Chapter Draft Feedback - Fight Scene

[J_Chemist]

Hello all,

I'm currently stuck in a bit of a quicksand pit and I'm uncertain of how I want to get out of this little mess. You see, I've written my next chapter for my story and the entire chapter is just one big fight scene. The fight scene includes a lot of power scaling bouncing between the two parties, a steady build up of damage on them both, some back and forth exchanges, and then the finality of the fight itself when our MC gets pissed and decides he's had enough.

The issue I'm facing is a bit of an odd one. See, I typically have fight scenes that are shorter and not entire chapters worth at this length. On top of that, there's clear finality and the enemy gets merc'd. Typically my MC is able to achieve the upper hand and overcome the enemy and kill them. But, here I don't want that. I want to show a sort of equal footing between the two parties and then display my MC just barely coming out on top, as all individuals involved will inevitably survive.

With that being said, both parties don't take a lot of sustained damage. In actual combat, heavy damage means death and you getting knocked off. In fighting where odds are even, there's typically small bits of damage here and there until one side outwits the other. Then it's all downhill from there.

So, what I'm requesting is some feedback on the chapter. No, I'm not here for grammar, spell checking, or any feedback on my writing style. I'm here to see what people think of the combat itself.

• The power scaling/balancing between the Twins vs. The MC.
• The choreography and the descriptions of the fighting itself. Does it click for you? Are you able to visualize what's happening?
• As they fight, does it realistically make sense?
• Then, is it fulfilling as combat progresses? Is there enough action/movement throughout that's fun and entertaining, or do you think it needs more?
• As for the climax. It's meant to be swift and definitive, but is it too sharp? Does it cut off too soon, or do you think there should be more to it before the actual finishing blow?

If you're interested in looking into this, here is a link to the Chapter. Feel free to read it, review it, and send me your thoughts.

Also, for reference, you don't need a whole lot of backstory for this. I'm looking for feedback on the fighting itself. If you do want the backstory, feel free to read my book. The second novel isn't on SH yet, though, so you'll have to DM me for that.

Thanks!

[Chapter 15 Draft]

Edit: After listening to the feedback by persons below, I've created a document with a second, updated version of the chapter. I'll be working on this version of the chapter and will be making updates/changes to it as feedback is provided. I would like those interested to continue to provide feedback on the OG Document above, as I'll be applying the fixes to the new document and I can also utilize said feedback in the future. However, since it's still a WIP, you're also welcome to provide feedback on the updated document should you choose to do so but it is not required.

Consider it a peek to see how your feedback is being applied in real time? I guess that's kinda cool?

[Chapter 15 Draft, v2]

 

[SailusGebel]

Bruh, it's 13 pages long.

 

[melchi]

The first paragraph is a bit confusing.

Twins? Define please.
The fighter? Is that one of the twins?

A torch burned in his left hand, lighting the way as he delved into the dark hole

Parallel prose detected >_<

 

[J_Chemist]

Bruh, it's 13 pages long.

Yuh. It is.

The first paragraph is a bit confusing.

Twins? Define please.
The fighter? Is that one of the twins?


Parallel prose detected >_<

Yes. Twins. Ones a mage, ones a fighter

 

[SailusGebel]

The power scaling/balancing between the Twins vs. The MC.

I'm not sure what do you mean by this.

The choreography and the descriptions of the fighting itself. Does it click for you? Are you able to visualize what's happening?

I'm able to visualize everything, but I don't like the fight itself. I especially didn't like this To keep the mage out of the bout, Jake maneuvered so that the fighter remained in between them, paragraph.

As they fight, does it realistically make sense?

Again, what do you mean by 'realistically'? For example, the way the fighter uses buckler is asinine in my opinion, and I don't think it's realistic. Or are you talking about something else?

Then, is it fulfilling as combat progresses? Is there enough action/movement throughout that's fun and entertaining, or do you think it needs more?

Yet again, I don't understand what does "fulfilling" means. I think there is enough action, but it's not snappy enough.

