When you write an outline, how much detail do you go into?

[Colinllama]

I'm new to writing, I definitely have a lot to learn.

I make an outline of each chapter before I start to write, but they are very brief. Just really notes about what each chapter should include. Something like this:

Character 1 goes to xxxx (description of xxxx) talks with Character 2.

Character 2 reveals xxxx

Characters 1 and 2 go together to xxxxx, and xxxxx happens.

There are often only 3-5 lines of notes per chapter outline. Then I flesh it out while writing.

Does anyone else do this, or do you all make more detailed notes?

 

[SailusGebel]

It depends on the chapter. Usually, I write 4-7 lines, add a date, and add more details\notes after writing the chapter.

 

[placeintime]

I have like a bullet point for each chapter. And in each chapter, I have like 3-4 sentences in it to give me an idea of what the basis should be. All of it is pretty general, not that specific so when I write, I can just fill it in as I go.
*Keep in mind not to go too specific. From my experience, going too specific on your outline can sometimes make you tunnel in on the idea too much.

 

[Marmalade]

I'm new to writing, I definitely have a lot to learn.

I make an outline of each chapter before I start to write, but they are very brief. Just really notes about what each chapter should include. Something like this:

Character 1 goes to xxxx (description of xxxx) talks with Character 2.

Character 2 reveals xxxx

Characters 1 and 2 go together to xxxxx, and xxxxx happens.

There are often only 3-5 lines of notes per chapter outline. Then I flesh it out while writing.

Does anyone else do this, or do you all make more detailed notes?

wow! that is a lot of planning. usually when I write the whole outline for my story is 10 sentences and always changing. I think you're already really detailed

 

[EternalSunset0]

I'm new to writing, I definitely have a lot to learn.

I make an outline of each chapter before I start to write, but they are very brief. Just really notes about what each chapter should include. Something like this:

Character 1 goes to xxxx (description of xxxx) talks with Character 2.

Character 2 reveals xxxx

Characters 1 and 2 go together to xxxxx, and xxxxx happens.

There are often only 3-5 lines of notes per chapter outline. Then I flesh it out while writing.

Does anyone else do this, or do you all make more detailed notes?

That's more or less what I do too. Nothing too detailed. But I should start writing down key dialogue next time.

I think of stuff but forget them once I get into writing.

 

[Kassel]

I'm new to writing, I definitely have a lot to learn.

I make an outline of each chapter before I start to write, but they are very brief. Just really notes about what each chapter should include. Something like this:

Character 1 goes to xxxx (description of xxxx) talks with Character 2.

Character 2 reveals xxxx

Characters 1 and 2 go together to xxxxx, and xxxxx happens.

There are often only 3-5 lines of notes per chapter outline. Then I flesh it out while writing.

Does anyone else do this, or do you all make more detailed notes?

5-6 lines

 

[Lorelliad]

You guys write outlines?

 

[ModernGold7ne]

You guys write outlines?

Yeah, though in my case, character establishment was prioritized in my first 12 chapters.

 

[JayDirex]

I'm new to writing, I definitely have a lot to learn.

I make an outline of each chapter before I start to write, but they are very brief. Just really notes about what each chapter should include. Something like this:

Character 1 goes to xxxx (description of xxxx) talks with Character 2.

Character 2 reveals xxxx

Characters 1 and 2 go together to xxxxx, and xxxxx happens.

There are often only 3-5 lines of notes per chapter outline. Then I flesh it out while writing.

Does anyone else do this, or do you all make more detailed notes?

Your chapter outline is missing some things.

1. What is the goal of this chapter?

2. What's the most interesting thing for the reader in this chapter?

The purpose of the last question is to force you to write something good. Because there are no filler chapters.

 

[DeclanDSI]

Outline of the entire story? If you are bothering with an outline, and you don't want to just make up the plot as you go, then make sure to have an ending in mind for your story, and build everything towards that ending. Perhaps along the way, you'll find a different ending that better fits what you've built so far in your outline/actual story, but having an ending in mind helps a lot with getting rid of plot holes and extraneous characters, dialogue, descriptions, etc., etc.

