2nd Language English

[Cipiteca396]

The biggest problem I see is usually the lack of basic grammar. Like, actually basic. A noun is an object, a verb is an action, so on. I don't know this site or youtuber, but the info is good.

The 11 Rules of Grammar: Understand the Basics

There are 11 basic grammar rules that can assure what you write sounds less like gibberish and more like English. We break them down for you.

grammar.yourdictionary.com

The one that usually annoys me is run on sentences. It's entirely possible to write long, drawn out sentences and have them be grammatically correct. Maybe a little long winded and dull, but still correct. But if you write a sentence where one or more things act and act and act and act with just commas to separate it, that's no good.

If you're unsure whether your sentence is a run-on, JUST SLICE IT UP. Make it as small as possible, until you know what's most important. There should only be two words. Subject and Predicate. A noun, and an action that noun is performing. After that, everything in English is just making those two fancier and more meaningful.

Oh, side note. If you're learning a new language, go all out. If you make a mistake, fix it. Don't half ass things because they don't matter. You're teaching yourself how to write with everything you write, so using easy shortcuts like u, m8, cuz, and so on are shooting yourself in the foot. It doesn't matter, but it's a good way to learn.

 

[Temple]

^ Yep, run-on sentences and comma splices too.
Anyway, for me, beyond the basic grammar stuff, what I look for in web novels is dialogue, dialogue tagging, action tagging, internal monologue. Most native speakers that start writing also don't know this stuff. It's a good thing to study up on to level up writing.

 

[SakeVision]

How does one know if a person is a non-native speaker and not just a dumbass?

when I see people use european comma rules, instead of using english comma rules

^like I did in the above sentence. You wouldn't put a comma there in English, but you would put it in any other language~

Also, after reading several novels authored by a frenchie, I can recognize a french-style mistakes at glance. They struggle with tough stuff like plural/singular and overuse had and would. People who aren't English natives also make a very common sense "mistake" of not sticking to one tense in prose.

For example, consider the following:

The kingdom of Whatever is fast and wealthy. The MC arrived yesterday and went to buy some vodka.

In english language, that would be wrong. The first sentence should be in past tense. However, in many other languages, it's correct-because you're stating some kinda fact about how the kingdom is, so you use present tense, and then you say what the mc did, so you use the past tense.

Oh, and not capitalizing all the words in the title of a novel or chapters is a tell too, cause that's not a thing outside angloshpere.

 

[Roland_Pine]

when I see people use european comma rules, instead of using english comma rules

^like I did in the above sentence. You wouldn't put a comma there in English, but you would put it in any other language~

Also, after reading several novels authored by a frenchie, I can recognize a french-style mistakes at glance. They struggle with tough stuff like plural/singular and overuse had and would. People who aren't English natives also make a very common sense "mistake" of not sticking to one tense in prose.

For example, consider the following:

The kingdom of Whatever is fast and wealthy. The MC arrived yesterday and went to buy some vodka.

In english language, that would be wrong. The first sentence should be in past tense. However, in many other languages, it's correct-because you're stating some kinda fact about how the kingdom is, so you use present tense, and then you say what the mc did, so you use the past tense.

Oh, and not capitalizing all the words in the title of a novel or chapters is a tell too, cause that's not a thing outside angloshpere.

I think the key to understanding English punctuation rules is to get a good grasp of the rhythm and cadence of spoken English. When you understand commas as pauses, it becomes a lot easier to see where they should go.

 

[Psycholor]

There is absolutely no way, I know native speakers who speak like dyslexic people.



So, my answer is, everyone, please use punctuations. They are very necessary, more important than spelling or grammar error.

It's easy to read something like,
"Exuse me, sory for bad english, im from brazil, but cood u tell me y me chaps not on the table on frnt page?"

But it gets very hard to read something like,
"Hello happy valentines as a brother not in a romantic way i already have a boyfriend."

The above line was legit something a native speaker said to me today

Yes, punctuation is a really big one. The classic example:

"Let's eat Grandma!" vs "Let's eat, Grandma!"

Or proper use of colons and semi-colons:

"Agentt ate their friend's sandwich." vs "Agentt ate their friend's colon."

The presence of a misplaced colon changes the meaning entirely.

