Would you advise your friend to marry for money?

[ohko]

Another cookie for you to chew on today

You have an online friend who is about 32 years old. She is engaged to her fiancé (who she has been in a relationship with for ~10 years), and previously you thought she had a great relationship. However, she confides to you one day that lately she isn't sure if she loves her fiancé anymore, and she's been having doubts about her feelings for the last 2-3 years.​

​

Her circumstances are a bit complicated. One point is that she has a criminal record (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail) which makes it very difficult for her to find a decent job. Her fiancé supports her financially, which makes their relationship strained because she feels pressure to do whatever he asks (e.g. "Do this" "Do that"), she thinks he is self-centered, and doesn't listen to her at all. She spends so much time online because she is escaping from reality. She is grateful for the fact that he never abandoned her since the beginning, but your friend is increasingly beginning to doubt whether she really loves him.​

​

She doesn't have great options if she leaves her fiancé. Uh... Live off of welfare and hope for the best?​

What would you tell her?

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Another cookie for you to chew on today

You have an online friend who is about 32 years old. She is engaged to her fiancé (who she has been in a relationship with for ~10 years), and previously you thought she had a great relationship. However, she confides to you one day that lately she isn't sure if she loves her fiancé anymore, and she's been having doubts about her feelings for the last 2-3 years.​

​

Her circumstances are a bit complicated. One point is that she has a criminal record (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail) which makes it very difficult for her to find a decent job. Her fiancé supports her financially, which makes their relationship strained because she feels pressure to do whatever he asks (e.g. "Do this" "Do that"), she thinks he is self-centered, and doesn't listen to her at all. She spends so much time online because she is escaping from reality. She is grateful for the fact that he never abandoned her since the beginning, but your friend is increasingly beginning to doubt whether she really loves him.​

​

She doesn't have great options if she leaves her fiancé. Uh... Live off of welfare and hope for the best?​

What would you tell her?

Alright there are two simple options, and it all depends on how hard the person is willing to work if she REALLY doesnt wanna marry him.

Lets go with the easiest option first. For this, i would tell them this: Bitch stop being a depressive little cunt and WORK ON YOUR GODDAMN RELATIONSHIP. The dude himself may not even know anything is wrong. Fucking speak up. Enough of this weak ass "i dont know if i love him i feel so pressured" bullshit. Either grow some balls and talk with him, get some counselling maybe, whatever you gotta do...or get out of the relationship.

Which leads into the second option. Leaving him. I dont even know the exact situation, so if the relationship is abusive emotionally or physically then yeah she should get help and leave him just on principle. Otherwise, if she just doesnt love him, then she has no reason to stay other than money and that makes her kinda a gold digging bitch but im not gonna blame people for tryna do whats best for themselves. Here tho, they choose to leave.

So...i would tell her to look for a job BEFORE leaving him. Do some prep work. There has to be organizations or groups that help people with past criminal records find jobs. It'd be stupid to think there arent since this is such a commonplace situation for people and obviously they need help. So maybe try to find a group that can connect her to jobs that actually give you a chance despite the past crimes.

If you are gonna leave a person you depend on financially at the moment, you have to start preparing to live without them before that. You dont always get the opportunity for this. A lot of people just leave the person without any plan. Thats stupid. If its not going to hurt you, endure a little bit

You can be smart about both options. Either work on the relationship like how a person should before leaving a person they spent years with and making such an impactful choice, or leave but do it in a way where you already have a job to fall back on. Or hell, do they have family they can rely on? If so, i would tell them to just live with them for a while if possible if they want out immediately.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Another cookie for you to chew on today

You have an online friend who is about 32 years old. She is engaged to her fiancé (who she has been in a relationship with for ~10 years), and previously you thought she had a great relationship. However, she confides to you one day that lately she isn't sure if she loves her fiancé anymore, and she's been having doubts about her feelings for the last 2-3 years.​

​

Her circumstances are a bit complicated. One point is that she has a criminal record (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail) which makes it very difficult for her to find a decent job. Her fiancé supports her financially, which makes their relationship strained because she feels pressure to do whatever he asks (e.g. "Do this" "Do that"), she thinks he is self-centered, and doesn't listen to her at all. She spends so much time online because she is escaping from reality. She is grateful for the fact that he never abandoned her since the beginning, but your friend is increasingly beginning to doubt whether she really loves him.​

​

She doesn't have great options if she leaves her fiancé. Uh... Live off of welfare and hope for the best?​

What would you tell her?

