Factors that influence the outcome of a fight, in rank order.

Jemini

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I have seen too many people favoring speed in story-telling for a while. From the perspective of someone who has trained both HEMA and Kenjutsu, I think it is high time to debunk the OP portrayal of speed. It is just not as effective a factor in combat as people give it credit for.

If you want an easy to understand example, have a skilled Super Smash Bros player play Ganondwarf (slowest character in the game) and a less skilled player play Sonic (Not just the fastest character, he is also more than 2X faster than the runner-up.) You will soon see the Ganon player landing perfectly timed hits on the Sonic player every single time the Sonic player tries to come in for an attack.

The only way speed is ever a significant advantage is if you have speedster-class superpower speed and can move so fast that you become effectively invisible. Otherwise, it is just not efficient or effective compared to other things that will give you an advantage.

So, based on the perspective of this one person with real-life martial experience with medieval weaponry, here are the things in rank order that will give you an actual advantage in combat.

The way I have organized this list is that if having an advantage in one area can be used to overcome your disadvantage in another area, then the one that helps to overcome the other is clearly a superior factor to have on your side. So, this is semi-objective in that sense and as accurate as I can manage.

The protection you get from your armor and shield make a huge difference. If you can intercept your enemy's attacks with your shield or a portion of your armor, it means you can simply force your way through and attack them back without as much concern. If you are better protected than your enemy, then this will give you an almost insurmountable advantage.

The one special note is your helmet. With a helmet, there is always a trade-off between coverage and vision. Coverage is important for your protection, but if it limits your vision then that gives your opponent an area they can take advantage of by moving into a blind-spot created by your helmet. Modern day fencing masks solve this problem beautifully with their wire mesh face covering, but that's a technology that did not exist in medieval times.

Having better footing, positioning so the sun is to your back, thrusting a spear or firing an arrow from behind cover, these are all examples of using the terrain to your advantage and it makes for a huge difference in combat.

The ability of the combatant to respond quickly and smoothly to their enemy's actions simply by muscle memory, having an intuition for how to overcome reach advantage, knowing the techniques and being familiar with how a weapon moves, and even having the ability to effectively anticipate your enemy's moves and thus counter them.

Skill is something only gained through experience, and it makes a very large degree of difference. It can overcome almost any other advantage the enemy can throw at you if your skill is sufficient enough. However, it is still number 3 for a reason. The items in #2 and #1 positions are just that powerful to be above something as domineering as skill.

The condition of the combatant's back or joints, and the level of movement they are capable of keeping up. Someone with high degrees of skill can fight effectively with artheritic joints and a bad back, but when lacking that level of skill, physical health can make a devastating difference.

This is not a reference to strength or speed. Rather, it is a reference to agility and ability to perform complex maneuvers. Stamina is also a factor in athleticism that makes a huge difference in combat. Agility is the ability to suddenly change the direction of your momentum.

Athleticism is optional when it comes to weapons combat, but it gives you options that a less athletically inclined person would not have. These extra options can often make all the difference in your combat performance.

Weapon reach is kind of a big deal. So much so that I am honestly surprised it wound up this far down on the list. However, by my criteria that anything that can be used to override an advantage will automatically be higher on the list, this is where things wound up.

Weapon reach really does make a rather big difference. You can hear it talked about, but you truly do not understand just HOW much of a difference a reach of a mere 6 inches or so can really make when it comes to getting past the other guy's weapon in order to strike. Every added inch means extra rotational speed. Rotational speed means extra force on impact, which means that attempts to parry the longer weapon will frequently put you at a disadvantage. And that is in addition to the trouble you will already have with the fact that he will be able to stab you at a measure where you can't even touch him.

If you are facing off against an opponent with a longer weapon, an advantage in one or more of the above 5 areas will be absolutely necessary in order to overcome the devastating advantage they will have over you.

How tall or short you are compared to your opponent actually does make a difference, and a big one too. This one, however, is a little unusual. The advantage you gain from this one is not linear. Rather, the closer to average height you are the more you are at a disadvantage. It is the people who are exceptionally tall or short going out in either direction who gain an advantage from this one.

There is no real benefit to being a little taller or shorter than your opponent. However, when you are facing an opponent of a different height, there will be some techniques that just will not work the same way as they would if you were facing an opponent of the same height as you.

