A Treatise on the Efficacy of Golemancy as opposed to Necromancy - A Dark Lord's How-To

[GlassRose]

I just wrote this on a different thread, but decided it deserved it's own.

Necromancy is Inferior to Golemancy

Necromancy is contrived and inefficient. It's more about the aesthetic of being a necromancer than any practicality, no self-respecting mage or aspiring conqueror would devote themselves to necromancy, it's only the edgy, delusional, wack-jobs who would engage is such a worthless art. Unless the magic system is specifically enabling necromancers for some reason, there is no reason for someone to practice it.

Why bother raise corpses? Golems work better. Even for raising up armies with magic, self-replicating golems are more durable and there's no need for sourcing corpses, there's dirt and rock and wood everywhere. Can have them run smithies too to make 'em out of steel. And liches? Are better as golems. Why puppet a flimsy skeleton with your immortal soul when you could be piloting an armored behemoth of a golem made of solid steel (or, an outer layer of steel with a wooden or hollow core for reduced weight). And as a golem, you could integrate useful tools and weaponry and spells into your own body, far easier that a skeleton or undead flesh bag. Any being aiming to become a pinnacle life form would choose the perfection of steel over the weak and rotting flesh, or naked bone.

Golems, like undead, never sleep nor tire, they are relentless. Damage to the frame means nothing so long as the core is intact. With undead, the core tends to be the head. Exposed, brittle, weak. A golem core tends to be in the chest, where it lays behind layers of steel. Golems are far more durable than the undead, because you can make them solid all the way through, whereas flesh is squishy and easily cut, and bones are relatively thin (in relation to a golem's limbs) and thus more susceptible to blunt damage. Undead are pungent, ugly, disgusting, and a vector of disease. They are a hazard to any living followers you may have, as well as yourself if you are not also undead. And who wants to be undead? Disgusting disgusting disgusting, a living hell, you take all of the vile traits of flesh and then multiply them. And you may suggest that undead being plague bringers is a good thing, weakens the enemy, but waiting is a disadvantage for an army of undead because during that time you aren't increasing your numbers, making you weaker to a direct attack (compared to a golem army), not to mention that an undead army will continue to decay. A golem army however, increases in numbers while waiting, and each individual is stronger than an undead soldier, on account of having more mass. A golem charge will not be stopped. A golem shield wall will not be broken. Whether a golem army is waiting, attacking, or defending, they are advancing their win condition. And they will outnumber an undead army.

Undead armies start small and build up momentum. A golem army can be built up long before anyone has any idea that such an army is being built, at exponential rates, not dependent on how successful they are in battle (or more specifically, how many casualties they induce). By the time people are aware there's an army, they've already stormed the strongholds and capital.

Golems are not limited to evolutionarily viable shapes or sizes. Specialized forces can be designed at a whim for any target one expects to encounter, whereas with undead, you have to find something that fits what you need, and hope you can collect enough. Massive fort-busters, tanks, many-legged many-armed soldiers for crossing any terrain and engaging several enemies at once, with an even more protected core. Small drones for scouting and spying.

Undead are vulnerable to Holy magic, or Light magic, depending on the setting. Golems have no such weaknesses.

There are two possible advantages to undead. One, is using ghosts as spies/assassins. I'd argue golem armies don't need such things given the other numerous advantages they have. Raw force trumps any need for subterfuge. Second is psychological effect. An army of undead will horrify enemy soldiers and reduce morale, and they may struggle to slay their risen comrades. But argue golems can replicate those effects just as easily. By capitalizing on the ability to freely choose the forms of the golems, one can recreate the faces and forms of former living, can make horrifying facsimiles of real creatures that will terrify by virtue of the uncanny valley, and golems can use captured soldiers, encased in living-armor-like golems, with their faces exposed, as hostages, that will affect enemy soldiers morale even more than if they were just dead. Golems could also wear the corpses of the dead easily for fear and disease tactics, and not have to worry about the weight, because of their high mass, and gaining neutralizing plague as a potential advantage of undead, in fact turning it into a point for golems, on account of being able to clean your golems to not spread disease among your friendlies/minions.