As for the climax. It's meant to be swift and definitive, but is it too sharp? Does it cut off too soon, or do you think there should be more to it before the actual finishing blow?

Same here. I didn't find it swift at all, I think it's the opposite.

 

[MintiLime]

Ok so. I’m a newbie author so take my words with a boatload of salt.

I can understand what is happening by only reading the first sentence of each paragraph. Honestly, I could skip entire paragraphs.


Please, please consider breaking this into multiple chapters. You can end one on a cliffhanger even! That way there’s some tension and anxiety for the MC. If it’s just this 13 page long fight scene and the MC wins at the end anyway I gain nothing from reading the middle.

I wouldn’t say the fight scene is poorly written. I would just say it would be better as a series of chapters, some of which have the fight left off at a tie, some with the MCs losing, and then only the final chapter of the fight scene having them turn it around and win.

 

[melchi]

Yuh. It is.

Yes. Twins. Ones a mage, ones a fighter

I think it might be better to start out the first paragraph with something to that extent. Having the first sentence be about the tunnel being too quiet makes it seem like it is a paragraph about a tunnel. So starting it off with a quiet tunnel then switching to what the twins are doing is a bit jarring.

 

[SailusGebel]

The power scaling/balancing between the Twins vs. The MC.

Now that I think about it, does power scaling/balancing mean the way you kept upping their strengths? Like at first the twins fought by holding back(being hold back by MC), then the mage used buffs, then the twins demonified or something. While MC used his own buffs. If you meant this thing, I found it, no offense, very stupid\bad. But this is my subjective opinion.

 

[J_Chemist]

Ok so. I’m a newbie author so take my words with a boatload of salt.

I can understand what is happening by only reading the first sentence of each paragraph. Honestly, I could skip entire paragraphs.


Please, please consider breaking this into multiple chapters. You can end one on a cliffhanger even! That way there’s some tension and anxiety for the MC. If it’s just this 13 page long fight scene and the MC wins at the end anyway I gain nothing from reading the middle.

I wouldn’t say the fight scene is poorly written. I would just say it would be better as a series of chapters, some of which have the fight left off at a tie, some with the MCs losing, and then only the final chapter of the fight scene having them turn it around and win.

My readers prefer the longer chapters, so it's going to be sent forward as one. I actually asked them about this two chapters prior knowing that this scene was coming. I also don't do monologues or a lot of prattle during fights, as there rarely is much of it in real life other than a brief back and forth. So there won't be much filler.

Chopping it up isn't in the cards for this. So it's going as a one shot. Plus, I dislike malingering like Dragonball does.

Now that I think about it, does power scaling/balancing mean the way you kept upping their strengths? Like at first the twins fought by holding back(being hold back by MC), then the mage used buffs, then the twins demonified or something. While MC used his own buffs. If you meant this thing, I found it, no offense, very stupid\bad. But this is my subjective opinion.

Yes. That is what it means.

I think it might be better to start out the first paragraph with something to that extent. Having the first sentence be about the tunnel being too quiet makes it seem like it is a paragraph about a tunnel. So starting it off with a quiet tunnel then switching to what the twins are doing is a bit jarring.

That's mainly due to how the prior chapter ends. When read in succession, it's not as jarring. Hence why I'm asking for feedback on the fight itself.

 

[MintiLime]

My readers prefer the longer chapters, so it's going to be sent forward as one. I actually asked them about this two chapters prior knowing that this scene was coming. I also don't do monologues or a lot of prattle during fights, as there rarely is much of it in real life other than a brief back and forth. So there won't be much filler.

Chopping it up isn't in the cards for this. So it's going as a one shot. Plus, I dislike malingering like Dragonball does.

Yes. That is what it means.

That's mainly due to how the prior chapter ends. When read in succession, it's not as jarring. Hence why I'm asking for feedback on the fight itself.

If your readers prefer it that way, then that’s the end of that. What I would suggest, then, instead of asking on the Forum is that you try out Beta Readers. I saw a thread before about pulling in a couple of your readers to look over your newer works, etc. to get a more accurate opinion from your target demographic.

