Writing Don’t know how to write this

[WaterFish]

I have a story in mind but I’m not sure which audience to cater to or how.

I get battle junkies into Xianxia like constant dunking on the main character overcomes his obstacles (at least in a loop every ten chapters or so), and Shoujo lovers like literally anything so long as it’s adding drama to the situation.

The next part of this will go off in a tangent so either bear with the text wall or simply click off.

If you’re still here four paragraphs in then you’ll probably be patient enough to hear me out.

So I’ll stop stalling and get to what I want to say.

Anyway, I want to write a novel in order to combat my nihilism… but I can’t think of a work or video essay on an Anime that can help me think a plot both intriguing and true to its roots.

I expressed existentialism in the sequel I planned before this story through RPG classes and the constant battle between doing what you’re good at versus your passion. Do you do what you want or what you feel? Is the sequel’s ‘theme’.

The ongoing question answered through story.

But I’m unsure how to express nihilism.

I feel my own nihilism but can’t succinctly put into words what it’s like besides ‘nothing matters’ along with apathy. Basically what that guy in My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU in his early days before he matured later in the story.

The feeling of being alone in the world even when surrounded by the people you love.

How do you put that into a story without being so on the nose about it? Relatively speaking.

The earlier example is more blink and you’ll miss it about existentialist themes being expressed in how RPG classes are defining humans in a fantasy setting. Something intangible but can be fought against through anarchy and positivity.

But I’m unsure how to combat nihilism instead of ignoring it. Pretending ‘nothing matters, everything good’ is just a lie used to keep people afloat. It makes one feel as if they have the answer even though that’s just being sensible.

If nothing matters and we are slaves to our fate then why not be smiling throughout life, right?

Maybe a younger version of me would’ve agreed.

But now I’m old enough to know sadness isn’t an enemy that needs to be taken down at all costs. Those who suffer from not having enough despair in their lives ironically feel sadder in life.

The starving don’t complain about not getting the tastier meals. Those who have never been loved aren’t picky about the type of love they receive. And those who say ‘nothing matters’ are those who can’t accept the many things that matter to them.

It’s different from existentialism.

There’s no feeling of smallness against the vast universe, but a lack of drive and motivation that fuels their apathetic view on the world. Which makes it harder for me to instil into my story using themes.

I’m not sure what kind of plot device could help me achieve what I’m looking for. To contemplate the topic without actually talking about it. I can’t think of any works that really explore nihilism.

And don’t some of you a-holes mention Rick and Morty because that’s a different can of worms.

I want to write a story that combats nihilismnot revels in the futility of life and death.

I want the reader to feel like that there is more to life than what they perceive on the surface or in the present tense. That the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain.

Sounds cheesy I know but that’s what I want to write, so that’s what I will.

The sequel is a hundred times more campy but I digress. I just need to figure out how to turn fighting nihilism into a theme by turning it into a plot device somehow. Regardless of what it is.

Hopefully someone can dispel my confusion.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

Just write what you want. Then if the audience is kind enough to complain you know what to do for your next story.

As for nihilism, it doesn't matter.

 

[Motsu]

I have a story in mind but I’m not sure which audience to cater to or how.

I get battle junkies into Xianxia like constant dunking on the main character overcomes his obstacles (at least in a loop every ten chapters or so), and Shoujo lovers like literally anything so long as it’s adding drama to the situation.

The next part of this will go off in a tangent so either bear with the text wall or simply click off.

If you’re still here four paragraphs in then you’ll probably be patient enough to hear me out.

So I’ll stop stalling and get to what I want to say.

Anyway, I want to write a novel in order to combat my nihilism… but I can’t think of a work or video essay on an Anime that can help me think a plot both intriguing and true to its roots.

I expressed existentialism in the sequel I planned before this story through RPG classes and the constant battle between doing what you’re good at versus your passion. Do you do what you want or what you feel? Is the sequel’s ‘theme’.

The ongoing question answered through story.

But I’m unsure how to express nihilism.

I feel my own nihilism but can’t succinctly put into words what it’s like besides ‘nothing matters’ along with apathy. Basically what that guy in My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU in his early days before he matured later in the story.

The feeling of being alone in the world even when surrounded by the people you love.

How do you put that into a story without being so on the nose about it? Relatively speaking.