Necromancy as a magic serves no purpose besides that as of a tool of a Dark Lord, a conqueror, but a real Dark Lord leads an army of golems.

And yes, the only purpose of Necromancy is to conquer, the disease makes them too dangerous to the living for mundane tasks. But what about after you've won? Golems make excellent assistants, couriers, servants, body guards, and workers, as they can be specialized for any task, without being a source of disgust or disease to the ones they serve. This is useful for after you've conquered the world with your army of golems, as they are still a valuable source of labor. And self sustaining, unlike undead, which will eventually wear out, and without new corpses, be lost forever.

In some settings, the source of the corpse affects the quality of the undead. A creature that was strong in life, will result in a strong undead. This is not an advantage. Because it means the rank-and-file of an undead army is shit, F-tier trash. Such strong creatures typically also require special attention from the necromancer to raise (at least at full power), even if they somehow managed to automate the raising of the dead killed by the army (which is no guarantee. Many undead armies have to be manually raised). A golem army is better off, because they are better canvases for inscribing beneficial magic into from the get-go. Skeletons just have their bones to inscribe magic, zombies are worse cause the bones are covered in rotting flesh, but golems can have layers and layers of inscribed magic within, providing magic shields, anchoring magic, mobility enhancement and teleportation, melee and ranged offensive magic, and more. Far more magical power. customization, and specialization permitted, in every model right as it comes off of the factory floor. Better materials still allow for better golems, but unlike the materials for powerful undead, the materials for powerful golems don't fight back, meaning there's no risk of losing precious resources just trying to get a stronger soldier.

Ultimately, the undead are just lesser golems.

If you think I'm wrong, you're wrong. But I'd love to hear about how you're wrong anyway.

"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you."

No one's gonna read this, are they. It's too long. Whatever.

 

[Amrasil207]

Huh, this is neat and I agree.
- Helman Ghorst, an average zombie enthusiast.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I just wrote this on a different thread, but decided it deserved it's own.

Necromancy is Inferior to Golemancy

Necromancy is contrived and inefficient. It's more about the aesthetic of being a necromancer than any practicality, no self-respecting mage or aspiring conqueror would devote themselves to necromancy, it's only the edgy, delusional, wack-jobs who would engage is such a worthless art. Unless the magic system is specifically enabling necromancers for some reason, there is no reason for someone to practice it.

Why bother raise corpses? Golems work better. Even for raising up armies with magic, self-replicating golems are more durable and there's no need for sourcing corpses, there's dirt and rock and wood everywhere. Can have them run smithies too to make 'em out of steel. And liches? Are better as golems. Why puppet a flimsy skeleton with your immortal soul when you could be piloting an armored behemoth of a golem made of solid steel (or, an outer layer of steel with a wooden or hollow core for reduced weight). And as a golem, you could integrate useful tools and weaponry and spells into your own body, far easier that a skeleton or undead flesh bag. Any being aiming to become a pinnacle life form would choose the perfection of steel over the weak and rotting flesh, or naked bone.

Golems, like undead, never sleep nor tire, they are relentless. Damage to the frame means nothing so long as the core is intact. With undead, the core tends to be the head. Exposed, brittle, weak. A golem core tends to be in the chest, where it lays behind layers of steel. Golems are far more durable than the undead, because you can make them solid all the way through, whereas flesh is squishy and easily cut, and bones are relatively thin (in relation to a golem's limbs) and thus more susceptible to blunt damage. Undead are pungent, ugly, disgusting, and a vector of disease. They are a hazard to any living followers you may have, as well as yourself if you are not also undead. And who wants to be undead? Disgusting disgusting disgusting, a living hell, you take all of the vile traits of flesh and then multiply them. And you may suggest that undead being plague bringers is a good thing, weakens the enemy, but waiting is a disadvantage for an army of undead because during that time you aren't increasing your numbers, making you weaker to a direct attack (compared to a golem army), not to mention that an undead army will continue to decay. A golem army however, increases in numbers while waiting, and each individual is stronger than an undead soldier, on account of having more mass. A golem charge will not be stopped. A golem shield wall will not be broken. Whether a golem army is waiting, attacking, or defending, they are advancing their win condition. And they will outnumber an undead army.