Ah, Italian family law is Draconian and unless her husband intends to set up a marriage contract - I recommend that strongly. In general, why do you even marry? Lot of legal obligations and minefields -, she should of course marry him. In the case of a divorce she will have good cards as the courts are rigged and always judge pro-women anyway.

 

[gaylolis]

as someone who's not married yet despite my age, i think the answer is no

 

[AliceShiki]

Honestly, Cupcake nailed it, there's not much more I could say.

Like, my first advice would be... "Go get a psychologist and start talking about it." Possibly a psychologist for the couple instead of just for her.

Like... Geez, the relationship is in trouble, start working on seeing if it can be fixed or if it needs to be split, but don't simply endure it for the rest of your life, nor give up without trying to salvage it. Go get help from a specialist.

At the end of the day, we're online friends, I could have heard about this person's most intimate secrets, but I still can't know much their environment or the point of view of the people they live with... It's just hard to get those impressions when you don't see and talk to them and the people near them directly, everything I know of their life I know from their words, not from my eyes... It's hard for me to give advice on their relationship with other people, I don't know these people.

For help with those, you need the aid of someone that is aware of your situation on a more direct level. Either a close friend that knows your fiancé, or a psychologist... Possibly both.

 

[Moctemma]

I would tell her to put her fears aside and think of what she wants, not what she doesn't want to happen, but the things she really wants.

 

[Yorda]

She is engaged to her fiancé (who she has been in a relationship with for ~10 years)

That's a long time for nothing to be resolved! If it's truly that hard for her to get a job then it makes me wonder what poor country she lives in.

WORK ON YOUR GODDAMN RELATIONSHIP.

One would have thought she had the chance over the past 10 years. XD

So...i would tell her to look for a job BEFORE leaving him. Do some prep work ...

If you are gonna leave a person you depend on financially at the moment, you have to start preparing to live without them before that. You dont always get the opportunity for this. A lot of people just leave the person without any plan. Thats stupid. If its not going to hurt you, endure a little bit

Good thinking! People dumping each other without thinking is a sign of good financial health. They can dump people with an easygoing mind because the actual demerits of doing so are quite small compared with the benefit of appeasing their fickle personalities.

If I was in some kind of difficult personal situation like an engagement with these problems there would be so many more things I would be considering, but for the sake of answering the question I will turn off my morality. The girl is kinda a big shot criminal anyways (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail) and she seems to be unable to apply for a criminal history pardon. I will also accept the situation as giving absolute facts, which means that she really would have nothing good after she breaks her engagement.

I would just look at the engagement in terms of profit and loss (opportunity cost for you economists).

Engagement
-comfort
-financial well-being to the point where she can play on the internet
-financial well-being to the point where she has time to worry about love
-doesn't need to work
-she only had doubts in the last 2-3 years which means for 7-8 years she thought they had real love between them (that's really not bad)
-her fiance is okay with her mooching and criminal history

No Engagement
-no comfort
-needs to work hard
-no recreational activity time
-no guarantee of finding love even though she left somebody she wasn't sure about
-world is not okay with her mooching and criminal nature

Other comments.

Really girl, just give up on loving him. Get married, have a child, love the child, divorce, and take half his assets (and the child), find somebody else.

I see absolutely no gain in the no engagement route. Her main reason for leaving him would be love, but there is no guarantee that she would ever be fulfilled by a romance. It's like she's a fucking idiot, but then again I don't know what love means to her. It seems that she has a poorly thought out fantasy involving some ideal love that would make her happy, and is willing to make seriously bad decisions without any concrete planning. A fucking idiot. She sounds like the type that can't deal with a harsh life though, an airhead like her should just maintain the status quo.

 

[ohko]

That's a long time for nothing to be resolved! If it's truly that hard for her to get a job then it makes me wonder what poor country she lives in.

I think a distinction is between an ability to get any job, versus a job that she is satisfied with.

I think it is somewhat implied that her fiance brings in big cash and is fine with her not working... so in that kind of circumstance, would you feel a strong urge to work as a cashier that earns pennies in comparison? The motivation is sort of low because it's harder for her to enter into professions with higher earning potentials with her criminal record.