The earlier example is more blink and you’ll miss it about existentialist themes being expressed in how RPG classes are defining humans in a fantasy setting. Something intangible but can be fought against through anarchy and positivity.

But I’m unsure how to combat nihilism instead of ignoring it. Pretending ‘nothing matters, everything good’ is just a lie used to keep people afloat. It makes one feel as if they have the answer even though that’s just being sensible.

If nothing matters and we are slaves to our fate then why not be smiling throughout life, right?

Maybe a younger version of me would’ve agreed.

But now I’m old enough to know sadness isn’t an enemy that needs to be taken down at all costs. Those who suffer from not having enough despair in their lives ironically feel sadder in life.

The starving don’t complain about not getting the tastier meals. Those who have never been loved aren’t picky about the type of love they receive. And those who say ‘nothing matters’ are those who can’t accept the many things that matter to them.

It’s different from existentialism.

There’s no feeling of smallness against the vast universe, but a lack of drive and motivation that fuels their apathetic view on the world. Which makes it harder for me to instil into my story using themes.

I’m not sure what kind of plot device could help me achieve what I’m looking for. To contemplate the topic without actually talking about it. I can’t think of any works that really explore nihilism.

And don’t some of you a-holes mention Rick and Morty because that’s a different can of worms.

I want to write a story that combats nihilismnot revels in the futility of life and death.

I want the reader to feel like that there is more to life than what they perceive on the surface or in the present tense. That the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain.

Sounds cheesy I know but that’s what I want to write, so that’s what I will.

The sequel is a hundred times more campy but I digress. I just need to figure out how to turn fighting nihilism into a theme by turning it into a plot device somehow. Regardless of what it is.

Hopefully someone can dispel my confusion.

You have a clear desire to write a novel that tackles nihilism and delves into the deeper meaning and purpose of life. You're seeking ways to incorporate these themes into your story without being too overt or direct, right?

Well anyway... First, focus on creating multidimensional characters who grapple with nihilistic beliefs and undergo personal growth. Use symbolism and metaphors to represent the conflict between nihilism and finding meaning. Structure your narrative to mirror the characters' journey from nihilism to purpose.

Explore the topic through thought-provoking dialogue and interactions, and use the setting and atmosphere to convey existential uncertainty. Engage readers emotionally by depicting struggles, triumphs, and moments of connection.

Remember that writing is a personal journey, so embrace the process and discover your unique voice.

Best of luck in your writing endeavor!

 

[Syringe]

Sounds like the MC needs a purpose to act as the plot device. Could be the reason why they do things. To 'feel'. Searching for meaning, etc. Could start at smaller things and build up. Nihilism might stem from the environment surrounding a person. Changing it might help to change the MC.

This kinda reminds me of Fernando Pessoas' conundrum. I recommend reading the Book of Disquiet. It doesn't combat nihilism, but it goes into depth about what you (potentially) feel about nihilism. He mentions how he himself doesn't feel human and creates multiple (I think 40+) personalities of himself and used them to write other books. That he'll be forgotten, no one will ever know how he feels in the present, but those that do will be alive in a different time from him.

Plot device could be something very, very personal rather than grand.

 

[WaterFish]

Sounds like the MC needs a purpose to act as the plot device. Could be the reason why they do things. To 'feel'. Searching for meaning, etc. Could start at smaller things and build up. Nihilism might stem from the environment surrounding a person. Changing it might help to change the MC.

This kinda reminds me of Fernando Pessoas' conundrum. I recommend reading the Book of Disquiet. It doesn't combat nihilism, but it goes into depth about what you (potentially) feel about nihilism. He mentions how he himself doesn't feel human and creates multiple (I think 40+) personalities of himself and used them to write other books. That he'll be forgotten, no one will ever know how he feels in the present, but those that do will be alive in a different time from him.

Plot device could be something very, very personal rather than grand.

Most fascinating and helpful reply by far.

 

[TheMonotonePuppet]

I have a story in mind but I’m not sure which audience to cater to or how.

I get battle junkies into Xianxia like constant dunking on the main character overcomes his obstacles (at least in a loop every ten chapters or so), and Shoujo lovers like literally anything so long as it’s adding drama to the situation.

The next part of this will go off in a tangent so either bear with the text wall or simply click off.

