The making of a popular story (and the use of marketing and project management)

[CupcakeNinja]

Also here, I highly recommend these gems
Yandere Dating System by SexOnThreeLegs.
My Sister the Villainess by IkemanSupreme
and a personal favorite, Siblings by Day Lovers by Night from God'sGiftToWomen

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

That's because saying writing is nothing without readers is wrong. Your writings have meaning to you, and at the end of the day that's what matters most. That your writings helped you through whatever you were going through in life, that's what gives it meaning, purpose. There is a reason people have personal journals/diaries. It's not for others, it's for themselves and it's just as meaningful as any other piece of work they may have written.

Frostbird, you can definitely talk the talk, but can you also walk the walk?

The point is that many authors on this site struggle to gain a considerable audience, which erodes their self-confidence eventually. I have seen it often enough happening. Due to a lack of commitment and attention from the readers, the author will lose faith. They need encouragement, comments, views to keep writing. It is easy to finish a large story with much support behind your shoulders, it is hard to so without it.

Everything else is just a disingenuous lie on your part to make feel people better. Don't sugar coat with the old lie.

 

[UYScuti]

Frostbird, you can definitely talk the talk, but can you also walk the walk?

View attachment 5043

The point is that many authors on this site struggle to gain a considerable audience, which erodes their self-confidence eventually. I have seen it often enough happening. Due to a lack of commitment and attention from the readers, the author will lose faith. They need encouragement, comments, views to keep writing. It is easy to finish a large story with much support behind your shoulders, it is hard to so without it.

Everything else is just a disingenuous lie on your part to make feel people better. Don't sugar coat with the old lie.

100% true. At some point you question why you bother spending the hours if nobody reads or interacts with you. Stories go on hiatus and eventually they’re dropped.

 

[ForestDweller]

Frostbird, you can definitely talk the talk, but can you also walk the walk?

View attachment 5043

The point is that many authors on this site struggle to gain a considerable audience, which erodes their self-confidence eventually. I have seen it often enough happening. Due to a lack of commitment and attention from the readers, the author will lose faith. They need encouragement, comments, views to keep writing. It is easy to finish a large story with much support behind your shoulders, it is hard to so without it.

Everything else is just a disingenuous lie on your part to make feel people better. Don't sugar coat with the old lie.

100% true. At some point you question why you bother spending the hours if nobody reads or interacts with you. Stories go on hiatus and eventually they’re dropped.

Exactly. I only managed to get this far with my story because people tell me they're interested in it and that they want to read more of it.

If not for them, I would've abandoned it. Just like I did my old stories.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Frostbird, you can definitely talk the talk, but can you also walk the walk?

View attachment 5043

The point is that many authors on this site struggle to gain a considerable audience, which erodes their self-confidence eventually. I have seen it often enough happening. Due to a lack of commitment and attention from the readers, the author will lose faith. They need encouragement, comments, views to keep writing. It is easy to finish a large story with much support behind your shoulders, it is hard to so without it.

Everything else is just a disingenuous lie on your part to make feel people better. Don't sugar coat with the old lie.

To add to this point, I just expect less in my work.

See, no matter how hard my work and try my best to attend even to the minute details with my story, readers can still pan and diss it, much to my discouragement. (Especially my MC, which is based on my culture and values)

Much worse, I've seen some convince the others to drop my work. I tell myself not to get affected, that those are good riddance, but still I'm affected and shaken when that happens.

So yeah, the lesser the expectation, the less hurt, pain and discouragement it is for me.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

To add to this point, I just expect less in my work.

See, no matter how hard my work and try my best to attend even to the minute details with my story, readers can still pan and diss it, much to my discouragement.

Much worse, I've seen some convince the others to drop my work. I tell myself not to get affected, that those are good riddance, but still I'm affected and shaken when that happens.

So yeah, the lesser the expectation, the less hurt, pain and discouragement it is for me.

Spoiler: Emergency hug

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Spoiler: Emergency hug

View attachment 5047

Nah, I'm used to such events.

It was honestly a shock, but I came to accept the fact that I'm just one mediocre writer who thought hard work and consistency is key to success.

I was wrong. LoL

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Nah, I'm used to such events.

It was honestly a shock, but I came to accept the fact that I'm just one mediocre writer who thought hard work and consistency is key to success.

I was wrong. LoL

The age old question, what do you do when the talented people work hard too?

 

[Deleted member 29316]

The age old question, what do you do when the talented people work hard too?

I encourage them. As much as possible, give them the push to improve even better.

If passing negativity is easy, then passing goodness is easier.

(See, I kill with kindness.)

