Writing Prompt Obscure real-world cultures/settings for an Isekai

[CupcakeNinja]

I'm not saying not to consider Earth as basis for familiarity. I mean social/cultural progression can't be the same in a usual fantasy setting. It branches since tribal times if not before that.
Comedy is more permissive as the objective is not immersion but the funny situations, and a completely alien culture would have different jokes/humor.

btw, what happened to the colors, Your Holyness?

For slavs it'd actually be 'easier' since we have fantasy settings of slav culture in popular media. Especially the best RPG ever done, The Witcher 3.

I dont use colors as much If I'm on my phone. Or if i dont make very long comments. That last comment was on my phone, so yeah.

 

[Jemini]

Well, it took us around 4-5000 years from the forming of the first civilisation to the start of industrial revolution, with progress comparatively slow in that period, and I would argue that high convenience and abduance of magic would make this even slower, as magitech would be largely considered unnecessary, superfluous.

Err... Ok, actually, there are more than a few problems with this.

First off, it took 4-5000 years from the time of the earliest recorded piece of writing. Thus, entering us into what is referred to as the historical age. Everything before the historical age is the "pre-historic age." The dividing line between history and pre-history is literally just that, the earliest date at which writing existed.

"Civilization" existed during the pre-historic era. Archiological sites have verified this. There are even underwater stone structures that, according to most popular theories at this time, had to have been built during the last ice-age in 11,000 BC in order to have been submerged in the way that they were. For all we know, writing might have even existed in those 13,000 year old cities (add the AD time to the BC time) but it was just destroyed. Although, that is just speculation. We have no way of knowing for certain.

This does bring up a significant point though. Something people always seem to discount is the disaster that sets back civilization. In the case of these sunken cities, the disaster would have been the melting of the polar ice when the ice-age ended. All the costal cities were sunken, thus displacing their populations and massively setting back their technological advancements.

Such similar events would have happened repeatedly throughout the historical era as well. Technology advances, and then some disaster causes it to be set back. What is called "the dark ages" refers to a period in which technology and science take such a back-slide as the "light" of advancement goes dark for a period of time.

Technology and science do not only advance. They can also back-slide. The event that allowed us to finally approach the industrial revolution was global travel and communication, courtesy of the shipbuilding technology in Europe, and in particular from the Portuguese navigation experts that advanced the technologies behind world travel to such an extent. The subsequent development of the East India trading company marked the first time technology could be shared around the world, thus causing it to become more resilient to disastrous back-sliding.

If we mark the imperviousness gained from that one particular piece of technology as the starting line after which we hit the critical mass for the technological singularity, it was only a few hundred years from there until the industrial revolution. Thus, from the moment human knowledge was no longer subject to back-sliding, it actually began advancing rather quickly, and then from there it only kept on and kept on gaining momentum.

 

[DesiRable]

Well tbh, I think a couple of Isekai do have some other cultures based on the real world aside from what you stated, just that they're delegated to a desert arc XD.
What makes me wonder is how little magic plays a part, with magic there should be a sort of "magical industrialization", in a lot of high fantasy magic can easily replicate modern utilities, so magical civs should have specced into them. (Creating fire from mana or whatever is a great renewable source of energy). Widely-used magic should spark an industrial revolution tbh.

Depends a lot upon the types of magic you're talking about, and just how magic works. For instance, in a world in which magic is and always has been real, including ritual magics of the kind developed by tribal shamans, how much less impetus would there be to advance beyond Stone Age levels of development, and to transition from a nomadic hunter-gatherer society to a sedentary agricultural society in the first place? And with that in mind, what need would there be to replicate modern utilities in a world with little to no incentive for urbanization, or centralization? Even more so, in a world where magic is widely utilizable by most people, effectively facilitating a post-scarcity society at a far earlier stage of technological development?

 

[Jemini]

Yeah that is true. That being said if someone were to try this, their world building might suck a bit at start (and getting carried by med europe at first coz that is where the start is) but like after a few arcs, there world building would genuinely improve a lot.