The way I go about outlining up to the ending is building great filters, things that are definitely needed in the story and all important to the plot/how I want the story built if it's a more slice of life type thing.

To me, it's like imagining a stream of ideas flowing down through a filter that only allows certain ideas to go through that abide by things like, "something must happen like X," or "character Y must have this characteristic," and everything else of how the story builds up to that or what happens after that is left for later examination and filtration.

As I finish building the more important filters that make up the skeletal structure of my story, I start to roughly divide up the work into sections of what the beginning is like and the rest. If you are shaping your story to match with your ending, keeping the beginning and the rest of the story fluid and easily changeable is vital for easily keeping your story wholistic instead of as just different parts noticeably tied together. Vice versa if you have a beginning/middle in mind that you absolutely must have in the story and/or you have already written parts of the story.

Then to narrow down what you want to write, just keep constructing filters in a way that is coherent with the rest of your filters, prioritizing what you want the most in your story so that you don't end up having a conflicting filter of lesser importance that you've already started to write a story around when you have come up with a more important filter.

And all of this can apply not just to writing the story as a whole, but to individual chapters as well. Basically, this methodology scales really well.

But make sure not to get too caught up in the little details of the story, and make sure not to get too caught up in the greater plot of the whole, changing the plot as you like, forcing you to rewrite the details of your story a lot. Don't miss the forest for the trees, and don't miss the trees for the forest.

Also, if you can't just seem to get a good idea out into a fully written story well, just write multiple differing summaries for the ideas for chapters you are writing and the story as a whole, and expand upon a summary you think is good into a full chapter/story.

This is the advice I have for you. I hope it's helpful.

And to directly answer your question: If I feel that I only need a vague idea of what I want in order to write, then I do so, but if I feel that I need an entire plan, then I go into as much detail as I feel I need in order to connect the dots and start writing the story.

 

[Jemini]

Hard to say, considering I'm a little unusual in this regard. I will say this, I have way too strong of an outline to be considered a "pantser." However, I have never actually written my outline down. It's all in my head, and it's details get actively revised and advanced as I write each new chapter.

I have just consigned myself to the idea that my brain works in a little bit of an abnormal way. I'm just fortunate that my thought abnormalities just so happen to compliment my writing abilities.

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

What I have done is:

Go full arc. Which is:
Beginning
End

Followed by a revision:
Beginning
Something at least sorta interesting
middle
I forgot something so might as well put it here
End

Arc outline ends up:
Fuck, it doesn't make sense. Put what I forgot here instead.
Ending insert here.
Middle here since I can't plan right.
Newer middle.
End again.
Sure, I forgot the "sorta interesting" bit. At least it'll make sense here now after all the editing.

Then I got to making the Chapters. Just a blurb of what should happen. Nothing fancy. Basically, it follows the "Arc" outline but with actual details.

I only plan out the contents in a chapter as I'm actively writing it down. This is in order to keep things open and not box myself into corners. Chapter "outlines" are just half-finished first sentences for the first paragraphs. To create a skeleton that can be filled up. Once I reach the ending using ramblings, I go back and add the details. This helps with spotting info dumping sections, too much dialogue, not enough scene movement, repetition of info. With a half-assed skeleton, it can feel like avoiding work while putting minimal effort to get things moving.

 

[Lunnear]

For me, I first create the world that the story would take place. Then the region, kingdom/country, family, family's position or the lack of, the age of that timeline, and the genres of the story, then I will ask myself; Is this story meant for certain ideas? Themes? How many Characters should this story focus on? Who's the Protagonist(s)? Where does the Prota fit in this world? What is the Prota's background?

Then, I will create the enemies or mobs that the Prota will have to meet.

Based on the genres, I will create a cause-and-effects, information on the cause-and-effect of events, covering the base of why, how, when, where, and what of those events from the Prota points of view and what the prota could find base on their intelligent, wisdom, opportunity, luck, and the people around them.

