Alternative AG testing thread - A troubleshooting discussion and experiment

[Devils.Advocate]

Sometime during the weekend... when I have an Idle moment, I wondered, what other ways are there to do an RP Adventurer's Guild...

There are things in AG that I like and there are things that I find too chaotic. So from seeing the Proboards site going up and AG 3 continue to thrive for players that like that form entails, I decided to see what other forms of AG can there be...

That is the purpose of this thread, to make an AG system that contains these qualities.

1. Self-contained systems, with minimal to no moderation
2. a hard-coded system that determines the power levels of player characters
3. Maintain the same level of creative freedom to solve quest that AG offer
4. Still have an optional collaborative social element.

Since in the AG 3, I found it troubling to qualify power, that is the problem I will be looking at first.

While I think, a lot, if not the portion of players of AG from what I see, make characters that are a kind of wish fulfilment. And that is fine, to be Gods in RP is fine, but this system I am testing is on the other end of that. but that is to say, those that wish to be superheroes, and OP adventurers there is the AG, this systems I am trying to put together is unfortunately not that.

Now back to what I was saying... the freedom to do anything makes it hard to qualify power, but it does let the people seeking that feeling of power to thrive and is in its own way fun for the players. It was interesting for me as well, but ultimately, I found too little commonality with different scales of the fictional world.

Personally, it was hard to negotiate with a player that was in all intent and purposes not doing something wrong with narrative logic, since players make characters that are not "Human", not "elves", not even any traditional fictional race. There is nothing inherently wrong with a world-ender saying, 'yeah I end worlds'. But that makes a separation from characters that runs on a different "range".

Since the player, themselves have very different ideas about what the scope is the disparity between what different players think is "real" at that moment is itself a barrier for interaction. For example, I find that it is this disparity between scope when a player who's stories are all about being a grime dark soldier, knee-deep in the horrors of wars, and characters that spend their time drinking and slay monsters with a flick of a wrist. It is not that the two-character can't co-exist but, each undercut the other's value. Each story has its hooks and value, but side by side. they devalue each other, is what I think.

So first I want to look at a tangible value system. A unified quantifiable commonality.

*I wanted to maintain this testing thread in a PM, but unable to edit after 5mins was a real bane to my existence, so it going to go here.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Game Design concepts

• Questing
• Character Sheets
• Stakes Life and Death?
• Leveling System
• Currency & Marketplace
• Adding new lore
• Party Quests
• Overarching PLot
• Quest making issues
• Write to grow system

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Reserved

 

[Devils.Advocate]

So I was talking to someone A know recently about this problem, how to make a something that lets people do ANYthing but yet retain some semblance of limitations.

I was introduced to the Tabletop gaming systems "I roll to see if I have shoes on" a system came up by Ben Wray in 2010(?)

Account Suspended

So afterwards I wonder how I can modify it to apply to the AG

The original rules set looked at a very simple set of rules

1. Say what you do and roll a number of d6s.
2. If the sum of your roll is higher than the opposing roll, the thing you wanted to happen, happens.
3. The number of d6s you roll is determined by the level of the skill you have.
4. At the start, you have only one skill: Do anything 1.
5. If you roll all sixes, you get a new skill specific to the action, one level higher than the one you used.
6. For every roll you fail, you get 1 XP.
7. XP can be used to change a die into a 6 for advancement purposes only.

Certain things need to be added on but if quests has a build-in difficulty, the role of receptionist can be eliminated and players will know if they succeed or fail a quest even before the report.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Let's say a quest is something like this:

> > >

Healing Herbs
Sponsor: Adventurer's Guild Location: Starter Region Required Level: 1
Objectives: Identify Herbs Collect 5 bags of herbs Many species of healing herbs can be found throughout the world. A special type of grass with healing properties is known to grow in this area. The guild would like to stockpile on these herbs for emergencies. Make sure that you're collecting the right kind of plant though! We don't want a sack of ordinary grass!
Rewards: --​ --​ --​ Spoiler: Result Processor >>> Challenge Sheet Obstacles Actions Difficulty Adversity Value Identify Herbs to Collect​ 1-6​ 5 bags of herbs​ Actions Success Value --​ --​ --​ --​ RESULT SUCCESS or FAIL​ > > >

 

[Devils.Advocate]

And the Character sheet looks something like this
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯

