Moderation and Slurs

[CL]

"The most swear-y my parents get is saying crap, sh?t or b?gger."

Spoiler

Bugger

is a slur? I was saying that as a kid in school and my teachers never "corrected" me. That makes me wonder how many other teachers find slurs natural to say in public (around kids too).

 

[Nahrenne]

Spoiler

Bugger

is a slur? I was saying that as a kid in school and my teachers never "corrected" me. That makes me wonder how many other teachers find slurs natural to say in public (around kids too).

I mean...my parents were teachers, too...

X

 

[Moonpearl]

(On another note, this shit doesn't fly on the Discord, so you can go there too if you're okay with fast-paced real-time chatting.)

I mean...none of my friends ever said it or meant a cigarette for the short version.
As for family, we don't really swear or say nasty things about people's sexual orientation.
'-'
The most swear-y my parents get is saying crap, sh?t or b?gger.
'-'
I only really say crap.
'-'

X

You've never heard it on TV or thrown around by losers at school? Interesting.

There's a wikipedia page on it here, but there's not a whole lot more to say about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

I immediately thought of the same one and was genuinely surprised that people honestly thought it might be fuck. I thought the latter was already somewhat of a colloquialism in English and wouldn't faze anyone anymore.

There are people from all over the world here, and some people are still very, vey sensitive to swearing and get upset about it.

But easy swearing is practically a part of my own culture, so... I choose it as I need it.

Spoiler

Bugger

is a slur? I was saying that as a kid in school and my teachers never "corrected" me. That makes me wonder how many other teachers find slurs natural to say in public (around kids too).

It's a slur. It's an offensive way to describe gay men. "Buggering" is a vulgar way of referring to anal sex.

However, it's so overused that it's all but lost its meaning until it's used against gay men.

 

[Angry_Clown]

I'd rather not link directly because I don't want this to become a "drama thread" or anything. That might be an inevitable pathway no matter what I try, though.

That's woke-speak for "I'm not gonna prove shit since I pulled that statement out of my ass to create unnecessary drama". This whole thread's purpose is drama and nothing more.

 

[CL]

I mean...my parents were teachers, too...

X

That is great!

It's a slur. It's an offensive way to describe gay men. "Buggering" is a vulgar way of referring to anal sex.

However, it's so overused that it's all but lost its meaning until it's used against gay men.

Back in the day (that makes me feel old), I couldn't say "piss" or "fuck" when telling anyone who bothered me to "bugger" off. I never received any punishment for saying that, but I had been lectured on sharing and playing with others (which I still don't do very well).

 

[Nahrenne]

You've never heard it on TV or thrown around by losers at school? Interesting.

I don't really watch TV.
When I do, I tend to watch stuff where there's no swearing since it's cooking channels, the news, nature programmes, or The One Show.
'-'

There's a wikipedia page on it here, but there's not a whole lot more to say about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

'o'
*huggles*

X

 

[Discount_Blade]

That's woke-speak for "I'm not gonna prove shit since I pulled that statement out of my ass to create unnecessary drama". This whole thread's purpose is drama and nothing more.

Well duh. What were you expecting? A logical argument? Woke's and Lib's don't do that sort of thing. It's too hard for them. I'm amused @Moonpearl is even here at all seeing as I've seen her toss the word "incel" around like raindrops during a hurricane on AT LEAST TWO occasions that I'm aware of. At least I'm upfront about it when I say I dislike someone. I'm very clear and open about my hostilities. It's part of my "charm" irl too.

 

[Moonpearl]

That is great!

Back in the day (that makes me feel old), I couldn't say "piss" or "fuck" when telling anyone who bothered me to "bugger" off. I never received any punishment for saying that, but I had been lectured on sharing and playing with others (which I still don't do very well).

It's bizarre how normalised it is. I used to get told off for saying it, but only because it was a ~mild~ bad word.

With the way bugger has been passed down, kids who learn it don't understand that it refers to gay men, and that's why it's been watered down. I knew buggering meant sex of some kind, but I'd never heard bugger used against anyone other than as a genric insult for someone annoying, or even as a way of just saying, "Oh, crap!"
I thought it came from actual bugs, because bugs are annoying.

Imagine my horror years later when I found out the truth (and also heard my dad spitting it out as a slur at gay men).

But we're actually taught a lot of slurs by teachers and adult figures without ever knowing that they're slurs. For example, it took me until adulthood to learn that this is a slur:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Gypsy

I still haven't managed to stop saying bugger even though I know the truth. However, it's so divorced from its old meaning, I wonder if I really need to...

 

[CL]

It's bizarre how normalised it is. I used to get told off for saying it, but only because it was a ~mild~ bad word.

With the way bugger has been passed down, kids who learn it don't understand that it refers to gay men, and that's why it's been watered down. I knew buggering meant sex of some kind, but I'd never heard bugger used against anyone other than as a genric insult for someone annoying, or even as a way of just saying, "Oh, crap!"
I thought it came from actual bugs, because bugs are annoying.

Imagine my horror years later when I found out the truth (and also heard my dad spitting it out as a slur at gay men).

