Difficulty of soulslike games.

[SailusGebel]

I liked that they added the Item for mohg and morgott. Wish they had done more like this, where items can influence a Boss fight, even if it would be small stuff like malikeths extra dialog.

Like BB music box and Gascoigne? Yes, stuff like that is what makes those games cool. You are rewarded for exploring the world. It's not jsut your leveling ground.

 

[Poleg]

Like BB music box and Gascoigne? Yes, stuff like that is what makes those games cool. You are rewarded for exploring the world. It's not jsut your leveling ground.

Yes like that, things like that, even small stuff can really improve a Game.

 

[APieceOfRock]

I did not play ER. Literally the first sentence in my thread.

then you can't complain. Nothing was lost since DS1 expect for maybe the annoying bonfire placement (and quick travel). That system also won't really work in DS3 because the game is more linear. DS1 bosses doesn't require "wits." There's like what, 3 bosses in the game that are somewhat special? (4 if you count the DLC dragon, but its only gimmick is that you need to find an NPC to even begin to fight it). Capra Demon, Tarus Demon (or whatever its name is), and Bed of Chaos. Two of them have the same gimmick of narrow area + plunging attack. One of them is legit the worst boss ever.

What modern souls game did is remove the bullshit. You talk about the runback to bosses. It's not fun to go through the same areas again and again every time you die to a boss.

To me, and the majority of players, dealing with a boss's attacks is more fun than running back to the boss or dealing with a slightly special arena.

Also, ER has bosses that require the so-called "wits." Take Bayle for example. He takes significantly more damage to the head while only takes minimal damage everywhere else. It's "witty" combat in essence: an attentive player will notice the difference and adjust their strategy.

Like BB music box and Gascoigne? Yes, stuff like that is what makes those games cool. You are rewarded for exploring the world. It's not jsut your leveling ground.

ER also has this with the Mohg and Margot chains, and a several special spoiler items that would negate a very powerful attacks of specific bosses. If you pay attention to the locations that the painting items show you, you can uncovering unique secret items and weapons. ER literally tests more skill than DS1, if we go by what I think you're saying.

You seeem like the kind of person that would love ER so please try it out before talking smack about modern souls games

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

then you can't complain. Nothing was lost since DS1 expect for maybe the annoying bonfire placement (and quick travel). That system also won't really work in DS3 because the game is more linear. DS1 bosses doesn't require "wits." There's like what, 3 bosses in the game that are somewhat special? (4 if you count the DLC dragon, but its only gimmick is that you need to find an NPC to even begin to fight it). Capra Demon, Tarus Demon (or whatever its name is), and Bed of Chaos. Two of them have the same gimmick of narrow area + plunging attack. One of them is legit the worst boss ever.

What modern souls game did is remove the bullshit. You talk about the runback to bosses. It's not fun to go through the same areas again and again every time you die to a boss.

To me, and the majority of players, dealing with a boss's attacks is more fun than running back to the boss or dealing with a slightly special arena.

Also, ER has bosses that require the so-called "wits." Take Bayle for example. He takes significantly more damage to the head while only takes minimal damage everywhere else. It's "witty" combat in essence: an attentive player will notice the difference and adjust their strategy.

ER also has this with the Mohg and Margot chains, and a several special spoiler items that would negate a very powerful attacks of specific bosses. If you pay attention to the locations that the painting items show you, you can uncovering unique secret items and weapons. ER literally tests more skill than DS1, if we go by what I think you're saying.

You seeem like the kind of person that would love ER so please try it out before talking smack about modern souls games

You actually put what I have been wanting to say better. I find DS1 way more frustrating than DS3 and even ER.

 

[APieceOfRock]

Regenerating health, auto-saves, checkpoints, map markers, guiding light within a game, glowing weak spots, etc.

I could go on. Everything became hand-holding. Old From games retained what it was to be thrown into an alien world and explore it. It didn't tell you jack shit, figure it out. It became easy as you discovered what works on what, why, how, etc.