I also just realized Avatar is similarly a story about a journey and expecting something like that might be a bit too much >.>

That being said in my silk road premise, I would probably add some fantasy, low magic elements and mythological demons/gods/creatures/stuff - probably an bastardized representation of them. Add some economics and action, sprinkle in some good ol' harem (or not?) and you are golden ~

Avitar, Mushoku Tensei, Final Fantasy X, Lord of the Rings, and you could even sort of argue Star Wars is such a story. Also, let's not forget about Star Treck, a series that literally has that as it's entire premise. It's a space-age journey story, with their premise for the journey just being that they are an exploration vessel.

And also, I named Final Fantasy X specifically because it was a game made with the journey as a premise and thus it really put in some effort to try to design each location to be unique. But if you really consider it, almost every JRPG ever made has a weaker form of this premise. Compared to FFX, they tend to have somewhat weaker world-building with some rather generic towns and cities showing up on occasion, but those are only a few low points. Even the games that have low-points also have some locations that are real gems. (This quality applies more to the 3D era. Most places felt rather generic in the 16 bit era, with only a few exceptions such as the Seken Densetsu series. The Final Fantasy games of the 16 bit era were most certainly not of this world-building quality though.)

(The tales-of series tends to be pretty good in the world-building regard.)

Really, if you stop to consider it, several of the most famous cultural phenomenons of story telling have been journey stories with god-tier world building. And I DO want to emphasize that god-tier world building aspect, because it cannot fall short if you want to get this effect. But, if you do have the skill, evidence in the form of past successes has shown that the very best stories in the world only need 2 elements to succeed. 1. World building. 2. Strong and distinct characters.

If you have those two things both at absolute god-tier, you can almost just laze out on all the other aspects of story telling. All you need is some form of minimal plot to keep the cast moving on their journey, and just enough conflict to keep things interesting. But, once you have the 2 most critical ingredients, you can really just use any old excuse to cover the rest of the bases. (And, for the most part, the excuse you use for your paper-thin plot will actually have itself enhanced by the characters and world-building.)

Spoiler: Using Mushoku Tensei as an example... spoilers

If you think about it, one of the absolute slowest and dullest arcs in Mushoku Tensei was the school arc. This is the arc where Rudie stopped his journey and he was staying in one place for 2 books worth of time. In fact, it was the 2nd book of the school arc where the reader really started to feel how slow things had suddenly become. Things were tolerable when it was 1 book worth of staying in one place, but as soon as it went on for 2 is where things started to wear thin. The story picked up again though when he got himself kicked out of that happy comfortable place and the road started calling to him again.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Depends a lot upon the types of magic you're talking about, and just how magic works. For instance, in a world in which magic is and always has been real, including ritual magics of the kind developed by tribal shamans, how much less impetus would there be to advance beyond Stone Age levels of development, and to transition from a nomadic hunter-gatherer society to a sedentary agricultural society in the first place? And with that in mind, what need would there be to replicate modern utilities in a world with little to no incentive for urbanization, or centralization? Even more so, in a world where magic is widely utilizable by most people, effectively facilitating a post-scarcity society at a far earlier stage of technological development?

Hmm, I suppose you are right with the fact that magic from the get-go will really stump development if people can just do rituals to get food. As for the post-scarcity society, I do believe that magic will still advance because people will get bored having unlimited resources to throw around, heck maybe some mages will create a pocket universe to play around with, would make a good backstory for a world.

 

[Ddraig]

Really, if you stop to consider it, several of the most famous cultural phenomenons of story telling have been journey stories with god-tier world building. And I DO want to emphasize that god-tier world building aspect, because it cannot fall short if you want to get this effect. But, if you do have the skill, evidence in the form of past successes has shown that the very best stories in the world only need 2 elements to succeed. 1. World building. 2. Strong and distinct characters.

If you have those two things both at absolute god-tier, you can almost just laze out on all the other aspects of story telling. All you need is some form of minimal plot to keep the cast moving on their journey, and just enough conflict to keep things interesting. But, once you have the 2 most critical ingredients, you can really just use any old excuse to cover the rest of the bases. (And, for the most part, the excuse you use for your paper-thin plot will actually have itself enhanced by the characters and world-building.)