But we're actually taught a lot of slurs by teachers and adult figures without ever knowing that they're slurs. For example, it took me until adulthood to learn that this is a slur:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Gypsy

I still haven't managed to stop saying bugger even though I know the truth. However, it's so divorced from its old meaning, I wonder if I really need to...

Some words transition towards new meanings or their demise. Until they get to that point, treat them with respect for what they still are.

 

[thedude3445]

I immediately thought of the same one and was genuinely surprised that people honestly thought it might be fuck. I thought the latter was already somewhat of a colloquialism in English and wouldn't faze anyone anymore.

It's definitely not a colloquialism in American English except among 4channer types whose existence mostly relies on being inflammatory and mean to everyone to make themselves feel better. There is a large subsection of "reclaimed slurs" where formerly offensive words have become used regularly by the community the words once insulted. The famous one is "queer," which has now become a catch-all term for LGBT+, and at least the US legal system was effectively lobbied that the word "dyke" was no longer offensive so the "Dykes on Bikes" organization could trademark their name. Apparently "bugger" is the same way in the UK, to the point that I didn't even know it was originally anything bad until today.

And like Moonpearl says, not all of these words are as innocent even if they are in common use. The term "gypsy" is often a source of controversy (though Being American I have never met any Romani people at all to know the situation there), and so is the term "eskimo." Older generations even still have some folk who use words like "Oriental" and "Chinaman" which while not explicitly insulting, have become much more rude over time.

The N-word is extremely controversial for this, though, and the f-slur has honestly become MORE offensive in the past ten years; you could once see people regularly use the term "fag hag" in the nineties as an affectionate term. You really don't see that at all anymore, though, which is why it creates such a hostile environment when people casually throw it out on this forum today.

 

[Moonpearl]

It's definitely not a colloquialism in American English except among 4channer types whose existence mostly relies on being inflammatory and mean to everyone to make themselves feel better. There is a large subsection of "reclaimed slurs" where formerly offensive words have become used regularly by the community the words once insulted. The famous one is "queer," which has now become a catch-all term for LGBT+, and at least the US legal system was effectively lobbied that the word "dyke" was no longer offensive so the "Dykes on Bikes" organization could trademark their name. Apparently "bugger" is the same way in the UK, to the point that I didn't even know it was originally anything bad until today.

And like Moonpearl says, not all of these words are as innocent even if they are in common use. The term "gypsy" is often a source of controversy (though Being American I have never met any Romani people at all to know the situation there), and so is the term "eskimo." Older generations even still have some folk who use words like "Oriental" and "Chinaman" which while not explicitly insulting, have become much more rude over time.

The N-word is extremely controversial for this, though, and the f-slur has honestly become MORE offensive in the past ten years; you could once see people regularly use the term "fag hag" in the nineties as an affectionate term. You really don't see that at all anymore, though, which is why it creates such a hostile environment when people casually throw it out on this forum today.

I'm pretty sure the word "dyke" is still one of those words that only WLW can use for themselves, since it's in active use as a slur against us.

It's been reclaimed, but only for the group to whom it was weaponised against.

The N-word is the same, I think. So long as it's black people who are using it, we have no right to complain, but... It's really hard to tell on a forum.

 

[Generic.Archdemon]

genuinely surprised that people honestly thought it might be fuck.

People? I think it was mainly me! I am old! OK!
I feel so old... I remember I had teachers that think the words "hell" "bloody' and "damn" was too racy to be used...

Plus the LGBTQ+ friends that I hang out with they don't tell me what insults gets thrown at them, we just hang out and have a good time! And I don't tell them what racist slurs I get on the odd occasion either... Slurs as a topic never really come up.

Our conversations are mostly, "Did you see the new Mandolorian?" Or "man, cyberpunk got delayed!"

I have shallow relationships....

It should be 40% personal responsibility, 60% website moderation IMO

I review my "ignores", I un-ignore them after 3 months and see if I have to throw them there again.

 

[thedude3445]

I'm pretty sure the word "dyke" is still one of those words that only WLW can use for themselves, since it's in active use as a slur against us.

It's been reclaimed, but only for the group to whom it was weaponised against.

The N-word is the same, I think. So long as it's black people who are using it, we have no right to complain, but... It's really hard to tell on a forum.

Right! It's all extremely complicated and the rule of thumb should be, "don't use words that will explicitly make certain people uncomfortable or feel unwelcome." Even if you feel that they are "just words" and you should be allowed to say whatever or that you are "allowed" to use the words, the point is that a whole lot of people don't like them, even if they are partially reclaimed or whatnot. Otherwise, people are being driven away from the community and the site will never grow. It's not a matter of policing language, but just common decency about not being a jerk to those around you.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

That's woke-speak for "I'm not gonna prove shit since I pulled that statement out of my ass to create unnecessary drama". This whole thread's purpose is drama and nothing more.

....dude you just proved him right with that comment. Didnt matter that he wanted to avoid it being a drama thread. You brought in shit like, "that's woke speak for blah blah blah "

Which made this thread open to mocking OP for being supposedly woke. And one person already agreed with you.

