Finding the Right Balance of litRPG Elements

[AuthorsDread]

Hey Scribblers, I wanted to get your thoughts on implementing litRPG elements in fiction. I'm curious how often you all incorporate these game inspired elements into your stories. Do you aim for a lighter litRPG touch to keep the focus on plot and characters? Or do you really lean into the numbers, stats, and mechanics as a core part of the experience?

Personally, I'm trying to find the right balance for my current project. Too much litRPG and it starts to feel more like a game manual than a story. But used sparingly, I think it can be a fun way to track progression and give readers a sense of tangible growth.

What are your thoughts? How do you decide how prominent to make the litRPG aspects in your writing? What techniques have you found that help seamlessly integrate these elements into the storytelling? I'd love to hear your experiences.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

I have a personal belief that the point of a LitRPG is the System and how the MC takes advantage of it. If all that happens is he gets bigger numbers and never exploits the system in ways the creators intended, then what's the point? All you are doing is showing off behind the curtain.

For example:

Mike realized that the trap paralyzed him and that he couldn't move, however, nothing stopped him from using his handy haversack. He thought about the contents of his bag and choose to "take out" an item and instantly equip it.

A pair of stilts.

Abruptly he snapped to an upright position.

His paralyzed companion blinked. Illunanna managed to croak out, "How?"

He glanced over, "Stilts are three point oh and never got an update. I've got enough balance skill to take the auto to use them. Stilts give you a base movement of twenty, PERIOD." He started to walk across the room towards the trap they triggered, "No movement, a thousand movement, doesn't matter. Put on stilts and you move twenty feet a round." He paused at the crystal and wobbled for a bit, "And oddly enough, when you fail the balance check, it causes damage to you AND whatever you hit. So while I assume this thing might be immune to every form of damage, ironically, unless yer a monk, there is no protection from FALLING DAMAGE."

Mike suddenly pitched forward and crashed his head into the crystal that was paralyzing the party.

The crystal shattered on impact.

 

[Zinless]

He glanced over, "Stilts are three point oh and never got an update. I've got enough balance skill to take the auto to use them. Stilts give you a base movement of twenty, PERIOD."

I wish more LitRPGs do this. I always love when seeing unintentional "bugs" in games that helps the player, gives me the feeling of finally outsmarting the game I was so frustrated with.

 

[melchi]

I think that a good litrpg only includes what can be shown. Think about the big picture and only include what is needed.

Some stuff that is adjacent should be combined.

For example: intelligence and wisdom could be combined into mental unless there is a mechanism that needs them to be different.

But if there is those two stats then an author has to show, somehow that they mean more than numbers.

Too much of that can really big a story down so I advise to only include what makes sense for what is trying to be accomplished.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

LitRPG and GameLIT are vastly different, tho.
My novel is high fantasy with a hard magic system that exists as part of nature, so it can't be exploited by a rando as you would a system full of holes like DnD or similar. It's simplistic enough for everyone with iq higher than room temperature to use effectively, and those above the norm will excel as with everything else in life.

The concept of "exploiting the system" is kind of lame imo because it implies a faulty reality that can only exist within games made by imperfect beings like humans, which falls flat when it exists outside of one.

 

[Syringe]

So long as its fun then that's all that matters.

I feel that lighted litRPG elements pair very well with fantasy. Arifureta did it in a pretty good way where it's only relevant in Guild Cards, which shows how strong someone is at a single glance. It's also a good idea to use these elements to condense information (i.e, a list of what you have on you, information about an enemy, or a list of locations for say a teleportation spell).

So it could appear as often as whenever a new enemy, material, etc is discovered for the first time, or when milestones are reached.

 

[miyoga]

Keeping track or as a means of progression is a great use of it. Leveling up the World does both in that the system provides the numbers but is also necessary for advancing those numbers. Level Up Hero (which has more chapters on RR than on here) is great at showing how skills can be combined through system-granted quests.