Undead armies start small and build up momentum. A golem army can be built up long before anyone has any idea that such an army is being built, at exponential rates, not dependent on how successful they are in battle (or more specifically, how many casualties they induce). By the time people are aware there's an army, they've already stormed the strongholds and capital.

Golems are not limited to evolutionarily viable shapes or sizes. Specialized forces can be designed at a whim for any target one expects to encounter, whereas with undead, you have to find something that fits what you need, and hope you can collect enough. Massive fort-busters, tanks, many-legged many-armed soldiers for crossing any terrain and engaging several enemies at once, with an even more protected core. Small drones for scouting and spying.

Undead are vulnerable to Holy magic, or Light magic, depending on the setting. Golems have no such weaknesses.

There are two possible advantages to undead. One, is using ghosts as spies/assassins. I'd argue golem armies don't need such things given the other numerous advantages they have. Raw force trumps any need for subterfuge. Second is psychological effect. An army of undead will horrify enemy soldiers and reduce morale, and they may struggle to slay their risen comrades. But argue golems can replicate those effects just as easily. By capitalizing on the ability to freely choose the forms of the golems, one can recreate the faces and forms of former living, can make horrifying facsimiles of real creatures that will terrify by virtue of the uncanny valley, and golems can use captured soldiers, encased in living-armor-like golems, with their faces exposed, as hostages, that will affect enemy soldiers morale even more than if they were just dead. Golems could also wear the corpses of the dead easily for fear and disease tactics, and not have to worry about the weight, because of their high mass, and gaining neutralizing plague as a potential advantage of undead, in fact turning it into a point for golems, on account of being able to clean your golems to not spread disease among your friendlies/minions.

Necromancy as a magic serves no purpose besides that as of a tool of a Dark Lord, a conqueror, but a real Dark Lord leads an army of golems.

And yes, the only purpose of Necromancy is to conquer, the disease makes them too dangerous to the living for mundane tasks. But what about after you've won? Golems make excellent assistants, couriers, servants, body guards, and workers, as they can be specialized for any task, without being a source of disgust or disease to the ones they serve. This is useful for after you've conquered the world with your army of golems, as they are still a valuable source of labor. And self sustaining, unlike undead, which will eventually wear out, and without new corpses, be lost forever.

In some settings, the source of the corpse affects the quality of the undead. A creature that was strong in life, will result in a strong undead. This is not an advantage. Because it means the rank-and-file of an undead army is shit, F-tier trash. Such strong creatures typically also require special attention from the necromancer to raise (at least at full power), even if they somehow managed to automate the raising of the dead killed by the army (which is no guarantee. Many undead armies have to be manually raised). A golem army is better off, because they are better canvases for inscribing beneficial magic into from the get-go. Skeletons just have their bones to inscribe magic, zombies are worse cause the bones are covered in rotting flesh, but golems can have layers and layers of inscribed magic within, providing magic shields, anchoring magic, mobility enhancement and teleportation, melee and ranged offensive magic, and more. Far more magical power. customization, and specialization permitted, in every model right as it comes off of the factory floor. Better materials still allow for better golems, but unlike the materials for powerful undead, the materials for powerful golems don't fight back, meaning there's no risk of losing precious resources just trying to get a stronger soldier.

Ultimately, the undead are just lesser golems.

If you think I'm wrong, you're wrong. But I'd love to hear about how you're wrong anyway.

"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me. I craved the strength and certainty of steel. I aspired to the purity of the Blessed Machine. Your kind cling to your flesh, as though it will not decay and fail you."

No one's gonna read this, are they. It's too long. Whatever.

