Setting of fantasy world

[Cold_Sun]

This might be kind of a hot take. So apologies in advance.

I see a lot of OEL webseries that are based in a chinese or japanese setting. There are cultivation realms, names, pysical features, honorifics and a lot of other tell-tale signs to signify that. Now I can understand if the author is from one of those countries or have resided in the place or researched their culture or society extensively. (Let me preface this by saying that watching anime and reading translations in not research) But otherwise why do this?

I know the lure is that you were first introduced to webseries through the translations and you see JP and CN stories do well in this medium. But the two do not necessarily have the same readership. And more importantly many readers are actually turned off by inadequately researched use of a foreign culture. It just feels off putting. Another thing that we should ask is why a world where characters speak in English use the chinese chinese cultivation realms or japanese honorifics. These things work for the audience they were made for.

I am not saying we should set all stories in Europe. That's another cringe-fest all together. What I am saying is this : stick to the culture that we are familiar with. Develop our own world instead of making a frankenstein monster of all CN novels we have read in our lifetime.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Err...that's what we've been trying to do? At least me and some of my colleagues and some of the authors I know here in SH?

 

[BenJepheneT]

I don't know about you but I enjoy the bastardised version of badly researched CN novels where the dynasties somehow get along with the Mongols very well, or the complete tonal whiplash you'd get from reading sentences like "Would you like to go to McDonald's for a steak burger, Yukiro-san?"

There's really nowhere else to find good and entertaining garbage than ScribbleHub.

 

[Xiaoshen]

Chinese culture =/= xianxia culture. I daresay the stereotypical Xianxia setting as it is now is it's own beast now, with the only true-to-china things carried over being the names and honorifics. Even the ones originating in China are like this.

 

[Cold_Sun]

Chinese culture =/= xianxia culture. I daresay the stereotypical Xianxia setting as it is now is it's own beast now, with the only true-to-china things carried over being the names and honorifics. Even the ones originating in China are like this.

Didn't know that. Tbh I would really like to read a story based in China. It's a country with a completely different environment from anywhere else. I read Metaworld Chronicles and it described the political situation with governors, the CCP and PLA, alongwith clans and power progenitors to some extent. Don't know how accurate it was. But it was fascinating and educational. Please do let me know if there is any you would recommend for me.

 

[Draculus-del-Viafat]

I've created my own fantasy world, filled up with kingdoms of many different cultures that one could probably call mocked from the reality, from European and American to Asian and Arabian, and I'm quite proubd of it, but I'm still doing some researches on the cultures I use as bases for my kingdoms. And I don't copy cultures, I only base my cultures on real cultures, even though I don't belong to those cultures and not very much familiar with them. I don't see anything bad in creating your own world without having much knowledge about the culture you use as a base because you make your own kind of culture anyway and only take some tips from another culture, altering it so it fits in your own world. Also, many writers tend to develop their fictional worlds throughout the entire novel, which is normal if you don't, like, publish books for career and don't expect people to buy them in bookstores.
And speaking about English language, have you ever asked yourself why in fantasy books or movies characters speak English? Probably because English doesn't represent English itself, but a fictional language that is used in the fictional world. The authors can't write a book in a fictional language, right? Also English may represent a well-known thing - a common language that is supposed to be used among people of different fictional countries that everyone knows and speaks. So the fact that English is also used in a fictional world based on Chinese, Japanese, or Korean cultures may represent a fictional language or a common language as well.

 

[Cold_Sun]

Err...that's what we've been trying to do? At least me and some of my colleagues and some of the authors I know here in SH?

You and your buddies are doing gods work!
TBH I would really like to see atleast a few more dedicated and quality authors on SH.

I don't know about you but I enjoy the bastardised version of badly researched CN novels where the dynasties somehow get along with the Mongols very well, or the complete tonal whiplash you'd get from reading sentences like "Would you like to go to McDonald's for a steak burger, Yukiro-san?"