 

[Yorda]

I think a distinction is between an ability to get any job, versus a job that she is satisfied with.

I think it is somewhat implied that her fiance brings in big cash and is fine with her not working... so in that kind of circumstance, would you feel a strong urge to work as a cashier that earns pennies in comparison? The motivation is sort of low because it's harder for her to enter into professions with higher earning potentials with her criminal record.

That sounds like it would make any profit seeking intelligent being even more adverse to resolving their engagement.

 

[ohko]

That sounds like it would make any profit seeking intelligent being even more adverse to resolving their engagement.

Hey, just because she has a history as a villainess doesn't mean she can't have a romantic streak to her.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

That's a long time for nothing to be resolved! If it's truly that hard for her to get a job then it makes me wonder what poor country she lives in.



One would have thought she had the chance over the past 10 years. XD



Good thinking! People dumping each other without thinking is a sign of good financial health. They can dump people with an easygoing mind because the actual demerits of doing so are quite small compared with the benefit of appeasing their fickle personalities.

If I was in some kind of difficult personal situation like an engagement with these problems there would be so many more things I would be considering, but for the sake of answering the question I will turn off my morality. The girl is kinda a big shot criminal anyways (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail). I will also accept the situation as giving absolute facts, which means that she really would have nothing good after she breaks her engagement.

I would just look at the engagement in terms of profit and loss (opportunity cost for you economists).

Engagement
-comfort
-financial well-being to the point where she can play on the internet
-financial well-being to the point where she has time to worry about love
-doesn't need to work
-she only had doubts in the last 2-3 years which means for 7-8 years she thought they had real love between them (that's really not bad)
-her fiance is okay with her mooching and criminal history

No Engagement
-no comfort
-needs to work hard
-no recreational activity time
-no guarantee of finding love even though she left somebody she wasn't sure about
-world is not okay with her mooching and criminal nature

Other comments.

Really girl, just give up on loving him. Get married, have a child, love the child, divorce, and take half his assets (and the child), find somebody else.

I see absolutely no gain in the no engagement route. Her main reason for leaving him would be love, but there is no guarantee that she would ever be fulfilled by a romance. It's like she's a fucking idiot, but then again I don't know what love means to her. It seems that she has a poorly thought out fantasy involving some ideal love that would make her happy, and is willing to make seriously bad decisions without any concrete planning. A fucking idiot. She sounds like the type that can't deal with a harsh life though, an airhead like her should just maintain the status quo.

Eh. You give people too much credit by assuming they have financial health just by being able to up and leave their partners. In my answer i had to specify the girl didnt have that, at least. Really people just get so emotional and do things they shouldnt and then cry when they realize they shouldnt have been quite so hasty when they didnt do any preparations beforehand. But most people likely dont have such poor situations like this girl. If they have poor financial situations it would normally be due to laziness unless they have an injury pr, like this girl, a record. So i guess most wont have to worry TOO much if they simply walk out of the relationship one day.

But yeah. That aside I dont see couples seeking relationship help very often. You would THINK they would have had time to talk out their issues in a relationship that long, but no. Thats not always the case, or maybe even not often. We dont normally like to talk about things like that, thats why. Least not bring it into the open amd tell other people. Like i said too, the guy might not know anything is wrong.

I mean that can be a sign of carelessness, yeah, but like people arent mind readers either so i give the benefit of the doubt till more info is presented usually.

Its a big choice, leaving someone you been with that long. Lack of love could be the only reason, or there could be others. Unless there is abuse, tho, i would normally just advise them to get counseling. Its the least one can do to try and salvage the relationship.

 

[Vaerama]

Another cookie for you to chew on today

You have an online friend who is about 32 years old. She is engaged to her fiancé (who she has been in a relationship with for ~10 years), and previously you thought she had a great relationship. However, she confides to you one day that lately she isn't sure if she loves her fiancé anymore, and she's been having doubts about her feelings for the last 2-3 years.​

​

Her circumstances are a bit complicated. One point is that she has a criminal record (fraud/embezzlement/bribery/blackmail) which makes it very difficult for her to find a decent job. Her fiancé supports her financially, which makes their relationship strained because she feels pressure to do whatever he asks (e.g. "Do this" "Do that"), she thinks he is self-centered, and doesn't listen to her at all. She spends so much time online because she is escaping from reality. She is grateful for the fact that he never abandoned her since the beginning, but your friend is increasingly beginning to doubt whether she really loves him.​

​

She doesn't have great options if she leaves her fiancé. Uh... Live off of welfare and hope for the best?​

What would you tell her?