I do agree, great world building is something that will draw me as a reader in no matter what but I sort of also do think that one aspect of world building is the short sidestories and side character's progress and stuff going around. Your main plot can be just like some decent cliche like hero vs demon or something but the sidestories/subplots need to well done or atleast make your world feel real and alive if you get my point? Like it should exist beyond your main chars actions and stuff.

And also, I named Final Fantasy X specifically because it was a game made with the journey as a premise and thus it really put in some effort to try to design each location to be unique. But if you really consider it, almost every JRPG ever made has a weaker form of this premise. Compared to FFX, they tend to have somewhat weaker world-building with some rather generic towns and cities showing up on occasion, but those are only a few low points. Even the games that have low-points also have some locations that are real gems.

I definitely see your point that it even prominent in games. (Then again, when it comes to journey and world building, I would have said Trails series as THE world building jrpg over FFX but FFX is still a great example >.>)

My sort of inspiration for the premise was something between Mushoku Tensei and Spice and Wolf but like set in a premise super close to real history.

Err... Ok, actually, there are more than a few problems with this.

First off, it took 4-5000 years from the time of the earliest recorded piece of writing. Thus, entering us into what is referred to as the historical age. Everything before the historical age is the "pre-historic age." The dividing line between history and pre-history is literally just that, the earliest date at which writing existed.

"Civilization" existed during the pre-historic era. Archiological sites have verified this. There are even underwater stone structures that, according to most popular theories at this time, had to have been built during the last ice-age in 11,000 BC in order to have been submerged in the way that they were. For all we know, writing might have even existed in those 13,000 year old cities (add the AD time to the BC time) but it was just destroyed. Although, that is just speculation. We have no way of knowing for certain.

This does bring up a significant point though. Something people always seem to discount is the disaster that sets back civilization. In the case of these sunken cities, the disaster would have been the melting of the polar ice when the ice-age ended. All the costal cities were sunken, thus displacing their populations and massively setting back their technological advancements.

Such similar events would have happened repeatedly throughout the historical era as well. Technology advances, and then some disaster causes it to be set back. What is called "the dark ages" refers to a period in which technology and science take such a back-slide as the "light" of advancement goes dark for a period of time.

Technology and science do not only advance. They can also back-slide. The event that allowed us to finally approach the industrial revolution was global travel and communication, courtesy of the shipbuilding technology in Europe, and in particular from the Portuguese navigation experts that advanced the technologies behind world travel to such an extent. The subsequent development of the East India trading company marked the first time technology could be shared around the world, thus causing it to become more resilient to disastrous back-sliding.

If we mark the imperviousness gained from that one particular piece of technology as the starting line after which we hit the critical mass for the technological singularity, it was only a few hundred years from there until the industrial revolution. Thus, from the moment human knowledge was no longer subject to back-sliding, it actually began advancing rather quickly, and then from there it only kept on and kept on gaining momentum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cycle_theory ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time#Indian_religions ?

Besides this pattern repeats not just on civilization level but even on a species level. Basic example but dinos -> meteor -> other stuff -> hoomans.

Can be true on universal level too if we were to believe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model

Also I guess this is one part of SMT Nocturne's premise.

 

[DesiRable]

> Implying humans think about future consequences ever before doing stuff
> And no, magic or not, progress occurs ~

Well, he was the one who stated in the first reply of this thread that:

'Industrial civilization' doesn't directly translate into rampant capitalism and environmental contamination. That's how it went for us because we only had coal and stuff to make things work.

I was just pointing out that rampant capitalism and environmental contamination could easily befall a magical world as well, even without fossil fuel reliance to make things work. And that you could easily wind up with a relatively dystopian society either way.