I did read this and I just have a couple of questions.

1.

Why puppet a flimsy skeleton with your immortal soul when you could be piloting an armored behemoth of a golem made of solid steel (or, an outer layer of steel with a wooden or hollow core for reduced weight).

This genuinely sound like a great idea. But the execution sounds flimsy. Liches possess phylactery and their boney vessel is nothing more than a shirt they wear. Replacing the boney bit with armor sounds cool and all, but aren't most liches magic based and require less needs of physical resistance?

2.

Undead are vulnerable to Holy magic, or Light magic, depending on the setting. Golems have no such weaknesses.

Golems do have other weaknesses; for metal based golums they are often less resistant to lightning attacks. Wood will rot, mud and clay can be washed off. There is nothing in this world that is completely resistant to all. Nothing is resistant to fire, neither undeads nor golems. Fire elementals yes, but not this point.

 

[Peter3135566]

I mostly agree in the dark lord part, but if your a dark mage not a dark lork, aka no desire to rule over enything realy, theres a few things to consider...

1. Lich - undead vs golem... for begginer liches, i think soul-body compatability is a big thing, never mind outright regection its prob just plain constant irritation of the body being wrong.
2. Nectromancy is often a good counter to other necromancers and naturly occuring death related magic problems... a water/fire/light healer can combat sickness much more easly with the aid of a paid for peacefull necromancer.
3.in court, if you dont have clues about the murderer, rise undead the victim. Will make a few crimes easy to solve no?
4.most magic settings have hard limitation to enything self sustaining or self replicating, or otherwise risk facing a malfunction, accidental or intentional, making a gray goo cenario equal for whatever is replicating. Bad-bad.

On the other hand, id much rather be a golem related mage then a undeath related mage personly, and fully agree with your idea, just think that all points need to be considerd.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Just a little while ago, I was thinking about a party of adventurers that get into a fight with a T-Rex fossil. They keep trying and trying to bring it down with anti-undead tactics, but nothing seems to take. And finally they realize- horror of horrors- that it's an earth elemental/golem, using purely stone fossilized bones and not a trace of necromancy!

Oh, flesh golems are better than zombies as well, just as a heads up.

Anyways, Golems are one of many forms of magic that make necromancy seem redundant and inferior. Oddly, Necromancy is at its best when it isn't being used to create undead monsters.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Just a little while ago, I was thinking about a party of adventurers that get into a fight with a T-Rex fossil. They keep trying and trying to bring it down with anti-undead tactics, but nothing seems to take. And finally they realize- horror of horrors- that it's an earth elemental/golem, using purely stone fossilized bones and not a trace of necromancy!

Oh, flesh golems are better than zombies as well, just as a heads up.

Anyways, Golems are one of many forms of magic that make necromancy seem redundant and inferior. Oddly, Necromancy is at its best when it isn't being used to create undead monsters.

Nah, like what the OP said, it is good to create ghost as assassins and scouts, unless there are other spells that allow the user to gain an unseen/ undetectable helper, such as summoning fae/ wind elementals.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Nah, like what the OP said, it is good to create ghost as assassins and scouts, unless there are other spells that allow the user to gain an unseen/ undetectable helper, such as summoning fae/ wind elementals.

Off the top of my head, there's phantom killer and it's like- mind magic that makes someone die because they thought they were killed when they weren't. There's also several spells and items for moving through obstacles, becoming invisible, or creating servants that are invisible or incorporeal like your wind elementals or invisible stalkers.

Ordinary, everyday Familiars work best for the scout role. Special familiars like Sprites and Imps can even become invisible!

 

[Arkus86]

You can tell this post was made by a golemancer, probably one who was insulted and/or bested by a necromancer before

 

[So_Indecisive]

Golem's are expensive. I mean it takes a lot in materials and time to fashion a core. The core of a golem is like a CPU and processor for the golem. Commands, movements, fighting, you have to program all that and fit into a small core. Sure maybe when you're proficient in the art you can cut down the time spent on that by a lot or maybe even have an automated assembly line that mass produces the golem cores otherwise it would be a very expensive venture in terms of time and money.