 

[J_Chemist]

If your readers prefer it that way, then that’s the end of that. What I would suggest, then, instead of asking on the Forum is that you try out Beta Readers. I saw a thread before about pulling in a couple of your readers to look over your newer works, etc. to get a more accurate opinion from your target demographic.

I ask here because this is a forum for writers and I'm looking for a writer perspective on the story. Not a reader perspective. Though my readers would give me a more accurate view of what they would like to see, and you're correct that Beta Readers would give that, that is not the intention of this feedback. I'm looking to see how other writers perceive the fight scene and what can be added or changed with their knowledge as writers. The readers will then get the outcome of that.

Readers will be skewed in terms of what they want to see and will give opinions based off that desire. Where a writer/fellow author will tell you what your story is missing and/or lacking, what it does wrong, and where problems lay. Such as the princess pointing out the buckler situation and confusion with realism and the objective. A Reader might think the buckler is dope and nod their head along, rather than point out the actual issue. Certainly, a reader may not give that perspective, but it's hit or miss and the actual feedback may or may not overlap. I post here on the off chance that it doesn't and to get a different viewpoint than one from a reader.

I'm not sure what do you mean by this.

I'm able to visualize everything, but I don't like the fight itself. I especially didn't like this To keep the mage out of the bout, Jake maneuvered so that the fighter remained in between them, paragraph.

Again, what do you mean by 'realistically'? For example, the way the fighter uses buckler is asinine in my opinion, and I don't think it's realistic. Or are you talking about something else?

Yet again, I don't understand what does "fulfilling" means. I think there is enough action, but it's not snappy enough.

Same here. I didn't find it swift at all, I think it's the opposite.

This actually gives me most of the feedback I was looking for and answers a good number of my questions, just by you asking your own/responding like this. Thanks, hime-chan.

 

[SailusGebel]

This actually gives me most of the feedback I was looking for and answers a good number of my questions, just by you asking your own/responding like this. Thanks, hime-chan.

I can add a bit more, but I'm not sure if you need it or not.

 

[J_Chemist]

I can add a bit more, but I'm not sure if you need it or not.

Feel free. I'm already making adjustments.

Upon researching, "buckler" was the incorrect detail. It's just a typical shield the guy is using. On top of that, a lot of the move set he's utilizing isn't correct and requires refining. I'm upping the tempo as well. I can see the dead space and the pacing of the fighting is actually very slow compared to actual CQC with such weapons.

That "snappy" sensation is what I'm looking to hit, and it sounds like I swung and missed.

 

[SailusGebel]

Feel free. I'm already making adjustments.

Upon researching, "buckler" was the incorrect detail. It's just a typical shield the guy is using. On top of that, a lot of the move set he's utilizing isn't correct and requires refining. I'm upping the tempo as well. I can see the dead space and the pacing of the fighting is actually very slow compared to actual CQC with such weapons.

That "snappy" sensation is what I'm looking to hit, and it sounds like I swung and missed.

About buckler. Even if it's a round or kite shield, it would've been cooler, at least in my opinion, if the fighter parried at least one strike, and struck(maybe without connecting) with his shield at least once. Using his shield to simply block is the most crude technique, at least when it comes to fantasy fighting. Since he is a swordmaster, he should be more creative and versatile with it I think.

Another point, it would've been fun if this 2 v 1 fight would show the advantages and disadvantages of this to both sides. What I want to say by this. While MC can put the fighter between himself and the mage, the fighter can do somewhat similar thing. Since the fighter's shield is bigger than a buckler, he can try to obstruct MC's vision and try to make an opening for the mage to flank.

Lastly. What I also wanted to mention is how turn-based the combat felt. I don't mean how them buffing in turns is turb-based, but the combat itself. This paragrpah, To keep the mage out of the bout, Jake maneuvered so that the fighter remained in between them, was the perfect illlustration of what I meant. That's what makes your fight less snappy(I think). I know this is hard and can become messy, but I would've preffered it, if instead of mentioning it in one separate paragraph, you would constantly address how Jake changes his moves since he fights against two.

