First Chapter Feedback

LynaForge

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Hi. I've seen others do this and would love to offer a first chapter feedback exchange. I'll be as detailed with yours as you are with mine.

Any takers?

Here is my story that I'm looking to exchange feedback for.

 
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I don't have any stories posted for you to give feedback on, but I read the first chapter.

Your premise is interesting, but I would suggest re-thinking your edit process.

Wyrn knew one truth. It was the only truth his father'd ever tell him. Most nights, he bustled around the long wooden table, as his father's ale-reeking tall stature came stomping in from a hunt. The old man scan his seven sons with pride until his eyes settled on Wyrn. And most nights, his father dropped the pelts on the floor but did not look as his wife hurried to snatch them up. Instead, he'd allow his gaze to linger on Wyrn for a long minute before speaking.

He never mentioned Wyrn's uneven top lip, born looking as if it was cut clean through and healed that way. He never talked about Wyrn's big blue eyes. He never even mentioned Wyrn's small size. He was five to five though his brothers all towered over most men—well above six.

No. By the fading sunlight at his back, he'd say but one thing—the one truth.

"Hmp. If you're to get a wife—you'd have to steal one."
These are, of course, your first few lines. I'll post edited versions along with comments on the edits, so you can get an idea of what I'm saying.

Tense change from past to present.
Wyrn knew one truth. It was the only truth his father'd ever tell him.
Wyrn knew one truth, it was the only thing his father ever told him.

This sentence is "fine" but it could be made more concise and have the clarity improved.
Most nights, he bustled around the long wooden table, as his father's ale-reeking tall stature came stomping in from a hunt.
Most nights, Wyrn bustled around the long wooden table, as his father's tall frame came stomping into the hut reeking of ale and dragging a freshly hunted carcass behind him.

Not much wrong here either, the glaring issues are "scan". He is looking at more than one person, and it is past tense, so it should be "scanned". Secondly, the second sentence begins with "And". That is considered a bad form in English writing. Lastly, the final sentence is just wacky.
The old man scan his seven sons with pride until his eyes settled on Wyrn. And most nights, his father dropped the pelts on the floor but did not look as his wife hurried to snatch them up. Instead, he'd allow his gaze to linger on Wyrn for a long minute before speaking.
The old man scanned his seven other sons with pride, but his eyes held only contempt for Wyrn. Most nights, his father would simply drop his hunt's spoils on the floor, paying no mind to his wife as she hurried to try and tidy them up. Instead of minding his wife, his father would gaze at Wyrn, his eyes seeming to rebuke his son for a long minute until he finally opened his mouth.

The first sentence implies Wyrn's lip was born, not Wyrn. Five to Five what? Inches? Feet? Meters? Six what? It might seem obvious, but leaving out the units of measurement is the mark of an amateur. "By the fading sunlight...he said..." You don't say things "by sunlight." Lastly, you left the dialogue hanging.
He never mentioned Wyrn's uneven top lip, born looking as if it was cut clean through and healed that way. He never talked about Wyrn's big blue eyes. He never even mentioned Wyrn's small size. He was five to five though his brothers all towered over most men—well above six.

No. By the fading sunlight at his back, he'd say but one thing—the one truth.

"Hmp. If you're to get a wife—you'd have to steal one."
He never mentioned Wyrn's cleft lip, appearing as if someone had run a knife through it when he was but a babe. He never brought up Wyrn's bulbous blue eyes. Nor did he speak of Wyrn's own small stature; though both his father and brother's stood well over six feet, Wyrn had yet to reach five and a half.

No, with the fading sunlight at his back, his father would say but one thing. One truth, "Hmph. If you're to get a wife, you'd have to steal one."


If you can, install the free version of Grammarly, it compliments Word or Google Docs built-in editor quite well. If you speak English fluently, consider reading aloud to yourself; this helps to catch a lot of errors. If you edit manually, change the font to one you don't normally see; this causes your brain to focus on the words more closely, increasing the number of mistakes you can catch.


I did not leave a review, since you only asked for feedback on the first chapter. If I were to rate the story in its current form, from what I have seen, I would give it a three out of five. In general, it's good, but the grammar issues really stick out and detract from the story as a whole.
 

