Male & Female Psychology in Writing

[DiscoDream]

I recently got done playing an amazing adult visual novel called 'Hero Party Must Fall'
The writing in this pervy masterpiece was absolutely astounding.
The pixelated art was unique but very hot, and only got better as i played through.
The author is clearly a master of sexual tension, drawing the progress out slowly- but rewards with a satisfying explosion of lust
The music absolutely f*$#ing slapped in a couple scenes. The music also FIT each scene like a glove.
Each character had depth, motivations, flaws. They were far more than simple tropes....

But the thing that impressed me the most?
Was the author's understanding of both Male & Female psychology.
The female characters acted like REAL women. And the author definitely understands male issues.

This got me thinking...
How often do you see Men written correctly in Female works? How often do you see Women written correctly in Male works?
I've read both Male & Female authors, and I almost always notice a disconnect in how the characters feel.
When men write female characters, they almost never feel like real live women: even famous authors are guilty of this.
The same goes for famous female authors as well. (To be fair though, most of my reads are fiction, and fiction tends to cater to sexual ideals of its readers. whether its the unrealisticly perfect hunk from a romance, or the one dimensional damsels in most fantasy)

My point is that i think a deeper understanding of the Psychological differences among the sexes can really make a regular fiction turn into a masterpiece.

What do you guys think? Have you noticed this before, or is this just me? Am i full of sh!t?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this!

Also....... If your pervy like me try 'Hero Party Must Fall' the writing in it was so damn good that i feel emotionally drained, yet craving more!

I've come to accept that there are all types of people in this world, even those who seem cartoonishly dysfunctional.
Though characters in novels with any amount of romance are usually caricature's of real people, lacking in most basic wants/needs. I don't see this as much of a problem. When it comes to 'relationships' it's often undesired to have a deeper understanding, and the knowledge provided would actually detract from the intended purpose. If both characters act like real people it would just quickly spoil any sort of 'romance' as we, the readers have perfect info/memory of what's going on. I, personally, don't want to see/remember the thoughts going through the partners head as they say some horrid shit. Nor do I want to know why someone resorts to violence in a relationship instead of just leaving. The disconnect from reality is what makes it desireable imo. Though I do understand why some people would enjoy seeing those personality types, I don't think it's the difference between a masterpiece and an average series.

 

[Anon2024]

But unfortunately, there are good reasons why girls go after attractive tall males. It just doesnt make for a good anime character

“Good” would need to be qualified but I’m not planning on hijacking this thread.

 

[StrongArm]

Whether it's a man or a woman, we're all just objectively the same. My technique is to not write them as if they're different species.

I write with an objective factor and what will make them ‘them’ is how they respond to life. Instead of “This is how should a man act,” I do, “How would a person with social anxiety react in this situation?” Now whether they're a man or a woman just happened to be their sexes. Obviously, there would be other factors involve such as their general personality. Do they freeze, fly, or fight as their common response to issues? Etc.

That's why breaking down your own character and writing a character profile is advised. You don't write them to put them in this role, you put them into this role because it's them.

Thats good advice, i would reccomend it as well. Buuuut...

Male & Female
We are not the same.
Not only are there physical differences among sexes, but there are mental differences as well.
This is called sexual dimorphism, and humans have a fair amount of it.
This has nothing to do with culture. This is biology affecting how we think.

I'll give you an example.
Did you know women have better senses of smell than men? There are reasons for this, one of them being that they can actually smell testosterone levels in men.
Thats right, women can actually determine the quality of a mate by smell (to a degree).
This is not a conscious action. It is SUB-conscious.
When they scent a male with low levels of testosterone- i.e. a 'beta' male, it usually turns them off.

So because of this Biological FACT, we can GENERALLY assume that women's psychology causes them to seek out stronger healthy mates- i.e. Tall, strong, confident.

So maybe now you have a deeper understanding of one reason why girls 'friend-zone' a lotta guys.
This can help you write more realistic characters

When it comes to humans, you can only generalize. There are always humans who live outside of the normal ranges.

But you CAN generalize.

 

[Varstark]

I remember listening to Patrice O'Neal waxing poetics about sexual dynamics growing up. Crazy to think how many times he would've been cancelled nowadays. Now it's all stoicism/red pill/self-improvement stuff, and they don't have the same meme-forge-uncle energy.

And there are only so many times you can watch Pride and Prejudice before picking apart what's between the lines. Or any female-targeted media. (I mean, I'd rather my husbandos be beefy and grungy over sleek and stoic, but eh, tastes.)

But you CAN generalize.

You must generalise. It's the only way we achieve things on a level above the individual, and Aristotle's famous quote can explain the rest.

And, disregarding luck, getting your story to be popular means you need to know generalisations and why they are so, even if the writing is utterly laughable like the average K-drama or light novel or even goddamn memes.

