Any tips regarding creating a system

[GlassRose]

I like to give the benefit of the doubt and try to remain optimistic. Just like how none of the toilet scrubbing stuff says they kill 100% of bacteria. Same reasoning.


Exactly. And I didn't read a story with a system in it that couldn't work without one. Even in the best one I have read, Second Coming of Gluttony, the system was mostly useless as all the functions it provided could be easily replaced (skill, curse, magic, tech, take your pick) and wouldn't affect the story at all.

The only setting where any system makes sense from a story perspective is when the character gets thrown into a game. Yeah, sure, at least there is an explanation for why it's there. It started this whole trend anyway. But shoehorning systems into all kinds of stories because it is the new shiny thing everyone does is unnecessary and a detriment to the story, and no facepalming emoji can change my opinion about it.

Disinfectants don't say they kill 100%. They say 99.9% or whatever specific decimal, and that data has actually been collected, not pulled out of an ass.

Just because you have not read a system story could not have had the system easily replaced doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means your scope is limited. Considering how many examples I've brought up and how you've ignored them all, I can only presume that you're simply stubborn and close minded on this matter.

And I agree that systems are overused, and that they don't need to be in everything. But you say that they belong in nothing, and that is fundamentally incorrect, and shortsighted, and I really can't stand how reductive you are.

 

[Indicterra]

'

Personally, I prefer a more, milestone and special-power based system. Where levels serve as, essentially, progress bars to the next milestone, which either unlocks new abilities, or expands old ones, letting them be applied in new ways, and stats just serve as the prerequisite to being able to face tough enemies, but not the source of the characters power. That kind of progression is far more interesting than just, 'Iz slightly better at swinging sword, now' 'Has 50 strength now!',

This is exactly what I want but I don't know how. The more I try to make it similar to the former the more it becomes later

I don't know have reference material, any advice on how to achieve it

 

[Corty]

Those who deal in absolutes are just-

Are good at quoting star wars.

At least make it consistent. That's why I said 90% because there could be good stories with systems there, where they are essential to the plot.

Just because you have not read a system story could not have had the system easily replaced doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means your scope is limited. Considering how many examples I've brought up and how you've ignored them all, I can only presume that your simply stubborn and close minded on this matter.

None came my way yet though, not even from your list because I could easily come up with methods that would replace the system and keeping the story intact with the same plot.

At least call me a sith lord properly, I am not that soft to feel hurt from an online debate.

 

[SailusGebel]

Just because you have not read a system story could not have had the system easily replaced doesn't mean they don't exist,

I agree with Corty, thus I have one question. I don't think it's a rude thing to ask. Can you give me an example? It would be even better if you can provide multiple examples, but I understand that you might not want spend so much time on a pointless internet argument.

 

[Indicterra]

Are good at quoting star wars.

At least make it consistent. That's why I said 90% because there could be good stories with systems there, where they are essential to the plot.


None came my way yet though, not even from your list because I could easily come up with methods that would replace the system and keep the story intact with the same plot.

At least call me a sith lord properly, I am not that soft to feel hurt from an online debate.

Hmmm I have doubt

How would you do 'a getting a skill' when you're on moments getting away from killed?

Using the skill can save you and if it is a system you can justify the reason for getting the skill and your sudden proficiency in it.

But if the system is there how will u justify it's existence and your knowledge about it

 

[Cipiteca396]

'This is exactly what I want but I don't know how. The more I try to make it similar to the former the more it becomes later

I don't know have reference material, any advice on how to achieve it

For a milestone system, the first example that comes to mind is The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. You have a number of skills; using those skills levels them up, granting minor boosts to the skills performance; at certain levels (5, 25, 50, 75, 100), you gain a special ability related to the skill. For example, a lunge attack that causes paralysis on a hit.

DnD (and presumably every story based on DnD) uses a similar system. New abilities, spells, and feats are earned at certain level milestones or points in plot progression.

Basically, if you want to use this system, you'll need to focus on two things. The number of tools in your characters' kit, and the quality of those tools.
A wizard can cast fireball. As he levels up, he can either learn other spells, or increase the utility of his fireballs (bigger AoE, different damage type, etc.) In the end, both options are meant to give you more options to make interesting fights instead of, 'I do the same thing, but harder now'.

At least call me a sith lord properly, I am not that soft to feel hurt from an online debate.

You're horribly off-topic. This thread is about how to write systems. If you aren't going to help, stop.