LunaSoltaer

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What sort of review are you looking for? I probably won't do much of an edit pass on it, since Loli beat me to it :3

Unless you, like, specifically ask me to look at grammar and structure. Are you looking for a more in depth analysis, or a casual "this is how I would feel as a reader"? Also would you like the first chapter to be talked about on its own, or am I allowed to use insights from your next couple chapters (no guarantees I would, but I'd consider it)
 

LynaForge

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I don't have any stories posted for you to give feedback on, but I read the first chapter.

Your premise is interesting, but I would suggest re-thinking your edit process.


These are, of course, your first few lines. I'll post edited versions along with comments on the edits, so you can get an idea of what I'm saying.

Tense change from past to present.
Wyrn knew one truth. It was the only truth his father'd ever tell him.
Wyrn knew one truth, it was the only thing his father ever told him.

This sentence is "fine" but it could be made more concise and have the clarity improved.
Most nights, he bustled around the long wooden table, as his father's ale-reeking tall stature came stomping in from a hunt.
Most nights, Wyrn bustled around the long wooden table, as his father's tall frame came stomping into the hut reeking of ale and dragging a freshly hunted carcass behind him.

Not much wrong here either, the glaring issues are "scan". He is looking at more than one person, and it is past tense, so it should be "scanned". Secondly, the second sentence begins with "And". That is considered a bad form in English writing. Lastly, the final sentence is just wacky.
The old man scan his seven sons with pride until his eyes settled on Wyrn. And most nights, his father dropped the pelts on the floor but did not look as his wife hurried to snatch them up. Instead, he'd allow his gaze to linger on Wyrn for a long minute before speaking.
The old man scanned his seven other sons with pride, but his eyes held only contempt for Wyrn. Most nights, his father would simply drop his hunt's spoils on the floor, paying no mind to his wife as she hurried to try and tidy them up. Instead of minding his wife, his father would gaze at Wyrn, his eyes seeming to rebuke his son for a long minute until he finally opened his mouth.

The first sentence implies Wyrn's lip was born, not Wyrn. Five to Five what? Inches? Feet? Meters? Six what? It might seem obvious, but leaving out the units of measurement is the mark of an amateur. "By the fading sunlight...he said..." You don't say things "by sunlight." Lastly, you left the dialogue hanging.
He never mentioned Wyrn's uneven top lip, born looking as if it was cut clean through and healed that way. He never talked about Wyrn's big blue eyes. He never even mentioned Wyrn's small size. He was five to five though his brothers all towered over most men—well above six.

No. By the fading sunlight at his back, he'd say but one thing—the one truth.

"Hmp. If you're to get a wife—you'd have to steal one."
He never mentioned Wyrn's cleft lip, appearing as if someone had run a knife through it when he was but a babe. He never brought up Wyrn's bulbous blue eyes. Nor did he speak of Wyrn's own small stature; though both his father and brother's stood well over six feet, Wyrn had yet to reach five and a half.

No, with the fading sunlight at his back, his father would say but one thing. One truth, "Hmph. If you're to get a wife, you'd have to steal one."


If you can, install the free version of Grammarly, it compliments Word or Google Docs built-in editor quite well. If you speak English fluently, consider reading aloud to yourself; this helps to catch a lot of errors. If you edit manually, change the font to one you don't normally see; this causes your brain to focus on the words more closely, increasing the number of mistakes you can catch.


I did not leave a review, since you only asked for feedback on the first chapter. If I were to rate the story in its current form, from what I have seen, I would give it a three out of five. In general, it's good, but the grammar issues really stick out and detract from the story as a whole.
Hello, thank you. I do speak English natively and these are all stylistic choices (except for the "scan" one, that's a typo). I chose "five to the five" to indicate this was a different place, realm, way of counting but without having to reinvent the wheel.

Even though it's 3rd person POV, my intent was 3rd person limited so I'd wanted the narration to read a bit like how Wryn himself talks.

Until now, I'd never imagined that it would all be seen as poor grammar and nothing more. You've given me a lot to think about.

I truly appreciate it.