This gives people with an unusual height a distinct advantage. Short people will be very used to fighting combatants who are taller than them, and very tall people will be used to fighting combatants shorter than them. They will be more capable of taking advantage of the differences in the techniques than their more average-height opponents.

However, there is one point in favor of the unusually tall person. If you face an unusually tall person against an unusually short person, they will be used to the technique difference between the two of them, which will eliminate the primary advantage given by height difference. However, once you have this large a size gap, you actually WILL now be at the point where the length of the taller person's arm makes a significant difference and gives them the same kind of advantage weapon reach would grant.

When all the above is equal, having the ability to physically overpower your opponent can win you the day. If you can parry their weapon hard enough to fling them wide-open, defeat a grappling attempt and turn it into a strength-on-strength fight, or just rush the opponent in an overbearing manner, then you are now in the arena where who is physically stronger will make all the difference on who is the victor.

If it comes down to a contest of strength, it usually means that you are either 1. in a situation where technique has completely failed for whatever reason or, 2. you are equal in skill to your opponent but unequal in strength, and thus you decided to somehow incorporate overbearing tactics into your combat strategy.

The ability to move your weapon or your feet quickly.

In truth, it takes an immense difference in physical strength in order to accelerate yourself even 10% faster. In the real world, speed is highly inefficient when it comes to gaining combat advantages. The only time speed is even capable of being different enough between 2 people for it to make a difference in a fight is in the worlds of video games and comic books.

The time in the real world you might get a significant speed advantage over someone is if you also have a HUGE athleticism and physical health advantage over them. If this is the case, you have far more than just your speed working in your favor anyway, and the other things working in your favor are likely to contribute far more to the fight than your speed would. As such, speed becomes hardly even worth the mention.
 

Paul_Tromba

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I actually love that someone is pointing this out. It has bothered me for some time. Especially since I too have participated in HEMA in the past. Some cases have proven that against someone skilled and properly armored, a person's speed can be used against them. I can't find the exact video that I was looking for but I found one that is similar. HEMA fight Knockout
 

Karobo

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What you're giving out is that a faster rookie is no match to a skilled veteran, which is right. What happens if the faster guy is skilled too?
 

gogo7966

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i'm also surprised how far down reach is, because compeared to the others that is one a lazy fuck like me can easily expirience how much of a difirence it makes in action games
 

Assurbanipal_II

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I have seen too many people favoring speed in story-telling for a while. From the perspective of someone who has trained both HEMA and Kenjutsu, I think it is high time to debunk the OP portrayal of speed. It is just not as effective a factor in combat as people give it credit for.

If you want an easy to understand example, have a skilled Super Smash Bros player play Ganondwarf (slowest character in the game) and a less skilled player play Sonic (Not just the fastest character, he is also more than 2X faster than the runner-up.) You will soon see the Ganon player landing perfectly timed hits on the Sonic player every single time the Sonic player tries to come in for an attack.

The only way speed is ever a significant advantage is if you have speedster-class superpower speed and can move so fast that you become effectively invisible. Otherwise, it is just not efficient or effective compared to other things that will give you an advantage.

So, based on the perspective of this one person with real-life martial experience with medieval weaponry, here are the things in rank order that will give you an actual advantage in combat.

The way I have organized this list is that if having an advantage in one area can be used to overcome your disadvantage in another area, then the one that helps to overcome the other is clearly a superior factor to have on your side. So, this is semi-objective in that sense and as accurate as I can manage.

The protection you get from your armor and shield make a huge difference. If you can intercept your enemy's attacks with your shield or a portion of your armor, it means you can simply force your way through and attack them back without as much concern. If you are better protected than your enemy, then this will give you an almost insurmountable advantage.

The one special note is your helmet. With a helmet, there is always a trade-off between coverage and vision. Coverage is important for your protection, but if it limits your vision then that gives your opponent an area they can take advantage of by moving into a blind-spot created by your helmet. Modern day fencing masks solve this problem beautifully with their wire mesh face covering, but that's a technology that did not exist in medieval times.

Having better footing, positioning so the sun is to your back, thrusting a spear or firing an arrow from behind cover, these are all examples of using the terrain to your advantage and it makes for a huge difference in combat.