Would love to see a maya/slav/Hindu/African sort of isekai but obv that wouldn’t be as popular

Regarding an African-inspired sort of Isekai, one of the more obscure real-world cultures/civilizations which I feel could provide a great template/basis for an Isekai setting was the medieval Igbo Kingdom of Nri, in modern-day SE Nigeria- a religio-polity ruled by an elected priest-king (/pseudo-Pope) known as the eze Nri, a divine ruler who held ritual and mystic (but not military) power. And the Kingdom of Nri maintained its hold over its settlements, and expanded further into new territories, not through military force, but by employing a class of missionary priest-nobles, known as the Ikénga, to obtain them by ritual oath (which would doubtless be a far more practical and workable option in a magical fantasy world, where magically binding oaths actually worked). The Nri state religion, Odanini, preached the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient supreme deity, whose being encompassed the entirety of creation. They believed that 'The Light', Anyanwu, was the symbol of perfection that all people should aspire to, and that Agbala, the collective spirit of all holy beings (human and non-human alike, transcending religion, culture and gender), was entrusted to lead them there.

And in all of West Africa, it was the only region where slavery was explicitly forbidden; from the rule of the 10th eze Nri onwards (in the 12th century), all slaves who set foot on Nri soil were considered free. The Nri had a taboo symbolic code, with the rules regarding these taboos used to educate and govern Nri's subjects. One of the core tenets of their belief system was religious pacifism, rooted in a belief that violence was an abomination which polluted the earth. Instead, the eze Nri, and his representatives, the Ikénga, could declare a form of excommunication against those who violated specific taboos (such as owning or trading slaves)- isolating entire communities via this form of ritual siege, resulting in their impoverishment and starvation, given that the nobility also controlled the means for agriculture (in essence, comparable to the imposition of blockades and/or sanctions- and one can easily imagine how much more effective this sort of system might be in a magical world, in which tangible magical barriers, taboos and/or curses could be reliably enforced, or where people could potentially even be 'excommunicated'/incarcerated within the equivalent of a bag of holding).

The Kingdom of Nri maintained its vast authority well into the 16th century, with the peace mandated by the Nri religion and enforced by the presence of the Mbùríchi (merchant nobility), allowing free trade, both internal and external, to flourish. In Nri, as in Igbo society in general, there were strong social pressures toward individual distinction, and people could move upward through successive grades by demonstrating their achievements and their generosity. One of the traditional representations of this was the Ikénga- that part of oneself enabling personal achievement, which people were nominated and elected to on the basis of their accomplishments and perceived character. Cult figures/heroes (revered in a manner akin to saints or minor deities) represented the pinnacle of distinction, and the relative lack of overall centralization among the Igbo-speaking peoples facilitated the development of a wide variety of local art styles and cultural practices within this framework. Ironworking, in particular, increasingly rose to prominence during the Kingdom of Nri's height of power- with Ogun, the god of iron, becoming an increasingly important deity, especially for the other more militaristic Igbo Kingdoms, credited with introducing iron as well as being the first hunter and warrior, the opener of roads, clearer of fields, and founder of dynasties.

The iron sword of Ogun, a central symbolic motif, is still associated with both civilizing and aggressive actions. And iron had significant ritual status across the entirety of Igboland, in which the forge functioned as both a ritual shrine and sanctuary (paralleling the honden in Japanese Shinto Shrines), and the anvil was often also used for the taking of an oath or as a sacrificial altar. Ironworking was believed to demand great proximity to supernatural powers (something which would undoubtedly be veritably true and accurate in a world where magical crafting existed), and thus smiths were both admired and feared. Across West Africa, forges and their resident mystical spirits (akin to the Japanese Shinto concept of 'kami') are invariably considered to be female, and the act of smelting iron is equated to the gestation period. Thus the male smith is also known as the “husband of the forge” (a good set-up for a magical crafting/blacksmithing harem protagonist, perhaps?), and whilst though women are involved in many aspects of the metallurgic process, they almost never work the forge. The Bamana staff, or ceremonial spear, was another good example of the type of object produced by these blacksmiths, as early as the 13th century- publicly these were simply called “iron women”, often carried by those who had purchased an important village title, or who were of high rank (marking the status of members of the Order of the Ikénga), and many possessed sacred names.