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I've seen students with potential lose focus and the sight of their goals because of nasty reviews and comments. I tell them my experience and how I deal with things as an author.

There were now a few who's more successful than le moi, and I'm proud of them.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I've seen students with potential lose focus and the sight of their goals because of nasty reviews and comments. I tell them my experience and how I deal with things as an author.

There were now a few who's more successful than le moi, and I'm proud of them.

Wonderful, that makes everything less sad.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Wonderful, that makes everything less sad.

Btw, I also try to encourage new authors (as well as old ones that needs love) in the site by doing something on their story...

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Btw, I also try to encourage new authors (as well as old ones that needs love) in the site by doing something on their story...

I annoy them with my presence here on the forum and under their stories.

 

[EternalSunset0]

I realized I haven't actually chimed in to the discussion.

On one hand, I agree with Frostbird that the most important audience is yourself. At the end of the day, I think that you the author should be the happiest over your work.

On the other hand, I also think that having little to no readers will do a number of anyone's self-confidence as UYScuti said. I can really sympathize with the original poster of this post, having been in his other thread the other day and having read and enjoyed some of his work. I myself have felt the discouragement at some points, and it's admittedly disappointing if you post something you worked so hard on only to find little engagement. Confidence on yourself can only go so far in helping you push on, and that, only after coming to terms with some things about your work itself and/or the community.

I don't know how relatable it is to everyone, but I think that getting polarizing comments is actually more preferable than having a story with little engagement. I mean, stuff like the Transformers films are not critical masterpieces, but I'd imagine it would feel better to be in Michael Bay's position over some other director who headed some of the most critically-acclaimed films that don't get talked about.

Then again, as I said on some other thread, I'm the kind of guy who would be glad even if I can get only five or so active readers, provided those readers are actually engaged and form meaningful interactions through my story. I mean, in a way, when I think about it, I ultimately write to meet like-minded people and new friends anyway, so it might be different for me and I may not speak for everyone.

I think that at this point, it's better if we just try to be constructive and support each other's works whenever possible. You don't have to like everything, but at least try to make some people like OP feel welcome.

I have been here for just a short while, but I have seen how generally some people here are so supportive and close-knit with each other. Must be the effect of being a comparatively young site with forums that have the same people active, so the core group of ten or so people know each other. If we can extend that to the rest of the community and create a welcoming and supportive atmosphere, it would be really great.

 

[Deleted member 29081]

You're wrong because you presume everyone writes to be popular instead of any other reason.

You're wrong because luck is simply something people attribute to the reason why because the actual reason is too difficult to describe in a way that would become understandable.

I agree with your general premise but you're wrong because if that were true then people wouldn't post their work publicly in the first place.

To all three of you, I am so sorry. I am just so god damn bored.

How am I wrong? I'm not telling you that you should aspire to be a popular writer. By all means, go indy and hope you have a cult-following. All I'm saying is that J.K. Rowlings of the world wouldn't get to their level of fame without editors, publishers, marketers, etc. working day and night to make their stories stick.

 

[Frostbird]

Frostbird, you can definitely talk the talk, but can you also walk the walk?

View attachment 5043

The point is that many authors on this site struggle to gain a considerable audience, which erodes their self-confidence eventually. I have seen it often enough happening. Due to a lack of commitment and attention from the readers, the author will lose faith. They need encouragement, comments, views to keep writing. It is easy to finish a large story with much support behind your shoulders, it is hard to so without it.

Everything else is just a disingenuous lie on your part to make feel people better. Don't sugar coat with the old lie.

I have written long before I started an account on scribblehub, (I have a personal journal and other writings I have done for myself) and I will continue writing. There are people who get disheartened by not having readers, but that doesn't by no means make their writings worthless. If I had no readers I wouldn't think, "Oh, these writings are worthless." You want to know why? Because I've written before, without an audience, for only myself and I don't find it worthless. I know my value, I know the value of my writings. They carry weight, a personal weight, my expression. The same goes for another person's work. My post wasn't about finishing a story, losing faith or commitment. It was about if a story mattered to begin with. And the answer is yes. It did, and it does, even if one stopped, that story influenced the writer, it had a purpose even if that purpose has ended, it has moved them forward in life. And of course it sucks when you post on a writing site in the hopes of getting others to read your story and they don't. I'm not disputing otherwise, I never did. I'm disputing that just because they didn't get readers they shouldn't think their work is "nothing" or "meaningless."