The ability of the combatant to respond quickly and smoothly to their enemy's actions simply by muscle memory, having an intuition for how to overcome reach advantage, knowing the techniques and being familiar with how a weapon moves, and even having the ability to effectively anticipate your enemy's moves and thus counter them.

Skill is something only gained through experience, and it makes a very large degree of difference. It can overcome almost any other advantage the enemy can throw at you if your skill is sufficient enough. However, it is still number 3 for a reason. The items in #2 and #1 positions are just that powerful to be above something as domineering as skill.

The condition of the combatant's back or joints, and the level of movement they are capable of keeping up. Someone with high degrees of skill can fight effectively with artheritic joints and a bad back, but when lacking that level of skill, physical health can make a devastating difference.

This is not a reference to strength or speed. Rather, it is a reference to agility and ability to perform complex maneuvers. Stamina is also a factor in athleticism that makes a huge difference in combat. Agility is the ability to suddenly change the direction of your momentum.

Athleticism is optional when it comes to weapons combat, but it gives you options that a less athletically inclined person would not have. These extra options can often make all the difference in your combat performance.

Weapon reach is kind of a big deal. So much so that I am honestly surprised it wound up this far down on the list. However, by my criteria that anything that can be used to override an advantage will automatically be higher on the list, this is where things wound up.

Weapon reach really does make a rather big difference. You can hear it talked about, but you truly do not understand just HOW much of a difference a reach of a mere 6 inches or so can really make when it comes to getting past the other guy's weapon in order to strike. Every added inch means extra rotational speed. Rotational speed means extra force on impact, which means that attempts to parry the longer weapon will frequently put you at a disadvantage. And that is in addition to the trouble you will already have with the fact that he will be able to stab you at a measure where you can't even touch him.

If you are facing off against an opponent with a longer weapon, an advantage in one or more of the above 5 areas will be absolutely necessary in order to overcome the devastating advantage they will have over you.

How tall or short you are compared to your opponent actually does make a difference, and a big one too. This one, however, is a little unusual. The advantage you gain from this one is not linear. Rather, the closer to average height you are the more you are at a disadvantage. It is the people who are exceptionally tall or short going out in either direction who gain an advantage from this one.

There is no real benefit to being a little taller or shorter than your opponent. However, when you are facing an opponent of a different height, there will be some techniques that just will not work the same way as they would if you were facing an opponent of the same height as you.

This gives people with an unusual height a distinct advantage. Short people will be very used to fighting combatants who are taller than them, and very tall people will be used to fighting combatants shorter than them. They will be more capable of taking advantage of the differences in the techniques than their more average-height opponents.

However, there is one point in favor of the unusually tall person. If you face an unusually tall person against an unusually short person, they will be used to the technique difference between the two of them, which will eliminate the primary advantage given by height difference. However, once you have this large a size gap, you actually WILL now be at the point where the length of the taller person's arm makes a significant difference and gives them the same kind of advantage weapon reach would grant.

When all the above is equal, having the ability to physically overpower your opponent can win you the day. If you can parry their weapon hard enough to fling them wide-open, defeat a grappling attempt and turn it into a strength-on-strength fight, or just rush the opponent in an overbearing manner, then you are now in the arena where who is physically stronger will make all the difference on who is the victor.

If it comes down to a contest of strength, it usually means that you are either 1. in a situation where technique has completely failed for whatever reason or, 2. you are equal in skill to your opponent but unequal in strength, and thus you decided to somehow incorporate overbearing tactics into your combat strategy.

The ability to move your weapon or your feet quickly.

In truth, it takes an immense difference in physical strength in order to accelerate yourself even 10% faster. In the real world, speed is highly inefficient when it comes to gaining combat advantages. The only time speed is even capable of being different enough between 2 people for it to make a difference in a fight is in the worlds of video games and comic books.

The time in the real world you might get a significant speed advantage over someone is if you also have a HUGE athleticism and physical health advantage over them. If this is the case, you have far more than just your speed working in your favor anyway, and the other things working in your favor are likely to contribute far more to the fight than your speed would. As such, speed becomes hardly even worth the mention.
So you have actually killed people if you have experience in medieval weaponry? :blob_aww:
 

Jemini

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What you're giving out is that a faster rookie is no match to a skilled veteran, which is right. What happens if the faster guy is skilled too?
I'm not saying speed makes no difference. I'm saying that all the factors higher on the list are more important and can overcome a difference in speed.