 

[SakeVision]

I think the key to understanding English punctuation rules is to get a good grasp of the rhythm and cadence of spoken English. When you understand commas as pauses, it becomes a lot easier to see where they should go.

Yeah, most people can't do it. And my characters don't speak with rhythm and cadence of spoken English, either!

Next time someone jumps at me at putting comma wrong I'm gonna say "Sorry cyka, but Eleanora Yelizaveta Ivanovna Kropotkin doesn't pause at that moment"

 

[Agentt]

"Agentt ate their friend's sandwich." vs "Agentt ate their friend's colon."

The presence of a misplaced colon changes the meaning entirely.

Both of these sentences mean the same though?

when I see people use european comma rules, instead of using english comma rules

^like I did in the above sentence. You wouldn't put a comma there in English, but you would put it in any other language~

Also, after reading several novels authored by a frenchie, I can recognize a french-style mistakes at glance. They struggle with tough stuff like plural/singular and overuse had and would. People who aren't English natives also make a very common sense "mistake" of not sticking to one tense in prose.

For example, consider the following:

The kingdom of Whatever is fast and wealthy. The MC arrived yesterday and went to buy some vodka.

In english language, that would be wrong. The first sentence should be in past tense. However, in many other languages, it's correct-because you're stating some kinda fact about how the kingdom is, so you use present tense, and then you say what the mc did, so you use the past tense.

Oh, and not capitalizing all the words in the title of a novel or chapters is a tell too, cause that's not a thing outside angloshpere.

I actually noticed it as well!

When I was new to writing, i was very worried about where to put those things, but now I am like, "Feck English, it's primitive," and so I put them wherever I wpuld breath.

 

[Temple]

Both of these sentences mean the same though?

I think that was supposed to be a joke, supposedly referring to semi colons and colons and punctuations in grammar, but ended up using the colon that referred to the body organ. It's not funny anymore though that I explained it.

 

[BlackKnightX]

So, this is a thread for the native English speakers or for those who think that they are good at English.

I just want you guys to tell non-native speakers or those who are not really good at English about what kind of problem (grammer or anything) you guys catch/see most of the time when you read a story/novel by non-native speakers.

(Some mistakes people make without even knowing that it was incorrect or wrong. (You guys can tell me if I made any mistake in this thread.))

Awkward sentences? I’ve read some stories with a lot of awkward sentences before on this site. I think it’s the influence of authors reading a lot of Japanese’s, Chinese’s, or Korean’s translated novels.

English is not my first language, and admittedly, the first novel I’ve ever read in English was translated from Japanese. So, don’t even talk about how awkward my sentences were back then. Heck, maybe it’s still somewhat awkward even now, but I’m still improving~ lol

 

[Agentt]

I think that was supposed to be a joke, supposedly referring to semi colons and colons and punctuations in grammar, but ended up using the colon that referred to the body organ. It's not funny anymore though that I explained it.

Geez, I know that, you are the one who didn't get the joke, I meant that a sandwich and my friend's colon is the same.


You still have ways to go

 

[Temple]

I meant that a sandwich and my friend's colon is the same.

My brain is foggy from rushing out a chapter. I saw you say that the two sentences were the same. And I thought, yeah, eating sandwich and eating friend's colon is the same, what's the problem with it? And I assumed you didn't understand the semi colon joke. The reason I thought eating sandwich and a human colon is the same was because I was in the zone writing my MC that eats people and monsters.

I better just finish this chapter.

 

[Agentt]

yeah, eating sandwich and eating friend's colon is the same,

Have you ever wondered perhaps this is why you don't have many friends?

 

[Temple]

Have you ever wondered perhaps this is why you don't have many friends?

I did some research, and turns out people can live without a colon. I never knew that before this. lol.


Anyway, this is getting derailed, I'll try to help out OP haha. I checked your latest chapter a bit @Park_NamByul

Full of disbelief, he frowned, “How the hell this arrow made of Devakastha is here?”

This here, you're using an action tag like a dialogue tag. Should be period, not a comma after frowned.

“I think now those arrows won’t come anymore,” he pursed his lips

He shouldn't be able to talk if he pursed his lips then? I know what you meant to say here, but the way it's written means differently. And again, you're using an action tag like a dialogue tag. You repeatedly do that throughout the chapter.

