Any people who learned English as a second language here?

[AKnightWithaKnife]

I've noticed this very particular thing about native American English speakers. they don't know how to speak their own language right

 

[SailusGebel]

I learned it as a second language.

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

I learned it as a second language.

What’s your first? Mines Igbo

 

[LostLibrarian]

I've noticed this very particular thing about native American English speakers. they don't know how to speak their own language right

It's a thing you have with every language. People who learn a different language start with the high-level rules and follow them.
People who speak their mother tongue often shorten sentences or use constructs that "everyone will also understand".
It gets rather comical when you compare "rude everyday Japanese" with "the correct Japanese for everyday use" a lot of western books or classes teach. 90% of the Japanese sentences would fail the western Japanese exam.


So if you look at writers/readers, most "second language users" are only "the top level" as the others mostly won't be confident enough to publish/comment their ideas in English. Yet for English users, you get the entire society from the high level speakers to the worst ones. So while you also get a lot of high-level native speakers, those low-level native speakers really stand out because they don't have a counterpart...

 

[SailusGebel]

What’s your first? Mines Igbo

My first what?

 

[greyblob]

So if you look at writers/readers, most "second language users" are only "the top level" as the others mostly won't be confident enough to publish/comment their ideas in English.

that doesn't sound right. a good chunk of work on this site is from non-native speakers. every other novel I check has "english isn't my first language" in the description.

 

[BigHoodieBoy]

Me, a native English speaker who can speak his language left: Indeed

 

[LostLibrarian]

that doesn't sound right. a good chunk of work on this site is from non-native speakers. every other novel I check has "english isn't my first language" in the description.

Doesn't really go against my point though? Unless those works are "low quality writing"...
But who knows, maybe the bubble of what we read is also too different.

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

My first what?

Languge

 

[tiaf]

It’s my third, though my first is limited to everyday smalltalk only.

 

[SailusGebel]

Languge

I don't want to answer this question, sorry.

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

It's a thing you have with every language. People who learn a different language start with the high-level rules and follow them.
People who speak their mother tongue often shorten sentences or use constructs that "everyone will also understand".
It gets rather comical when you compare "rude everyday Japanese" with "the correct Japanese for everyday use" a lot of western books or classes teach. 90% of the Japanese sentences would fail the western Japanese exam.


So if you look at writers/readers, most "second language users" are only "the top level" as the others mostly won't be confident enough to publish/comment their ideas in English. Yet for English users, you get the entire society from the high level speakers to the worst ones. So while you also get a lot of high-level native speakers, those low-level native speakers really stand out because they don't have a counterpart...

I’m Talking more in common speak and message boards than writing. I’ve survived webnovel so I can handle bad Written English

I don't want to answer this question, sorry.

sorry for making you uncomfortable!

Me, a native English speaker who can speak his language left: Indeed

When someone uses can instead of may

 

[SailusGebel]

sorry for making you uncomfortable!

I'm not uncomfortable, so don't worry.

 

[greyblob]

Doesn't really go against my point though? Unless those works are "low quality writing"...
But who knows, maybe the bubble of what we read is also too different.

yeah. I thought that went without saying. but anyways, I've scraped the bottom of the barrel more than once, so the different reading material is probably true. often times you can tell if the reader is native or not: some expressions stick out or are just too odd. one thing is fore sure though, there are definitely more "low quality" writing wise from non-native than natives, which makes sense.

 

[miyoga]

It's not unfair to say that 2nd language learners always learn what I call "book language", because it's absolutely true. Native speakers learn it as well, but because of the difference in familiarity with the language, they know how to get their point across in more direct and succinct language. Even at that though, the more you use your 2nd/3rd/whatever language, the more confident and comfortable you get to "play" with language. Quality for anyone can be hit or miss, though, regardless of your mother tongue.

I was on another site where someone was posting "stories". When I say that, what I really mean is that they had half of a plan and wrote a quarter of a chapter, with 10% relevant content to the plan and ultimately making 0 sense. The only way we could get our point across to them was for me to use my 3rd language and communicate in Chinese that they weren't actually posting stories. At the same time, some non-English native speakers came here at the same time I did (we abandoned that other site because the admin wasn't listening to what we were saying, the user should've been banned for what was being said in his "stories") who are phenomenal in what they create.

 

[LostLibrarian]

I’m Talking more in common speak and message boards

Probably due to familarity...

but anyways, I've scraped the bottom of the barrel more than once, so the different reading material is probably true

Yeah, it might just be my bias in reading and picking stories/genres that more "advanced writers" tackle...
So, my bad, I just don't see the bottom of the non-native writers. Let me take back what I said and declare the opposite =)