As such, they would have to be equally armored, on level footing, equally skilled, equally healthy and athletic, equal in terms of weapon reach, equal height, and also equal strength before speed can make an actual difference.

If any of the above are uneven, the outcome of the fight is more likely to be determined by the other factor rather than the speed. It is nearly impossible to have all of those other factors even.

If the two fighters are equally skilled, that just means that the fighter who has an advantage in one of the other 8 higher level differences will be able to leverage that against the faster guy.
 

SailusGebel

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When you talked about equipment, you forgot to mention that red goez fasta. So always remember to paint your armor, shield, and weapon red.
 

Snusmumriken

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Imo if you actually gonna talk about ranking factors in battle a good reference would be the defence onion:

 

Jemini

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Imo if you actually gonna talk about ranking factors in battle a good reference would be the defence onion:

I really don't see how this helps with a personal 1 on 1 battle using medieval weaponry.
 

PhillisCreziles

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Realistically speaking, Protective Equipment is definitely the first thing combatants will have to prioritize when going into battles.

But I also think that a Combatant's Physical Health should also have more of an impact on a battle's outcome as well, no matter the terrain. Quicker movements are much harder to pull off when there is a high chance that your composure may collapse like a stack of cards upon taking a misstep on a rock or slipping on mud for example. Faster and stronger attacks may also be harder to pull off as well because the combatant must be able to handle the recoil of their own attacks. (unless if they are using ranged weapons, then it might not actually be a problem.) Then there is also the issue that you may not be able to efficiently endure pain, it could throw off your fighting composure if your body is experiencing too much pain.

Although none of that would actually matter if the combatant was skilled enough to nullify pain their own pain.
 
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Snusmumriken

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I really don't see how this helps with a personal 1 on 1 battle using medieval weaponry.
Well for starters it shows that reach has to be higher than where you placed it - there is a reason bows and spears were so popular, especially with the untrained masses - they allowed them to trump many things they didn't have like good gear\good training\good diet.
You can boast as much as you like that your armour can block every other hit - it is still worse than paper-thin armour that didn't have to block any because the opponent died before they could hit you.

Onion is about a general encounter. not when two guys walk up close together in a ring with judges and duke it out
 

KiraMinoru

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I have seen too many people favoring speed in story-telling for a while. From the perspective of someone who has trained both HEMA and Kenjutsu, I think it is high time to debunk the OP portrayal of speed. It is just not as effective a factor in combat as people give it credit for.

If you want an easy to understand example, have a skilled Super Smash Bros player play Ganondwarf (slowest character in the game) and a less skilled player play Sonic (Not just the fastest character, he is also more than 2X faster than the runner-up.) You will soon see the Ganon player landing perfectly timed hits on the Sonic player every single time the Sonic player tries to come in for an attack.

The only way speed is ever a significant advantage is if you have speedster-class superpower speed and can move so fast that you become effectively invisible. Otherwise, it is just not efficient or effective compared to other things that will give you an advantage.

So, based on the perspective of this one person with real-life martial experience with medieval weaponry, here are the things in rank order that will give you an actual advantage in combat.

The way I have organized this list is that if having an advantage in one area can be used to overcome your disadvantage in another area, then the one that helps to overcome the other is clearly a superior factor to have on your side. So, this is semi-objective in that sense and as accurate as I can manage.

The protection you get from your armor and shield make a huge difference. If you can intercept your enemy's attacks with your shield or a portion of your armor, it means you can simply force your way through and attack them back without as much concern. If you are better protected than your enemy, then this will give you an almost insurmountable advantage.

The one special note is your helmet. With a helmet, there is always a trade-off between coverage and vision. Coverage is important for your protection, but if it limits your vision then that gives your opponent an area they can take advantage of by moving into a blind-spot created by your helmet. Modern day fencing masks solve this problem beautifully with their wire mesh face covering, but that's a technology that did not exist in medieval times.

