Lower the score in retaliation for killing a character

[RedHunter2296]

Today I released a new chapter of my novel in which a character, who, although she was there for a very short time, was important to establish the reasons why the protagonist is the protagonist. But it seems that some of the readers who have been following my story very closely simply lowered the grade for that very reason. As always without comment on why the low grade.

My question is why lower the score when you see it is necessary for the plot to advance and not simply as a way to surprise the reader. As an exemplary case of necessary death, I would put the most famous, Kamina from Tengen Toppa, who despite how important he was and how much everyone liked him, was necessary for the series to reach so high. In the way of how not to do it, I would put the anime of Akame ga Kill, where it seems that they simply kill characters for pretending that it is something dramatic. Well, there comes a point that they even feel ridiculous.

What do you think, it is deserved to lower the note because a character, although loved, necessary to advance the plot, dies, or that it is right to have to respect the favorite characters of the readers?

Valkyria Squadron, by popular request I put a link to my novel in case you want to see it

 

[Deleted member 45782]

I think neither.

Readers ofc will hate it when authors kill off their favorite characters.

But let's be honest, good stories - not everyone comes out alive and the stakes are high. Look at Game of Thrones, Throne of Glass Series, even Percy Jackson & the Olympians (few minor characters dies).

It is up to authors how they write their story.

People just don't want senseless killing in story that doesn't make sense, but good stories doesn't mean everyone surviving the outcomes. So it probably depends on how the character's death was written out, but in the end, its authors story and they write and create the story.

 

[Zavha0mnic]

Kill them all, for the plot shall advance! These words shall rip anger from your soul as your favorite one-shot side character dies to the minions of the villain to allow the protagonist to reach the macguffin!

 

[LostLibrarian]

If readers don't like something, they'll give bad ratings. That's all there is to it...
The best story theory can fail due to execution...

 

[Reisinling]

Try to remember people have hundreds of reasons for following your story- not all of them are aligned with your goals as the writer. So if someone was searching for fluff for example, and that need was until now mostly met, they might lower it. It's funny because in this situation, the more successful you are at making the death impactful, the more likely they would be to lower the score.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Also I took a look at your story and the tags say "girls love", "harem" and "slice of life". Those are tags that normally have nothing to do with life-ending drama, so the reader expectation will be that they can grow fond of characters without the fear of death.

So here is the question: did you make it clear in the first chapter(s) (whether through setting, tone, or events) that people will die and those "happy go lucky tags" aren't the entire picture?

If not, then people might drop your story and give it a bad rating, because you "shocked" them with something they didn't expect. Which also often feels like a waste of time, which in turn leads to more bad ratings.

There is also a difference between lowering scores or new los Ratings...


If you don't forshadow such stuff early (!), some of your readers will expect different things. You can also use that for a big shock effect, but either way, there will probably readers who will dislike it.

That's the same for any big story where stuff happened out of the blue.
Even successful stories like Re:Zero get their fair share of outrage when they pull such stunts...

 

[Agentt]

Also I took a look at your story and the tags say "girls love", "harem" and "slice of life". Those are tags that normally have nothing to do with life-ending drama, so the reader expectation will be, that they can grow fond of characters without the fear of death.

So here is the question: did you make it clear in the first chapters (whether through setting, tone, or events) that people will die and those "happy go lucky tags" aren't the entire picture?

If not, then people might drop your story and give it a bad rating, because you "shocked" them with something they didn't expect. Which also often feels like a waste of time, which in turn leads to more bad ratings.


If you don't forshadow such stuff early (!), some of your readers will expect different things. You can also use that for a big shock effect, but either way, there will probably readers who will dislike it.

That's the same for any big story where stuff happened out of the blue.
Even successful stories like Re:Zero get their fair share of outrage when they pull such stunts...

Yes, but how do you expect the author to foreshadow that stuff? Say, if I put action tag in my story, but it turns out that the mc is cannot do that thing where he thinks of manipulating mana, and then create a brand new world ending magic, that will ofcourse disappoint the readers. If MC is going to a forest, the readers will again be dissatisfied that the MC actually needs to rest and is not destroying the ecosystem all the time.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Yes, but how do you expect the author to foreshadow that stuff?