Firstly, that such a situation is alarmingly specific

If the options for leaving are 'live off welfare and hope for the best': well, that sounds like an unlikely environment for one to 'find love' in, which if she's concerned about marrying someone she doesn't love, then I don't see how putting herself in a situation where the quality of her prospective partners will be contentious would be doing her any favors.

As for jobs... I mean, having to work sucks. Having a partner who actually successfully fiscally supports another person all on their own enables so much that's good in life that to turn away from them without a plan, when prospects are poor to the point that someone who currently doesn't work and historically hasn't been working for a long while (which probably means they either don't have a lot of drive, or desire to work in the first place (if they wanted to work, they would have found something to do by now, and probably someone who let them do it)).... would be so disastrous to their own life that I cannot for the life of me see the slightest positive in it.

Certainly, it sucks to feel drawn towards escaping reality... but the reality is that there is no escaping reality in a situation where food, shelter, water, and a provider cannot be guaranteed.

Usually when unemployed people (specifically ones who otherwise have no safety net or assets of their own) leave their partners: it's because they have someone else waiting in the wings to catch them. Unless said hypothetical internet friend happens to have any other option than *maybe government care*: leaving the relative safety of a life which could be more fulfilling is just... ludicrous. It isn't a mistake that most people (men too) wait to leave their partners until they find a 'better' one.

 

[Vaerama]

Hey, just because she has a history as a villainess doesn't mean she can't have a romantic streak to her.

Well, that's what 'affairs' are for.

 

[AliceShiki]

Well, that's what 'affairs' are for.

That's not advice you should give to people! >.<

 

[Vaerama]

That's not advice you should give to people! >.<

Morally speaking, or....?

I mean, it's already a situation where not everybody will be happy. Either the husband to be likes the wife to be and will be crushed by her wanting to end their relationship, or he doesn't like his wife to be and can go ahead and freely say 'good riddance' in which case the wife to be is then homeless with no assets for at least a short while.

Nobody wins in this damnation game.

The only 'positive' paths forward for anyone involved in this specific situation are either to stay together and try to be more lovey-dovey-happy... or for her to have affairs/date while still bound in the infinite pre-matrimony of betrothal until she can leave the husband to be and 'hopefully' be happy with the new guy. The guy's going to suffer either way, so morally speaking: keeping the girl's suffering down may infact be the 'happiest' path forward short of making up with her husband (which I would suggest a thousand times first).

 

[AliceShiki]

Morally speaking, or....?

I mean, it's already a situation where not everybody will be happy. Either the husband to be likes the wife to be and will be crushed by her wanting to end their relationship, or he doesn't like his wife to be and can go ahead and freely say 'good riddance' in which case the wife to be is then homeless with no assets for at least a short while.

Nobody wins in this damnation game.

The only 'positive' paths forward for anyone involved in this specific situation are either to stay together and try to be more lovey-dovey-happy... or for her to have affairs/date while still bound in the infinite pre-matrimony of betrothal until she can leave the husband to be and 'hopefully' be happy with the new guy. The guy's going to suffer either way, so morally speaking: keeping the girl's suffering down may infact be the 'happiest' path forward short of making up with her husband (which I would suggest a thousand times first).

Morally speaking first and foremost, but also on a practical sense, you can expect hell to break loose if he finds out she had an affair... Not to mention she might feel very guilty about the whole thing and that could give her some serious issues in the long run.

Like, geez, if you really need someone else in your relationship, suggesting Polyamory might make a lot more sense than an affair...

 

[ohko]

Firstly, that such a situation is alarmingly specific

I have a character that is exactly like this, which is probably why it feels very specific.

Like, geez, if you really need someone else in your relationship, suggesting Polyamory might make a lot more sense than an affair...

The guy I have in mind probably would not be very open to polyamory.

TBH I was actually planning to set up the female lead for an affair.

 

[AliceShiki]

I have a character that is exactly like this, which is probably why it feels very specific.


The guy I have in mind probably would not be very open to polyamory.

TBH I was actually planning to set up the female lead for an affair.