Necromancy on the other hand is just reciting a spell and injecting some of your magic power(except for some settings where you need an elaborate ritual for necromancy in which case my argument becomes redundant) or even something as simple as "WAKEY-WAKEY" or "ERECT". And BOOM! You have your soldier.

So Golem's are for rich kids while Necromancy is for broke magicians

 

[FoxxieFox]

Praise be to the machine god!

 

[Cipiteca396]

elaborate ritual for necromancy in which case my argument becomes redundant

Most settings that make you work hard to create golems are doing so because it's difficult to control large numbers of units, and they only want you having one or two. Those same settings aren't going to let you have undead for the same reasons.

If you're in a setting where undead are allowed, but golems aren't, then you're in a setting where the creator realized Golems are OP.

 

[TroubleFait]

Necromancers aren't stupid (well, at least they're not all stupid). They use corpses for availability. They hack into a biological being instead of building one from zero. They can justgo into a graveyard and find plenty of corpses just waiting to be raised.

You know how Boston Dynamics is one of the leaders in humanoid robots? Do you think their job is easy? Meanwhile with undead you can just salvage what's already there for zombies, or use the temporal echo of their old life as a guide for skeletons.

Finally, necromancy is versatile. In the same school of magic, you can sterilise food, raise the spirits of the dead, detect and eliminate ghosts, use ghosts as scoots, perform surgery... one necromancer can learn all of this, instead of specialising in golemancy.

 

[miyoga]

Easy fix for all of this. As a budding Dark Lord, you must play the long game. You start by mastering necromancy, but only use it for good. This would require that you learn enchanting as a necessity to complete some work that you do consulting for the guards and what not. After becoming proficient you use a combination of necromancy and enchanting to learn the basics of golemancy and create homonculi so that you may start a courier service to make more money than you were. This new cash source is where you begin to acquire the materials you need to make your golem army in your secret lab. It's in this secret lab where you practice your "evil" necromantic spells prior to the full switch to golemancy. All those zombie outbreaks? Just "accidental" leaks to keep any hero-wannabes busy and out of your hair until your army is unstoppable.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

We here at Honest Eldritch's Skeleton Emporium would like a chance to rebut the many false and slanderous claims by our compeditors.

While yes, Todd Jobbs over at Betheapple, Incorporated does make a fine product, I wouldn't want to slander his work, I'll let the many people who complain about his predatory practices and locking people into cycles of being forced to upgrade so money keeps flowing into his coffers do that for me.

The fact of the matter is Golems are just expensive. They cost a ton of gold to produce, and then all you have to do Is hit them in the forehead with an arrow, ruin one letter, and the whole thing shuts down. Emet to Met isn't just death, but a whole lot of money out of your pocket as you have to call up tech support to repair your downed golem.

Necromancy is the way of the FUTURE!!!

Good... evil... right and wrong... Haven't we evolved beyond all that? Isn't Evil spelled backwards... LIVE? And we all want to do THAT, don't we?

No no no... Necromancy is cheap, effective, uses locally sourced materials, and is good for the environment! Why those golem-producing companies slaughter entire forests for their wood golems, strip mind mountains for iron and stone golems, and if you think you are avoiding icky dead bodies, think again as you have to sew together the body parts from several corpses to get just ONE flesh golem!

Whereas we use ordinary bones. Not even human bones! We can use any bones to make a skeleton, and so you don't have to worry about accidentally purchasing some distant long, dead relative. No, long gone are the days when we sneak into graveyards. Now we only harvest from humans who checked the donate organ box on the back of their adventuring guild card. We also have may meat processing plants that sell us the bones of dead cows and other animals for our various projects.

Yes, it is true that in the past many of Honest Eldritch's Skeleton Emporium products did burst into flames when exposed to holy magic. We have since fixed this design flaw by installing a simple Protection From Positive Energy charm onto EVERY PRODUCT WE MAKE!