Tone, setting, story structure, POV, imagery, ...
The way you start your first chapter can also define expectations.

You don't have to foreshadow every event, but you have to set the "type" and "theme" of your story.

 

[Agentt]

Tone, setting, story structure, POV, imagery, ...
The way you start your first chapter can also define expectations.

You don't have to foreshadow every event, but you have to set the "type" and "theme" of your story.

While all these can be manipulated in 3rd person, it can be almost impossible to do so in the first person view. The first chapter can be the classic truck gun punches you to another world, the king begs you to defeat the demon king and gives his daughter's hand in marriage.With this setting, I have noticed, no matter how much tone or foreshadowing I try to do, it all feels like the characters are just fooling around.

 

[RedHunter2296]

Also I took a look at your story and the tags say "girls love", "harem" and "slice of life". Those are tags that normally have nothing to do with life-ending drama, so the reader expectation will be that they can grow fond of characters without the fear of death.

So here is the question: did you make it clear in the first chapter(s) (whether through setting, tone, or events) that people will die and those "happy go lucky tags" aren't the entire picture?

If not, then people might drop your story and give it a bad rating, because you "shocked" them with something they didn't expect. Which also often feels like a waste of time, which in turn leads to more bad ratings.

There is also a difference between lowering scores or new los Ratings...


If you don't forshadow such stuff early (!), some of your readers will expect different things. You can also use that for a big shock effect, but either way, there will probably readers who will dislike it.

That's the same for any big story where stuff happened out of the blue.
Even successful stories like Re:Zero get their fair share of outrage when they pull such stunts...

If in fact, I tried to make it as clear as possible that the novel would mainly deal with serious military conflicts from which not everyone comes out alive. In fact, another part of the complaints was exactly putting that battle at the beginning of the novel , but I think he did a good job of establishing the main tone of the series.

 

[Sabruness]

Today I released a new chapter of my novel in which a character, who, although she was there for a very short time, was important to establish the reasons why the protagonist is the protagonist. But it seems that some of the readers who have been following my story very closely simply lowered the grade for that very reason. As always without comment on why the low grade.

My question is why downloading it when you see it is necessary for the plot to advance and not simply as a way to surprise the reader. As an exemplary case of necessary death, I would put the most famous, Kamina from Tengen Toppa, who despite how important he was and how much everyone liked him, was necessary for the series to reach so high. In the way of how not to do it, I would put the anime of Akame ga Kill, where it seems that they simply kill characters for pretending that it is something dramatic. Well, there comes a point that they even feel ridiculous.

What do you think, it is deserved to lower the note because a character, although loved, necessary to advance the plot, dies, or that it is right to have to respect the favorite characters of the readers?

checked your story and nowhere in your tags does it even hint that there will be anything particularly dark. no drama or tragedy tags, no "death of loved ones" tag or any of the other tags that would generally indicate presence of darker elements.

So, the killing of a loved character, even if it is plot necessary, dropped without any sort of warning or foreshadowing can turn off readers and lead to lower ratings. if you want to minimize the risk then you generally have to be upfront with potential readers about darker elements. you dont have to spoil things or anything but a simple "there will be dark parts in this story" or some such sentence goes a long way. It's a branch of the long-discussed issue about whether you should be upfront about things or hide them for the oomph factor and risk losing reader part way into your novel.

 

[LostLibrarian]

While all these can be manipulated in 3rd person, it can be almost impossible to do so in the first person view. The first chapter can be the classic truck gun punches you to another world. With this setting, I have noticed, no matter how much tone or foreshadowing I try to do, it all feels like the characters are just fooling around.

You can change them just as much in first person (some things even easier). What are the inner thoughts? What is the focus of the MC? What words is he using? What actions is he taking or considering?

And yeah, if you use a funny truck-kun trope then the entire chapter will feel more light-hearted and funny. Even more so if you add some stupid god. But that's your choice as author to start the first chapter like that.

You can also start your story already in the new world or in media res to set the tone. Youjo Senki would be a clear example where you set the theme and tone of the story first, before flashing back to the reincarnation.

Or you can also start on the earth but don't start with the reincarnation first, but set the character and the theme of the story there...