 

[apexaltra]

You can say "a majority of women have X trait" but those majorities are more like 60% than 90%. Even if women can subconsciously sniff out testosterone (which wouldn't surprise me, because yeah we do smell a lot of things we don't realize), there's still a 60/40 (or 50/30/20 or whatever) split in regards to how it actually influences our actions.

Anyways. Regardless of how many gender differences there are, it's an issue in writing when authors overthink it. Or when they gender a character's actions rather than having those actions be authentic to the character's personality. I've seen this happen with men writing men, women writing women, women writing men, men writing women etc- and it's annoying every time. Don't make things overcomplicated to the point where you fall back on biology and gender essentialist stereotypes. Just write a person. We're all capable of having the same personality traits and feelings and shit.

For example I was reading a book written by a man with a male MC, and I was liking him and found him pretty believable and relatable (as a woman), but then he got a love interest and the author started talking about how he had a natural male instinct to protect his mate and like... you don't have to explain it like that lmao. There are better ways of writing that shit.

Same goes for a woman having some womanly biological urge to be with manly guys. Even if it's true, if I read that in a novel it'd be an instant turn off.

 

[StrongArm]

You can say "a majority of women have X trait" but those majorities are more like 60% than 90%. Even if women can subconsciously sniff out testosterone (which wouldn't surprise me, because yeah we do smell a lot of things we don't realize), there's still a 60/40 (or 50/30/20 or whatever) split in regards to how it actually influences our actions.

Anyways. Regardless of how many gender differences there are, it's an issue in writing when authors overthink it. Or when they gender a character's actions rather than having those actions be authentic to the character's personality. I've seen this happen with men writing men, women writing women, women writing men, men writing women etc- and it's annoying every time. Don't make things overcomplicated to the point where you fall back on biology and gender essentialist stereotypes. Just write a person. We're all capable of having the same personality traits and feelings and shit.

For example I was reading a book written by a man with a male MC, and I was liking him and found him pretty believable and relatable (as a woman), but then he got a love interest and the author started talking about how he had a natural male instinct to protect his mate and like... you don't have to explain it like that lmao. There are better ways of writing that shit.

Same goes for a woman having some womanly biological urge to be with manly guys. Even if it's true, if I read that in a novel it'd be an instant turn off.

Hmmm, thats a really good point.
If I had to write a scenario that was kept in line with general biological & psychological norms, then i wouldnt say something like : "Jane Doe's subconscious mind picked up a lack of testosterone from the scent of Virgin-kun" As much as i love science, i know it doesnt make for a fun read.

Instead i would word it like this: "Jane Doe's date with Virgin-kun was boring her to death. He said all the right things at exactly the right time, but for some reason, Jane just wasnt into him.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Did you know women have better senses of smell than men? There are reasons for this, one of them being that they can actually smell testosterone levels in men.
Thats right, women can actually determine the quality of a mate by smell (to a degree).
This is not a conscious action. It is SUB-conscious.
When they scent a male with low levels of testosterone- i.e. a 'beta' male, it usually turns them off.

So because of this Biological FACT, we can GENERALLY assume that women's psychology causes them to seek out stronger healthy mates- i.e. Tall, strong, confident.

So maybe now you have a deeper understanding of one reason why girls 'friend-zone' a lotta guys.
This can help you write more realistic characters

Did you know men have a better sense of smell than women? There are reasons for this, such as the fact that women spend a lot of time with too-powerful spices while in the kitchen. But also, men need to be able to detect the worthiness of their male rivals! They can sense your strength or weakness from the levels of testosterone in your sweet, delicious sweat. Now that you know of this irrefutable FACT, you might understand why yo- ahem, certain men- got bullied in school and the workplace. It's just simple biology, you know? Nothing to be done about it. /s

"Jane Doe's date with Virgin-kun was boring her to death. He said all the right things at exactly the right time, but for some reason, Jane just wasnt into him.

Imagine having preferences outside of 'read a checklist of cliché one-liners'.

You must generalise. It's the only way we achieve things on a level above the individual, and Aristotle's famous quote can explain the rest.

Oh, you mean this one?

 

[Varstark]

Oh, you mean this one?

I mean, sure, let's go with that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Generalisation and individualism aren't mutually exclusive as much as they bleed into each other, so you're grasping at straws here.

This is the quote, by the way.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Generalisation and individualism aren't mutually exclusive as much as they bleed into each other, so you're grasping at straws here.

This is the quote, by the way.

Interesting. I've never seen that one. Very relatable. Not sure what straws you're talking about though. You seem to have understood something I had no intention of saying.