Primus Exemplar

>>> Spoiler: Resources Resources Currency Life ♥ Skill Points 100 Rollos​ Max Current 1​ 1​ 0 pts​ >>> Gender Race Class Age Rank Male​ Human​ N/A​ 20​ 1​ Appearance Backstory A simple human male. landed in the world of Rolfae imbued with infinite potential, as well as the content fallibility of the world >>> Spoiler: Abilities Abilities Skills Level Description Do Anything​ 1 (Locked)​ Spoiler This is the native skill of all things in the world, it can be turned into anything will always have 1 to 6 success points >>> Spoiler: Inventory Inventory Item Level Uses / Durability Description Stick​ 1​ 1/1​ Spoiler It's a stick can be used to hit things, Regardless of what the item is a level 1 item always represent 1 success point

⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯

Doing quests to be a matter of sorting how hard it is to do first before a report

Adversity roll

justabot said:
SHF Dice Roller
Min: 1
Max: 6
Number of Dice: 2
@Cascadian, you rolled: 3, 1

>>>

Challenge Sheet
Obstacles Actions Difficulty Adversity Value Identify Herbs to Collect 3 5 bags of herbs 1 Actions Success Value Identify herb 4 Carry it back 1 RESULT FAIL

> > >

A character using Do anything skill will attempt to identify the herbs and also use their physical ability to carry it back

Challenge check

justabot said:
SHF Dice Roller
Min: 1
Max: 6
Number of Dice: 2
@Cascadian, you rolled: 4, 1

Was able to pass the herb identify check but failed the physical check since equals = fail

So the story will be about Primus finding the herbs but in one way or other fail to carry it back to the guild

also in failing the quest gains one Skill point

 

[ohko]

I've also seen some sites that did review/application for skills!

When you wanted to get another skill, you were supposed to put in a skill app and it needed to get approved.

I've also seen a variation where you had to make a certain number of posts before "buying" a new skill.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

So now that Primus has failed a quest he has a skill point to use
But the next question is the stakes, whether there should be a Life point system, failing a quest and deduce a life point?

Life point and their relevant,
what is it?

 

[Devils.Advocate]

I've also seen some sites that did review/application for skills!

When you wanted to get another skill, you were supposed to put in a skill app and it needed to get approved.

I've also seen a variation where you had to make a certain number of posts before "buying" a new skill.

I considered that it is definitely a viable option

 

[AliceShiki]

This would be pretty fun to see implemented tbh~

OTOH, I like the creative freedom of AG that allows you to do whatever you want, as opposed to try doing whatever you want, so... It would end up as a different game... Which isn't bad! It's just... Well, different~

 

[ohko]

This would be pretty fun to see implemented tbh~

OTOH, I like the creative freedom of AG that allows you to do whatever you want, as opposed to try doing whatever you want, so... It would end up as a different game... Which isn't bad! It's just... Well, different~

^^ I remember we had this discussion a long time ago too!

 

[Devils.Advocate]

This would be pretty fun to see implemented tbh~

OTOH, I like the creative freedom of AG that allows you to do whatever you want, as opposed to try doing whatever you want, so... It would end up as a different game... Which isn't bad! It's just... Well, different~

^^ I remember we had this discussion a long time ago too!

Yeah, it defo leans closer to the game side of the spectrum... I think as soon as I introduced dice roll. it Becomes more puzzle-like entity, but I do like how it needs zero people to run since its largely RNG

 

[ohko]

Yeah, it defo leans closer to the game side of the spectrum... I think as soon as I introduced dice roll. it Becomes more puzzle-like entity, but I do like how it needs zero people to run since its largely RNG

I think one thing to consider is that there is a certain amount of bottleneck with quest design.

I think in my experience so far, most players prefer to walk in, read some interesting quests, and then take them.

However, it has felt like players have been more comparatively shy to make quests.

 

[AliceShiki]

^^ I remember we had this discussion a long time ago too!

Aye! I vaguely remember it too! Back when I was making AG V2 IIRC! xD

Yeah, it defo leans closer to the game side of the spectrum... I think as soon as I introduced dice roll. it Becomes more puzzle-like entity, but I do like how it needs zero people to run since its largely RNG

Still seems pretty fun, and the growth system also makes it pretty hard to grow too much~

I think one thing to consider is that there is a certain amount of bottleneck with quest design.

I think in my experience so far, most players prefer to walk in, read some interesting quests, and then take them.

However, it has felt like players have been more comparatively shy to make quests.

Eh? I have seen more custom quests in AG V3 than I ever saw before, I think you had a huge success with them! xD

 

[ohko]

Another thing that I'm worried about with the proboards site is the lack of an overarching plot.

When I was looking at a lot of different sites while doing advertising, I found out that many players/sites frown upon the absence of a bigger plot. The game can be hard to play if there are only 1-3 people. I think the prior versions of AG have been successful because there's a lot of activity and a lot of players; but the game struggles a little bit more on low activity.