The ending can be both a bad ending and or a good ending after the maturity of the Prota and the surround people based on events.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

I write by volumes. And my style goes like this:

First, the overall plot, like...

1). Intro
2). Rising Action
3). Climax
4). Falling Tension
5). End

Then, after determining those parts, I go by detail, meaning my estimates on what part of the story my chapter would show.

After that, I'd write the details.

I won't release a chapter online after writing it. I'd finish an entire volume first, then do edits, before uploading. That way, I can always iron out the plotholes and grammar mistakes before my readers read my works.

 

[Jemini]

Hard to say, considering I'm a little unusual in this regard. I will say this, I have way too strong of an outline to be considered a "pantser." However, I have never actually written my outline down. It's all in my head, and it's details get actively revised and advanced as I write each new chapter.

I have just consigned myself to the idea that my brain works in a little bit of an abnormal way. I'm just fortunate that my thought abnormalities just so happen to compliment my writing abilities.

To elaborate a little more on the structure of my outlines (which I keep in my head,) I have my series already planned out with a basic flow and I also know exactly how I want to end it as well as several key events I want to have along the way. I also have it divided into 40 chapter "books" of 2,000 words per chapter (because approximately 80K words is about the right length for a book.)

I very much treat each individual book as it's own story arc within the greater story, and I have a somewhat detailed outline for every book. I always know exactly how I want the book to end before I even start writing it. I also know at least 1 key event (if not more) from the middle segment of the book, as well as how the basic flow of the middle portion should be handled. And, of course, since it's a series, I also know exactly how the book is starting since it often picks up from the previous book somehow.

So, it's a 3 act structure, and I outline several specific events along the course of it. However, due to it being a little loose and in my head, there is a lot of flexibility and on-the-spot revision if the flow of the writing is not quite fitting my mentally prepared outline that well. My outline being entirely in my head, it's rather easy to make these revisions on the fly. However, the outline was structured the way it was for a reason, and I can't just toss out the ideas I had. If they're important enough to appear in my mental outline, then they are very important. The presentation can be altered, but there is absolutely no way a point on my outline can be removed. So, if the story just isn't flowing right, it means I have to find a way to include it in some other way.

An example of this would be something I'm in the middle of writing right now.

Spoiler: do not read if you are following Key to the Void

The scene is a city that has turned into a magical war-zone between a group of 12 gnomes Vs. 4 elves, 2 humans, and a Zuu, and combating with demi-god level powers that threaten to tear the city to shreds.

And when I say gnomes, I'm not talking about D&D gnomes. I'm talking Renaissance magic gnomes. Powerful earth spirits that have such refined control over the element of earth that they can simply pass through solid ground as though it were air to them. The earth magic of a gnome is second only to that of an earth elemental. In fact, gnomes actually are a sentient humanoid class of earth elementals, and very powerful.

Anyway, the 4 elves and 2 humans are the main cast. The 2 humans and 1 of the elves are being targeted by the gnomes for abduction. The plan in my outline essentially looked like this.

The 1 targeted elf goes stealthing around the city and creating distractions, hoping to draw attention away from the 2 humans who are also being targeted.

Rest of the party goes around trying to kill the gnomes.

They meet with some success, but 1 human winds up getting abducted during the fight.

The 1 human being abducted was the super important "can not be left out" item within the outline.

What actually wound up happening was this.

The 1 targeted elf goes stealthing around the city as planned.

The gnomes prove too freaking durable to be killed, because they have too much earth mana reinforcing their bones and organs.

The 1 stealth elf summons a giant tree that absorbs earth mana.

Giant tree attracts the attention of all the gnomes and they start bunching up.

Plan has officially gone to shit.

That's where I am in my writing right now. I happen to think this version, how it actually turned out, is far more epic than the original outline I made. So, I regret nothing about how I went off script here. However, now I have to find a way to manage this so it still ends with them having some success, but the 1 human gets abducted in the end, since that's the important point in my outline.

 

[Colinllama]

Your chapter outline is missing some things.