Having better footing, positioning so the sun is to your back, thrusting a spear or firing an arrow from behind cover, these are all examples of using the terrain to your advantage and it makes for a huge difference in combat.

The ability of the combatant to respond quickly and smoothly to their enemy's actions simply by muscle memory, having an intuition for how to overcome reach advantage, knowing the techniques and being familiar with how a weapon moves, and even having the ability to effectively anticipate your enemy's moves and thus counter them.

Skill is something only gained through experience, and it makes a very large degree of difference. It can overcome almost any other advantage the enemy can throw at you if your skill is sufficient enough. However, it is still number 3 for a reason. The items in #2 and #1 positions are just that powerful to be above something as domineering as skill.

The condition of the combatant's back or joints, and the level of movement they are capable of keeping up. Someone with high degrees of skill can fight effectively with artheritic joints and a bad back, but when lacking that level of skill, physical health can make a devastating difference.

This is not a reference to strength or speed. Rather, it is a reference to agility and ability to perform complex maneuvers. Stamina is also a factor in athleticism that makes a huge difference in combat. Agility is the ability to suddenly change the direction of your momentum.

Athleticism is optional when it comes to weapons combat, but it gives you options that a less athletically inclined person would not have. These extra options can often make all the difference in your combat performance.

Weapon reach is kind of a big deal. So much so that I am honestly surprised it wound up this far down on the list. However, by my criteria that anything that can be used to override an advantage will automatically be higher on the list, this is where things wound up.

Weapon reach really does make a rather big difference. You can hear it talked about, but you truly do not understand just HOW much of a difference a reach of a mere 6 inches or so can really make when it comes to getting past the other guy's weapon in order to strike. Every added inch means extra rotational speed. Rotational speed means extra force on impact, which means that attempts to parry the longer weapon will frequently put you at a disadvantage. And that is in addition to the trouble you will already have with the fact that he will be able to stab you at a measure where you can't even touch him.

If you are facing off against an opponent with a longer weapon, an advantage in one or more of the above 5 areas will be absolutely necessary in order to overcome the devastating advantage they will have over you.

How tall or short you are compared to your opponent actually does make a difference, and a big one too. This one, however, is a little unusual. The advantage you gain from this one is not linear. Rather, the closer to average height you are the more you are at a disadvantage. It is the people who are exceptionally tall or short going out in either direction who gain an advantage from this one.

There is no real benefit to being a little taller or shorter than your opponent. However, when you are facing an opponent of a different height, there will be some techniques that just will not work the same way as they would if you were facing an opponent of the same height as you.

This gives people with an unusual height a distinct advantage. Short people will be very used to fighting combatants who are taller than them, and very tall people will be used to fighting combatants shorter than them. They will be more capable of taking advantage of the differences in the techniques than their more average-height opponents.

However, there is one point in favor of the unusually tall person. If you face an unusually tall person against an unusually short person, they will be used to the technique difference between the two of them, which will eliminate the primary advantage given by height difference. However, once you have this large a size gap, you actually WILL now be at the point where the length of the taller person's arm makes a significant difference and gives them the same kind of advantage weapon reach would grant.

When all the above is equal, having the ability to physically overpower your opponent can win you the day. If you can parry their weapon hard enough to fling them wide-open, defeat a grappling attempt and turn it into a strength-on-strength fight, or just rush the opponent in an overbearing manner, then you are now in the arena where who is physically stronger will make all the difference on who is the victor.

If it comes down to a contest of strength, it usually means that you are either 1. in a situation where technique has completely failed for whatever reason or, 2. you are equal in skill to your opponent but unequal in strength, and thus you decided to somehow incorporate overbearing tactics into your combat strategy.

The ability to move your weapon or your feet quickly.

In truth, it takes an immense difference in physical strength in order to accelerate yourself even 10% faster. In the real world, speed is highly inefficient when it comes to gaining combat advantages. The only time speed is even capable of being different enough between 2 people for it to make a difference in a fight is in the worlds of video games and comic books.

The time in the real world you might get a significant speed advantage over someone is if you also have a HUGE athleticism and physical health advantage over them. If this is the case, you have far more than just your speed working in your favor anyway, and the other things working in your favor are likely to contribute far more to the fight than your speed would. As such, speed becomes hardly even worth the mention.
But if the other person is faster they can just run away and lead the person who outclasses them in all other areas into a trap where the faster person gains the advantage. If you ask me, number one on the list should be strategy, combat intelligence, the ability to access the situation.