 

[ohko]

*patspats*

 

[Vaerama]

Morally speaking first and foremost, but also on a practical sense, you can expect hell to break loose if he finds out she had an affair... Not to mention she might feel very guilty about the whole thing and that could give her some serious issues in the long run.

Like, geez, if you really need someone else in your relationship, suggesting Polyamory might make a lot more sense than an affair...

Oooh nonononono. Dangerous move, polyamory. Way worse than an affair, where clear lines are drawn. Polyamory on an already shaky relationship doesn't spice things up: it shatters the shaky relationship, and either one set pairs off... or everyone just walks away from it hurt. My marriage absolutely would survive a third partner for life (specifically a girl, takin applications, get in line! xD), but none of my previous 'relationships' were so lucky to survive mere sexual looseness in undefined relationships, let alone the actual polyamory with real emotional stakes. Either the polyamory stops, or the relationship stops. It's the sort of thing that can only be built on a solid foundation, and even then: the chance that you find a partner that is actually remotely-equally attracted to two people of different sexes is... it's extremely low.

It's not just in my relationships either. My elder sister's 'new' husband, after having like 6 kids with one lady, decided alongside his first wife 'hey, lets spice it up', and they then were a package deal with my old sunday school teacher lady. Until his first wife decided 'actually, she treats me like, way better, and the sex is better too', and the guy was not only cuckolded by a woman, but she also got the house and child support from the divorce... not to mention a snazzy new lover! Guess who's no longer together: the IRL total GL-cuckolding of the Macho Man didn't even stick! >___<

I even had it from the opposite perspective with my last longer term relationship, well... rather it should be said that I mostly just let her go for it, because the relationship's foundation was inherently unstable and I didn't think we'd be dating/together for very long at all.

Spoiler: TMI TLDR

She was like, hey, let's get 3p going with *some guy* who was pretty scrawny looking, and I said 'whatever, sure'. Didn't work out, as he was almost as uninterested in seeing me naked as I was in seeing him, but I left her to it, and I did some soul searching as I hung out with the guy's way-sexier 60 year old father outside. That was actually really fun even despite the emotional hoopla that was her being entirely willing to throw me under the bus just to get dicked. I didn't care even the slightest about her having sex with guys where I didn't have to see it, but I certainly cared where that overlapped with 'having sex with me'. She apologized loads the next morning when she came back, but the only thing I cared about was the order of operations in her head. I mean, me.... if I'm in a relationship with someone already, and we're going to get frisky with someone and the person I'm in a relationship is more or less kicked out of the room: I'd be stickin with my partner, yknow? Still, relationship was a pitiable disaster that lasted almost 4 years, and not even one of the 3 times we got around to actual polyamory did it remotely work out for us.

As a complete aside relating to the subject of free love/polyamory/affairs: I'm still pissed about her breaking down over airport guy. I've never had a kiss that awesome, not before or since: the guy was like walking talking pheromones that just oozed with class and sex (he was harder to look at for me than a rusalka was for Mira in Falling Petals). She'd tried to sleep with some guy and his wife (didn't work out, they'd had a baby and he decided to pull the 'I'm a serious husband' card on her after inviting her, lol) the very night that I'd boarded the plane to go, and I was all 'glhf'. Then when I asked her if she minded if I slept with only the hottest man on fucking Earth and he fucking *dug* me in the ANC airport, and at first I got a yes texted back, and so everything was just awesome. You've never known attraction until you've decided that getting a cab and a hotel (omg he was going to pay for it all too fuckfuckfuck FUCK I missed out) is a completely reasonable thing to do from an airport at 2 in the morning... until she broke down over text and I missed out on airport guy (I shall never forget the missed opportunities) because I had to console her own unfortunate failure to get laid (I mean, she could have asked me before I left, but no dice). Never forgive. Never forget. Polyamory or greater sexual freedom with an emotionally weak love interest fucking blows, fam, especially when you check your phone while the sexiest man who may have ever lived goes and buys you a water from the vending machine. Forgiveness > Permission in circumstances like that. She'd left me hanging for two months before it >_____< Fuck always doing 'the moral' thing: sometimes you've just got to do the selfish thing for your own sake!

Anyway: if OP's mystery friend's core concern was truly the type who would feel guilty for her actions: she wouldn't be contemplating leaving the relationship/breaking up without talking to him. At that point: an affair isn't likely enough in my mind to cause her any more guilt than she might otherwise have.