If you’re still here four paragraphs in then you’ll probably be patient enough to hear me out.

So I’ll stop stalling and get to what I want to say.

Anyway, I want to write a novel in order to combat my nihilism… but I can’t think of a work or video essay on an Anime that can help me think a plot both intriguing and true to its roots.

I expressed existentialism in the sequel I planned before this story through RPG classes and the constant battle between doing what you’re good at versus your passion. Do you do what you want or what you feel? Is the sequel’s ‘theme’.

The ongoing question answered through story.

But I’m unsure how to express nihilism.

I feel my own nihilism but can’t succinctly put into words what it’s like besides ‘nothing matters’ along with apathy. Basically what that guy in My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU in his early days before he matured later in the story.

The feeling of being alone in the world even when surrounded by the people you love.

How do you put that into a story without being so on the nose about it? Relatively speaking.

The earlier example is more blink and you’ll miss it about existentialist themes being expressed in how RPG classes are defining humans in a fantasy setting. Something intangible but can be fought against through anarchy and positivity.

But I’m unsure how to combat nihilism instead of ignoring it. Pretending ‘nothing matters, everything good’ is just a lie used to keep people afloat. It makes one feel as if they have the answer even though that’s just being sensible.

If nothing matters and we are slaves to our fate then why not be smiling throughout life, right?

Maybe a younger version of me would’ve agreed.

But now I’m old enough to know sadness isn’t an enemy that needs to be taken down at all costs. Those who suffer from not having enough despair in their lives ironically feel sadder in life.

The starving don’t complain about not getting the tastier meals. Those who have never been loved aren’t picky about the type of love they receive. And those who say ‘nothing matters’ are those who can’t accept the many things that matter to them.

It’s different from existentialism.

There’s no feeling of smallness against the vast universe, but a lack of drive and motivation that fuels their apathetic view on the world. Which makes it harder for me to instil into my story using themes.

I’m not sure what kind of plot device could help me achieve what I’m looking for. To contemplate the topic without actually talking about it. I can’t think of any works that really explore nihilism.

And don’t some of you a-holes mention Rick and Morty because that’s a different can of worms.

I want to write a story that combats nihilismnot revels in the futility of life and death.

I want the reader to feel like that there is more to life than what they perceive on the surface or in the present tense. That the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain.

Sounds cheesy I know but that’s what I want to write, so that’s what I will.

The sequel is a hundred times more campy but I digress. I just need to figure out how to turn fighting nihilism into a theme by turning it into a plot device somehow. Regardless of what it is.

Hopefully someone can dispel my confusion.

I like nihilism as a theme and I employ it very lightly throughout my own story, until I really hammer it home occasionally. One of the best ways to make your character an unreliable narrator and let the reader figure out that they are nihilistic through their actions rather than their inner thoughts. For example, you could make it seem as if they are surrounded by love, and they are a loving, kind person. Then sprinkle a few lines that just seem off, or oddly imitative of what others do in the same situation. You don't need to make them collapse crying, or just sit on the couch dully, after that. That's a bit on the nose, though some can pull that off.

For more extreme stuff on the futility of life, you could instead, you could make them threatened by a friend down on their luck and they lean into the dagger instead of away. Make them walk the side of the bridge and then the road, and then back again because the coin flip of dying or living... is just fine. Why would they care? Don't put emphasis on either moment though. Make it perfectly normal. Something like:
A cold piece of metal bit into my neck. I looked down in surprise, and then back up at my neighbor.
"Take the money out of your pocket," she demanded.
"Ok." I took out the receipt, the keys, the pen... Aha! The wallet. My neck rubbed against the knife as I took out the wallet.
Huh.
On a whim, I leaned slightly closer. Unsurprisingly, the pain increased.
"Here ya go," I said genially as my neck became more familiar with the sharp metal, before turning around. A lightly weeping wound encircled my neck as I spun around quickly.
Oh finally. I have been waiting for my bed.
I groan as I head up the stairs to sleep.
"So. Sore," I moan tiredly.
It's... pretty on the nose, but I didn't want to spend a bunch of time revising a one-off scene. Hopefully this should help.