People forgot how it was. Many times, you had one game, and that game lasted you a month. Or more. Meh. I'm old; I'm just salty; ignore me.

I feel the need to reply to this. Since when was regenerating health the norm outside of DS2 and Demon Souls? There's no autosaves. Checkpoints are just convenient bonfires. Map markers (there aren't many of them) and guiding light ("guiding" is used very generously here) are needed for a less frustrating OPEN WORLD experience. Glowing weak spots work well in the lore and remove the frustration of knocking out a boss several times and not knowing where to repose. This whole comment seems like misinformation to me.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

I feel the need to reply to this. Since when was regenerating health the norm outside of DS2 and Demon Souls? There's no autosaves. Checkpoints are just convenient bonfires. Map markers (there aren't many of them) and guiding light ("guiding" is used very generously here) are needed for a less frustrating OPEN WORLD experience. Glowing weak spots work well in the lore and remove the frustration of knocking out a boss several times and not knowing where to repose. This whole comment seems like misinformation to me.

Corty is not only talking about souls games, I think. Compare like Ubisoft to Fromsoft.

 

[Anon2024]

For me, the issue with souls like games was not the difficulty but the game design. I really hated most of the DS games, and I didn't like Elden Ring because of the stamina bar. Sekiro though, I love sekiro.

Anyway, those games are not difficult (except for sekiro), they're just an endurance run. Can you keep your patience up enough to roll, get in a hit or two then roll away before your stamina runs out? As such, people play Dark Souls and think they've accomplished something just because they know how to roll around. It's not an in your face thing like Sekiro, or even the older Devil May Cry 3 games on DMD mode where enemies will start healing if you don't do enough damage to them to kill them in a specific time frame.

So, I like to say Dark Souls isn't 'difficulty' but 'endurance' and those who get a sense of accomplishment should be like running a marathon rather than hitting the last goal to win a game type deal.

 

[APieceOfRock]

Corty is not only talking about souls games, I think. Compare like Ubisoft to Fromsoft.

oh, I definite get that vibe, but they put "old from games" in their second sentence. I think it's also about souls.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

oh, I definite get that vibe, but they put "old from games" in their second sentence. I think it's also about souls.

Oh yeah. I am just retarded.

 

[SailusGebel]

Huh...

I remember when I first started my Dark Souls journey was with Dark Souls 2: Scholar of the First Sin (I know a lot of you hate this game and that's fine. You do you and I do me.)

I spent 2 hours on fighting the first boss, The Last Giant and cursed the game for being too hard but i learned how the game worked and how the bosses fight. I loved it soon after. I even created 2 characters who are lvl 151 Battle Mage (STR and INT Build) and a lvl 256 Warrior (Pure STR build). I also spent 2 months on grinding the heck on collecting boss souls that I had like 20+ of them.

Now, the soulsborne franchise has always been a test of endurance, skill, timing and luck. The bosses are meant to be a boss rush. They want you to DIE constantly and punish you for even the slightest mistake. Imo, this feature is what makes those games fun. The constant struggle, the masochistic tendency to constantly play the game to defeat the boss and the feeling of bliss when you finally clap that mf after a shit ton of deaths is so satisfying. I mean WHY would they create something that you can speedrun in 1 or 2 days when the game is marketed for being a difficult game to play?

I know some of you won't agree with this and that's fine. You have your own opinion and i have mine.

It's understandable why you have this opinion, since you started with DS2.

then you can't complain. Nothing was lost since DS1 expect for maybe the annoying bonfire (and quick travel) system. That system also won't really work in DS3 because the game is more linear. DS1 bosses doesn't require "wits." There's like what, 3 bosses in the game that are somewhat special? (4 if you count the DLC dragon, but its only gimmick is that you need to find an NPC to even begin to find it). Capra Demon, Tarus Demon (or whatever its name is), and Bed of Chaos. Two of them have the same gimmick of narrow area + plunging attack. One of them is legit the worst boss ever.