Why have a horse-drawn cart when you can have a cart where the axel and other moving parts are made of animated BONES? Want your customers to feel welcome? Have an animated bone arm attached to your entrance and the door will automatically open during normal business hours! Our new Laundry Box is a box where you dump your dirty clothes, include soap, and the many animated skeletal arms inside will reach out to gently agitate the clothing, water, and soap until your clothing is not only stain-free but has a pine box fresh scent.

Now are you willing to spend hundreds of thousands of gold pieces to help your wife have a little more free time in her day by using a Golum? And which one would you use? Stinky flesh golems? Stone golems leaving stone dust over everything? An iron golems would leave rust all over your clothes and don't even get me started on the CLAY GOLEMS.

UGH!

Whereas we do the same thing for a mere two hundred and ninety nine gold, with cleaned, polished, 100% renewable and enviromentally friendly BONE.

OH SURE, maybe you want to invade a country, the use a golem. We do not recommend using skeletons for violent purposes, nor do we sell skeletons for such horrible tasks. We feel that skeletons should only be used as labor-saving devices that free up time for the living to do just that.

LIVE.

As for our compeditor's claims that Self-Replicating Golems are the weapon of the future, well, do you really want a weapon that thinks for itself capable of making MORE of itself? I would like to remind you that most of our customers are made of flesh, and flesh is one of those things that Flesh golems need to make more of itself. Really, self replicating weapons of mass destruction are a BAD IDEA.

Why not use Mindless, forever loyal, and totally obedient skeletons and never worry about your servant developing any of that pesky free will and suddenly turning YOU into fuel for the very war machine you lost control over?

Honest Eldritch's Skeleton Emporium:
We Bring Good Things Back To Life​

 

[Lloyd]

Okay this is stupid because it ignores the fact that golems are inherently less efficient than undead.
1. Undead weight less and sometimes have muscles to help them move, thus requiring much less magic to operate.
2. Undead have can have blood and souls, which are two of the main sources of magical power, which let them be completely autonomous with no drawbacks. Golems will either need a constantly flow of magic or eventually run out of power and stop functioning.
3.Golems are one of the few magical entities that are rebellious by nature, and will turn on their master if given a soul or some mechanism to function autonomously.
4. Golems are not as cool as undead.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Now how do you feel about necromancing the corpse of a golem?

 

[Don_Quacko]

Now how do you feel about necromancing the corpse of a golem?

Now make a golem out of multiple necroed golem corpses

 

[GlassRose]

3.Golems are one of the few magical entities that are rebellious by nature, and will turn on their master if given a soul or some mechanism to function autonomously.

There is no reason for golems to be more rebellious than undead. If anything, they'd be less rebellious because they never were alive in the first place, whereas with undead you may have traces of the original personality hanging around that can fight against your control. Especially common when you send one to fight against it's former companions.

An ensouled golem can have a soul consisting purely of the parts needed for physical function, and processing orders. The rest can be devoted to an expanded mana pool and mana well, mitigating the issues of requiring more energy to power.

You can also program your golem to be constantly training and expanding that mana pool, an instinct hard-wired into it's soul, whereas with undead you have to fight against the individual to make commands like that go through.

Easy fix for all of this. As a budding Dark Lord, you must play the long game. You start by mastering necromancy, but only use it for good. This would require that you learn enchanting as a necessity to complete some work that you do consulting for the guards and what not. After becoming proficient you use a combination of necromancy and enchanting to learn the basics of golemancy and create homonculi so that you may start a courier service to make more money than you were. This new cash source is where you begin to acquire the materials you need to make your golem army in your secret lab. It's in this secret lab where you practice your "evil" necromantic spells prior to the full switch to golemancy. All those zombie outbreaks? Just "accidental" leaks to keep any hero-wannabes busy and out of your hair until your army is unstoppable.

Necromancy maybe be a useful start-up skill depending on the setting, I will concede. And a good gateway into animancy (soul magic), which is by far the best way to make golems.

