Any tips regarding creating a system

[Assurbanipal_II]

Wrong.

All those skills could easily be detailed and seamlessly integrated into the story without any systems and made into spells and learnable feats, giving even deeper meaning to them and giving the characters something to work for, further establishing their mindset and characteristics, and giving them growth. What you describe here is the lazy way that 90% of the time ends in bloated characters with nine gajillion skills that the author himself forgets he gave the character and never got used. It's just there for word vomit.



Doubt.

Most of the time it boils down to tables and numbers that most readers usually skip because they want to read a story and not an Excel spreadsheet. Of course, there are those who will then comment on all the calculations and tell why they're wrong or not, turning them into anything but the plot.



This just proves my point. That can be achieved without any system, and the story wouldn't change a bit I don't know about others, but I find it more engaging, valid, and simply better if a character grows stronger because of their own action instead of because the virtual number goes high.

Death to systems! Death to useless MCs!

 

[Premier]

I agree with Corty, thus I have one question. I don't think it's a rude thing to ask. Can you give me an example? It would be even better if you can provide multiple examples, but I understand that you might not want spend so much time on a pointless internet argument.

I think you could maybe fully remove the System from

The Reincarnation of Alysara

After being reincarnated as a busty fox-like race in a fantasy world filled with magic and mysteries Alysara finds herself blinded after getting a cursed skill. Now she must train her ability to sense the mana around her and discover what mana and magic really is to see. There is...

www.scribblehub.com

but at that point you're just relabelling everything System related "Magic"

Same for

Forgotten

Aperio had been a slave for as long as she could remember. She toiled away in the palace of her masters, her body forced to obey, her mind no longer caring that she did. Her only joy was the small inconveniences an error in her work could bring, the resulting...

www.scribblehub.com

In fact, for that one, I'd say it's even more vital to the whole thing.

This is because both stories are about learning how the system works. Not in a "So I can abuse it" way, but a literal research and investigation way.

They also work because they both kind of read like debugging old code. It being inefficient and a little obtuse is the point, if it was neat and orderly it wouldn't be a very long story.

 

[melchi]

This is the stats, here you can see I changed the exp system to the percentage system and reduced the number of key stats to keep a tab on them.

Inside lore is these key stats are a combination of many other stats for example (Constituation= Vitality +Endurance +Stamina)

My character is a monster and I have trouble with is level-up and rewarding part.

-Should I just make him level up only for battle victories or should other dangerous but miscellaneous activities for example 'Climbing a mountain or crossing a river' be rewarded.

If should what should be the reward? Direct addition to stats or something else


[Level: 4 (Progress towards next level: 20%)


(6 stats points)


Strength: 12


Perception: 15


Agility: 17


Constitution: 11


Charisma: 10


Wisdom:9


Perks-

Claws: level 1

Scales: level 1

Mouth: level 1

Wings: level 0

Eyes: Level 2 ]

Feedback: Perks is too detailed. Having tables for limbs is just going to lead to word count bloat IMO.

The KISS principle still applies in system stories. If it isn't used, toss it. It it can be done in a simpler way that way is better.

All those perks can be reduced and changed to [Body: level 1]

Perception is already there so having eyes + perception is redundant also IMO. I suggest deleting it.

If the exp is a percentage system then I'd suggest switching it to an achievement system. 1% to next level makes it seem like each level requires the same amount of exp per level. It will make that seem like word count bloat. Defeating 10 level 5 monsters is more concrete. Getting 2000 exp is concrete too, but which is more meaningful to a reader?

A lot of system novels have skills and level be different things. Eg. Climbing a mountain could increase climbing skills. But it the next level needs battle victories that is something entirely separate.

As for stats they need to mean something.

Is 1 str weak? Is 10 str strong? If these things are never explained they are in effect meaningless. If it is just a number on a table to a reader... it is bloat.

Bloat is bad, the goal for having a system is to increase clarity. If it is not accomplishing then then it is hurting your story.