Hmmm I have doubt

How would you do 'a getting a skill' when you're on moments getting away from killed?

Using the skill can save you and if it is a system you can justify the reason for getting the skill and your sudden proficiency in it.

But if the system is there how will u justify it's existence and your knowledge about it

Tbh, this is called Deus Ex Machina. Typically it's justified by the Power of Friendship, or a Sudden Epiphany, or What Was Inside All Along.

 

[MouseDestruction]

I like a status page, but I never really see the point in putting numbers on it. Everyone just ends up being described as strong or intelligent or whatever. If you were really desperate I would say use A-F rank rather than numbers.
Levels and experience are reasonably irrelevant too, when you can just use class evolutions or adventure rank or some other relevant thing.
But it is nice to see someone's skills/spells in a single place and have some indication of their power levels vs others.

I never really see "And my 5 extra strength over the enemy was what broke through" its more like "And I overpowered them cause strong raaa"

 

[Corty]

Using the skill can save you and if it is a system you can justify the reason for getting the skill and your sudden proficiency in it.

But if the system is there how will u justify it's existence and your knowledge about it

That is why I would not go with a system.

You could make the MC simply awaken his specialty without the need for stats and a system to be included. You could make him have sharper instincts. I would need more info on what the situation is, but imagine it as a bullet time. Make him observe the world in a much slower perception where he can plan, decide what to do next, and enact that plan that gives him the chance to survive/escape.

If you want a system, you could easily introduce this as some kind of enhanced self-preservation skill, passive or active, that activates when his life is in danger, and he can, for a limited time frame, gain superhuman abilities, be it strength, speed, etc. whatever -if you go with a system- can exploit.

That is of course only one option, there are hundred others.

You're horribly off-topic. This thread is about how to write systems. If you aren't going to help, stop.

Is this better?

 

[GlassRose]

I agree with Corty, thus I have one question. I don't think it's a rude thing to ask. Can you give me an example? It would be even better if you can provide multiple examples, but I understand that you might not want spend so much time on a pointless internet argument.

I already have. Saintess Summons Skeletons would be basically impossible to function in the way that it does without a system. Using keywords taken from the skills of two classes, chopped up, to make new skills based off the mashed-together name, really doesn't work without a system.

The Forerunner Initiative is a good one too. I suppose if you had to you could remove the system from that one, but you would lose something essential to the foundation of the Creator's and how they influence and control integrated space.

Power Initialization is a good power-building one (not without its flaws story/character-wise, but that's unrelated to the system). While the system isn't necessarily essential, it provides just enough structure to make the magic system easily understood and kept track of by the reader without getting bogged down in unnecessary numbers.

Ultimately, just because you can make something work without a system doesn't mean that's the best way to actualize that idea. Just because systems are an overused trope, doesn't mean they are inherently bad. The existence of a system in a story may be contrived, that is certainly a negative point, but they are still just a fun idea to explore.

That is why I would not go with a system.

You could make the MC simply awaken his specialty without the need for stats and a system to be included. You could make him have sharper instincts. I would need more info on what the situation is, but imagine it as a bullet time. Make him observe the world in a much slower perception where he can plan, decide what to do next, and enact that plan that gives him the chance to survive/escape.

If you want a system, you could easily introduce this as some kind of enhanced self-preservation skill, passive or active, that activates when his life is in danger, and he can, for a limited time frame, gain superhuman abilities, be it strength, speed, etc. whatever -if you go with a system- can exploit.

That is of course only one option, there are hundred others.



Is this better?

Part of what makes systems special (some versions, anyway) is the idea that anyone can use them to become strong, it doesn't require your character to have some kind of inborn special ability, better instincts, fitness, magical characteristic. They appeal to people because people like honest work being rewarded. The idea that anyone can make it if they earn it.

 

[SailusGebel]

I already have.

Sorry, I missed it. Will check them out, but it will take a long time.

Ultimately, just because you can make something work without a system doesn't mean that's the best way to actualize that idea. Just because systems are an overused trope, doesn't mean they are inherently bad. The existence of a system in a story may be contrived, that is certainly a negative point, but they are still just a fun idea to explore.

Unlike Corty I am a sith, so I can say the following without any repercussions. Everything will be better without system. It's not about how you can make something work without a system. System is a crutch. You can make everything better without a system.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Unlike Corty I am a sith, so I can say the following without any repercussions. Everything will be better without system. It's not about how you can make something work without a system. System is a crutch. You can make everything better without a system.

bruh

 

[SailusGebel]

bruh

Sorry.