If in fact, I tried to make it as clear as possible that the novel would mainly deal with serious military conflicts from which not everyone comes out alive.

Then the question remains whether you succeeded or if your "setting of the theme" felt out of place because the middle part felt more like standard SoL. Is there are "general threatening feeling" to the story or are they fooling around for half the story if not in battle? Does the harem show fear of the future or go they into battle with a laugh? Do you display death around the main characters through unnamed characters before killing of someone important?

I didn't read your story, so those are question you have to answer for yourself, but based on your tags, you couldn't be much further away from "death". Standard SoL alone is more or less the complete opposite of a life or death battle, so you would have to do a ton of work to do to "prepare" the readers.



Either way, just decide on a story you want to write and make that story as clear as possible from the start. If you have a slow story, start slow. If you have a dark story, start dark. If you have a funny story, start funny. If you have an action story, start with action. Make it as clear as possible in the early chapters, so that readers know what to expect and can drop it early without bad feelings if they want something else.

That said, there will always be readers who dislike parts of your story or a specific idea. Nothing you can do about that. So when you think to yourself that you've done everything you needed to, then stop thinking about it and just write the chapter. There are a ton more readers who didn't dislike that death enough to give you a bad rating... so write for them.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

While all these can be manipulated in 3rd person, it can be almost impossible to do so in the first person view. The first chapter can be the classic truck gun punches you to another world, the king begs you to defeat the demon king and gives his daughter's hand in marriage.With this setting, I have noticed, no matter how much tone or foreshadowing I try to do, it all feels like the characters are just fooling around.

Reminds me of Dalabengba lol
Onward! To an epic quest.
Everything done in one chapter...and now...what next?

 

[Agentt]

You can change them just as much in first person (some things even easier). What are the inner thoughts? What is the focus of the MC? What words is he using? What actions is he taking or considering?

And yeah, if you use a funny truck-kun trope then the entire chapter will feel more light-hearted and funny. Even more so if you add some stupid god. But that's your choice as author to start the first chapter like that.

You can also start your story already in the new world or in media res to set the tone. Youjo Senki would be a clear example where you set the theme and tone of the story first, before flashing back to the reincarnation.

Or you can also start on the earth but don't start with the reincarnation first, but set the character and the theme of the story there...

Changing things in first person can only be done according to the mc's personality. My mc is arrogant and hence it is very hard to convey what's happening since he tries to connect everything to him.
Taking the example of Youjo Senki. Assume that the people of that world knew that Tanya is someone chosen by god and will always win no matter what. Imagine how much the setting would change then.
From a viewer's perspective, that world is now no different than a genetic isekai. No bloodshed shall occur around her.
All tactical meeting will happen offscreen and she will be just told where to go and explode.
And, of course, she would be given a mansion full of maids right from the start.
Can you think of anyway now how to convey to the viewers that this is a gore anime?
I once read a story about american civil war, written from the point of view of a 18 year old soldier. The story too had a merry mood, with the boy excited to become an adult. While me, a non American felt it was indeed a light hearted one, Any one who has read about civil war must feel really distressed.

If in fact, I tried to make it as clear as possible that the novel would mainly deal with serious military conflicts from which not everyone comes out alive. In fact, another part of the complaints was exactly putting that battle at the beginning of the novel , but I think he did a good job of establishing the main tone of the series.

Yes, I have seen that viewers really don't like us killing characters.
From what I understand, while you did a good job establishing a tone and setting from the point of mc, if the viewers demand it, you can always put an side character to explain things. Put an adult there, telling how merciless war is, how he lost his family, etc etc.

 

[A.P.R.L.]

Haha, it reminds me of when the first book of A Song of Ice and Fire came out and

Spoiler

Ned Stark died at the end

people were ENRAGED that the author killed the "main character" and called the book and saga a total failure...

Well, don't let it get to you, though I would recomend putting tags about character death because the majority of readers HATE being taken by surprise with themes like these and need to be warned of every single little thing. It's easier now with the internet than it was when only printed books were available, so use the tags and warnings in your favor. I don't think it's fair to get a low rating because of it, but that's how people usually react. Sometimes EVEN when they have been properly warned.