I would say that the best question to ask in the writing process is "what do I actually need for my story". Don't use it as a macguffin, but actually have a purpose for everything. Using Melchi's example, maybe you've got a group of scholars where they are more book smart than world wise (think of a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory) and then you've got sages and philosophers who advise the ruling class. That necessitates separate INT and WIS by definition, but if you don't need that separation, just call it "Mind" and be done. Maybe you've got thieves where they need INT to open locked rooms/chests/etc. and a WIS-CHA combination to scam the rich. There's so many possibilities that you need to know what your necessary traits are for the story you want to write.

That said, I may not be the best to listen to as I included it to take the piss out of all the stories that include systems for the sake of having one.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

Keeping track or as a means of progression is a great use of it. Leveling up the World does both in that the system provides the numbers but is also necessary for advancing those numbers. Level Up Hero (which has more chapters on RR than on here) is great at showing how skills can be combined through system-granted quests.

I would say that the best question to ask in the writing process is "what do I actually need for my story". Don't use it as a macguffin, but actually have a purpose for everything. Using Melchi's example, maybe you've got a group of scholars where they are more book smart than world wise (think of a Sheldon from Big Bang Theory) and then you've got sages and philosophers who advise the ruling class. That necessitates separate INT and WIS by definition, but if you don't need that separation, just call it "Mind" and be done. Maybe you've got thieves where they need INT to open locked rooms/chests/etc. and a WIS-CHA combination to scam the rich. There's so many possibilities that you need to know what your necessary traits are for the story you want to write.

That said, I may not be the best to listen to as I included it to take the piss out of all the stories that include systems for the sake of having one.

Charisma is incredibly problematic in LitRPG to balance, since the one with the most of it becomes a country leader, cult leader, dictator, scam artist, serial criminal of the uncivilized kind, or worse. Giving such vague stuff a concrete value to increase or decrease at will at the detriment of other stats is purely meant as a game mechanic, not a reflection of reality. An incredibly buff barbarian can be as charismatic as the best bard in the city because it's a soft characteristic instead of a hard one like physical strength, magic affinity, or musical sense. One trains social skills through life, and some are better at it at first than others. I do not lose strength if i become more confident, and sometimes physical strength gives confidence which turns into charisma. If you have any intention on selling the story as something that happens in a hypothetical but 'real' world, it can't sustain the existence of it.

TLDR: some stats can't exist outside a table top game.

 

[GlassRose]

An important thing to consider when discussing Systems is where did it come from? What are it's limits? Is it a fundamental law of the universe, or was it created by someone? For what purpose? This can drastically change things, because if it's fundamental, then it might not be exploitable and there might be no theoretical limit to anyone's growth, but if it was made by someone, depending on who and why, it could have faults that could be exploited, inherent imbalances, limits. The System could be neutral, an ally, or an enemy, depending on why it was made. It could be omnipotent and omniscient, or it can be constrained.

And whenever you write a story with a system, you should first ask yourself if you can tell the story you want to tell without it. If the answer is yes, then you shouldn't bother with a system, it'll just bog things down with meaningless numbers that don't actually mean anything. If a story has a system, it has to be somehow relevant to the plot or essential to the world, either by allowing things that otherwise wouldn't be possible for the characters/world, by acting as a pseudo character in and of itself, by shaping civilizations in the world, or something else.

It's also notable that not every system has to have numbers, or even progression. A system could be as small as everyone gets one skill at adulthood, for example. There's no progression, but it could still have large implications in world building, with inherent inequalities based on what kind of skill you have, class systems based around that. Having a single skill might make characters need to be more creative about it. And it can serve a roll to give characters unique powers that would otherwise be difficult to fit into a setting or explain just how they work, or would be too difficult in practice for a person to actually use without 'system assistance'.

Personally, I prefer systems that are light on the numbers and numbers of skills, and focus more on the unique powers afforded by the skills, beyond a the simplistic stuff like 'oh, increase fire damage by 1% for each level in this skill'. That type of skill is just not narratively interesting, and it's hard to see the effects in the story. It might as well not be there.