Just for the record, they don’t need to turn their back and flee leaving them open to an arrow to the back or long range weapon. They simply need to lure them and keep them a certain distance away where it’s not far enough for the enemy to try a long range attack.

Honestly, when you bring strategy into the equation it just makes ranking these things completely irrelevant though.
 
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Anon_Y_Mousse

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But if the other person is faster they can just run away and lead the person who outclasses them in all other areas into a trap where the faster person gains the advantage. If you ask me, number one on the list should be strategy, combat intelligence, the ability to access the situation.

Just for the record, they don’t need to turn their back and flee leaving them open to an arrow to the back or long range weapon. They simply need to lure them and keep them a certain distance away where it’s not far enough for the enemy to try a long range attack.

Honestly, when you bring strategy into the equation it just makes ranking these things completely irrelevant though.
Actually, traps would fall under terrain advantage. If you could lure them into an ambush and aren't fighting in an open plain, well then that's great! But in that case you wouldn't really need that speed advantage.
 

KiraMinoru

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Actually, traps would fall under terrain advantage. If you could lure them into an ambush and aren't fighting in an open plain, well then that's great! But in that case you wouldn't really need that speed advantage
It wouldn’t fall under terrain advantage as terrain advantage is a sub category of strategy. It does not embody the totality of strategy. Traps are not the only part of strategy. I just give traps as an example. There is also psychology and many other factors part of strategy as well. Feints, red herrings, anticipation, manipulating the enemy’s state of mind, their moral, their body’s physical condition, wearing out physical and mental stamina through attrition, etc.
 

Anon_Y_Mousse

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It wouldn’t fall under terrain advantage as terrain advantage is a sub category of strategy. It does not embody the totality of strategy. Traps are not the only part of strategy. I just give traps as an example. There is also psychology and many other factors part of strategy as well. Feints, red herrings, anticipation, manipulating the enemy’s state of mind, their moral, their body’s physical condition, wearing out physical and mental stamina through attrition, etc.
Feints and red herrings fall under the skill of combatants. Intimidation is hard to do if you're on a one-on-one with some guy you don't know. Attrition is taking advantage of the opponent's/your own physical condition and athleticism
Even with strategy you would have to factor in this ranking. When facing a man in full plate armor with only your sword, you run away in the opposite direction, preferably without getting shot. Unless you're in fantasy land, may be some more factors there.
 

Jemini

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Realistically speaking, Protective Equipment is definitely the first thing combatants will have to prioritize when going into battles.

But I also think that a Combatant's Physical Health should also have more of an impact on a battle's outcome as well, no matter the terrain. Quicker movements are much harder to pull off when there is a high chance that your composure may collapse like a stack of cards upon taking a misstep on a rock or slipping on mud for example. Faster and stronger attacks may also be harder to pull off as well because the combatant must be able to handle the recoil of their own attacks. (unless if they are using ranged weapons, then it might not actually be a problem.) Then there is also the issue that you may not be able to efficiently endure pain, it could throw off your fighting composure if your body is experiencing too much pain.

Although none of that would actually matter if the combatant was skilled enough to nullify pain their own pain.

As I explained in my preamble, these items were prioritized such that items that are ranked higher can effectively compensate for disadvantages in items that are ranked lower. If you have better protective equipment than the other guy, it can compensate for all but the most extreme differences in physical health. Same goes for terrain advantages and skill of the combatant.

True, if you maximize the degree of difference in a lower item and minimize the difference in a higher one, the lower one can take priority. However, things really do have to be pretty extreme in order to do so. This list was created with the presumption of assuming a fairly normal spread on these things.

Well for starters it shows that reach has to be higher than where you placed it - there is a reason bows and spears were so popular, especially with the untrained masses - they allowed them to trump many things they didn't have like good gear\good training\good diet.
You can boast as much as you like that your armour can block every other hit - it is still worse than paper-thin armour that didn't have to block any because the opponent died before they could hit you.