 

[StrongArm]

Did you know men have a better sense of smell than women? There are reasons for this, such as the fact that women spend a lot of time with too-powerful spices while in the kitchen. But also, men need to be able to detect the worthiness of their male rivals! They can sense your strength or weakness from the levels of testosterone in your sweet, delicious sweat. Now that you know of this irrefutable FACT, you might understand why yo- ahem, certain men- got bullied in school and the workplace. It's just simple biology, you know? Nothing to be done about it. /s

Imagine having preferences outside of 'read a checklist of cliché one-liners'.

Oh, you mean this one?

Settle down there sport.
Its a conversation, not a dick. Dont take it so hard

Also, i never got bullied. I had a loving father who was there for me and taught me how to fight, like any good dad should

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Oh, you mean like the Trashcanman? Yeah, I don't know a more realistic character.

Dude, I knew that guy. As a client. In the system. Group home. It was fuckin' insane. Everyone was like, did steven king steal this guy's look/life? No, he didn't nuke anyone, but one day someone brought it up and we were like, fuck.

How often do you see Men written correctly in Female works? How often do you see Women written correctly in Male works?

I don't pay attention to author's gender. However, I'm writing two stories where the sexual sociological morality is flipped. I think I'm doing a good job. In my third, it has traditional gender norms for a feudal period in a European ambient setting, I think I'm handling that well.

I think the society is important for determining behavior, not just chromosomes.

This is not a conscious action. It is SUB-conscious.

As someone with a degree in psychology, I dispute the existence of the subconscious.

Freud was wrong about so many things and left a lasting scar on humanity.

An explicit/implicit framework is more accurate and healthy.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Settle down there sport.

Are you from the thirties, or do people actually still talk like that in some forsaken corner of the world?

Its a conversation, not a dick. Dont take it so hard

I can tell what you were trying to do, but you failed so miserably I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you...

Also, i never got bullied. I had a loving father who was there for me and taught me how to fight, like any good dad should

In line with the last statement... I'm gonna choose to believe you. I hope you have lots of (manly but not abusive) fights with your dad, and don't get bullied by anyone.

 

[Bloodbath_Voracity]

Thats good advice, i would reccomend it as well. Buuuut...

Male & Female
We are not the same.
Not only are there physical differences among sexes, but there are mental differences as well.
This is called sexual dimorphism, and humans have a fair amount of it.
This has nothing to do with culture. This is biology affecting how we think.

I'll give you an example.
Did you know women have better senses of smell than men? There are reasons for this, one of them being that they can actually smell testosterone levels in men.
Thats right, women can actually determine the quality of a mate by smell (to a degree).
This is not a conscious action. It is SUB-conscious.
When they scent a male with low levels of testosterone- i.e. a 'beta' male, it usually turns them off.

So because of this Biological FACT, we can GENERALLY assume that women's psychology causes them to seek out stronger healthy mates- i.e. Tall, strong, confident.

So maybe now you have a deeper understanding of one reason why girls 'friend-zone' a lotta guys.
This can help you write more realistic characters

When it comes to humans, you can only generalize. There are always humans who live outside of the normal ranges.

But you CAN generalize.

I agree with this. I meant to say that no matter what, it doesn't even need to be humans, we all or everything in the universe have an objective commonalities. In us animals, eating is an example. I go deeper and that's honestly what I'm searching for... Just what is it the makes everything in this universe same... The very core where be it the sun or humans, what makes them similar... So far, in terms of humans (even animals) we all act on our desire [Motivation] (whether they're instinctive or conscious). I am doing further research and kinda excited about this... Probably a lifetime studying XD.

 

[apexaltra]

As much as i love science, i know it doesnt make for a fun read.

It's not even that; when used appropriately, scientific description can really add to a story. But when that science is based around gender or sex it's Really easy for it to come off as sexist.

 

[StrongArm]

I agree with this. I meant to say that no matter what, it doesn't even need to be humans, we all or everything in the universe have an objective commonalities. In us animals, eating is an example. I go deeper and that's honestly what I'm searching for... Just what is it the makes everything in this universe same... The very core where be it the sun or humans, what makes them similar... So far, in terms of humans (even animals) we all act on our desire [Motivation] (whether they're instinctive or conscious). I am doing further research and kinda excited about this... Probably a lifetime studying XD.

Yeah, THIS is the kind of conversation i was hoping for. Some fresh insight and new perspectives. I think about things like that too, are we just animals? Or are we something more? I fall into the people are 'just animals' group, slaves to our own biology. Evidently its not a popular ideaology...

It's not even that; when used appropriately, scientific description can really add to a story. But when that science is based around gender or sex it's Really easy for it to come off as sexist.

Yeah, i really didnt expect this thread to go the way it did... I didnt think that just mentioning gender differences would cause the white knights of the internet to go crazy.