1. What is the goal of this chapter?

2. What's the most interesting thing for the reader in this chapter?

The purpose of the last question is to force you to write something good. Because there are no filler chapters.

That second point is an excellent one. I should start doing that. Thank you.

Outline of the entire story? If you are bothering with an outline, and you don't want to just make up the plot as you go, then make sure to have an ending in mind for your story, and build everything towards that ending. Perhaps along the way, you'll find a different ending that better fits what you've built so far in your outline/actual story, but having an ending in mind helps a lot with getting rid of plot holes and extraneous characters, dialogue, descriptions, etc., etc.

The way I go about outlining up to the ending is building great filters, things that are definitely needed in the story and all important to the plot/how I want the story built if it's a more slice of life type thing.

To me, it's like imagining a stream of ideas flowing down through a filter that only allows certain ideas to go through that abide by things like, "something must happen like X," or "character Y must have this characteristic," and everything else of how the story builds up to that or what happens after that is left for later examination and filtration.

As I finish building the more important filters that make up the skeletal structure of my story, I start to roughly divide up the work into sections of what the beginning is like and the rest. If you are shaping your story to match with your ending, keeping the beginning and the rest of the story fluid and easily changeable is vital for easily keeping your story wholistic instead of as just different parts noticeably tied together. Vice versa if you have a beginning/middle in mind that you absolutely must have in the story and/or you have already written parts of the story.

Then to narrow down what you want to write, just keep constructing filters in a way that is coherent with the rest of your filters, prioritizing what you want the most in your story so that you don't end up having a conflicting filter of lesser importance that you've already started to write a story around when you have come up with a more important filter.

And all of this can apply not just to writing the story as a whole, but to individual chapters as well. Basically, this methodology scales really well.

But make sure not to get too caught up in the little details of the story, and make sure not to get too caught up in the greater plot of the whole, changing the plot as you like, forcing you to rewrite the details of your story a lot. Don't miss the forest for the trees, and don't miss the trees for the forest.

Also, if you can't just seem to get a good idea out into a fully written story well, just write multiple differing summaries for the ideas for chapters you are writing and the story as a whole, and expand upon a summary you think is good into a full chapter/story.

This is the advice I have for you. I hope it's helpful.

And to directly answer your question: If I feel that I only need a vague idea of what I want in order to write, then I do so, but if I feel that I need an entire plan, then I go into as much detail as I feel I need in order to connect the dots and start writing the story.

Very helpful. I think using the filter ideas will help me with characters. IE - how would this character act in this situation? I think that will help a lot with making my characters more believable.
I seems there are many different approaches that people take. Very interesting. I will steal ideas from you all,and slowly discover my own way I guess.

 

[LilRora]

I have the actual outline in my head, because it's the most flexible tool you can get. Though I usually write a somewhat detailed plan of the story alongside it, because it helps keep track of things and make sure I didn't miss anything.

I don't bother with outlining arcs or volumes ouside my head, apart from the very general idea of them, because it helps me organize me the thing into coherent whole and put it all on a timeline. Generally, if you are making an outline, you should start with the most general facts and go into more detail from there (though I'm pretty sure you know that already). But one thing I found really helpful was to write a very general outline long before I actually started fleshing out the details. I tend to think a lot for example in bed before sleeping, and it's really common for me to switch things up after I judge something could be better than I wrote initially.

 

[Colinllama]

I have the actual outline in my head, because it's the most flexible tool you can get. Though I usually write a somewhat detailed plan of the story alongside it, because it helps keep track of things and make sure I didn't miss anything.

I don't bother with outlining arcs or volumes ouside my head, apart from the very general idea of them, because it helps me organize me the thing into coherent whole and put it all on a timeline. Generally, if you are making an outline, you should start with the most general facts and go into more detail from there (though I'm pretty sure you know that already). But one thing I found really helpful was to write a very general outline long before I actually started fleshing out the details. I tend to think a lot for example in bed before sleeping, and it's really common for me to switch things up after I judge something could be better than I wrote initially.

I think I'd forget stuff if I didn't have some notes. You must have a better memory than I do!