What modern souls game did is remove the bullshit. You talk about the runback to bosses. It's not fun to go through the same areas again and again every time you die to a boss.

To me, and the majority of players, dealing with a boss's attacks is more fun than running back to the boss or dealing with a slightly special arena.

Iron Golem, Gaping dragon with the wizard that buffs him, Seath the Scaleless and his crystal, Crossbreed Priscilla and her invisibility, Nito with respawning skelly bois unless you have holy weapon, Manus and his pendant. I can't see how all of those ideas are bullshit. Are they no more than a gimmick at that state? Probably are. But why cut them out?

You can develop those ideas. You know? Instead of remaking Ceaseless Discharge into Ancient Wyvern, why not improve the idea? Of course everyone will shit on Ancient Wyvern, cause all you did was adding a couple of enemies. That is not evloving. But you know what? They've already did the same thing with what you hold in high regard, evading attacks. They added Old Dragonslayer, and it is a shit boss. You know why? Cause he wasn't changed at all. And it is what happened with Ceaseless Discharge's concept. If all you do to a boss' concept is add a couple of enemies, everyone will shit on you. Same as reusing old bosses.

Also, ER has bosses that require the so-called "wits." Take Bayle for example. He takes significantly more damage to the head while only takes minimal damage everywhere else. It's "witty" combat in essence: an attentive player will notice the difference and adjust their strategy.

It is not, and it is Midir.

 

[Anon2024]

Souls Games - High endurance, low skill.
DMC 3 on DMD mode - High skill, moderate endurance.
Sekiro - High Skill, High endurance.

 

[APieceOfRock]

For me, the issue with souls like games was not the difficulty but the game design. I really hated most of the DS games, and I didn't like Elden Ring because of the stamina bar. Sekiro though, I love sekiro.

Anyway, those games are not difficult (except for sekiro), they're just an endurance run. Can you keep your patience up enough to roll, get in a hit or two then roll away before your stamina runs out? As such, people play Dark Souls and think they've accomplished something just because they know how to roll around. It's not an in your face thing like Sekiro, or even the older Devil May Cry 3 games on DMD mode where enemies will start healing if you don't do enough damage to them to kill them in a specific time frame.

So, I like to say Dark Souls isn't 'difficulty' but 'endurance' and those who get a sense of accomplishment should be like running a marathon rather than hitting the last goal to win a game type deal.

I too love Sekiro, but you shouldn't discredit souls game like that. Getting hit there is VERY easy, and you do have a resource other than stamina and health to take care of: Estus/healing. The longer you go, the more mistake you will make. The player actually have the agency to choose whether to take it slow and possibly die anyways or be aggressive (and maybe die a little bit sooner).

Sekiro combat (and now Lies of P) is my favorite, but souls games aren't just endurance runs. If they are endurance runs, the same can also be said for Sekiro. Like how the bosses there can force you to parry while they do their combos, souls bosses force you to roll.

 

[SailusGebel]

For me, the issue with souls like games was not the difficulty but the game design. I really hated most of the DS games, and I didn't like Elden Ring because of the stamina bar. Sekiro though, I love sekiro.

Anyway, those games are not difficult (except for sekiro), they're just an endurance run. Can you keep your patience up enough to roll, get in a hit or two then roll away before your stamina runs out? As such, people play Dark Souls and think they've accomplished something just because they know how to roll around. It's not an in your face thing like Sekiro, or even the older Devil May Cry 3 games on DMD mode where enemies will start healing if you don't do enough damage to them to kill them in a specific time frame.

So, I like to say Dark Souls isn't 'difficulty' but 'endurance' and those who get a sense of accomplishment should be like running a marathon rather than hitting the last goal to win a game type deal.

I've addressed it in the beginning.

The thing is, there were, are, and will be games harder than Dark Souls. It's honestly not as hard. Even back then it was not as hard. It becomes hard if you compare DS 1 to, let's say Skyrim or Gears 3.

