Fake genre "Historical"

[Aaky]

I normally don't like complaining but like, I can't emphasize how triggered I get when I see a story tagged as "Historical", then I click on it and see the following;

• 100% Fantasy setting
• Sytem
• Isekai
• No mention of Real places
• No mention of Real people
• No description what so ever of the era/year.

Like, at least Wuxia could be considered "Historical" since they mostly give you a feeling of being part of a mystical (Not) China. But like, the rest of the stories I see that use the "Historical" Genre, are just 100% original fantasy settings.

What's up with that?

 

[Nahrenne]

I normally don't like complaining but like, I can't emphasize how triggered I get when I see a story tagged as "Historical", then I click on it and see the following;

• 100% Fantasy setting
• Sytem
• Isekai
• No mention of Real places
• No mention of Real people
• No description what so ever of the era/year.

Like, at least Wuxia could be considered "Historical" since they mostly give you a feeling of being part of a mystical (Not) China. But like, the rest of the stories I see that use the "Historical" Genre, are just 100% original fantasy settings.

What's up with that?

I think it's more cos they often use the feudal system with nobles and castles, etc...thus they tag it as historical.
'-'
That's just my take on it, though.

X

 

[Discount_Blade]

I think it's more cos they often use the feudal system with nobles and castles, etc...thus they tag it as historical.
'-'
That's just my take on it, though.

X

Poor excuse for using historical. If using castles and nobles is all it took, Lord of the Rings, or hell, something as fantasy-like as Fairy Tail anime could be considered historical. If they aren't going to use the tag properly, I wouldn't shed a tear if they were reported.

Historical is ONLY if they use real world places, persons, or events. That is the ONLY criteria that matters. And since nearly ALL of my academic professional pathways are based on history, I've reported several authors on SH for misuse of the historical tag. It's probably one of my biggest pet peeves writing-wise.

So I definitely share the same frustration with @Aaky also, wuxia/xianxia cannot be considered historical unless China is expressly mentioned.

 

[Nahrenne]

Poor excuse for using historical. If using castles and nobles is all it took, Lord of the Rings, or hell, something as fantasy-like as Fairy Tail anime could be considered historical. If they aren't going to use the tag properly, I wouldn't shed a tear if they were reported.

Historical is ONLY if they use real world places, persons, or events. That is the ONLY criteria that matters. And since nearly ALL of my academic professional pathways are based on history, I've reported several authors on SH for misuse of the historical tag. It's probably one of my biggest pet peeves writing-wise.

So I definitely share the same frustration with @Aaky also, wuxia/xianxia cannot be considered historical unless China is expressly mentioned.

I was only giving a plausible explanation as to why people might put the tag.
I honestly don't know the real answer, since I don't do it nor really read historical novels/stories.
'-'

X

 

[yansusustories]

I'd have a question regarding this: I can totally see how using the historical genre would be annoying and why it's wrong to use in the cases you mentioned. Would you say though that it's the same with history-related tags like 'ancient times' or 'ancient China'?

The background of me asking is this: I have a few stories that aren't fantasy in that they don't have any common fantasy elements (e.g. no magic, no mystical creatures, no supernatural elements), the characters are just normal people but the stories aren't historical (so no actual real-world places are used and there isn't any real-world time period mentioned). They do draw on some historical points like customs but those are adapted to fit a setting I otherwise make up (like, if there are customs for worshipping gods, the gods might be made up by me or the ceremonial robes might differ from what's described in the actual records).
I wouldn't assign the historical genre in these cases because, well, it's not historical but I have usually used either the 'ancient times' or 'ancient China' tags (now that I think about it, the former should be more suitable than the latter?) because that is the feeling the stories evoke. In a similar fashion, I would give the 'modern times' or 'modern age' tags for stories with a contemporary feel even if they don't mention actual real-world places. I mostly use these tags so potential readers can distinguish between the settings.
Basically, I use them similar to the 'futuristic setting' tag. Unfortunately, there are no tags that specify some kind of made-up, pseudo-historical setting for such a case as far as I have seen.

Would you say using these tags is appropriate under these circumstances? Or do you have a better suggestion to make clear it's not historical? The fantasy genre or fantasy-related tags don't feel appropriate to me but I wasn't sure what else to use in these cases and I think a distinction is necessary for the readers who don't like the more contemporary stories.