There's really nowhere else to find good and entertaining garbage than ScribbleHub.

Let your enjoyment soon come to an end. Begone devil!

 

[OvidLemma]

Personally, when I create fantasy settings, I do that by taking a hodgepodge of historical ideas and one or more fantasy ideas, some of them original. In a fantasy story, it would be boring and unrewarding for me (not to mention way too much research) to exactly duplicate the mores and eccentricities of a historical setting, whether that is China under the Dragon Emperor or France under the Sun King. However, and I think this is key, a good author knows enough about what they're writing to portray a coherent society with few obvious anachronisms or cultural non sequiturs. When a work has lots of this (and assuming they're not in there on purpose for comedic effect), it suggests that the author is ignorant of the base subject matter and doesn't know what they don't know. A phenomenal writer may be able to overcome this by having enough amazing plotting and prose to outwrite their substantial flaws, but most of us mere mortals aren't that good. I suppose my main point is that most fantasy works portray "Frankenstein's monster" societies smooshed together out of plenty of component parts, but a good author can hide the stitches and scars enough to make their story enjoyable, even (especially!) to fairly knowledgeable readers.

 

[JayDirex]

The arguments for the Author's "Right" to create any world he/she wants, and to include Japanese honorifics is a BS smokescreen argument for the WEEBS of the world who want to mimic the light-novel authors of Japan and riddle their stories with "Onii-chan, tan, chan, and hime-sama," because they like reading all that. And dont give me no BS about no fgn research -_- those authors just like writing all that cringe for other readers who don't mind it

TO SUM UP: All that "chan" stuff is lame. But if the author thinks it's cool and people read it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ then in the end it's just an opinion.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

This might be kind of a hot take. So apologies in advance.

I see a lot of OEL webseries that are based in a chinese or japanese setting. There are cultivation realms, names, pysical features, honorifics and a lot of other tell-tale signs to signify that. Now I can understand if the author is from one of those countries or have resided in the place or researched their culture or society extensively. (Let me preface this by saying that watching anime and reading translations in not research) But otherwise why do this?

I know the lure is that you were first introduced to webseries through the translations and you see JP and CN stories do well in this medium. But the two do not necessarily have the same readership. And more importantly many readers are actually turned off by inadequately researched use of a foreign culture. It just feels off putting. Another thing that we should ask is why a world where characters speak in English use the chinese chinese cultivation realms or japanese honorifics. These things work for the audience they were made for.

I am not saying we should set all stories in Europe. That's another cringe-fest all together. What I am saying is this : stick to the culture that we are familiar with. Develop our own world instead of making a frankenstein monster of all CN novels we have read in our lifetime.

that's like saying black actors cant play fictional white characters. Not quite the same but its equally ridiculous. Fuck yall, if i wanna write like the story is a translated jap or Chinese work, i damn well will. Why? Cuz i like the fucking aesthetic. Whats it to ya?
Weird how you say stick to the culture we're familiar with like we arent veterans of hundreds of Japanese, korean and Chinese stories tho. I think some of us should know how to write a story with those cultural elements. Not that actual jap/chinese/korean stories usually go deep into their history anyway.

sorry if i sound mean here btw i just talk like this. it ain't personal so don't get pissy with me, young'un

 

[CupcakeNinja]

The arguments for the Author's "Right" to create any world he/she wants, and to include Japanese honorifics is a BS smokescreen argument for the WEEBS of the world who want to mimic the light-novel authors of Japan and riddle their stories with "Onii-chan, tan, chan, and hime-sama," because they like reading all that. And dont give me no BS about no fgn research -_- those authors just like writing all that cringe for other readers who don't mind it

TO SUM UP: All that "chan" stuff is lame. But if the author thinks it's cool and people read it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ then in the end it's just an opinion.

its a perfectly legit reason i dunno how you would argue its not. Anyway yeah its for aesthetic purposes tho. I do it too, just not hardcore. I sprinkle it in. I do have a story where the dude is reincarnated into a world where the U.S is now the United stated of New Japan and Abe Lincoln is a sword wielding vampire slayer tho, so i gotta mix that stuff in more often there. But it not all the time, you know? some people go full web and I'm too lazy for that shit. I ain't writing "Yuuji-kun/san/niichan" every fucking time people talk to him. Fuck that cheese yo.