Like describe how Jake swings his sword at the fighter, while simultaneously keeping his eyes on the mage and moving sideways so he won't open his flank. Or how mage walks sideways but always end up behing his twin's back because Jake moves in the same direction. How MC fails precisely because he fights against the two and his attention is diverted. His gaze is on the mage so he misses the shield bash, or a tackle, or a kick from the fighter. Something like that.

As of right now, it feels like Jake makes his move, than the fighter makes his. Jake makes his move again, then the fighter makes his. Than the mage FINALLY decided to buff the fighter. It doesn't feel real-time. Sure, Jake fires a barrage of spells. However, the way you describe twins reaction, it feels like they counter those spells at the same time. Yet the fighter proceeds to engage in combat, while the mage, well, just stands there behind his brother's back and waits. It doesn't feel like the mage is in urgency even though he was sweating and saw that Jake has more mana than him.

 

[J_Chemist]

About buckler. Even if it's a round or kite shield, it would've been cooler, at least in my opinion, if the fighter parried at least one strike, and struck(maybe without connecting) with his shield at least once. Using his shield to simply block is the most crude technique, at least when it comes to fantasy fighting. Since he is a swordmaster, he should be more creative and versatile with it I think.

Another point, it would've been fun if this 2 v 1 fight would show the advantages and disadvantages of this to both sides. What I want to say by this. While MC can put the fighter between himself and the mage, the fighter can do somewhat similar thing. Since the fighter's shield is bigger than a buckler, he can try to obstruct MC's vision and try to make an opening for the mage to flank.

Lastly. What I also wanted to mention is how turn-based the combat felt. I don't mean how them buffing in turns is turb-based, but the combat itself. This paragrpah, To keep the mage out of the bout, Jake maneuvered so that the fighter remained in between them, was the perfect illlustration of what I meant. That's what makes your fight less snappy(I think). I know this is hard and can become messy, but I would've preffered it, if instead of mentioning it in one separate paragraph, you would constantly address how Jake changes his moves since he fights against two.

Like describe how Jake swings his sword at the fighter, while simultaneously keeping his eyes on the mage and moving sideways so he won't open his flank. Or how mage walks sideways but always end up behing his twin's back because Jake moves in the same direction. How MC fails precisely because he fights against the two and his attention is diverted. His gaze is on the mage so he misses the shield bash, or a tackle, or a kick from the fighter. Something like that.

As of right now, it feels like Jake makes his move, than the fighter makes his. Jake makes his move again, then the fighter makes his. Than the mage FINALLY decided to buff the fighter. It doesn't feel real-time. Sure, Jake fires a barrage of spells. However, the way you describe twins reaction, it feels like they counter those spells at the same time. Yet the fighter proceeds to engage in combat, while the mage, well, just stands there behind his brother's back and waits. It doesn't feel like the mage is in urgency even though he was sweating and saw that Jake has more mana than him.

I noticed that in my writing, actually, how turn-based it is, and it makes sense. I've found myself sort of pivoting through POVs and rotating through the characters, trying not to leave any of them out. The turn-based feeling is likely the result. I do find it difficult to portray the motion of multiple people but it's likely due to a lack of experience with it. Seems I need to upgrade my writing ability with this chapter.

I'll definitely make note of this and see what I can cook with. I'm looking to get that frantic sensation with it. The constant jumping and movement. Vying for a proper position. Trying to get that good angle to attack. I should be able to do it so I'll put on some good muse and start the oven.

 

[SailusGebel]

I noticed that in my writing, actually, how turn-based it is, and it makes sense. I've found myself sort of pivoting through POVs and rotating through the characters, trying not to leave any of them out. The turn-based feeling is likely the result. I do find it difficult to portray the motion of multiple people but it's likely due to a lack of experience with it. Seems I need to upgrade my writing ability with this chapter.