 

[Aaky]

I've reported several authors on SH for misuse of the historical tag.

Were there any results?

 

[S10]

I've reported several authors on SH for misuse of the historical tag.

That seems a bit petty.
People use tags/genres because they think that it is right for their story. It is their choice adding that tag.
Unless if it is so f***ing far off the tag (ie no historical elements at all (ie customs and things)) then it doesn't deserve to be reported.

Just because it is in historical doesn't mean it needs to have real places/people.

You don't need to be over pedantic about a tag.

 

[Jemini]

Like, at least Wuxia could be considered "Historical" since they mostly give you a feeling of being part of a mystical (Not) China. But like, the rest of the stories I see that use the "Historical" Genre, are just 100% original fantasy settings.

You... might want to re-think that logic a little. What's widely considered the "default" fantasy setting is a setting that "gives the feel" of a mystical (not) medieval Europe. So, if you're going to use that logic, all the fantasy you're complaining about gets the exact same pass.

 

[Aaky]

That seems a bit petty.
People use tags/genres because they think that it is right for their story. It is their choice adding that tag.
Unless if it is so f***ing far off the tag (ie no historical elements at all (ie customs and things)) then it doesn't deserve to be reported.

Just because it is in historical doesn't mean it needs to have real places/people.

You don't need to be over pedantic about a tag.

If every story uses the tag, then the tag becomes useless to filter out books when searching for authentic historical settings. I would hope that if I search for history, at least half of the books were set on earth.

 

[Discount_Blade]

That seems a bit petty.
People use tags/genres because they think that it is right for their story. It is their choice adding that tag.
Unless if it is so f***ing far off the tag (ie no historical elements at all (ie customs and things)) then it doesn't deserve to be reported.

Just because it is in historical doesn't mean it needs to have real places/people.

You don't need to be over pedantic about a tag.

Uh yes it does it needs to have real world places, people, or events. That's the entire purpose of the tag. It doesn't need to have all 3, but it needs at least one of them. Historical is meant as in real life history. Just because its similar, if it doesn't have some real world people, places, or events, it's an improper use. I would report you.

Also, customs is such a terrible example. Take sacrifices for example. The Norse tended to sacrifice things they really cared about. Like a chieftain would cut the throat of his favorite horse as an offering to Odin for success in an upcoming battle. I mean their would be more ritual and ceremony to it but I'm just using the general act of sacrifices as an example. So you make an completely fantasy world, and have a people who does the same thing in this world? Still not historical. Wrong tag usage.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Were there any results?

Yes. A few were made to remove the tag, some not though. I guess it depends on how much free time whoever is in charge of this sort of thing has.

 

[Discount_Blade]

I'd have a question regarding this: I can totally see how using the historical genre would be annoying and why it's wrong to use in the cases you mentioned. Would you say though that it's the same with history-related tags like 'ancient times' or 'ancient China'?

The background of me asking is this: I have a few stories that aren't fantasy in that they don't have any common fantasy elements (e.g. no magic, no mystical creatures, no supernatural elements), the characters are just normal people but the stories aren't historical (so no actual real-world places are used and there isn't any real-world time period mentioned). They do draw on some historical points like customs but those are adapted to fit a setting I otherwise make up (like, if there are customs for worshipping gods, the gods might be made up by me or the ceremonial robes might differ from what's described in the actual records).
I wouldn't assign the historical genre in these cases because, well, it's not historical but I have usually used either the 'ancient times' or 'ancient China' tags (now that I think about it, the former should be more suitable than the latter?) because that is the feeling the stories evoke. In a similar fashion, I would give the 'modern times' or 'modern age' tags for stories with a contemporary feel even if they don't mention actual real-world places. I mostly use these tags so potential readers can distinguish between the settings.
Basically, I use them similar to the 'futuristic setting' tag. Unfortunately, there are no tags that specify some kind of made-up, pseudo-historical setting for such a case as far as I have seen.

Would you say using these tags is appropriate under these circumstances? Or do you have a better suggestion to make clear it's not historical? The fantasy genre or fantasy-related tags don't feel appropriate to me but I wasn't sure what else to use in these cases and I think a distinction is necessary for the readers who don't like the more contemporary stories.