Thank you.
What sort of review are you looking for? I probably won't do much of an edit pass on it, since Loli beat me to it :3

Unless you, like, specifically ask me to look at grammar and structure. Are you looking for a more in depth analysis, or a casual "this is how I would feel as a reader"? Also would you like the first chapter to be talked about on its own, or am I allowed to use insights from your next couple chapters (no guarantees I would, but I'd consider it)
Hi. I'm just looking to make the chapter better so I'll take anything I can get. So one chapter or more, I'd be grateful. I'll pass on the grammar part for now unless you find anything glaring or think there's something I should address.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to use the feedback from the previous poster.

I appreciate any feedback you have to offer. Thank you.
 
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Hello, thank you. I do speak English natively and these are all stylistic choices (except for the "scan" one, that's a typo). I chose "five to the five" to indicate this was a different place, realm, way of counting but without having to reinvent the wheel.

Even though it's 3rd person POV, my intent was 3rd person limited so I'd wanted the narration to read a bit like how Wryn himself talks.

Until now, I'd never imagined that it would all be seen as poor grammar and nothing more. You've given me a lot to think about.

I truly appreciate it.

Thank you.
Typically, you don't want the third-person narration to be stylized. You could get away with stylized narration by shifting to the first-person perspective, but that would be very time-consuming and would introduce a bunch of its own problems.

A good example of a book with stylized first-person narration would be Forest Gump, but it was really only popular after the movie adaptation. Prior to the movie, it was considered a failure owing primarily to the stylized narration. Still, that sounds what you were going for; in Forest Gump, Forest is both the main character and the narrator.

I cannot think of a good example of a book with stylized third-person narration. Standard practice for third-person perspective is to write the narration in the common manner of speech for the book's target audience and then stylize dialogue.

I chose "five to the five" to indicate this was a different place, realm, way of counting but without having to reinvent the wheel.
Zeroing in on this. That's bad. Don't do that. Unless you want to fully invent a new system of counting, measuring, and speaking, just use metric. Unless your name is J.R.R. Tolkien, you will almost certainly fail. (Seriously, he wrote the entire lord of the rings saga to promote his fictional elf language...)

That being said, there is absolutely no way a full system is developed without units. Unless you want the society to be backward and lack any form of technology, advanced construction, agriculture, medicine, or really any science. If Wryn doesn't know units, then this can be better portrayed in his dialogue than in the narration.
 

LynaForge

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Typically, you don't want the third-person narration to be stylized. You could get away with stylized narration by shifting to the first-person perspective, but that would be very time-consuming and would introduce a bunch of its own problems.

A good example of a book with stylized first-person narration would be Forest Gump, but it was really only popular after the movie adaptation. Prior to the movie, it was considered a failure owing primarily to the stylized narration. Still, that sounds what you were going for; in Forest Gump, Forest is both the main character and the narrator.

I cannot think of a good example of a book with stylized third-person narration. Standard practice for third-person perspective is to write the narration in the common manner of speech for the book's target audience and then stylize dialogue.


Zeroing in on this. That's bad. Don't do that. Unless you want to fully invent a new system of counting, measuring, and speaking, just use metric. Unless your name is J.R.R. Tolkien, you will almost certainly fail. (Seriously, he wrote the entire lord of the rings saga to promote his fictional elf language...)

That being said, there is absolutely no way a full system is developed without units. Unless you want the society to be backward and lack any form of technology, advanced construction, agriculture, medicine, or really any science. If Wryn doesn't know units, then this can be better portrayed in his dialogue than in the narration.
The unit of measure is not mentioned again in the entire book. And it is a backward society. I didn't want to focus on something the reader didn't need later. Therefore I put it in casually. I guess that was lazy of me.

I do appreciate your feedback. Till now, I'd told myself that it just needs its own audience but I think I should face facts that it's not going to amount to much.

I'll think the story. Thank you.
 
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the one major flaw is floating dialogue.
there is a nice way of fixing it while also sneaking in some descriptions like this:
"Hmp. If you're to get a wife—you'd have to steal one," he spat out, showing his yellow crooked teeth.
"And when you lose your teeth on top of everything else, what will you do then?" She crossed her thick bushy brows. "Hmm, Wyrnol, what will you do then? Who will love you then?"

next chapter starts way too abruptly. you need a slower introduction, or at least continue off from before. I only realized they're in the tournament about half way into the chapter.

