SoulsBorn Lit

[JHY]

I'd like to read people's thoughts on this idea.

Being a gamer, I get a lot of inspiration for storytelling from video games. Other than Closer Than We Thought, every story I'm posting here is heavily inspired by a specific game. I got to thinking about how Dark Souls stands out for its unconventional story telling and have been studying Miyazaki's techniqes with the intent of adapting them to the writing medium. What do ya'all think of this? Good idea/bad idea? Can you think of any books that do what I'm trying? Anyone else trying this? I can't wait to hear (read) what people think.

 

[Anon2024]

It would be very hard to make a written story of a game. The reason story telling in games works the way it does is because the player is playing a character. A game is a medium itself and it's a lot easier to tell a simple story through a game than through a book.

Well, depends on how you write it. The Dark Apocalyptic setting can be taken but the way it's written or the way information is given to the reader has to be different.

 

[SailusGebel]

Bad idea.

 

[Poleg]

I'd like to read people's thoughts on this idea.

Being a gamer, I get a lot of inspiration for storytelling from video games. Other than Closer Than We Thought, every story I'm posting here is heavily inspired by a specific game. I got to thinking about how Dark Souls stands out for its unconventional story telling and have been studying Miyazaki's techniqes with the intent of adapting them to the writing medium. What do ya'all think of this? Good idea/bad idea? Can you think of any books that do what I'm trying? Anyone else trying this? I can't wait to hear (read) what people think.

It is possible and I heard of a book that came out that should be like dark souls and pretty good( I haven't read it yet so this is Just hearsay), but you would have to be skilled and knowledgeable to write that.

 

[ChrisLensman]

I think it could work. If you read interviews with Hidetaka Miyazaki you quickly find out that 'difficulty' and 'obtuse storytelling' aren't really what these games are about. They're elements these games have but not elements they're based on. These games are, first and foremost, about the joy of exploration, the joy of overcoming challenges and about solving the mysteries of the world. They are difficult not to annoy you but to make you act cautiously but also confidently, to make you pay attention to the small details and then to use those observations to gain an advantage.

In a lot of ways, that's what any fantasy adventure story is all about.
I would also argue that the leveling system in the Souls games can be seen as an abstraction of a cultivation system but that's another topic entirely.

So in the end, any fantasy adventure with a dark tone could be considered a Souls-like, but if you want to reference the ideas of Dark Souls more than the themes of Dark Souls then I think you'll need to go full LitRPG, with resurrection mechanics and currency loss.

 

[JHY]

I think it could work. If you read interviews with Hidetaka Miyazaki you quickly find out that 'difficulty' and 'obtuse storytelling' aren't really what these games are about. They're elements these games have but not elements they're based on. These games are, first and foremost, about the joy of exploration, the joy of overcoming challenges and about solving the mysteries of the world. They are difficult not to annoy you but to make you act cautiously but also confidently, to make you pay attention to the small details and then to use those observations to gain an advantage.

In a lot of ways, that's what any fantasy adventure story is all about.
I would also argue that the leveling system in the Souls games can be seen as an abstraction of a cultivation system but that's another topic entirely.

So in the end, any fantasy adventure with a dark tone could be considered a Souls-like, but if you want to reference the ideas of Dark Souls more than the themes of Dark Souls then I think you'll need to go full LitRPG, with resurrection mechanics and currency loss.

Awesome points. Difficulty is definitely over hyped, ong with obscurity. Both arw great if they're used purposefully but exhausting if they're there for the sake of being there. I think what appeals to me most is the level of thought FromSoft puts into their environments. They give clues to the story and have details with symbolic meaning. I also like the use of lonliness and depression. Most people think of grimdark tropes when they think of a Souls game, but there is also a pervailing melencholy that is mentioned a lot less, along with their dream-like aspects. As far as ressurection goes, in my story Erebus I found a way to accomplish that without making it a Litrpg. I don't mean to poop in anyone's cereal, but Litrpgs aren't my thing. But I like the thematic potential of a character who can't die, especially if they want to.

It is possible and I heard of a book that came out that should be like dark souls and pretty good( I haven't read it yet so this is Just hearsay), but you would have to be skilled and knowledgeable to write that.

Agreed. It takes a lot more work and thought put into peripheral details. You gotta find ways of hinting at the majority of the story while keeping the main action interesting.

It would be very hard to make a written story of a game. The reason story telling in games works the way it does is because the player is playing a character. A game is a medium itself and it's a lot easier to tell a simple story through a game than through a book.

Well, depends on how you write it. The Dark Apocalyptic setting can be taken but the way it's written or the way information is given to the reader has to be different.

Yeah Im not thinking of writing a game so much as learning from the story telling methods used in making those particular games. Using enviromental details, minimal exposition, etc. And I agree that what works in a game doesn't work in a book, so the challenge is in figuring out how to adapt the methods to a form that works in writing.

 

[BearlyAlive]

So you want to adapt an almost narrative-less game with 100% optional lore into a narrative-driven medium? That's a challenge.