 

[Cold_Sun]

that's like saying black actors cant play fictional white characters. Not quite the same but its equally ridiculous. Fuck yall, if i wanna write like the story is a translated jap or Chinese work, i damn well will. Why? Cuz i like the fucking aesthetic. Whats it to ya?
Weird how you say stick to the culture we're familiar with like we arent veterans of hundreds of Japanese, korean and Chinese stories tho. I think some of us should know how to write a story with those cultural elements. Not that actual jap/chinese/korean stories usually go deep into their history anyway.

sorry if i sound mean here btw i just talk like this. it ain't personal so don't get pissy with me, young'un

Write what ever the frick you wanna. Who the hell is stopping ye? Just don't crib when readers don't like it for frick's sake. Have some skin and take the beating when you know you willing to chose to go swimming in the drain.

I don't usually write like this but it was fun. Wanted to see how it felt, no hard feeling :D

 

[AliceShiki]

Another thing that we should ask is why a world where characters speak in English use the chinese chinese cultivation realms or japanese honorifics.

Yanno... Why do all humans in fantasy settings all share the same language even though they live in completely different countries, often times with entire oceans between them?

Because the author can only write their story in one language, that's why. So they're kinda forced to get rid of language barriers for the sake of telling the story.

So... Even if I wanted to make a Slice of Life story set in modern Japan and used all the usual honorifics, the story would still be in English because... Well, if I'm writing in Scribbly, I gotta write in English, that's just how it works.

 

[Cold_Sun]

Personally, when I create fantasy settings, I do that by taking a hodgepodge of historical ideas and one or more fantasy ideas, some of them original. In a fantasy story, it would be boring and unrewarding for me (not to mention way too much research) to exactly duplicate the mores and eccentricities of a historical setting, whether that is China under the Dragon Emperor or France under the Sun King. However, and I think this is key, a good author knows enough about what they're writing to portray a coherent society with few obvious anachronisms or cultural non sequiturs. When a work has lots of this (and assuming they're not in there on purpose for comedic effect), it suggests that the author is ignorant of the base subject matter and doesn't know what they don't know. A phenomenal writer may be able to overcome this by having enough amazing plotting and prose to outwrite their substantial flaws, but most of us mere mortals aren't that good. I suppose my main point is that most fantasy works portray "Frankenstein's monster" societies smooshed together out of plenty of component parts, but a good author can hide the stitches and scars enough to make their story enjoyable, even (especially!) to fairly knowledgeable readers.

Couldn't agree more. I am just advocating authors not to copy it just for the sake of giving it a CN fic feel. I see a lot of stories that are just elaborate reviews of exising CN novels. What I mean is that the stories will have different names of characters but will essentially plotwise nothing new happens.
I don't expect a completely new creation, ofcourse. But what I am suggesting is a little respect for the cultural references used.

Yanno... Why do all humans in fantasy settings all share the same language even though they live in completely different countries, often times with entire oceans between them?

Because the author can only write their story in one language, that's why. So they're kinda forced to get rid of language barriers for the sake of telling the story.

So... Even if I wanted to make a Slice of Life story set in modern Japan and used all the usual honorifics, the story would still be in English because... Well, if I'm writing in Scribbly, I gotta write in English, that's just how it works.

I was highlighting the fact that authors on SH aren't writing for japanese readers. SH stories are unlikely to be read by a large japanese readerbase.