Another suggestion is to choose a theme or origin for nihilism. Some don't really have either. Instead, they have a background story, like trauma or something, which leads to nihilism. But a theme or origin can spice things up. A theme in the way I am thinking of is the way that the nihilism represents. A lot of times, the theme for nihilism is dullness or drabness. I like to do nihilism that represents in other ways, like absolute utter fury, endless lying, an incessant need to help others, aggressively suicidal tendencies, etc. Imagine: you are so, so tired of the meaningless of life; your arms are trembling, and aching to move. Then someone talks to you as you spiral, so you put their head through a wall. Only then do you find that you don't care for their life, because it is meaningless too. Which increases your anger. Or imagine this: your life doesn't matter, but life matters to others, so you put yourself in toxic relationships so you can sacrifice everything because you just cannot care for what you sacrifice. The possibilities are endless under the sky.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Okay.

NOTHING MATTERS: So you are saying everything is of equal value, therefore everything is tied for first place.

Now then, If I kick you in the balls, does that matter? Yes? So You would prefer I didn't kick you in the balls right now. So there is Kicked in the balls, and not kicked in the balls, and not getting kicked in the balls is better than getting kicked in the balls.

SO. There are things that are of greater value than other things.

IF NOTHING MATTERS, HOW COULD THAT BE POSSIBLE? There are NON-ZERO VALUES to things in the universe, and nihilism only works if everything equals zero.

So, some things matter more than other things therefore something matters.

NOW WE ARE ONLY TRYING TO WORK OUT WHAT'S WHAT.

Nihilism is just trying to justify your depression and the fact you want to be lazy. Everything has value, we just don't know it.

THERE. A basic summary for what I'd use to talk someone out of killing themselves when they used the old 'nothing matters' card.

...

Now another personal fav of mine: LOVE DOESN'T EXIST, IT'S JUST CHEMICALS IN YOUR BRAIN.

Oh. Okay. So under what conditions would we have to exist for love to be "real"? Oh, love isn't real, ever? Well, got a question for ya, what if I programed a computer to love? I could, in theory, and it would experience love. You would then say, "It's just ones and zeros." So, the problem is, WE KNOW HOW LOVE WORKS, THEREFORE IT ISN'T REAL?

So, I know how your blood keeps you alive, is it REAL?

Here's what's going on, YOU ARE JUST BITCHING ABOUT THE OPERATING SYSTEM. My Love could be chemical, it could be binary code, it could be rocks on a beach.

If I took an infinate long beach, and I lined it with rocks in groups of eight. Then I used computer programing language that I kept in my head to work out a mathmatical equation that represented all of existance, then I walked down the beach, moving the rocks to the left or the right as I went to represent Ones and Zeros, I could, If I was god, go from one end of the rocks to the other, and all of existence would be in those rocks.

One Planck moment would pass for those "inside" the rock simulation, even if it took me twelve trillion years to walk from one end of the rocks to the other. For "God" it'd be A near infinate amount of time for even a single second to pass in the universe of rocks, but to us inside it, we wouldn't know, and it wouldn't matter.

Your Love could be nothing but ROCKS on a beach and a REALLY OCD God trying not to go insane as he walks up and down the beach.

Does it matter?

Just because we THINK we understand something doesn't mean it stops existing. Get over your 'I'm too cool for reality' bullshit and just be happy.

 

[TotallyHuman]

Why don't you reference Rick and Morty?

 

[Cipiteca396]

I want the reader to feel like that there is more to life than what they perceive on the surface or in the present tense. That the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain.

I honestly don't know how to write it, but I'm fifty chapters in already. You can take a look and see if you get inspired. https://www.scribblehub.com/series/303254/global-dungeon-network/

---

If you don't want to read all that crap, then...
Why don't you set up an Optimistic Nihilist's scenario? Your character should look at all the meaningless things that are happening... Shrug, and do something entirely different. Go play guitar at the office. Make ice cream at the park. Volunteer at an animal shelter or wherever.

Having realized that everything is meaningless, the character decides to enjoy things no matter how people react to it. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ManicPixieDreamGirl

To make it a real story though, the obvious answer is romance. The Optimist is not your main character, it's your love interest. The MC is a full pessimistic nihilist, or worse, but they meet the optimist and can't help being drawn along in their wake.