Onion is about a general encounter. not when two guys walk up close together in a ring with judges and duke it out

What I said in response to the guy above can apply here as well. However, more importantly, you are once again inserting modern technology when twice I have made it quite explicitly clear this is about medieval technology.

Just to humor you though, I will take your example and respond to arrows.

#1. A good thick shield can protect you against arrows.

#2. Moving from cover to cover can protect you against arrows.

#3. Skill can also mean strategy. A more strategic thinker can come up with a way to overcome a ranged weapon.

#4. You need a lot of physical strength to draw a bow. Therefore, it is really not possible for someone in poor physical health. Range of that grade is not an option unless the guy with the bow is in peak physical health.

#5. Athleticism will allow you to perform some complex movements, making it difficult for the arrow to hit you. All you have to do is get within 20 feet and then all ranged weapons will be useless. When farther than 20 feet, running zig-sag fashion is enough to make it difficult for a singular archer to hit you.

A bow and arrow is not an accuracy weapon. The heavy grade war bows that go through armor had to be fired in vollys of dozens or hundreds of archers at once in order to be effective. As I mentioned in #4, a great deal of physical strength is needed to draw a bow. It is not something you can just sit there and aim with.

You might get confused on this bit with bows and arrows thanks to movies where the character will just draw the bow and then sit there and aim for a long time. These bows have somewhere around a 10lb or 20lb draw, and are just made to look good for the actors. They can likely cause a really nasty prick to someone in street clothes at most, but arrows shot from one of these bows will never deal a fatal injury.

Target shoot bows are closer to a 40 to 50 lb draw. A good piece of ply-wood is enough to protect against these ones.

The kind of penetrating power you are talking about only comes with 100lb+ bows. Those can go through linen armor and chain mail. However, it is a myth that they can go through plate. There is someone who did a really good video on this once. They tested it to the most extreme degree and used a 170lb monster of a war bow and used modern steel and technology to create the arrow heads. It still could not penetrate an old-style steel breastplate.
 

Snusmumriken

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All these examples you are showing are already putting you at a disadvantage - because you are already on the defensive from the incoming fire. You are describing a person that can (not will) survive the attacks while doing zero damage or even attempt to damage in return. He is already losing in terms of armour integrity (there are joints and gaps in armour), mobility (heavier gear + looks like a porcupine), stamina (heavy gear + needs to run around from cover to cover) and then he has to also strategically think.

While archer lobs arrow after arrow in his general direction. He doesn't need to be precise - he needs to hit once and he has plenty of time to do so.

And if he doesn't?

The heavily armoured warrior arrives at a deserted shooting area.


Also here is an example from my "modern" onion - person A arrives to a fight dressed in armour. Person B...doesn't show up. I want to see how better armour would help person A to change the outcome of the battle that parson B enforced.

Or how that armour would help when B stabs him at night or from behind the corner when A is unaware.

As I said your rules are more like tournament rules, not fighting rules.
 

Jemini

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And if he doesn't?

The heavily armoured warrior arrives at a deserted shooting area.

Ok, you clearly did not understand what I said before. YOU CANNOT MOVE WHILE HANDLING A BOW! The force you need to exert while drawing a bow makes it so you need to remain stationary for the entire process. If you don't believe me, grab a 40 lb target-shooting bow (significantly easier to handle than a 70lb war bow) and draw it and then try to run with it at full draw. Also, try running and then draw the bow while running. You will find that in the first scenario you really cannot run very well, and in the latter you will be unable to draw the bow and have to come to a stop while you are drawing it.

If you are moving, you are defenseless while the other guy is closing in on you. If you are firing, then you are stationary while the heavily armored warrior can simply hide behind his shield while still charging. A bow has nothing in a 1 on 1 encounter.

Also, as has been mentioned before, EXTREME advantages in a lower rank area can indeed stress the higher ones a little more. However, in a general all scenarios break-down, the ordering I placed them in holds true.

If we were to give them both bows and give only one of them an advantage in one of the higher level categories, the one with that advantage would win at a higher % than the one without it. If we were to give one of them a bow with a longer shooting range, and the other had a bow with a shorter shooting range but he had cover, the guy with cover would win. Excetera.

Extreme examples do not disprove the overall point. Rather, it is an exception that proves the rule.
 
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