Unless you want to go the gritty grimdark totally-not-berzerk way but with an 'unkillable' protagonist. Then it's just edgy teen writing

 

[TotallyHuman]

Try it, why not

 

[JHY]

So you want to adapt an almost narrative-less game with 100% optional lore into a narrative-driven medium? That's a challenge.

Unless you want to go the gritty grimdark totally-not-berzerk way but with an 'unkillable' protagonist. Then it's just edgy teen writing

Edgy teen writing. Yuk lol. I'm thinking on a more, I dunno, technique level? What intrigues me about the Souls games is how many alternatives to exposition it uses. They actually have very rich and developed narratives, but unconventional delivery, so I like the idea of there being more to a story than one might think. As far as tone goes, like I said earlier, I think the sadness and loneliness of Souls games elevates it above edgelord grimdark status, and I think that could work for a novel really well.

Try it, why not

I actually have a complete first draft of my souls lit experiment. It's called Erebus. If you take a peek at it, lemme know what u think.

 

[georgelee5786]

Bad idea.

What Sailus said

It's called Erebus

warhammer 40k flashbacks

 

[Lloyd]

Just do it

 

[JHY]

I’ve noticed the nay sayers don’t offer any reasons why. I’m curious to know what would make it a bad idea.

 

[SailusGebel]

Three reasons. First is what Anon said. Games and fiction writing are way too different. Second, Miyazaki was inspired by Berserk, so you should probably read it and analyze it in addition to SoulsBorn. Third, you've probably watched too many VaatiVidya videos. Okay, this was a joke, no offense meant. The actual third reason, and kinda the main one, Miyazaki isn't the one who made SoulsBorn so great, cool, successful, and so on. It was a work of a team. Yes, Miyazaki is a poster boy of FromSoftware; he is the face of SoulsBorn, but how much work he actually puts in and how many ideas he actually pitches are left unknown. So trying to do a work of a whole team alone, moreover trying to use what worked for a game in writing is such a monumental task, I simply can't see this working out. Obviously, I can't and won't hold you back from doing it, but you've asked for an opinion, and I answered.

 

[JHY]

Three reasons. First is what Anon said. Games and fiction writing are way too different. Second, Miyazaki was inspired by Berserk, so you should probably read it and analyze it in addition to SoulsBorn. Third, you've probably watched too many VaatiVidya videos. Okay, this was a joke, no offense meant. The actual third reason, and kinda the main one, Miyazaki isn't the one who made SoulsBorn so great, cool, successful, and so on. It was a work of a team. Yes, Miyazaki is a poster boy of FromSoftware; he is the face of SoulsBorn, but how much work he actually puts in and how many ideas he actually pitches are left unknown. So trying to do a work of a whole team alone, moreover trying to use what worked for a game in writing is such a monumental task, I simply can't see this working out. Obviously, I can't and won't hold you back from doing it, but you've asked for an opinion, and I answered.

No offense taken. And while I like Vaati, he’s my least favorite Souls youtuber because he just rehashes plot points. I totally agree that what works for a game won’t work in a book if applied directly. That is definitely a bad idea. What I’m talking about is examining the story telling techniques that made those games so vivid and unique and developing literary equivalents. And true, the games were made by teams, not just one guy. However, as director, his decisions on what to approve or deny ultimately determined the feel and impact they had, so his mindset is what I’m examining. But thanks for taking the time to elaborate. Counterpoints have a lot of value.

Three reasons. First is what Anon said. Games and fiction writing are way too different. Second, Miyazaki was inspired by Berserk, so you should probably read it and analyze it in addition to SoulsBorn. Third, you've probably watched too many VaatiVidya videos. Okay, this was a joke, no offense meant. The actual third reason, and kinda the main one, Miyazaki isn't the one who made SoulsBorn so great, cool, successful, and so on. It was a work of a team. Yes, Miyazaki is a poster boy of FromSoftware; he is the face of SoulsBorn, but how much work he actually puts in and how many ideas he actually pitches are left unknown. So trying to do a work of a whole team alone, moreover trying to use what worked for a game in writing is such a monumental task, I simply can't see this working out. Obviously, I can't and won't hold you back from doing it, but you've asked for an opinion, and I answered.

More on the point you made of doing the work of a whole team, bro, you’re right. I’ve had to remind myself that many a time, that I’m only one person and can’t do the same amount of research a whole team can. Also, I’m limited as to how much attention I can pay to small details.

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

Right off the bat, it feels and sounds like it'll be a railway-shooter experience.

MC goes on an adventure and gets told everything at convenient times. So, a basic power fantasy. Where everything just happens. Just with a dash of really cool worldbuilding in-between.

The other is having a murder-mystery type of story style with an action-adventure backdrop. To make the lore dumps feel more organic.