"It is no secret, hunchback," the king called, "that you can spit insults unafraid of an immediate execution. And do you know why? There is a warlord to the north with a hunchback son. And he's sent out a message far and wide, anyone who kills this boy will incur his wrath. Now, these savages aren't necessarily anyone worth fearing, but they can become a nuisance. Therefore, most people will allow you your talk. I suppose your kind have become rather emboldened. But you forget one thing...."

I don't get this. warlord's son also has a cripple, so everyone is afraid of killing him? the king doesn't really need to kill him, maybe throw him in the cells for a few weeks. seems far fetched to me. the king is admitting to be scared of the warlord.

anyways, things just feel rushed. give important decisions more time, and allow his personality to shine more. the atmosphere feels comical-ish? I'm not sure if you were going for that, but I think it works. I also think if you slow down a bit, you're gonna produce something much more polished. the development is pretty interesting , and I'm curious where it'll go, so I've added it to my rl. I'll let you know what else I find when I get around to it.

(also don't review my first chapters. I'm trying to forget about those)
 

LynaForge

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next chapter starts way too abruptly. you need a slower introduction, or at least continue off from before. I only realized they're in the tournament about half way into the chapter.
Ah. I hadn't thought about this. Okay. I will try to mention the location much sooner.
don't get this. warlord's son also has a cripple, so everyone is afraid of killing him? the king doesn't really need to kill him, maybe throw him in the cells for a few weeks. seems far fetched to me. the king is admitting to be scared of the warlord.
This gets explained later on why kings would not want to incur Wyrn's father's wrath. I will try to hint this a bit better. Thank you.
anyways, things just feel rushed. give important decisions more time, and allow his personality to shine more. the atmosphere feels comical-ish? I'm not sure if you were going for that, but I think it works. I also think if you slow down a bit, you're gonna produce something much more polished. the development is pretty interesting , and I'm curious where it'll go, so I've added it to my rl. I'll let you know what else I find when I get around to it.
I actually worried things were too slow. I'll give the first few chapters another read through and see if I can't flesh it out a bit more. Thanks a lot for the feedback. I appreciate it. And thanks for giving it a read. If you ever change your mind and want me to read something of yours, please let me know.
 
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This gets explained later on why kings would not want to incur Wyrn's father's wrath. I will try to hint this a bit better. Thank you.
yeah, I got that later, but I think my point still stands. He's openly insulting and disrespecting the king. and the king does nothing and admits he's afraid of his father? I don't know if this was intentional or not, but he comes off as a complete coward.
also, the reasoning is a bit off. the king finds out that his daughter fancies this handsome prince. he doesn't like that, so instead he forces her to marry an ugly cripple. is he this stupid or is he trying to establish a bond with the barbarians? I'm also not sure if this is intentional or not since I haven't read more yet.

I actually worried things were too slow. I'll give the first few chapters another read through and see if I can't flesh it out a bit more. Thanks a lot for the feedback. I appreciate it. And thanks for giving it a read. If you ever change your mind and want me to read something of yours, please let me know.
hmm I'm not sure. I think you're going a tad bit fast and that messes with the flow. it could be just preference. a second opinion might help
 

LynaForge

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also, the reasoning is a bit off. the king finds out that his daughter fancies this handsome prince. he doesn't like that, so instead he forces her to marry an ugly cripple. is he this stupid or is he trying to establish a bond with the barbarians? I'm also not sure if this is intentional or not since I haven't read more yet.
Yes. This gets explained by chapter 4, too. But I'll go back and rethink the pacing. I appreciate you taking the time to give it a look.
 

LunaSoltaer

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Little late to the story, sorry, but here are my first impressions-ish: (this review is only covering Chap 1, so apologies if I say something obvious or silly that gets explained in the next chapter.)

"5 to 5" -> I can see how this is a turnoff. I personally am slightly intrigued by this, but I'm weird. Based on the feel of the setting, you're probably writing from a before-measurements-were-standardized perspective. I personally would have attached what it meant (for example, 5 (parts) to 5 (bowling pins) translating to 5 hands (stacked on top of each other like a game of sandwich) shy of 5 bowling pins. This would likely be about... 70 or so inches based on my measurement of a hand being about an inch thick because Google wouldn't spit out the dimension I wanted.) The idea is to tie this "5 to 5" in terms of real world objects that would reasonably exist if you don't want standardized measurements yet. I should warn you, however, that if you're going to use "5 to 5" or other constructions, that you're going to need to do a good job at inventing cultures from scratch, and thinking about how your society would realistically operate. This is because your audience will need to be sold on the idea of the new expressions and standards. I won't tell you not to do this, as LoliWithAGlock as done, but if you're going to do this, think it through and if you don't feel confident, don't. I do a little bit of this sort of thing in my work, Solstice, in my time system, but that's because I declared the setting to have 8-day weeks, and every month is exactly 32 days. Oh yeah, I also named the months after their ordinal position, so September 5th would be "Friday, Fifth of Ninth" (and the fifth of the month is ALWAYS Friday, due to the calendar alterations. Doesn't matter the year.)