 

[AliceShiki]

Another thing that I'm worried about with the proboards site is the lack of an overarching plot.

When I was looking at a lot of different sites while doing advertising, I found out that many players/sites frown upon the absence of a bigger plot. The game can be hard to play if there are only 1-3 people. I think the prior versions of AG have been successful because there's a lot of activity and a lot of players; but the game struggles a little bit more on low activity.

I think the players can always make their own plots though? Like the whole slime horde thingy and what not~

And I dunno, I prefer not having any bigger plot, because it then lets people do their own things... And well, when someone heavily involved with the bigger plot goes MIA, I can't imagine how much of a hassle it is to get things back on track... >.>

 

[ohko]

I think the players can always make their own plots though? Like the whole slime horde thingy and what not~

And I dunno, I prefer not having any bigger plot, because it then lets people do their own things... And well, when someone heavily involved with the bigger plot goes MIA, I can't imagine how much of a hassle it is to get things back on track... >.>

Mhm! I don't know how to word it!

I think it's something that the proboards site is struggling with, although I'm not sure if it's because it's low activity or if because players aren't interested in making quests that advance a plot in a certain direction.

I think AGv3 benefited a lot from the fact that early on, staff members read quest reports and created quests to investigate/follow up on things that were reported in prior quest reports. Usually, I felt like players were a little bit more shy to do this, and typically did not do it unless they were particularly encouraged by the staff to do so.

As for a bigger plot, I think maybe another word would be a driving theme? Or something? I think the proboards guild also has the issue that it feels boring -- because the starting area is so safe. It has a lethargic kind of feeling where nobody is sure exactly what they want to do. The interesting-ness of the starting area is a major aspect of collecting the initial interest, I think.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

growth system also makes it pretty hard to grow too much

That's right, I was just working out the nut as bolts about in the Roll for shoes system and just realised
when a person wants to level up Fire magic from level 9 to 10 they need to fail a 10 or more die roll, then need to roll 9 d6s all 6. or to have stocked up 9 skill points to turn dice rolls 6s

hight level skill is pretty impossible, but this system might have players end up with hundreds of level one or two skills

an overarching plot.

I thought the Probos guild is more a slice of life, tho. Tho I'd agrees some "big changes" is needed occasionally to make the world feel alive. adding seasons was a good move, maybe seasonal disasters might also be an interesting mini-event.

 

[GDLiZy]

Another thing that I'm worried about with the proboards site is the lack of an overarching plot.

When I was looking at a lot of different sites while doing advertising, I found out that many players/sites frown upon the absence of a bigger plot. The game can be hard to play if there are only 1-3 people. I think the prior versions of AG have been successful because there's a lot of activity and a lot of players; but the game struggles a little bit more on low activity.

That's why I suggested a side-wide monthly event that the players could choose to participate or not.

However, I personally think that due to the limitless open-worldness of Probos, it was not necessary to have an overarching plot.

 

[AliceShiki]

Mhm! I don't know how to word it!

I think it's something that the proboards site is struggling with, although I'm not sure if it's because it's low activity or if because players aren't interested in making quests that advance a plot in a certain direction.

I think AGv3 benefited a lot from the fact that early on, staff members read quest reports and created quests to investigate/follow up on things that were reported in prior quest reports. Usually, I felt like players were a little bit more shy to do this, and typically did not do it unless they were particularly encouraged by the staff to do so.

As for a bigger plot, I think maybe another word would be a driving theme? Or something? I think the proboards guild also has the issue that it feels boring -- because the starting area is so safe. It has a lethargic kind of feeling where nobody is sure exactly what they want to do. The interesting-ness of the starting area is a major aspect of collecting the initial interest, I think.

Oh yeah, your big participation in early AG certainly helped! \(^^)/

I feel like most players shy away from it because we feel like if the person wanted someone else to investigate, they'd just make a quest about it themselves.

And yeah, some driving theme might help! >.<

That's right, I was just working out the nut as bolts about in the Roll for shoes system and just realised
when a person wants to level up Fire magic from level 9 to 10 they need to fail a 10 or more die roll, then need to roll 9 d6s all 6. or to have stocked up 9 skill points to turn dice rolls 6s

*nod nod nod* It takes a lot of effort to get this much of a high level!

However, I personally think that due to the limitless open-worldness of Probos, it was not necessary to have an overarching plot.

Well, I'm not playing so I can't comment much on it myself, but I agree with the sentiment! xD