 

[Anon2024]

I too love Sekiro, but you shouldn't discredit souls game like that. Getting hit there is VERY easy, and you do have a resource other than stamina and health to take care of: Estus/healing. The longer you go, the more mistake you will make. The player actually have the agency to choose whether to take it slow and possibly die anyways or be aggressive (and maybe die a little bit sooner).

Sekiro combat (and now Lies of P) is my favorite, but souls games aren't just endurance runs. If they are endurance runs, the same can also be said for Sekiro. Like how the bosses there can force you to parry while they do their combos, souls bosses force you to roll.

The difference between Souls games and Sekiro is that in souls games, you basically have to run around. You move slow, and the bosses also move slow except when in their combos.

In Sekiro, you have to get in the boss's face, know the timing and combos and mistakes etc.
You need good reflexes for sekiro, you don't really need them for Souls like games, because of how slow they are, and also, the stamina bar means you can beat any boss as long as you're patient.

I call it fake difficulty because I don't find endurance to be difficulty, or fun for that matter.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

The difference between Souls games and Sekiro is that in souls games, you basically have to run around. You move slow, and the bosses also move slow except when in their combos.

In Sekiro, you have to get in the boss's face, know the timing and combos and mistakes etc.
You need good reflexes for sekiro, you don't really need them for Souls like games, because of how slow they are, and also, the stamina bar means you can beat any boss as long as you're patient.

I call it fake difficulty because I don't find endurance to be difficulty, or fun for that matter.

Slow? Did you play ER?

 

[APieceOfRock]

Iron Golem, Gaping dragon with the wizard that buffs him, Seath the Scaleless and his crystal, Crossbreed Priscilla and her invisibility, Nito with respawning skelly bois unless you have holy weapon, Manus and his pendant. I can't see how all of those ideas are bullshit. Are they no more than a gimmick at that state? Probably are. But why cut them out?

It is not, and it is Midir.

Iron golem is narrow arena + death box. Seath, I can understand. He's really unique. But what you get with Priscilla, you get better with Sister Friede. Respawning enemies like Nito isn't anything strange in modern games like ER and DS3. Manus (and his pendant) is literally that one tear in ER that nullifies Nihil. My point is that if DS1 has anything good, modern souls game do it better. Except for the sense of wonder, I guess. (even then, ER Beats it by a long shot.)

And yes, it is Midir, but it's also Bayle.

 

[Corty]

I feel the need to reply to this. Since when was regenerating health the norm outside of DS2 and Demon Souls? There's no autosaves. Checkpoints are just convenient bonfires. Map markers (there aren't many of them) and guiding light ("guiding" is used very generously here) are needed for a less frustrating OPEN WORLD experience. Glowing weak spots work well in the lore and remove the frustration of knocking out a boss several times and not knowing where to repose. This whole comment seems like misinformation to me.

I wasn’t talking about Souls games at first.

I was saying how old games were “difficult” and not mechanically tailored to appeal to the masses. How Souls went back to that basic. Where the game’s mechanism wasn’t streamlined or dumbed down.

The souls game brought back the same, go, figure it out style. That was my main point.

 

[DannyTheDaikon]

For me, the issue with souls like games was not the difficulty but the game design. I really hated most of the DS games, and I didn't like Elden Ring because of the stamina bar. Sekiro though, I love sekiro.

Anyway, those games are not difficult (except for sekiro), they're just an endurance run. Can you keep your patience up enough to roll, get in a hit or two then roll away before your stamina runs out? As such, people play Dark Souls and think they've accomplished something just because they know how to roll around. It's not an in your face thing like Sekiro, or even the older Devil May Cry 3 games on DMD mode where enemies will start healing if you don't do enough damage to them to kill them in a specific time frame.

So, I like to say Dark Souls isn't 'difficulty' but 'endurance' and those who get a sense of accomplishment should be like running a marathon rather than hitting the last goal to win a game type deal.

Sekiro isn't difficult either. All you need to waltz through the game is to button mash.

 

[Anon2024]

Slow? Did you play ER?

Yes.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

Yes.

You beat the game?