 

[witch_sorrowful]

Care not for the score. Kill them all. Also @RedHunter2296 link your story, mate. Let's see why this character had to be offed.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Taking the example of Youjo Senki. Assume that the people of that world knew that Tanya is someone chosen by god and will always win no matter what. Imagine how much the setting would change then.

But that is the point. YOU are the author. YOU decide, what happens and how to display it. The author of Youjo Senki wanted a certain theme and tone to his story, so he didn't begin it with "she is chosen by god". Exactly that is my point.

If you don't want your story to feel light-hearted and funny, don't use light-hearted and funny tropes in the beginning or give them a darker twist. YOU are the author. YOU decide. You want to foreshadow a gory anime: start with a gory scene.



Yeah, it'll become more and more difficult the more standard tropes you want to throw in your story. A god-chosen warrior, no war, a mansion full of maids - it'll get harder to give a dark feeling. But if you want to portray a dark world, why would you as the author start like that in the first place?

You need a mansion full of maids? Make them spies for other nobles or people who monitor your MC because he is seen as a risk in times of peace. You want to display a war in the background? Make the MC listen to two minutes on the radio about the latest loss before he turns of thinking "nothing to do with me".

If your MC is arrogant and doesn't care for stuff outside his world, you can still display that stuff and let the MC dismiss it. Then it'll still be established for the reader without the MC taking part in it.

So in short: if you want to write a story that doesn't feel like your standard light-hearted isekai - then don't write a light-hearted isekai with standard tropes. It's your work, you can do whatever you want...

 

[Agentt]

But that is the point. YOU are the author. YOU decide, what happens and how to display it. The author of Youjo Senki wanted a certain theme and tone to his story, so he didn't begin it with "she is chosen by god". Exactly that is my point.

If you don't want your story to feel light-hearted and funny, don't use light-hearted and funny tropes in the beginning or give them a darker twist. YOU are the author. YOU decide. You want to foreshadow a gory anime: start with a gory scene.



Yeah, it'll become more and more difficult the more standard tropes you want to throw in your story. A god-chosen warrior, no war, a mansion full of maids - it'll get harder to give a dark feeling. But if you want to portray a dark world, why would you as the author start like that in the first place?

You need a mansion full of maids? Make them spies for other nobles or people who monitor your MC because he is seen as a risk in times of peace. You want to display a war in the background? Make the MC listen to two minutes on the radio about the latest loss before he turns of thinking "nothing to do with me".

If your MC is arrogant and doesn't care for stuff outside his world, you can still display that stuff and let the MC dismiss it. Then it'll still be established for the reader without the MC taking part in it.

So in short: if you want to write a story that doesn't feel like your standard light-hearted isekai - then don't write a light-hearted isekai with standard tropes. It's your work, you can do whatever you want...

I want to start that setting to foreshadow, that, for some reason, the people of this world know Tanya is chosen by God. Why do they know that? Why doesn't any other country does that? Is this country has a regular supply of chosen by god heros coming up, why then is the war still continuing? Why isn't the Republican ruler of world till now. If Tanya is in fact the first person to be chosen by God, why isn't anyone questioning her authenticity? Why doesn't anyone's mother screams "why did my son had to die?"
Why is everyone around her completely loyal to a stranger?
Why does the radio always speak of other countries like they were pests?
The setting is that people of this world know something, and the smiles they portray are just a mask. Not just some people, but everyone.
The theme is that bieng X is watching them, all.
If the mc is arrogant, he may notice such things but will not question them.

 

[RedHunter2296]

Care not for the score. Kill them all. Also @RedHunter2296 link your story, mate. Let's see why this character had to be offed.

Valkyria Squadron, Here you have it, although death is a memory that the protagonist narrates, they are the last 3 chapters, those that have the title Underground

 

[LostLibrarian]

I want to start that setting to foreshadow, that, for some reason, the people of this world know Tanya is chosen by God.

Then write a fanfic that accomplishes that.
But that has nothing to do with the original point of discussion or the anime in question.

The setting in Youjo Senki is how it is because that was needed for the story the author wanted to tell. If you want to tell a different story, then use a different setting, that fits your story. Nobody forces you to go with a certain setting.
So pick your story and change your setting until it fits the story you want to tell...

But we are already way off the topic, so I'll end it here for now and go back to writing.