To this day in Igboland, these can still be commissioned by members of either the Jo or Gwan initiation associations, to be placed in the ground around altars in the sacred groves or in shrine houses; and farther afield, in regions culturally influenced by their legacy, similar staffs are still presented to young men at the conclusion of their initiations and as part of circumcision rituals. As spears were the primary weapons used for both war and hunting before the introduction of guns (and as they're also deemed to be intrinsically female, with those spears/staffs which accumulate enough mystical energy- either via their role as a conduit for the wielder's projection of magical power, and/or through the use of offerings during ritual ceremonies, performed on the anvil-altars in the forge-shrines by the blacksmiths/shrine-masters themselves- believed to awaken their ability to manifest as spirit-beings in their own right, in a manner akin to the 'loli magic sword' trope), they continue to be considered an important symbol of manhood. The highly specialized skills of ironworkers were so prized that such artisans were often itinerant and moved where they were needed, or even traveled with armies into battle, often as members of larger, organized 'blacksmith's guilds' (presenting a real-world historical analogue/alternative to the 'adventurers guilds'/magicians guilds' imagined in many fantasy settings).

However, the Kingdom of Nri fell into decline and its eventual demise because, in the end, it proved too idealistic to cope with the pressures and demands of the outside world. Ultimately, it had no way to protect the freedom of its people, either from infringing slave states or from the British slave traders when they came to claim their share of the Atlantic Slave Trade; in the end, when faced with profiteering adversaries over whom their faith had no influence whatsoever (with no actual magical power to back it up), their strict adherence to their no-violence policy inevitably led to their downfall. If you think about it though, wouldn't the existence of magic, and/or the existence of actual spirits and deities, in the setting of a magical fantasy Isekai world, make it a lot easier and more plausible for any kingdom and/or empire to impose its power and expand its territories by employing a system of religious pacifism akin to that of the Igbo Kingdom of Nri? And wouldn't the social hierarchy in an magical Isekai world (with magical rituals, magical crafting and magical spirits, in which people's ability to cast magic and wield magical tools/weapons is unequal, and individual distinction is paramount) be far more likely to resemble their historical society than most others? What do you reckon?

 

[Ddraig]

I was just pointing out that rampant capitalism and environmental contamination could easily befall a magical world as well, even without fossil fuel reliance to make things work. And that you could easily wind up with a relatively dystopian society either way.

It very well can but it is not the only future option for a magic civ, we can very much have an alternate and hopefully much more interesting world building and future for a magical society depending on what the author has established already.

 

[Cipiteca396]

What do you reckon

Normally that would be plausible, but it also depends. In real life, people used religion as an excuse to go to war. In a fantasy setting where gods and the like actually exist, they may stop their followers from going to war and protect them. Or they may act like literally every other god ever and encourage chaos and war for their own amusement.

Regarding the topic, I rather agree with Kusa. I think it would be more interesting to see a world designed from the ground up with magic in mind.

Failing that, you can basically just throw a dart at a map, and anything that doesn't land in Europe, Egypt or southeast Asia is fair game.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

Think about all of the extra factors, though. Can everyone use magic equally, or can only a share of the population wield it? How controlled is the use and tutelage of magic? How does this affect social mobility as a result? Which religious beliefs and taboos are there concerning magic, and/or magitech- is it deemed heretical and/or sacrilegious? Are there 'Dark Arts' which are forbidden from being explored or used due to moral/ethical concerns- how much potential is there for a particular branch of magical technology to be abused and misused, and does this magical society have any laws in place to curtail such abuse and misuse?

Take your "solar panels or something that absorbs ambient magic", for example- if it does so actively, and magic is not limitlessly abundant and available, then couldn't this magitech wind up permanently depleting and draining all of the magic in a given radius, including the ambient magic possessed by all of the people unfortunate enough to be within its area of effect? Perhaps even permanently depleting all of the magic in the entire world over time? Couldn't the environmental fallout and health risks caused by this sort of magitech wind up being far greater and more damaging than the use of fossil fuel and/or nuclear weapons IRL?