If writing helped someone get through a hard time, it doesn't matter if no one else saw it, the writer did. Even if someone's story "bombed" in their eyes, they didn't get a single reader, it doesn't mean they didn't learn, they didn't improve. That story carries an experience, and sure sometimes people fall for the idea that the experience was meaningless. And that is exactly what I'm trying to tell people, that I disagree.
That their work wasn't meaningless. I never claimed anything about finishing a story or whatever you seem to be implying, I am saying that a person's story, their expression, their idea, had meaning, even if only to themselves, it meant something, it still does. That is what I believe. Accusing me of lying and being disingenuous by sharing my opinion isn't cool. No one comes to this site to get harassed because they shared their opinion on writing.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I have written long before I started an account on scribblehub, (I have a personal journal and other writings I have done for myself) and I will continue writing. There are people who get disheartened by not having readers, but that doesn't by no means make their writings worthless. If I had no readers I wouldn't think, "Oh, these writings are worthless." You want to know why? Because I've written before, without an audience, for only myself and I don't find it worthless. I know my value, I know the value of my writings. They carry weight, a personal weight, my expression. The same goes for another person's work. My post wasn't about finishing a story, losing faith or commitment. It was about if a story mattered to begin with. And the answer is yes. It did, and it does, even if one stopped, that story influenced the writer, it had a purpose even if that purpose has ended, it has moved them forward in life. And of course it sucks when you post on a writing site in the hopes of getting others to read your story and they don't. I'm not disputing otherwise, I never did. I'm disputing that just because they didn't get readers they shouldn't think their work is "nothing" or "meaningless."

If writing helped someone get through a hard time, it doesn't matter if no one else saw it, the writer did. Even if someone's story "bombed" in their eyes, they didn't get a single reader, it doesn't mean they didn't learn, they didn't improve. That story carries an experience, and sure sometimes people fall for the idea that the experience was meaningless. And that is exactly what I'm trying to tell people, that I disagree.
That their work wasn't meaningless. I never claimed anything about finishing a story or whatever you seem to be implying, I am saying that a person's story, their expression, their idea, had meaning, even if only to themselves, it meant something, it still does. That is what I believe. Accusing me of lying and being disingenuous by sharing my opinion isn't cool. No one comes to this site to get harassed because they shared their opinion on writing.

You are evading. I have basic knowledge of psychology and I know external validation factors are important, even necessary. Being an author is part of the self-actualisation category, but also of the esteem category. Productivity and motivation are linked to esteem and everyone yarns to appreciated for their work, otherwise you fell victim to self-delusion.

 

[gaylolis]

well it's just way to share and vent stuff to me, nothing much but it gets me by.

no readers? comments? no problem, i can just summon a spirit from somewhere, i guess? i think my writings would cater to their taste better than humans.

 

[thedude3445]

How am I wrong? I'm not telling you that you should aspire to be a popular writer. By all means, go indy and hope you have a cult-following. All I'm saying is that J.K. Rowlings of the world wouldn't get to their level of fame without editors, publishers, marketers, etc. working day and night to make their stories stick.

Yeah, and there is nobody on this forum who will come a tenth as close to Rowling's level of success, so it's not even worth considering. But there ARE indie authors who self-publishing and small presses to make just as much profit as top-level major publisher authors thanks to higher royalty levels. Mainstream success is controlled by the major conglomerates, but it's not an absolute necessity to make a living and create decently popular work. If web fiction and book publishing becomes a little bit more like video games (where one-person indie productions can become the top sellers of the year), we'll probably see this happening a lot more in the near future.

 

[jabathehut]

The stories that really get into people's minds are the ones that have the best marketing and project management behind them. A story isn't just words written on a page, but a full, collaborative effort by a team of professionals, who all work around the clock to make it so that Joe Schmoe takes a break from whatever he's doing to invest himself into your world.

That means getting shown on review sites (hopefully, in a positive light). Using search engine indexing. Getting sponsored by "reputable" publishers. Having a fandom astroturfed into an Internet presence via social media sites like Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook. Getting deals for adaptations. Etc., etc.

It's really a lot of work getting your story to be "the next big thing".

And here you are, the author, using your imagination and a keyboard to build the foundation for which countless people will spend the better part of their years promoting and investing in. If you're able to get that initial first contact, that is.

Most stories, when you think about it, are a dime a dozen. They have the same structure, motifs, and themes as anything that has been done before. Most stories aren't anything special.

It's the business that makes them feel that way to the reader (i.e., the consumer). They think, "Wow, that's interesting," not particularly because it's something they've never seen before, but simply because it was sold to them.

I mean this is only partially true. Its true that any story will be more successful with this backing but I think any good story that understands writing well will do alright regardless. Eragon is an example of this. I think this feeling is partly exacerbated because most big authors have already written several books(at least 5-7) by the time they get a big publishing.