Listen mate. Ya cant use that word as a catch all term every time you think someone is being sensitive. I mean sure maybe you are right. But do you have reason to doubt him, even?

Well duh. What were you expecting? A logical argument? Woke's and Lib's don't do that sort of thing. It's too hard for them. I'm amused @Moonpearl is even here at all seeing as I've seen her toss the word "incel" around like raindrops during a hurricane on AT LEAST TWO occasions that I'm aware of. At least I'm upfront about it when I say I dislike someone. I'm very clear and open about my hostilities. It's part of my "charm" irl too.

I mean we have nothing to prove that OP made the thread to incite drama. Why so quick to make that assumption? I see him discussing with people, but that's about it. Not arguing or trying to make it a big issue

 

[yansusustories]

It's definitely not a colloquialism in American English

Just in case it wasn't quite clear: I meant "fuck" seemed like a colloquialism to me, definitely not the slur. I definitely only ever hear that one as being meant homophobic.

People? I think it was mainly me! I am old! OK!

Before Moonpearl jumped out, I actually wanted to reply to others and I caught at least three who didn't know so I don't think it's just you. Don't worry! And I also still know damn and bloody and I don't think I'm that old yet. I think ...

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Right! It's all extremely complicated and the rule of thumb should be, "don't use words that will explicitly make certain people uncomfortable or feel unwelcome." Even if you feel that they are "just words" and you should be allowed to say whatever or that you are "allowed" to use the words, the point is that a whole lot of people don't like them, even if they are partially reclaimed or whatnot. Otherwise, people are being driven away from the community and the site will never grow. It's not a matter of policing language, but just common decency about not being a jerk to those around you.

Again though, why should they be special? Why should we care that words we dont even mean harm by offend them? ...why so sensitive? Fine. Its makes them uncomfortable. Lots of things make me uncomfortable but no one gives a shit about that, now do they?

As long as it doesnt directly hurt them, I dont care if what I say offends or makes them uncomfortable

That said I CAN stop if asked nicely. But only if I'm speaking to that person. If I'm speaking to people other than them I will talk as I usually do. Which I find very fair.

 

[Moonpearl]

Right! It's all extremely complicated and the rule of thumb should be, "don't use words that will explicitly make certain people uncomfortable or feel unwelcome." Even if you feel that they are "just words" and you should be allowed to say whatever or that you are "allowed" to use the words, the point is that a whole lot of people don't like them, even if they are partially reclaimed or whatnot. Otherwise, people are being driven away from the community and the site will never grow. It's not a matter of policing language, but just common decency about not being a jerk to those around you.

Hm... I have difficulty with that one, though. As a queer woman, there are ways I speak that make straight people panic until they know I'm queer.

I get around it by making it explicitly clear that I'm part of the group who can use that all over my profile, but I still up with fools assuming I'm a man or a straight person.

It would be difficult for me to filter my speech to make straight people happy, though. Stifling, even.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

We don't have any moderators here, that's why. We used to have one, but they went MIA. Tony (site owner) is just too busy to take care of this place.

We extremely need moderators.

Until then, stick them on ignore like most other people do. It makes it a much, much nicer place.

Fag/faggot, if I'm right (saying it as a queer person myself)

I should be a mod. @Tony lets make it Happen. I'm a reasonable chap and im here every day.

Really its long overdue, my rise to Modhood.

 

[Angry_Clown]

nothing to prove

Fist: it's an appropriate term for woke-whoring, so I totally can and will use it.
Second: bringing up a non-existent issue, referring to non-existent "proof" and subsequently refusing to provide said proof is a drama-seeking behaviour if I ever saw one.

like raindrops during a hurricane

I'm stealing this.

It's bizarre how normalised it is.

the rule of thumb should be

Nothing bizarre about it. Because it is normal and always was. Nothing happens when you're offended. You do not "own" words and people's ability to utilize them however the fuck they see fit. "Oh no, some dude in the obscure thread on the internet said something offensive! And I was offended! And when I woke up next morning — I had leprosy!". Be offended, nothing will happen.

 

[Avidya]

Hm... I have difficulty with that one, though. As a queer woman, there are ways I speak that make straight people panic until they know I'm queer.

I get around it by making it explicitly clear that I'm part of the group who can use that all over my profile, but I still up with fools assuming I'm a man or a straight person.

It would be difficult for me to filter my speech to make straight people happy, though. Stifling, even.

It's similar the other way around. I'm part of multiple communities that when someone calls something a 'Trap' we know what that is. Astolfo, Chevalier d'Eon, Felix, and so on. But apparently the word also has negative connotations against... Crossdressing Transgenders or trans people who dress up as their trans gender or something? I kind of ignored the entire conversation cause weeb has basically usurped any negative connotations to the word for me and I found it silly.

People seem to forget that internet anonymity means you can be as much of a cunt to other people as you'd like. It's not uncommon in some groups to see people rapidly insulting the others in the worst ways, then 5 minutes later be talking about something completely different.

Words have as much power over you as you give to them- and just as Anonymity giveth, the Block function taketh away.