 

[Voidiris]

I think you could maybe fully remove the System from

The Reincarnation of Alysara

After being reincarnated as a busty fox-like race in a fantasy world filled with magic and mysteries Alysara finds herself blinded after getting a cursed skill. Now she must train her ability to sense the mana around her and discover what mana and magic really is to see. There is...

www.scribblehub.com

but at that point you're just relabelling everything System related "Magic"

Same for

Forgotten

Aperio had been a slave for as long as she could remember. She toiled away in the palace of her masters, her body forced to obey, her mind no longer caring that she did. Her only joy was the small inconveniences an error in her work could bring, the resulting...

www.scribblehub.com

In fact, for that one, I'd say it's even more vital to the whole thing.

This is because both stories are about learning how the system works. Not in a "So I can abuse it" way, but a literal research and investigation way.

I think your example shows the point I wanted to make.
Systems are just another kind of magic system that is generally more technical and informational than most magic system.
You could in most System cut out the screens, lvl (the visual part) and statuses and just let the characters guess the informations with testing or something similar and you got a normal magic system.
You could turn other magic system in system by changing some details, adding statuses, lvl's and screens.
It's honestly surprising to me how similar systems are to magic systems (because they are one) and still people talk about them as they are something completely different.

 

[Premier]

I think your example shows the point I wanted to make.
Systems are just another kind of magic system that is generally more technical and informational than most magic system.
You could in most System cut out the screens, lvl (the visual part) and statuses and just let the characters guess the informations with testing or something similar and you got a normal magic system.
You could turn other magic system in system by changing some details, adding statuses, lvl's and screens.
It's honestly surprising to me how similar systems are to magic systems (because they are one) and still people talk about them as they are something completely different.

I'd say they're more Superpowers than Magic, as magic usually has defined rules about how it can be practiced, while in Systems you just do shit without any real explanation as to how it's all working.

My two examples are probably the better thought out ones, where extra complexity actually makes sense (Sometimes)

Kinda ironic that the more "Technical" system usually makes less sense.

 

[Voidiris]

I'd say they're more Superpowers than Magic, as magic usually has defined rules about how it can be practiced, while in Systems you just do shit without any real explanation as to how it's all working.

My two examples are probably the better thought out ones, where extra complexity actually makes sense (Sometimes)

Kinda ironic that the more "Technical" system usually makes less sense.

The more technical something is the more thought it needs to make sense and function, so it's quite unsurprising that they make less sense.
In soft magic systems there is no real explanation why things happen and even in most hard magic systems you can ask why it functions as it does, such discussion are useless because they would just lead to the question why the universe/God exists. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
Aren't Systems all about restricting how you can use them, they are most of the time limiting in what you can do with the abilities you gain, I definitely disagree about th superhero thing, most superhero world have someform of magic system even if only some use it.

 

[Premier]

The more technical something is the more thought it needs to make sense and function, so it's quite unsurprising that they make less sense.
In soft magic systems there is no real explanation why things happen and even in most hard magic systems you can ask why it functions as it does, such discussion are useless because they would just lead to the question why the universe/God exists. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
Aren't Systems all about restricting how you can use them, they are most of the time limiting in what you can do with the abilities you gain, I definitely disagree about th superhero thing, most superhero world have someform of magic system even if only some use it.

Soft Magic isn't really what I was thinking about.

Most Magic has an underpinning to how it works. You have to sacrifice for it, say the right words, and do the motions to weave the elements, etc, etc. Everyone is reading off the same spellbook or dipping into the same mana well. Magic nearly always requires learning, or creativity to use.

Most Systems and Superpowers just work that way because it works that way. There's no real shared base for why a power that makes you harder to hurt co-exists along with ones that let you throw fire. You're not drawing on anything, or observing any rules. You just have a power that says you can Resist 50% bludgeoning and it works, no training or effort required. That's Superpowers, not Magic.

 

[Voidiris]

Soft Magic isn't really what I was thinking about.

Most Magic has an underpinning to how it works. You have to sacrifice for it, say the right words, and do the motions to weave the elements, etc, etc. Everyone is reading off the same spellbook or dipping into the same mana well. Magic nearly always requires learning, or creativity to use.

