenged by someone who goes:

"Have you thought about being more inclusive and getting rid of the violence and not murdering women and children?"

Why yes, I thought about it. I'm gonna do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you recommend!


Do you want to know what I need?
I need someone who is an author to co-write with me.

What I mean is, that I either need someone who will go over what I wrote and go, "Have you thought about...?" Or "Interesting, but I have some questions because this part, PLOT WISE, makes no sense."

I need a continuity editor. I need an editor who can understand my vision and go, "I got some ideas" Then will WRITE those ideas, give it to me, and then let me re-write it as I see fit. I need a co-author who is the so-PILOT, but not the actual pilot. There can only be one Head Chef in this kitchen, but someone to handle the finger foods/food prep would be nice.

You are advertising to be what is, effectively, what I can get from just using two programs.

And there are other programs I can use to help out, on TOP of those two.

If I had the time, I could make a MUCH better book than I'm making. To the point of it being a PROFESSIONAL book, I would be proud to publish, except I'm fairly committed to doing this for free. I don't care about making money. I got plenty of that.

You cost money and are something I can replace with AI.

Sorry about that. It's why I got out of banking and moved into human services. I ain't being replaced any time soon. Ain't no way they are coming up with an economic replacement for "professional ass-wiper" in my lifetime.

Maybe you want to pivot to what an AI can't do. Continuity/creativity editor.

You know... ghost writing.
I mean, isn't people leaving comments on your chapters saying they can't believe Toshi would turn around and do this or that sorta the same thing?
 

TheEldritchGod

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I mean, isn't people leaving comments on your chapters saying they can't believe Toshi would turn around and do this or that sorta the same thing?
Yeah, but the thing is, it'd be nice to have someone to point it out before publishing.

Although... Honestly? Most of those questions are things that I already asked myself and so the answers are coming up in future chapters. I don't think I know of a question from a reader that actually made me change what I was going to write. You know, someone asks, "Why is Y doing X?" and then go, "Oh. I should add that."

Then again, I have a near-autistic level of pattern recognition. I mean, I'm working on making the underpinning magic system with the full knowledge I will never explain it in full to the reader. It's there so I can use it as a reference, not as something to tell the reader.

For everything I've written, I bet I've written at least half that in things I took out because I felt it was redundant, or its there for the express purpose of making sure I know what my own continuity is. If you consider the fact I've published 816k, and I've got about another 85k in the can, it's quite the claim to say I got about 400k I'm never going to show anyone, but... yeah. I do.

I used to say, If you want a good story, write three times what you need, throw out half, then SQUEEZE until you get it down as tight as you can. However, I've gotten better over the years. I know what needs to be tossed often before it gets out of the outline stage. Now I just write 150% of what I need and then squeeze it down.

But in regards to your original question, you have to understand, I foreshadow things YEARS in advance. When there is something odd, It usually is because it means something. So when Toshi acts odd, I have a reason, I just might not reveal it until the next book. I know that can get annoying, but it's how I write. My continuity is tight, but the price is, In order to let the mystery unfold, it involves trust from the reader, which can take a long time to build up. I find those kinds of questions are telling me I'm on the right track, even if the reader often finds it annoying.

It also doesn't help I don't do black and white morality. I don't even do shades of grey. I got a whole RAINBOW of morality. How the MC can kill a bunch of people then say three chapters later, I only kill monsters. Well, to the MC, those people were monsters. The acts they committed forfeited their claim to being human. In terms of Good Vrs Evil, what he did was evil, but he redefined them as "monsters" and so they no longer had the protection afforded to "humans".

In one aspect, it makes the guy look like a hypocrite. I suppose he is, but he is internally consistent.

That's what most of my comment questions are often about. Internally, all my characters are consistent, but objectively, what they say, what they claim, and what they do might not seem to fit.

I have an omniscient 3rd party narrator who is reliable, but my characters are often NOT.
The forums are nice and snappy. I like it.
Odd thought...

Have you tried being a "publisher"?

What I mean is, I have no desire to figure out and deal with the mess of self-publishing. I like my stories and maybe after I finish all of them, I'll go through the effort of publishing somewhere. However, if you wanted to clean it up, submit the cleaned-up version to me, then find someplace that doesn't fuck with my ownership of my IP to publish, I wouldn't mind going 50/50.

People are already stealing my shit to publish and sell for money, so if someone wants to split the profits with me, in exchange for knowing I hold ALL creative rights and I don't want to have to deal with the paperwork, that'd be fine.

I'm sure there are people out there who would feel the same way. So instead of just being an editor, become an editor/publisher and seek out people who aren't self-publishing.

Don't go to these shady sites that retain publishing rights or control of the IP if you upload anything. I'm talking Amazon or some shit. I dunno. I don't care enough to figure it out. I'd want to know exactly what was going on before you published because I care about the quality of my work. However, if you filed the serial numbers off FTS, I'm sure one could make some change off that.

But I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind a manager, basically. I used to have one of those when I was a ghostwriter. Alas, that industry had collapsed BEFORE ChatGPT, and it's only gotten worse.
 
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ducky

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Odd thought...

Have you tried being a "publisher"?

What I mean is, I have no desire to figure out and deal with the mess of self-publishing. I like my stories and maybe after I finish all of them, I'll go through the effort of publishing somewhere. However, if you wanted to clean it up, submit the cleaned-up version to me, then find someplace that doesn't fuck with my ownership of my IP to publish, I wouldn't mind going 50/50.

People are already stealing my shit to publish and sell for money, so if someone wants to split the profits with me, in exchange for knowing I hold ALL creative rights and I don't want to have to deal with the paperwork, that'd be fine.

I'm sure there are people out there who would feel the same way. So instead of just being an editor, become an editor/publisher and seek out people who aren't self-publishing.

Don't go to these shady sites that retain publishing rights or control of the IP if you upload anything. I'm talking Amazon or some shit. I dunno. I don't care enough to figure it out. I'd want to know exactly what was going on before you published because I care about the quality of my work. However, if you filed the serial numbers off FTS, I'm sure one could make some change off that.

But I'm sure there are people who wouldn't mind a manager, basically. I used to have one of those when I was a ghostwriter. Alas, that industry had collapsed BEFORE ChatGPT, and it's only gotten worse.

I guess that may also fall into what I enjoy doing. It may certainly be something to look into. I know I also get irritated reading on my Nook and seeing portions of the art chopped off, so it'd be nice to have control over how those are displayed. Do people really continue to seek out paper publishing? It's just so easy to chuck your work onto all those Bandcamp/Gumroad/Patreon style sites, but I suppose a middle ground publisher might be cool.

I remember back when I actually had a Google account, the terms for Google+ specifically said if you made it on their site, they owned it. That was a huge turn-off for me at the time, so now, a handful of years later, I no longer have any big tech accounts. I own my own domains for email addresses and have a fediverse server of my own. No one is active, but I also don't advertise much.
 

Jet

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Holy hell! That would be so amazing! Make it the same as at scribophile, Critiquecircle and such! Also, add some advanced AI editing that people mentioned! Maybe collaborate with grammarly, prowritingaid or something? I'd probably start living at this site if such changes took place! That's the most helpful thing for a writer!
 
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