I'll definitely make note of this and see what I can cook with. I'm looking to get that frantic sensation with it. The constant jumping and movement. Vying for a proper position. Trying to get that good angle to attack. I should be able to do it so I'll put on some good muse and start the oven.

I believe you will succeed.

 

[J_Chemist]

I believe you will succeed.

Here is a running document with an updated version. I'm going to leave the OG version available for both reference, comparison, and because I still would like feedback on it if peeps want to take a gander.

[Chapter 15 Draft, v2]

 

[J_Chemist]

Providing an update- I've completed the rewrite and the second draft was published. As it's still a difficult chapter for me and I'm still uncertain of whether or not it's "good enough", I am still open to feedback should peeps like to provide it. If not, all is good.

@MintiLime I did end up following your advice and found a good splitting point for the chapter when the twins were revealed to be Demonkin. After adding additional fighting, it ended up being a good cut off point. I'll be able to go more in-depth with the second stage of the fighting now that there's a whole new chapter to be written, and I've also already updated my plotline to accommodate. It actually works out in my favor now, as there was another issue the first version was giving me that I hadn't brought up. The second version solves the problem.

Thanks again, y'all. I appreciate it.

 

[MintiLime]

Providing an update- I've completed the rewrite and the second draft was published. As it's still a difficult chapter for me and I'm still uncertain of whether or not it's "good enough", I am still open to feedback should peeps like to provide it. If not, all is good.

@MintiLime I did end up following your advice and found a good splitting point for the chapter when the twins were revealed to be Demonkin. After adding additional fighting, it ended up being a good cut off point. I'll be able to go more in-depth with the second stage of the fighting now that there's a whole new chapter to be written, and I've also already updated my plotline to accommodate. It actually works out in my favor now, as there was another issue the first version was giving me that I hadn't brought up. The second version solves the problem.

Thanks again, y'all. I appreciate it.

Glad to hear it all worked out!

 

[SailusGebel]

I definetely prefer the second draft. However, in my opinion, it still lacks something.

Yet, the opening had been made. Jake swung his sword down in a heavy, angled arc that would cut into the fighter’s shoulder. The fighter braced, gritting his teeth. His shield wouldn’t make it-

The fighter emerged from the smoke several steps behind, and Jake rotated to target him with fire spears.

The parts of the chapter with the highlighted sentences. I really think you should include in either of those parts a couple paragraphs, or rewrite a couple existing ones to include a POV of one of the twins who isn't in a fight.

To further explain what I mean. Yet, the opening had been made. Jake swung his sword down in a heavy, angled arc that would cut into the fighter’s shoulder. The fighter braced, gritting his teeth. His shield wouldn’t make it- The couple paragraphs before this part right here. Why not write it from mage's POV? I think it will make the fight feel even less turn-based. You can use the same sequence of actions, but you can add how mage percieves it, and how he thinks to counter it.

Seeing his brother getting pushed down the mage acted hastily. Still experiencing the pain from the melee confrontation with Jake, he clenched his teeth and focused on chanting. It was hard to concentrate as his brother was right in front of his eyes, but this wasn't the first time they were in such situation.

When he saw how his brother slipped, his heart thumped, but he needed more time to concentrate. His brother was brough to his knee, enduring strike after strike, but the mage knew he have some more time. The chant has ended at the same moment when Jake was about to cut into the fighter's shoulder, but the mage was faster. Okay, this is a hastily written example, it's shit, but I think it's better to write an example rather than trying to explain my thoughts.

Maybe there were similar paragraphs and I didn't notice them. But I think it's fair to say that if I didn't notice them, at least in my case, you need to write more.

As for this part, you don't need to change much. The fighter emerged from the smoke several steps behind, and Jake rotated to target him with fire spears. You simply add a part where fighter tries to shake off the groggy state, just a tiny little bit of inner monologue, and then you describe the sequence where Jake strikes mage through the fighter's POV.

So yeah, adding description of how the fight unfolds through the eyes of the person who is currently not fighting. Add them not exactly where I pointed out, but somewhere in the chapter where you think this will fit. I can be wrong, but I think it will make your fight even less turn-based.