3.in court, if you dont have clues about the murderer, rise undead the victim. Will make a few crimes easy to solve no?

If that were possible, then resurrection would be super common in that world, and that is an uncommon trait. Usually, either undead have degraded intelligence (without careful prep and ritual, like to make a lich, which is also typically very expensive) due to the soul somehow degrading, or the soul itself already passes on and the undead is functioning off of little bits left behind, the imprint of the soul rather than the soul itself. Makes the undead a very unreliable witness.

1.

This genuinely sound like a great idea. But the execution sounds flimsy. Liches possess phylactery and their boney vessel is nothing more than a shirt they wear. Replacing the boney bit with armor sounds cool and all, but aren't most liches magic based and require less needs of physical resistance?

2.

Golems do have other weaknesses; for metal based golums they are often less resistant to lightning attacks. Wood will rot, mud and clay can be washed off. There is nothing in this world that is completely resistant to all. Nothing is resistant to fire, neither undeads nor golems. Fire elementals yes, but not this point.

Why would a metal golem be weak to lightning? Sure, it might conduct the electricity, but what damage does that actually do? Especially if the inner core is insulated. But even if it weren't, electricity damages organics because it messes with nerve signals, and because organics aren't great conductors so a lot of the energy is wasted as heat, which is damaging to organics. But metal passes electricity without being damaged just fine, that's why we use it to, transport electricity.

And yeah dirt golems are definitely sub-par, they're quick and dirty to make. They don't last long. However, they are still highly effective against common soldiers, even though they are weak to mages, making them good if you need to quickly throw together a force to quell an uprising without devoting more valuable resources.

Wood is not as bad as you think, it can be treated, and layered under either dirt or metal to protect it from fire and other environmental conditions. It's not really the best for combat, it's for scouts.

And if fire is equally effective against golems an undead (slander, golems can tank it way better), then the point still stands that golemancy > necromancy.

You can tell this post was made by a golemancer, probably one who was insulted and/or bested by a necromancer before

Nope. Quite the contrary, I was once an aspiring necromancer. But trying to apply it practically, at every step I found that a golem could do it better. It start simple. You make a few bone constructs, not an animation of any one living thing, but a special, custom-designed amalgamation. You convert your armies to just skeletons. You carve magic into all of their bones for an edge. You encase all of their bones in earth for extra defense. You're waiting out a siege, no new bones on their way, so you say, fuck it, why do I need the bones in there anyway? It's not like the bone constructs were controlled by a once living soul anyway, it would get too confused as to how to move. You know how souls work, you've been working with them all this time. You know how to recreate the parts to control locomotion, you're already an expert at subverting mana pools to power the spells, and it's not that hard to get a rough imprint of your own soul's intelligence to allow it to understand orders. And before you know it, you've made a golem.

And then you do it again. And again. At some point, you realize that if you transfer your own knowledge of golem making to your older golems with developed mana pools, they can make golems for you. They can make more golems, that can make more golems. Your undead army is long since forgotten. Chewed up and spat out, defeated by a coalition of the remaining kingdoms. It doesn't matter, you're already long since in hiding, underground in the far wilderness, watching your golem empire grow as they replace sodden dirt with cool steel. Your soul has long since been transferred into steel as well. You tunnel below your enemies, and one day, you surface. An unending horde of golems pours out from the underground, to take what's yours.

4. Golems are not as cool as undead.

Oh, and, hard disagree. Undead only have the grisly horror thing going for them. Golems have that cold, unfeeling, unrelenting, foreign horror to them, a being that can not be related to by any living thing. They can have the cool factor of a knight, completely clad in armor and moving down hordes, the cool factor of 'big robot!', the cool/horror factor of many-legged spider-adjacent monstrosity (the legs are blades!), the coolness of a walking siege weapon, or fortress, or really anything else one can make, because they're just so customizable.

And becoming a golem is cool because you can make whatever body modifications you want, hell you could change things regularly! For any situation. And you can integrate spells and tools.