Most Systems and Superpowers just work that way because it works that way. There's no real shared base for why a power that makes you harder to hurt co-exists along with ones that let you throw fire. You're not drawing on anything, or observing any rules. You just have a power that says you can Resist 50% bludgeoning and it works, no training or effort required. That's Superpowers, not Magic.

Well do you know DragonBall? That's a magic system, no it's not I mislabeled power system the entire time as magic system, my bad. Superhero stories too have a power system, Systems are a more gamelike and informational power system. You talk about systems like they are a power system when they are more a kind of power system, System have a spectrum and there are probably Systems that are completely like Superheroe stories where characters just get the power like Side Note, thn there are the Systems that include the things you said about magic.

 

[Premier]

I mean yeah I’m just taking the average “I level up and have a new ability” thing. Nothing is joined up, it doesn’t really make any sense why these things are related.

 

[Lloyd]

The only time I wrote a system I made it first, because I had a good idea for a system and then came up with the story parts. So just have a vision of what you want to do.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

This bird will bore you out because it will ask you: which kind of system are you asking about? From this bird's understanding, in novels, systems are usually either: a) a manner of classifying, symbolizing, or schematizing; or/and b) a group of devices or artificial objects or an organization forming a network especially for distributing something or serving a common purpose -> a computer system, which set rules for your universe to follow (awarding skills to people who are under its rules).

Which begs the question: if you want to write a "system", which one do you want to write? Just a spreadsheet of stats so you can explain how things are working for your readers, or do you want to write a System which your characters have to follow to achieve power? These are different things in the end, but they're put under the same tag, unfortunately.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Make it achievement-based, if you really have to. Always killing stuff is boring, so let your characters do weird stuff to get their brrr numbers.

Or skill-based. Kinda like a tech-tree in RTS. Increase walking to running to sprinting to teleporting cross-tree-combining into space magic or some other nonsense. The more idiotic and needlessly complex the better for the readers

Or just create a solid power and/or magic system without a system system. A system is really only needed if you want to have a system in it.

 

[ReadLight]

Many of you are veterans in this and probably came across many stories with the system, even written one.

Do you have any tips regarding it, how it should be potrayed, the ExP system or the achievement part

Not an expert, here's my 2 cents.



Systems is a double edged sword. Use it well, and it moves the plot, use it badly, and the story goes bad.



Systems are like deus ex machina, but stretched out. MC encounters a problem, MC engage in conflictd, MC solves problem and grows as a person.

If the system resolves the conflict, or hijack characters motivations, I think that'd do bad for the story.



If you were thinking more about a system with stats, more close to RPG, you know, Atk, Def, HP, etc. Or just the ones from Solo Leveling, limit the stats to only what's important for the story.



For example, if no one needs to know about some obscure stats like "avoidant" or "Magic Def", just don't include them. Too many numbers isn't gonna make the readers more engaged, and I think it's a pain in the but to write and keep track off.



Next, decide whether you want the system to be a character or just a tool. Character means personifying it, give it a name, give it dialogues, give it a personality, may be even a body. However treat it then as you would any other characters: know their purpose, and don't just make them some extra some dude who does nothing for the plot.



If it is a tool, then try to not focus on it too much. Like I said, no one likes to crunch numbers when reading unless they are REALLY REALLY invested in your story.



In that case, know that your system will serve as convenient explanation generator.



How does the MC has this much money? System.



How could the MC have this many powers?

System.



Just try not to overly rely on Systems to move the plot (I'd recommend not to do it at all), or else the story will be made meaningless as would one that's filled with deus ex machina.

As for ExP, don't let it dissolve the conflict, but rather serve as means for the character to grow.

MC fights big boss, defeats big boss, gain exp, level up: good.

MC fights big boss, somehow gets exp, reversing the tide and defeats big boss when he otherwise wouldn't be able to: bad.

For achievement systems, I'm not sure what you are referring to, and haven't really read much of this kind. I'm assuming achievements will grant characters rewards out of thin air or something, so just, again, try not to let it dissolve conflicts, and try not to let it hijack characters motivations.

Open to discussion.

This just proves my point. That can be achieved without any system, and the story wouldn't change a bit I don't know about others, but I find it more engaging, valid, and simply better if a character grows stronger because of their own action instead of because the virtual number goes high

This