 

[GlassRose]

Sorry, I missed it. Will check them out, but it will take a long time.

Unlike Corty I am a sith, so I can say the following without any repercussions. Everything will be better without system. It's not about how you can make something work without a system. System is a crutch. You can make everything better without a system.

If you have a lame leg, a crutch is damn useful. And if you want to, messing around with some crutches can be fun. That's all that really matters.

Not that I submit! If the basis of your story is to explore the implications or a certain facet of systems, or certain permutation, because the idea is interesting, taking away the system would not make it better!

 

[Voidiris]

Many of you are veterans in this and probably came across many stories with the system, even written one.

Do you have any tips regarding it, how it should be potrayed, the ExP system or the achievement part

Make a system that really intersacts with the world like it's part of the world, show how the system has formed the society and the world. A system that fits with the tone of the story and the messages you want to spread with the story. It shouldn't feel like it's a tag on to the world except if it's in the story a tag on for some reason.

Part of what makes systems special (some versions, anyway) is the idea that anyone can use them to become strong, it doesn't require your character to have some kind of inborn special ability, better instincts, fitness, magical characteristic. They appeal to people because people like honest work being rewarded. The idea that anyone can make it if they earn it.

Systems are at the end of the day just another kind of magic system that has gained fame over the last years, every magic system functions different, every magic system functions different, everything has down and upsides, many of the for systems were shown in this thread.
What you said isn't true for most systems I have seen, there are a lot of special classes, skills, traits and inheritances in systems, most systems aren't fair. The world itself isn't fair because not everyone has the same amount of time or money or inheritance. In this world there is too a chance that everyone could get successful.

 

[SailusGebel]

If you have a lame leg, a crutch is damn useful.

Using it while both leg are healthy is detrimental.

And if you want to, messing around with some crutches can be fun. That's all that really matters.

You can do whatever you want. I agree with it. If you think it's fun, you can do it.

However, a person asked the question on a public forum. People who think system aren't good, has the right to try and dissuade the person from making a system. I think it's detrimental, so I can advise against doing it, in my eyes I am helping OP. At the same time, you can argue with me or Corty, and say where and why we are wrong, and help the person directly.

Not that I submit! If the basis of your story is to explore the implications or a certain facet of systems, or certain permutation, because the idea is interesting, taking away the system would not make it better!

Still think you don't need a system. What are all those implications? What I mean with this question is, what are the themes? Example. Let's say a person is fighting against their own system. Can this be considered an exploration of a certain facet? If it can, isn't it simply a fight against the God, or higher being?

 

[GlassRose]

However, a person asked the question on a public forum. People who think system aren't good, has the right to try and dissuade the person from making a system. I think it's detrimental, so I can advise against doing it, in my eyes I am helping OP. At the same time, you can argue with me or Corty, and say where and why we are wrong, and help the person directly.

Systems are fun. It is not useful to tell the poster who wanted advice on how to build a system, because they decided they wanted to build a system for their story for fun, to just not.

 

[SailusGebel]

Systems are fun. It is not useful to tell the poster who wanted advice on how to build a system, because they decided they wanted to build a system for their story for fun, to just not.

Not-systems are also fun. I think I've explained my point well enough, so I won't repeat myself.

 

[GlassRose]

Not-systems are also fun. I think I've explained my point well enough, so I won't repeat myself.

But also not what the poster was asking for.

 

[QuercusMalus]

Many of you are veterans in this and probably came across many stories with the system, even written one.

Do you have any tips regarding it, how it should be potrayed, the ExP system or the achievement part

Use sparingly. You need to balance explanation without breaking immersion. When the character(s) appear give a two sentence class summary, then leave it at that.
So I would default to having it show up as little as possible. Only when something changes, like a status, or level up. Don't spell out everything.
I have one story where a portion is in game(kinda Phillip K Dick-esque VR 'hunting' game where if your character dies, you die), but I try to limit the 'game' aspects to the system announcements and similiar skill achievements. Which is relevant as one of the system announcements triggers all the remaining players going after him.

 

[BouncyCactus]

System ain't my fav of a trope, given that they are often inconsistent. Just keep the progression consistent, however you do it. Don't just have a sudden Deus Ex Machina level-up or power-up, but at least give a good reason for it, and not just because the plot dictated it. The Invisible Hand of the Author is not very Invisible in most systems, and that can turn the reader away real' fast.