By the way, have some Nihilism Tropes. Reading them might also grant inspiration. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheAntiNihilist

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrawNihilist?from=Main.NietzscheWannabe

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

Read psychology books if you want to write those themes

Back in 90s, Hideai Anno experiencing depression when things goes bad during the production of Evangelion. The story also goes into depressing plot as a result.

Then he goes into psychologist and after consultation and recommendations of some psychology book, he finally understand what he's going through and how to develop the anime forward.

That's why the tone in Evangelion get worse and more depressing until it reach the instropective climax in the last 2 episodes.

 

[Reinaislost]

So to be on the same page, how do you define 'nihilism'?

Hikigaya is definitely not a nihilist, by the way. He is pessimistic and cynical about most things, sure, but he isn't a nihilist. However, I have the idea that you are talking about existential nihilism, as in believing that there is no intrinsic value or purpose to our lives. This explains the lack of motivation and apathy towards the world you have mentioned. Nothing really matters, for life itself has no objective meaning.
Nonetheless, you have also stated that you can't succinctly express it, so let me know if I'm wrong.

The second thing I'm puzzled about is the claim that it is not about existentialism, which I believe it is. 'Nothing matters, everything is good' isn't what it is about, but rather accepting that life has no objective value and creating your own subjective meaning. In that sense, the only meaning that life has to offer is the meaning you choose to give it and strive for.
There's also Absurdism, the position that reality or existence itself is irrational, and instead of ordering it into some coherent scheme, that we can't be satisfied by the absurd world, we should acknowledge it and confront it without hope or despair.

Both could fit into existential nihilism, but also not. Note that moral nihilism, for example, denies objective morality, which neither absurdism nor existentialism could fit into.
So the point is that the way you can tackle existential nihilism is by affirming life, whether it is subjective or not. Let the protagonist find their own meaning, and since it exists on a spectrum, the meaning could be 'the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain,' or whichever way you want to write your protagonist.

As for how to write it, the conflict could be something so personal that it compels the protagonist to act despite their apathy. The thing about this is that one would commit suicide if not inhumane acts because life is futile, if they weren't optimistic nihilists in some manner. True nihilism is destructive.
Anyway, Motsu has given sound advices, so follow them, including other members.

I'm not a philosophy student, so I could be wrong about many things. Please, take this into consideration.

 

[WaterFish]

So to be on the same page, how do you define 'nihilism'?

Hikigaya is definitely not a nihilist, by the way. He is pessimistic and cynical about most things, sure, but he isn't a nihilist. However, I have the idea that you are talking about existential nihilism, as in believing that there is no intrinsic value or purpose to our lives. This explains the lack of motivation and apathy towards the world you have mentioned. Nothing really matters, for life itself has no objective meaning.
Nonetheless, you have also stated that you can't succinctly express it, so let me know if I'm wrong.

The second thing I'm puzzled about is the claim that it is not about existentialism, which I believe it is. 'Nothing matters, everything is good' isn't what it is about, but rather accepting that life has no objective value and creating your own subjective meaning. In that sense, the only meaning that life has to offer is the meaning you choose to give it and strive for.
There's also Absurdism, the position that reality or existence itself is irrational, and instead of ordering it into some coherent scheme, that we can't be satisfied by the absurd world, we should acknowledge it and confront it without hope or despair.

Both could fit into existential nihilism, but also not. Note that moral nihilism, for example, denies objective morality, which neither absurdism nor existentialism could fit into.
So the point is that the way you can tackle existential nihilism is by affirming life, whether it is subjective or not. Let the protagonist find their own meaning, and since it exists on a spectrum, the meaning could be 'the future is worth fighting for even if the results are uncertain,' or whichever way you want to write your protagonist.

As for how to write it, the conflict could be something so personal that it compels the protagonist to act despite their apathy. The thing about this is that one would commit suicide if not inhumane acts because life is futile, if they weren't optimistic nihilists in some manner. True nihilism is destructive.
Anyway, Motsu has given sound advices, so follow them, including other members.

I'm not a philosophy student, so I could be wrong about many things. Please, take this into consideration.

Thank you. I’m happy you read through and gave me a serious reply to my nonsensical blog post that might not be making sense. I’m not that familiar with the lines In philosophy as they tend to bleed into each other for me sometimes (I know I shouldn’t do that but it just happens).

Thank you for the response.