What are you on about? All those questions are answered the moment you decide what magic is in your world. Human impact is not that big unless you're burning everything down. Nature balances itself, and magic can be more than just a finite thing. Treat it like air, 7 billion people breath it every second of every day, and we're not running out because it's part of a natural cycle. Who put the idea that mana is static and finite and outside nature in your mind? Why would it run out if people, machinery, monsters, or even nature spends it.

What laws? The most obvious social foundations any mortal creature can come up with: don't kill, share, don't shit on food. Shamanistic rituals? Taboo magic? Who is to say their religion promotes progress instead? Why do you default religion to a decrepit and festering mindset that halts advancements?
Why is every point you bring up a detractor? It's easy to solve that, because it's not our world and things just don't happen the same.
Shit, they may use giant rhinoceros beetles to help farming, and have a magitech lamp in their homes at the same time. Technology is not restrictive or absolute in its existance, because it's meant to make life easier.
Before you try to police something, decide how it works. If "blood rituals" can't exist, or are a medicinal ritual, why ban them? If necromancy is the communion with the dead, instead of raising skeletons(lmao), why ban it? If mind control magic is crucial in the treatment of mental issues, adding a difficulty level on top, who would care enough to commit evil with it considering magically stronger people can't be affected? Why would fantasy people, who live and breathe magic, have any issue whatsoever with magical practice if it has benefits? There's a country in our world where every citizen has the right to own firearms, an object that can instantly kill a person if they so desire. That has been so for a pretty long time.
Why would there be a religion in the first place? Do actual gods not exist? Why would fantasy people buy Jesus' party tricks?

 

[SailusGebel]

Why would fantasy people buy Jesus' party tricks?

The answer is obvious. The dude turns water into wine.

 

[InfantryTerminator]

Slavic mythology is a good candidate, however it's very hard to find anything about it if you're not Polish. Most things you can find are spin offs, and only Witcher is the closest to the original.

In world of Witcher humans at first were hiding behind thick walls, criminals were locked outside of city and eaten by monsters, and each location needed to be taken over by an army. Humanity slowly started whipping out the monsters, and professions like witchers went from swimming in gold to almost extinct profession that people hate or are afraid of.

Fairly realistic worldbuilding if you ask me

 

[SailusGebel]

Slavic mythology is a good candidate, however it's very hard to find anything about it if you're not Polish. Most things you can find are spin offs, and only Witcher is the closest to the original.

In world of Witcher humans at first were hiding behind thick walls, criminals were locked outside of city and eaten by monsters, and each location needed to be taken over by an army. Humanity slowly started whipping out the monsters, and professions like witchers went from swimming in gold to almost extinct profession that people hate or are afraid of.

Fairly realistic worldbuilding if you ask me

I heard an opinion that Witcher isn't much of a Slavic fantasy. The very reason why everyone thinks of Witcher as a Slavic fantasy is because of Polonization. It's not my opinion, though, and I'm not defending this opinion. I agree that a Slavic fantasy is extremely rare. But as you said, if you aren't slav, you probably won't be able to write one.

 

[InfantryTerminator]

I heard an opinion that Witcher isn't much of a Slavic fantasy. The very reason why everyone thinks of Witcher as a Slavic fantasy is because of Polonization. It's not my opinion, though, and I'm not defending this opinion. I agree that a Slavic fantasy is extremely rare. But as you said, if you aren't slav, you probably won't be able to write one.

Its based on it. The actual slavic mythology is about conflict two gods: one that existed since start of the time and another one born out of his reflection. I can TLDR it if you want

 

[SailusGebel]

Its based on it. The actual slavic mythology is about conflict two gods: one that existed since start of the time and another one born out of his reflection. I can TLDR it if you want

Nah, no need.

 

[SakeVision]

Its based on it. The actual slavic mythology is about conflict two gods: one that existed since start of the time and another one born out of his reflection. I can TLDR it if you want

The actual slavic mythology is extremely similar to nordic, including main god throwing lighting from the sky; however there is a shitload of folklore that developed over time in rural villages, often alongside Christianity