If someone has Ancient china tag, but no china, it's an improper use. Now let me be frank, The historical tag is the only one I'm really pet-peeved about so I suppose that makes me a hypocrite. But oh well. So be it.

 

[GoodPuppiWaffles]

That seems a bit petty.
People use tags/genres because they think that it is right for their story. It is their choice adding that tag.
Unless if it is so f***ing far off the tag (ie no historical elements at all (ie customs and things)) then it doesn't deserve to be reported.

Just because it is in historical doesn't mean it needs to have real places/people.

You don't need to be over pedantic about a tag.

Historical fiction, by definition:
"...the genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages. works of this genre, as novels and plays."
Your (incredibly unnecessary) response by definition:
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

If you think that a normal fantasy story is a historical fiction novel, then you're wrong.

 

[yansusustories]

If someone has Ancient china tag, but no china, it's an improper use. Now let me be frank, The historical tag is the only one I'm really pet-peeved about so I suppose that makes me a hypocrite. But oh well. So be it.

I actually think it's alright to feel peeved about this. There aren't that many historical novels on this site in the first place, I suppose (at least it feels that way), so if they are mixed in with others that aren't really historical that makes it difficult to actually find what you like to read. Which is a pity because the search system is one of the nicest things about SH.

Btw, just to make sure I understand it right: the 'ancient China' tag would be a no-go (I actually almost expected that; my original thought was to somehow separate an ancient eastern and western setting but there weren't any better tags available but I see the issue), but 'ancient times' would be alright or would you rule that one out as well?

 

[Discount_Blade]

Historical fiction, by definition:
"...the genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages. works of this genre, as novels and plays."
Your (incredibly unnecessary) response by definition:
lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

If you think that a normal fantasy story is a historical fiction novel, then you're wrong.

Thank you. I just couldn't be bothered to get technical. Mostly because I'm on a phone and I have a hard time typing on it

 

[Discount_Blade]

I actually think it's alright to feel peeved about this. There aren't that many historical novels on this site in the first place, I suppose (at least it feels that way), so if they are mixed in with others that aren't really historical that makes it difficult to actually find what you like to read. Which is a pity because the search system is one of the nicest things about SH.

Btw, just to make sure I understand it right: the 'ancient China' tag would be a no-go (I actually almost expected that; my original thought was to somehow separate an ancient eastern and western setting but there weren't any better tags available but I see the issue), but 'ancient times' would be alright or would you rule that one out as well?

Ancient times would just prefer to any period of time that would seem ancient to us. I mean magic can complicate it but as long as they aren't shooting nukes and firing high powered rifles or surfing the stars in high tech space ships, I see no problem

 

[yansusustories]

Ancient times would just prefer to any period of time that would seem ancient to us. I mean magic can complicate it but as long as they aren't shooting nukes and firing high powered rifles or surfing the stars in high tech space ships, I see no problem

Okay, thank you! Then I can use that

 

[Discount_Blade]

I actually think it's alright to feel peeved about this. There aren't that many historical novels on this site in the first place, I suppose (at least it feels that way), so if they are mixed in with others that aren't really historical that makes it difficult to actually find what you like to read. Which is a pity because the search system is one of the nicest things about SH.

Btw, just to make sure I understand it right: the 'ancient China' tag would be a no-go (I actually almost expected that; my original thought was to somehow separate an ancient eastern and western setting but there weren't any better tags available but I see the issue), but 'ancient times' would be alright or would you rule that one out as well?

Like for example, I was once conceived an idea to write about the events of the Fourth Crusade and the aftermath with original characters as well as historical, except all of the soldiers involved were mages. The events still happened as they did, but the soldiers involved were mages. This would be a very good example of adding magic and still being historical fiction. Even if the outcome is different from what happened historically, it would still suffice to be considered for the historical tag.

 

[K5Rakitan]

There, there *hugs* here's one that might cheer you up:

Treasures of the Night: Bond, Bruce Lee: 9781940233246: Amazon.com: Books

Treasures of the Night [Bond, Bruce Lee] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Treasures of the Night

www.amazon.com

 

[Discount_Blade]

There, there *hugs* here's one that might cheer you up:

Treasures of the Night: Bond, Bruce Lee: 9781940233246: Amazon.com: Books

Treasures of the Night [Bond, Bruce Lee] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Treasures of the Night

www.amazon.com

lol wut? XDDDD