Becoming an undead is just kind of a self-inflicted nightmare, your soul is stuck to this rotting corpse, you've lost everything that made keeping the human form a worthwhile idea in the first place and now you're stuck. It's just a pathetic, failed attempt at achieving true immortality while maintaining your original form. If you were going to do that, you might as well have just made yourself a golem from the start.

I mean, if you wanna wallow in angst, then go ahead, become an undead, but if you're seeking ascendence, become a golem.

 

[Thraben]

This is why Maldex the Ever Blackest's Primer on Dark Magic should be mandatory reading for any aspiring Dark Magician. It contains the very basic information so many upstarts these days seem to have missed. Here are some highlights for those that don't have the time.

The primary values in undead servants aren't their individual viability as workers, combat units, artisans, or lieutenants, as these are all qualities you yourself possess or have more permanent and competent minions for, it's affinity, sustainability, and style, or ASS for short.

Affinity: As a Dark Magician, you will inevitably be pursuing immortality should you not already possess it for whatever reason (git gud), and even if you are you will eventually be pursuing it anyways to maintain the lives of your most valuable minions and your captured princesses (once they inevitably fall for you). In so doing, you will turn to Necromancy as a means of sustaining life while preserving mental faculty or physical appearance, resulting in a high degree of affinity with the undead. This affinity will provide you with an increased understanding of your undead minions, and could potentially lead to an evolution in the nature of your undead minions, such as them developing sentience from spending time around other sentient undead like liches or others preserved immortally by Necromancy, a flat impossibility with Golemancy.

Sustainable: As a Dark Magician, you will inevitably be pursuing immortality should you not already possess it for whatever reason (nerd), means the long term viability of your eternal empire is incredibly important. In this regard, Necromancy, as an extension of the magic of the cycle of life and death, offers vastly superior options to the realm of artifice in which Golemancy resides. Not only are undead servants more economically viable, taking a tenth of the time and effort to create on average, non-minion focused necromancy can further solidify this economic viability. Necromancy spells originally designed to cause harm to the living by rotting people alive can instead be purposed to increase soil fertility by walking many corpses of your enemies to the fields and rotting them to fertilizer where they lay, ensuring prosperity for your willing subjects - a benefit Golemancy cannot provide. This is only one of myriad applications for Necromancy that Artifice cannot replicate.

Stylish: As a Dark Magician, your appearance matters. Fear, awe, admiration, respect, competence, and power are only some of the traits the appearance of you, your magic, and your minions must maintain in order to ensure your reign is as peaceful and fulfilling as possible. Pursuant to this, the magic of Artifice only offers you only falsehoods, that once seen through, lose all aesthetic value beyond the technical details of construction, something your average subject won't understand. While the average peasant girl under your rule may be awed by the size, shape, and animacy of Golems, and perhaps even respectful of your power over them, you will fail to impress her more primally with this display. Undead, despite requiring less effort and time to create, evoke more primal, emotional responses in your subjects. You may make a peasant girl squeal in fear over a single, well equipped and groomed zombie less than half the size of a titanic golem, purely by engaging your superior style and skill with an art form more receptive to such endeavors. Better yet, a skeletal legion, equipped with the finest armor and weapons you can commission and enchant, will serve as a testament to your skill and influence, as well as demonstrating your finesse and leadership acumen. In addition to this, the living feel instinctively uncomfortable around the undead, heightening their already superior stylistic impact.

Remember, Up-and-coming Dark Magicians, undead are ASS.

 

[Voidiris]

I really desire to read this entire thread but I have for now no time.
But isn’t that obvious.
Alone from the possibility of materials golemancy is far superior not even speaking about how with golemancy superior versions of life forms can be build.
Of course depending on the setting there could be limits to golemancy but those limits probably exist for necromancy then too.
Now that I think about it I know only like two novels that really made golemancy an important magic aspect, one of them made necromancy and golemancy basically the same but olemancy is superior.