I also see that you're trying to avoid using the word said. It's really fine to have tons of said. 'Said' just disappears when a reader is speeding through the chapter. It's going to get weird if you keep forcing yourself to do all sorts of stuff to avoid said. JK Rowling is a famous author, but I don't think you want to follow this example of hers:

 

[BearlyAlive]

We should all ejaculate more, though.

On another note: Imma un-native (in-native? What's the opposite of native? The more I look, the stranger stranger sounds) myself and I noticed a distinctive lack of articles in a lot of stories here.

"Boar charging at house near river, ignoring fence and rushing straight in door"... Already sounds not as good with all the articles, but without those...

 

[Cipiteca396]

On another note: Imma un-native (in-native? What's the opposite of native? The more I look, the stranger stranger sounds) myself and I noticed a distinctive lack of articles in a lot of stories here.

Foreign.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Foreign.

Damn thanks, totally forgot this word existed xD

 

[Park_NamByul]

I did some research, and turns out people can live without a colon. I never knew that before this. lol.


Anyway, this is getting derailed, I'll try to help out OP haha. I checked your latest chapter a bit @Park_NamByul



This here, you're using an action tag like a dialogue tag. Should be period, not a comma after frowned.



He shouldn't be able to talk if he pursed his lips then? I know what you meant to say here, but the way it's written means differently. And again, you're using an action tag like a dialogue tag. You repeatedly do that throughout the chapter.

I also see that you're trying to avoid using the word said. It's really fine to have tons of said. 'Said' just disappears when a reader is speeding through the chapter. It's going to get weird if you keep forcing yourself to do all sorts of stuff to avoid said. JK Rowling is a famous author, but I don't think you want to follow this example of hers:

View attachment 12373

Thank you so much. It's helpful.

 

[guguqa]

I have always been thinking that grammar is the hardest thing for me in studying English, but then I started getting acquainted with punctuation. And my world has changed.

 

[TheDylanDrakes]

I am a native English speaker (Australia counts, right? :-P). I was also an English language teacher for five years, mostly to Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese students. So grammar and me are fairly tight.

I have huge respect for anyone who attempts creative writing in a second (or third) language, particularly because English is such an awful tongue to learn.

1. Why do we PLAY football and golf, but DO gymnastics and swimming?
2. Why is every ch in, 'the church sells ochre champagne', pronounced differently?
3. Why do we have rules like 'i before e, except after c' for spelling, when there are actually more instances of the rule being wrong, than right.
4. Why, if you say the word 'water' in an Australian, British, and American accent, is the only consistent sound the w?

My advice would be:

1. Don't beat yourself up. English is hard. Really hard.
2. Don't set unrealistic expectations. I know many native speakers who struggle with writing in particular. I have a doctor friend who had to write an application for medical school. He is a genius, intellectually. He speaks very clearly. But his first draft was like a toddler had written it.
3. Keep your grammar simple, then expand. Go with short sentences and simple construction. Get that right, then grow from there.
4. Try to get a basic understanding of what a comma is for.
5. Remember, perfection really doesn't matter (online, in particular). Most of the top stories on SH, or any of these sites, are barely English, and no-one seems to care. Have fun and give it a go!
6. Install Grammarly. It won't solve everything, but it will help. A lot.

 

[LynaForge]

So, this is a thread for the native English speakers or for those who think that they are good at English.

I just want you guys to tell non-native speakers or those who are not really good at English about what kind of problem (grammer or anything) you guys catch/see most of the time when you read a story/novel by non-native speakers.

(Some mistakes people make without even knowing that it was incorrect or wrong. (You guys can tell me if I made any mistake in this thread.))

Probably prepositions (in, by, under, on) etc. but overall, I don't mind books by non-native speakers if the story is interesting. I've edited short stories of non-native speakers before if I really liked the story.

btw, the pronunciation is 'grammer' but the spelling is 'grammar' and I don't think you should worry about it. Just write and enjoy yourself.

Have you ever wondered perhaps this is why you don't have many friends?

Why do we PLAY football and golf, but DO gymnastics and swimming?

I imagine because there are objects involved? Instruments we HOLD and or move around. While swimming and gymnastics requires only the body and nothing more???

ochre champagne

Mayhaps because English comes from a dialect of German and these words are probably borrowed from Latin??


Oh no, I think I've gone too far down the rabbit hole...