Again, I am not asking authors to not use JP terms, just that they use it in the right way. Not merely to sound weeby. If the author is aware of the correct usage I would love reading that work. As I have already said, fictions are a great way for me to understand the culture of a place.

P.S. I have enjoyed CN/JP novels but it is the plot that keeps me engaged. A lot of time they are unnecessary frills that distract. For instance respecting elders are a big part of (almost?) all Asian culture. So when we have characters that on one hand are extramly polite and follow the societal norms and on the other hand beat up elders in the blink of an eye, it is quite jarring.

 

[ForestDweller]

I'm writing isekai harem trash so I don't really aim for originality myself. I mean, a lot of my plot ideas are just ideas from other isekai novels that I find interesting and want to write about.

I try not to use Japanese honorifics though, following official isekai novel translations.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Write what ever the frick you wanna. Who the hell is stopping ye? Just don't crib when readers don't like it for frick's sake. Have some skin and take the beating when you know you willing to chose to go swimming in the drain.

I don't usually write like this but it was fun. Wanted to see how it felt, no hard feeling :D

its liberating, eh? you should talk like that more often, And yep i always say authors need to not give so much of a fuck about what negative shit people say. Pansy ass shit like that gets you nowhere, m'dude.

and SH isn't a place for Jap or Chinese readers, but its not like its a place for strictly western readers either. there is s clear difference between stories you find here and ones found on, say wattpad. Genre and writing style for two things. pick up any decent isekai story here and compare it to any fantasy world story like, for example the Adventurers Wanted series that is a novel published by an actual company and you'd see how different the writing styles are. Its like comparing Lord of the rings to Hachinan

SH is a site made by a weeb, for weebs

 

[Cold_Sun]

SH is a site made by a weeb, for weebs

No matter what I say after this will be of any effect. Fml. XD

 

[bananapink]

Yep, I have this mindset when drafting a plot for the story. Culture, religions, ethnicity, geography etc since it's fantasy anyway why not create an entirely different world....and yet some readers are just uuuurgh! ---or maybe it's just my writing style they don't like.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Lets be frank, SH is the unnerving spawn from NU, that place has more translated JP works, CN xianxia and KR clusterfucks, there are even a time period where SH is flooded with BL, because every numskull, me included, after having their brains filled up by the works of NU decides to regurgitate into SH. Hell, @Tony even created this place so that we can freely puke out the mismash we read from NU, instead of going to Machineslicedbread, Lierotica and Storiesonline to post our frankenstein.

As for writing your own culture instead of CN xianxia and JP isekai, should I start to brainstorm my childhood of CN Wuxia and JP Doraemon?

 

[Xiaoshen]

Couldn't agree more. I am just advocating authors not to copy it just for the sake of giving it a CN fic feel. I see a lot of stories that are just elaborate reviews of exising CN novels. What I mean is that the stories will have different names of characters but will essentially plotwise nothing new happens.
I don't expect a completely new creation, ofcourse. But what I am suggesting is a little respect for the cultural references used.

Not even most of the Chinese authors have respect for the cultural references used when it comes to Xianxia. Taoism is bastardized to such an extent in cultivation novels that i'm sure Lao Tzu would cry tears if he saw these stories, fam. And don't get me started on the Buddhism.. the point is, the cultivation realm names and whatnot are not cornerstones of Chinese civilization, and to think of them as such is wrong. You think any of these pop-Cultivation writers really did any research into Nei Gong or things like embryonic breathing? My doubt is limitless and all-consuming. No, they copy each other because it sounds cool, they don't care about any of the actual culture behind Taoism.

Like "Mahayana" being one of the end-game power-levels in one CN cultivation I read once, what the fuck is that even supposed to mean that the final level of power to a Taoist Immortal is a one of the big schools of Buddhism?! And it carried over into a few other cultivation novels as well.

So if even the "OG" CN cultivation fics don't do any research on either the martial arts or the spirituality that they draw inspiration from, is your original point still valid?