There was one bit stylistically:

"And when you lose your teeth on top of everything else, what will you do then? Hmm, Wyrnol, what will you do then? Who will love you then?"


I would drop the quotes and italicise it, something like:

He'd never eaten a fruit. Mother never allowed it. The one time he'd made the attempt, she'd snatched it away. Her voice followed him even now: And when you lose your teeth on top of everything else, what will you do then? Hmm, Wyrnol, what will you do then? Who will love you then?

This is mostly for style though, and you can keep the quotes if you wanted to. You could also do something like:

"And when you lose your teeth on top of everything else, what will you do then? Hmm, Wyrnol, what will you do then? Who will love you then?" she had scolded.


using the Past Perfect to throw things even more in the past form Simple Past.

I had to read it a couple times to figure out that it was Wyrn who had whipped the guards. I can see it being assumed that Hey, I Have A Donkey, I Should Have An Instrument To Guide The Donkey. I would have made a sentence earlier with the whip to set it up as existing and being there so the audience goes "Aw Sweet!" rather than "Wait What?"

I also thought it was Wyrn at first who said "Unhand me!" rather than the (I'm assuming) love interest. Something I would have liked to see, however, is Wyrn flipping out when the guards (!) and Prince (!!!) changed their tune completely and utterly. Like, this is Royalty we're talking about here, and NOW they wanna play nice? I'd be wondering who the frik frak fukkity shit my parents were!!

More stylistically speaking, I feel you can benefit a lot from using Active Voice more than Passive. Take for instance:

It was a scream that caused him to turn around and see what the fuss was about. A young woman, with luscious black hair and a lean face struggled in the clutches of the guards who led her down the street.

You could probably switch it to active, and then lean on your ability to create metaphors, to do something like:

A young woman's scream wrenched Wyrn's eyes toward a beauty, luscious black hair adorning quite a lean face, struggling in the grips of two guards walking her down the street.

Gets you more in on the action. All in all, um, I think I'll be continuing this. I'm really bad when it comes to procrastinating, so don't worry too much if I don't reply (I haven't forgotten). I kinda wanna see where this goes. Again, my review is based on first chapter only, and is kinda off the cuff.

If you want to, you can find my work. You don't have to review the first chapter or anything if you don't want to (I'm also writing Chapter 25 so I wouldn't be able to execute on anything in the first chapter short of a rewrite.) It's also not my best as I originally started it for NaNoWriMo, though I am continuing it mostly because I want to.

I wish you all the best of luck and... *checks tags* You're also doing an Elemental Magic system?!! Ooooh!!! I um I might like settings with magic. Oh AND Weak To Strong! Okay this is gonna be good :3
 

LynaForge

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I had to read it a couple times to figure out that it was Wyrn who had whipped the guards. I can see it being assumed that Hey, I Have A Donkey, I Should Have An Instrument To Guide The Donkey. I would have made a sentence earlier with the whip to set it up as existing and being there so the audience goes "Aw Sweet!" rather than "Wait What?"
You're right. I'll go back and fix this.
A young woman's scream wrenched Wyrn's eyes toward a beauty, luscious black hair adorning quite a lean face, struggling in the grips of two guards walking her down the street.
Okay. You have a point. I'll change this.
I'll also clear up the bit about who said 'unhand me.' Thanks so much. I appreciate it. I found your story and I'll give you feedback shortly.

Thank you so much for your thorough feedback. It was very helpful.
 

LynaForge

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If you want to, you can find my work. You don't have to review the first chapter or anything if you don't want to (I'm also writing Chapter 25 so I wouldn't be able to execute on anything in the first chapter short of a rewrite.) It's also not my best as I originally started it for NaNoWriMo, though I am continuing it mostly because I want to.