 

[MajorKerina]

I’ve seen lists like this before, but none of these are particularly definitive. It’s complicated to really pin down. Most psychology classes are either full of it or biased along the way that instructors were taught. The best way to really get a grasp is to hang around somewhere where you can just sit and listen to people like in a bookstore or perhaps a coffee shop… without getting in trouble.

My friend gave a flippant example. She said you write a woman like you write a man except you screw them up. I have a lot of trouble writing male characters that feel distinct. The problem with attempting to write characters of all types is finding yourself falling into clichés like the big tough trucker Cletus or Cecil the cultured class president who requires order or or Darla the cheerleader who just wants to have a good time and be with her friends. You could have a little fun if you had Cletus the trucker who’s cultured AF and requires order and structure in his truck when he is driving. Then you have Cecil the class president who just wants to be with his friends and have a good time and not worry about all the school stuff and taking care of it and sometimes hops up the window because he doesn’t want the responsibility. And of course you have Darla the big tough, maybe hard drinking cheerleader who likes bench pressing logs before doing pyramid support.

Characters can be quite interchangeable and different and weird and contradictory as much as human beings can be. All you have to do is be cognizant of human traits and then work through them as you’re developing your particular character to fit not only the narrative but to express qualities that the character for your story possesses that are strengths and weaknesses and then outline qualities they are lacking which would be benefits and potential virtues. The anatomical parts of the character just give you a template for the kind of life experience they might have but don’t ordain them to a particular path.

One trap that’s easy to fall into especially when you’re dealing with the main character who is the opposite sex or some other quality as opposed to the writer is to kind of play it safe and not give them too many extreme qualities that you might feel unfamiliar with. I would very much encourage writers to go off the deep end with their characters because boring characters don’t grow no matter what sex or gender they are.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Yeah, THIS is the kind of conversation i was hoping for. Some fresh insight and new perspectives. I think about things like that too, are we just animals? Or are we something more? I fall into the people are 'just animals' group, slaves to our own biology. Evidently its not a popular ideaology...

People commit suicide.

If there isn't a better proof that, in the end, nurture can over come nature, I don't know what is.

In the end, there are biological tendencies, but there is no reason we can't try and ignore them. Think of it like playing a video game. You COULD go for the optimal build, but sometimes you build something just because it sounds cool, or because you are playing in a group and you want to fit in. Social pressure is a big factor.

 

[StrongArm]

I’ve seen lists like this before, but none of these are particularly definitive. It’s complicated to really pin down. Most psychology classes are either full of it or biased along the way that instructors were taught. The best way to really get a grasp is to hang around somewhere where you can just sit and listen to people like in a bookstore or perhaps a coffee shop… without getting in trouble.

My friend gave a flippant example. She said you write a woman like you write a man except you screw them up. I have a lot of trouble writing male characters that feel distinct. The problem with attempting to write characters of all types is finding yourself falling into clichés like the big tough trucker Cletus or Cecil the cultured class president who requires order or or Darla the cheerleader who just wants to have a good time and be with her friends. You could have a little fun if you had Cletus the trucker who’s cultured AF and requires order and structure in his truck when he is driving. Then you have Cecil the class president who just wants to be with his friends and have a good time and not worry about all the school stuff and taking care of it and sometimes hops up the window because he doesn’t want the responsibility. And of course you have Darla the big tough, maybe hard drinking cheerleader who likes bench pressing logs before doing pyramid support.

Characters can be quite interchangeable and different and weird and contradictory as much as human beings can be. All y

One trap that’s easy to fall into especially when you’re dealing with the main character who is the opposite sex or some other quality as opposed to the writer is to kind of play it safe and not give them too many extreme qualities that you might feel unfamiliar with. I would very much encourage writers to go off the deep end with their characters because boring characters don’t grow no matter what sex or gender they are.

Those are some really good points.
I actually went the opposite way, when you said to "go off the deep end" & try some crazy unique characters.

I had an idea for a female shapechanging superhero that left the league of justice to run a brothel for superhumans, but i never went anywhere with the concept because I am not female. I figured that i lacked the neccesary perspective to write a first person female MC, so i never went anywhere with it.

I might have been wrong on that one

People commit suicide.

If there isn't a better proof that, in the end, nurture can over come nature, I don't know what is.

In the end, there are biological tendencies, but there is no reason we can't try and ignore them. Think of it like playing a video game. You COULD go for the optimal build, but sometimes you build something just because it sounds cool, or because you are playing in a group and you want to fit in. Social pressure is a big factor.

I also think about things like that as well, nurture over nature, social constructs, culture & environment.
We humans have done some amazing things.
From a societal point of view, I HAVE to believe that people are the masters of their own destinies.

Things start to get difficult the more we understand about our own biology however. About just how much it defines us.

I dunno Eldritch God, maybe its just the edgy nihilistic worldview i hold
For spiritualists & humanists, they believe that each person is special.
For nihilists, no one is special- not even ourselves