No, seriously, what's with all the double standards when it comes to fantasy humans?

[Cipiteca396]

Those authors are just writing a caricature of people they don't like, a talking punching bag.

Isn't this exactly what you're doing? You're talking down about "authors" without giving any kind of example, treating the entire site like it's "dirty"

One of the reasons I've not been able to write recently is because I feel unclean posting on a website where these things are so popular.

and for what? To make yourself feel better than everyone else.

Have you considered that you're projecting your own thoughts onto other people? People who are actually just writing for fun, or because they genuinely hate the things they've experienced and need a way to vent?

---

Humans in these fantasy novels are meant to represent "normal people" or people that are in the "outgroup", that's why they act in cartoonishly over-the-top racist and arrogant ways, because that's how the author sees all the common people that are below them.

Ironically, the word for this is demonization. In other words, the punching bag people that you hate are almost universally called Demons, and draw on all the worst parts of humanity.
If someone uses humans for this, that's done to subvert the trope, not exploit it. It's coming from people who think, "hey, maybe an entire race shouldn't be described as universally evil." and then run into the issue that that exact thing happens in real life anyways.

And then the other races are made much stronger so that the author can satisfy their fantasy of them and the people similar to them being superior to everyone else, and being able to stomp on everyone that does not revere them the way they 'deserve'.

You're right that there's a fantasy here. Who would want to read about a race that's universally weaker and less interesting than the one they're already familiar with? Everyone wants to be better than they are. But that doesn't mean they have to be better than everybody else. That's just you projecting again.

There is no greater meaning to it. It's a trope, for cheap entertainment, easy views, and maybe some satire- as a treat.

 

[forli]

Ironically, the word for this is demonization. In other words, the punching bag people that you hate are almost universally called Demons, and draw on all the worst parts of humanity.
If someone uses humans for this, that's done to subvert the trope, not exploit it. It's coming from people who think, "hey, maybe an entire race shouldn't be described as universally evil.

Are you serious about this? Humans being evil and demons good is WAY more common in web novels than the opposite. And since when does subverting a trope mean... doing the trope straight? Subverting would be something like "this race is not as evil as you thought" Which is done all the time with demons but never with humans.

And more importantly, demons are always strong enough to pose a threat. So you don't see them being one-sidedly crushed like happens with humans all the time.

There is no greater meaning to it. It's a trope, for cheap entertainment, easy views, and maybe some satire- as a treat.

When I see a supposedly good MC killing or torturing a bunch of people that have no means to fight back and the author keeps trying to justify it while the readers call for genocide in the comments, I cannot take it as 'just a trope'.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Are you serious about this? Humans being evil and demons good is WAY more common in web novels than the opposite. And since when does subverting a trope mean... doing the trope straight? Subverting would be something like "this race is not as evil as you thought" Which is done all the time with demons but never with humans.

And more importantly, demons are always strong enough to pose a threat. So you don't see them being one-sidedly crushed like happens with humans all the time.

The trope is 'demons are evil', so a way to subvert it is to say 'demons aren't actually evil'. You can't say it's never done and then say it's done all the time and expect to make sense.
'Humans are evil' would be a subversion of 'I'm human, and I think I'm a pretty good person' (ie common sense). Trying to subvert the subversion is pointless at best...

Being strong enough to defend themselves doesn't make killing them right. And frankly, they do get one-sidedly slaughtered. They're usually just called goblins when that happens, or have to fight a summoned 'hero' for the tougher ones.

When I see a supposedly good MC killing or torturing a bunch of people that have no means to fight back and the author keeps trying to justify it while the readers call for genocide in the comments, I cannot take it as 'just a trope'.

You're still not giving examples. I've never seen what you're describing.
Maybe I just didn't read the story because it didn't appeal to me. Maybe you should do the same. Or maybe you should report it if it's genuinely that bad. And then read something else.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Are we talking about Avatar 2: The Way of Water?
It feels like we are talking about Avatar 2: The Way of Water.
Or jews. Is it jews? I'm old. I don't understand this new fangled internets you kids today use. It's a series of tubes, yes?

And why is it that when I point these things out the only way people try to defend these double standards is with the oh-so-hilarious deflection of 'I'm racist, so this is ok for me', or the meaningless edgy nonsense of 'humans suck so it's ok'?

Your avatar looks like a big titty woman was crawling through a pipe and then she got stuck so they had to pull the pipe apart and her boobs are the first thing to pop out.

I'm just saying that because it makes as much sense as what you are talking about. Like, give me an example because I am confused.

 

[forli]

I'm just saying that because it makes as much sense as what you are talking about. Like, give me an example because I am confused.

"humans do suck tho...we got lots of flaws. Even so, in most stories humans are still a dominate race regardless of their racial inferiority to species who are born naturally stronger."

"I’m an actual racist, so…"

"Well to be fair, humans are unbelievably stupid."

"because humans suck on a fundamental level duh"

Those are all real responses I got the other times I tried to point out how f***ed up the humans suck trope is.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Not like other fantasy faces are better, tho. Elves are pricks, dwarfs impolite drunks, beastpeople are furrys in denial, dragons are greedy, vandalizing pricks, vampires are cringey wannabe-actors or glorified raptists, demons are just humans but dipped in a paint bottle, and so on.

Also I'm not racist, I'm a trope-ist, so it's ok.

 

[hijauKuning]

When someone shows all humans (not some, ALL of them) as being racist and arrogant despite being inferior to the other races, there's obviously no desire there to show a nuanced or realistic portrayal of humanity. Those authors are just writing a caricature of people they don't like, a talking punching bag.

It's a caricature, yes, but it's never "humans are this," or "humans are that," but humanity in these fictions is just a set of idea. Like how Jews to Nazis, communists to religious people, etc. The people of humanity don't actually exist.

In a sense of they're being characters. all their actions, and dialogues is to give us readers a certain image of what the author intent for us to see. Sometimes, it's as simple as those authors just hate humanity and all that. In this case, there's nothing we can do.

To answer your thread question, those fictions are under the scope of "we humans can do better." There's no fear of some community would get superiority complex from what they read of these fictions. Why? Simple, because elves don't exist, dwarves don't exist, dragons don't exist, hobbits don't exist, orcs don't exist, and all those fantastical creatures. Are we going to complain racism against people who don't exist now? I know by this point you already know, but all these fictional races are also caricatures of their own. WE DON'T SEE ELVES EXACERBATING GLOBAL WARMING IN WRITINGS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T DO IT. You know who enslave, genocide, and done all that horrible acts? Humans. You want to see humans saving us from elven genocide? That's WEAK. That's like, demonizing people who don't exist.

Perhaps you just want to read fantasy stories where authors don't do these caricatures. But it's something too good to be pass. Especially when you can already exaggerate irl humans' good qualities in fictional races.

 

[AiLovesToGrow]

Monsters are metaphors. They are the best of us or they are the worst of us. Humanity is the best AND worst of us.

To prop up other races in fiction as better than humans is to lose sight of what a metaphor is. Elves, fairies, na’vi, they will always lack depth because humans are all of them, reflecting through a mirror darkly.