Skills should have direct, visible effects in the story, and advancing the skill should have tangible, immediately obvious benefits. That is much more satisfying for a reader than just, 'number go up'. Eventually, number go up becomes boring and just gets glazed over. Skills having levels is okay, but I believe they should not be the sole thing going on. I believe that levels should act more as progress bars to the next milestone, which fundamentally alters or expands the skill in some way.

Skills are more crucial to a system than stats. It's the skills that make or break a system, by both meanings of the word. Read enough LitRPGs and stats start to lose all meaning.

If you do decide to use stats in a system, you should make it very clear in-story, through action, the impact those stats have. For a stat going up to have meaning, you have to very firmly and intentionally demonstrate time and time again how those stats make what would otherwise be impossible, possible.

You should be very aware of what kind of power scaling you intend for your system as well, and where that power comes from. Is it the skills that propel people into the superhuman, or the stats? How superhuman can people become with the system? Capable of wrestling a mammoth? Capable of punching a planet into oblivion? The larger the scale, the more careful you have to be with big numbers, because eventually every big number looks the same. You might want to be more reserved with increasing numbers, but make each one count more. Or, you could have different 'stages', and when you advance from one to the next, your stat display shrinks down, not actually decreasing the output but simply putting the display into perspective for the stage of power you're on.

I still personally don't think stat numbers is very good, personally, and you shouldn't just replace it with a different-looking but identical in practice system either (like letter grading). It's not the inching forward growth that's satisfying, but the milestones (at least in my opinion, but I don't think it's an uncommon one?), so a system that capitalizes more in milestones will be more satisfying.

 

[LilRora]

I personally like System elements the most when there is a reason for their existence. Every buffon can copy stats from some game and use them just because in a story, but that's boring and fundamentally a waste of potential.

Placing the story in a VR game is somewhat a solution to that, but it doesn't solve the most basic problem, that there is no reason for the System to be there. At least half of stories in VR out there could be stripped of any VR and game elements and still work.

The takes I really like though are when the System has history, even if hidden from the audience. Not just is because the author decided so. Example of that are Thistlelight and Reaper's Resurgence on RR. I don't remember any on Scribble.

In regards to the topic of the thread though, the point is, in those stories the System not a separate thing you need to be careful not to overuse, but an essential, inseparable part not only of progression, but also plot and worldbuilding. It becomes a solid background for the actual story by itself and, if used well, doesn't distract much from the plot since it is part of the plot.

How prominent it is... it's a complicated thing. But I've written quite a bit in that genre and what I can tell you is that I never managed to keep writing a story because of the LitRPG elements. Frankly, I once got so invested in writing a story that I forgot it was supposed to be a MRMMO and just wrote the plot without bringing up the System at all. That is how important LitRPG elements were to me there - by themselves, they are nothing. So they should never be the focus of the story.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Unless you plan to write your story as a D&D backlog like "MC (Level 69420) used his Sword of OPness+69 to attack Mob character (Level mob) to inflict (attack 696969 - defense 0) damage" you just let your litrpg elements be background noise or don't even make them known.

Not everything needs to be hardcoded into story and exposition. 99% of litrpg mumbo can just be explained by "It's magic, duh. I don't have to explain squid."

The only use I personally can see and accept is a litrpg system as skill and class hard locks for gatekeeping reasons. Not sure how sustainable a world would be if every mage was Konosuba Megumin because they can take every skill they want.

Also cultivation stories are litrpgs, prove me wrong. You got levels that accumulate, you got skills you get by leveling up, you even got the excessive grinding...

 

[AuthorsDread]

I think that a good litrpg only includes what can be shown. Think about the big picture and only include what is needed.

Some stuff that is adjacent should be combined.

For example: intelligence and wisdom could be combined into mental unless there is a mechanism that needs them to be different.

But if there is those two stats then an author has to show, somehow that they mean more than numbers.

Too much of that can really big a story down so I advise to only include what makes sense for what is trying to be accomplished.

Great advise. I was struggling whether to implement over-saturate stats.