Okay, I've finished your first chapter. That was a very smooth read. It was a lot of info to digest but I think it wasn't overwhelming.

I now see that I overlooked some things that were definitely mentioned in the story. I'll list them here but I want to say beforehand that when I went back and started the chapter over, the info I wanted WAS there.

1. I had no idea what the main character's name was. Yes, his name was Emmet but nobody called him by name though he used THEIR names so often.
2. I hadn't known the main character was a boy. It was finally when Barbra said 'errand boy' that I realized it. Again, the chapter says right at the top [Emmet] but halfway down through the chapter (taking in all the rich backstory), I'd sadly forgotten. Maybe have Jacqueline say 'boy' a few times.
3. I hadn't known how much time had passed. Again, this was mentioned early in the chapter that it had been 5 years. And then that he hadn't spoken for 3 years after the attack. Then he was a 13 year old orphan. I kinda feel like I wanted the age spelled out somewhere.

i.e. Now, at eighteen, I was a failure.

etc. but again, that's just me.
4. The flashback within the present wasn't always easy to decipher. Let me put a disclaimer that high fantasy isn't really my genre so I'm not your target audience. I think someone who is used to this type of story will find the shift effortless. It wasn't jarring enough that I wanted to stop. In fact, I really wanted to understand the way things worked and that was laid out pretty well at the start. I knew who the MC was and what was expected of him. I liked that he had flaws and was humbly working through it. I would have liked to have gotten to know him a bit (what he wanted, what his goals were etc.) but there was a lot of action and the pacing was worked well, I think.

Overall, I think the story has a lot of action and adventure to offer. It really radiated off the page. I liked the strong female characters and the MC's personality was easy to relate to. I see now what you (and others) had meant about putting the new unites of measurement or counting on display. It does make the story feel fuller.
 

kingsky123

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Hi, i enjoyed your chapter 1.

But i think there were some grammatical errors " his father'd ever tell him" -> His father ever told him?

"The old man scan his seven sons untill he laid eyes on wyrn" i think it should be scanned or maybe another word like surveyed but i think thats nitpicking at this point.

there is a general idea and direction of the story and i like the pacing, will look forward to more chapters of your tale!

Personally i would prefer more description of the surrounding areas and the guards and prince but i understand your trying to progress the story.

Maybe you could sneak descriptions between your actions like for example "the prince's golden hair became disheveled or like blue eyes winced after the kick" or something.

my story is in my signature, i hope you can provide feedback for it
 

Deeprotsorcerer

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Hi, hi! I have returned, I promised I would, though I am very late.


I understand that it may be a stylistic choice, but I’d gently consider that you refine your approach somehow or rethink it. When you do things like this:

he'd allow his gaze to linger on Wyrn for a long minute before speaking.

and

his eyes followed one, curious.

It creates unnecessary distance between characters and actions. These constructions are useful for conveying a lack of control, disorientation, or instinctual fear by implying a body part did something independent of the owner, but you’re just taxing your sentence flow for no visible benefit here. You also burden your economy of words, the fact that you use passive voice pretty often worsens the issue.

I don’t feel any kind of way about the “five to five” bit, especially when you’ve provided a comparison to both Wryn’s brothers and “most men”, I can get a good estimate of (at least what I believe is) his height. The only issue going forward is that a reader might expect you to expand on, and keep track of measurements using this system, which can be taxing at best.

Once inside the palace walls, the houses and shops impressed him. This wasn't the farm but the city.

This line feels slightly off. It does work as a proper transition but it’s rather sudden. I was expecting at least a little bit of sensory information to anchor me to the scene.

Now that I think about it, this sorta clings to the rest of the chapter. I can tell what’s happening and the narrative is good enough at exploring Wyrn’s feelings and motivations, I’m just not getting much of a solid picture of anything, it doesn’t feel as sharp or “real” to me as I’d want it to as a result.

He tried to dismount is cart,

“his cart” or "the cart"

All in all, I think your novel is competitive, it’s above most of the works here on Scribblehub quality-wise, and can be even better with the aid of an editor and some time spent expanding your descriptions. Good job.


If you're still swapping feedback, I'd love it if you could take a look at my nsfw (no porn yet, sorry) litRPG here:

 
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