 

[Lloyd]

Three reasons. First is what Anon said. Games and fiction writing are way too different. Second, Miyazaki was inspired by Berserk, so you should probably read it and analyze it in addition to SoulsBorn. Third, you've probably watched too many VaatiVidya videos. Okay, this was a joke, no offense meant. The actual third reason, and kinda the main one, Miyazaki isn't the one who made SoulsBorn so great, cool, successful, and so on. It was a work of a team. Yes, Miyazaki is a poster boy of FromSoftware; he is the face of SoulsBorn, but how much work he actually puts in and how many ideas he actually pitches are left unknown. So trying to do a work of a whole team alone, moreover trying to use what worked for a game in writing is such a monumental task, I simply can't see this working out. Obviously, I can't and won't hold you back from doing it, but you've asked for an opinion, and I answered.

You are wrong. A soulsborn novel would be very easy. It would be almost episodic, MC meets someone, he helps them, they die, over and over again for about 100 chapters. Then, finally, the overarching plot comes to fruition and the MC kills some really big monster / god thing. The end.

 

[SailusGebel]

You are wrong. A soulsborn novel would be very easy. It would be almost episodic, MC meets someone, he helps them, they die, over and over again for about 100 chapters. Then, finally, the overarching plot comes to fruition and the MC kills some really big monster / god thing. The end.

BASED.

 

[AliceShiki]

Souls games have a very simplistic and barebones story that doesn't really pull anybody's attention.

They also have a rich lore that is shown on item descriptions and the like.

In writing, you don't make a lore, you make a story. You're by default doing the exact opposite of what Souls games do, which is making a pathetically weak story with a strong background lore that players will only find if they go out of their way to do so.

You can try it if you want, but you'll need a miracle to get people interested in an underwhelming story with rich lore underneath it, when you're writing a story and not lore. This works on Souls games because they're gameplay-focused, with the story as more of an add-on, and the lore as a cute extra background thingy for the people that care about it (and the majority of the people playing those games do not care about this lore).

Well, you're writing, not making a game. You can't have nice gameplay attracting people, so you don't really have the thing that attracts 95% of the people playing Souls games... What you're left with is the idea of making people go out of their way to find your lore, and a really underwhelming storyline that you'll tell people.

I really don't see how that would work, but... If you wanna try it, go ahead.

 

[JHY]

Right off the bat, it feels and sounds like it'll be a railway-shooter experience.

MC goes on an adventure and gets told everything at convenient times. So, a basic power fantasy. Where everything just happens. Just with a dash of really cool worldbuilding in-between.

The other is having a murder-mystery type of story style with an action-adventure backdrop. To make the lore dumps feel more organic.

Honestly, those both sound like books I’d like to read. What I’ve done with my experiment in this is determine how much each character knows, what they don’t want the MC to know, or how much they have reason to reveal, along with how much the MC is interested and will actually retain, then made a setting that’s bleak and oppressive.

Souls games have a very simplistic and barebones story that doesn't really pull anybody's attention.

They also have a rich lore that is shown on item descriptions and the like.

In writing, you don't make a lore, you make a story. You're by default doing the exact opposite of what Souls games do, which is making a pathetically weak story with a strong background lore that players will only find if they go out of their way to do so.

You can try it if you want, but you'll need a miracle to get people interested in an underwhelming story with rich lore underneath it, when you're writing a story and not lore. This works on Souls games because they're gameplay-focused, with the story as more of an add-on, and the lore as a cute extra background thingy for the people that care about it (and the majority of the people playing those games do not care about this lore).

Well, you're writing, not making a game. You can't have nice gameplay attracting people, so you don't really have the thing that attracts 95% of the people playing Souls games... What you're left with is the idea of making people go out of their way to find your lore, and a really underwhelming storyline that you'll tell people.

I really don't see how that would work, but... If you wanna try it, go ahead.

If you’re curious to see my attempt, check my profile and look at Erebus. I managed to avoid having an underdeveloped plot.

 

[Gryphon]

Pretty much any idea can work in literature if executed well and the right audience reads it. There's a few aspects to souls games that they all have in common with their storytelling that you should be aware of before attempting this

1: The lore of the story and the motives for characters within the game's are usually found within item descriptions or environmental storytelling.

2: The actual story of the game's themselves are usually pretty simple. DS1 is just ring the two bells then collect the four lord souls to rekindle the first flame. I haven't played DS2 so I don't know much except that the game just revolves around breaking the undead curse that leads to reviving after death. DS3 is pretty much the same as the first game only this time with much more dread and melancholy and the lack of bells. BB is to kill an infant God to stop the hunt. Sekiro is to save the Divine Heir then sever the immortal oath. ER is to reach the Great Erdtree and become Elden Lord.

3: You'd have to figure out how to write about the death mechanic while still managing to give risks and the sense of urgency to the characters. If you want an example of how its done well, watch or read Re:Zero. There's two seasons of the anime and the main character's power is to revive at a random save point after death so its probably the best reference of the video game death mechanic you can see.

These three things are going to be your biggest hurdles and before even writing the first word you'd need to figure out the best way to deal with them.