Implemented For the sake of human civilisation, give the schedule publishing a "military" clock.

Assurbanipal_II

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Pls, give us the option to organise scheduled chapters according to a 24-hour clock, and not AM and PM. It might be good for Americans, but for the rest of the world it is a pain in the arse, and a highly fustrating experience. It is not the first time my release misfired because of AM/PM complications.

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Tony

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No, it's not an American vs all thingy. There's no malicious intentions as no matter how many sites you've build or how many years you've been building them, you will always forget something or a lot of things. It's normal.

When building SH, I'm usually thinking of what I would like as an author/reader. I'm obviously not thinking of "How am I going to piss off non-Americans today....". SH took about a year to build with hundred of thousands of lines of code, I would obviously forget a ton of stuff as I'm human after all. There's also a ton of bugs.

It's fair to say you're frustrated though but calm down with the "Even though I don't know him, I know he's doing it on purpose!!!" :blobrofl:. That's just silly.

I'm a bit busy this week so I'll start working on this feature on Monday.
 

Assurbanipal_II

Empress of the Four Corners of the World
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No, it's not an American vs all thingy. There's no malicious intentions as no matter how many sites you've build or how many years you've been building them, you will always forget something or a lot of things. It's normal.

When building SH, I'm usually thinking of what I would like as an author/reader. I'm obviously not thinking of "How am I going to piss off non-Americans today....". SH took about a year to build with hundred of thousands of lines of code, I would obviously forget a ton of stuff as I'm human after all. There's also a ton of bugs.

It's fair to say you're frustrated though but calm down with the "Even though I don't know him, I know he's doing it on purpose!!!" :blobrofl:. That's just silly.

I'm a bit busy this week so I'll start working on this feature on Monday.
Come on, are you even reading my stuff? Where did I attest you malicious intentions?
 

longer

Balls
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Maybe I'm the idiot, but I have no idea how using a.m. and p.m. are pro-American. I've lived and worked in the U.S, Europe, and Asia and every place was using a.m. and p.m. for their time zone. The only time I use UTC is when I'm at an airport.

Still, I don't the issue is invalid, certainly worth changing because it certainly is inconvenient for some people. But the inconvenience is mainly centered around misreading and the slight bother of googling the time zone conversion.
 

CadmarLegend

@Agentt found a key in the skeletons.
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Come on, are you even reading my stuff? Where did I attest you malicious intentions?
Sooo...
I left the option open by stating "either not a single second was spent on users abroad, or a deliberate decision was made to accommodate the American user base with what they are familiar."

It is either or, but I am well familiar with "ignorance" without malicious intention. Not that it matters for the other side, as the damage is already done by such an attitude.

And, yes, we can clearly judge him. We live in a globalised world and contact with other systems should be at least be considered. It is not as if this is his first site, far from it. He has years of experience by this point, and the clock debate isn't any new. In fact, if I look now, the site uses Month Day Year as formatting. Less essential, a further sign for whom the site was designed in mind.

As such, Tony cannot claim ignorance for what I would consider at this point best practices and professional diligence. You can understand why he did what he did and where he comes from, but that doesn't mean that it is acceptable. He might not be guilty (morally), but he is still responsible (logically).
NOTE: Anything in quotes ("") are your direct quotes. Any brackets ([ ]) within the quotes are me changing the tenses to fit the situation. Single quotes ( ' ' ) are me separating phrases from the rest of the sentence so that they are easier to read. They are in no way connected to your quotations aside from the use of general words (ex. the, ignorance, malicious, etc.)/NOTE




You put into quotations the ignorance you spoke of. That generally means you think it's not really ignorance, but actually something else. Then further said that it doesn't matter if it was ignorance or not, but that "the damage ... [was] ... already done." If that isn't considered malicious intent by humanity, I don't know what is - you know, doing damage to another person/culture with your attitude, especially when you said it wasn't exactly done by "ignorance" as many know it.

Still, you had a way out by saying that you just accidentally put ignorance in quotations, but it was closed off by the various remarks you started making afterward.

First, you said we can clearly judge him. I was still kind of okay with that, since, yeah, this is an international site. However, after that, you said, and I'm directly quoting you, "Less essential, a further sign for whom the site was designed in mind."

The second sentence of your post said that the ignorance wasn't exactly malicious, but then you said the above quote. Meaning, you had suspicions about how it was designed and for whom it was designed. That basically canceled out your sentence saying that Tony could have had ignorance about the topic. You had, indirectly, said that it probably wasn't ignorance.

Even so, it doesn't exactly contradict your sentence here, right?
It is either or, but I am well familiar with "ignorance" without malicious intention. Not that it matters for the other side, as the damage is already done by such an attitude.

Now, let's just read the second-to-last part that I boldened and italicized.

"Tony cannot claim ignorance"

Do you get it?

What you just did was, propose 2 choices, tore one down to shreds using details you added in unnecessarily, only allowed one choice to be made, then said it had never happened.

You might not have understood it, but you did something quite unconsciously. Something that you were probably thinking of in your mind.

You pretended to give multiple options. Then, you only allowed one option.

I'll be clearer since misunderstandings are quite common over the internet.

What you alluded to here was that doing something 'while having ignorance that it might be malicious' was not the same as having malicious intentions (even if it still caused grief).
It is either or, but I am well familiar with "ignorance" without malicious intention. Not that it matters for the other side, as the damage is already done by such an attitude.
HOWEVER!

You said in this below post that Tony cannot claim ignorance.
As such, Tony cannot claim ignorance for what I would consider at this point best practices and professional diligence.

This means that, according to you, what Tony did cannot be considered a simple mistake that anyone could have made, but one that was done with malicious intentions.

I know, you didn't "attest" him of those intentions directly, but you were clearly glazing your words and messages in ways that meant you thought he did.

And, in a digital space, that is all that matters.

Of course, this might have been a simple mistake on your part. But who knows, according to you. After all, you have been put into the same situation as the one you accused (possibly).




TLDR;

the ways you wrote your messages, the way they were laid out, and the other messages you posted all contributed to saying it was malicious intent. yes, you didn't say it clearly. But you narrowed it down indirectly into it being malicious intent.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
oh, and sorry if it was a misunderstanding. I just really went on a rant here, huh? Orz

anyhow, your request is getting implemented, so cheers to you~
 

Ilikewaterkusa

You have to take out their families...
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Pls, give us the option to organise scheduled chapters according to a 24-hour clock, and not AM and PM. It might be good for Americans, but for the rest of the world it is a pain in the arse, and a highly fustrating experience. It is not the first time my release misfired because of AM/PM complications.

View attachment 11799
Based
 

Kenjona

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Not so much as me giving a toss about the change, if needed, why it was done and so forth. But I am just in the mood to kibitz a bit.

I also have traveled the world and 24 hour clocks has been becoming standard for many due to the spread of computer systems. It has been becoming a part of society because it is invaluable in coordinating systems, especially computer systems. So yes it has been spreading and has been adopted by countries over the decades as a standard system. But even those countries that have a 24 hour clock as standard also still have and use 12 hour time keeping systems. EVERY SINGLE one of them, bar none.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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You can understand why he did what he did and where he comes from, but that doesn't mean that it is acceptable. He might not be guilty (morally), but he is still responsibleSooo...

NOTE: Anything in quotes ("") are your direct quotes. Any brackets ([ ]) within the quotes are me changing the tenses to fit the situation. Single quotes ( ' ' ) are me separating phrases from the rest of the sentence so that they are easier to read. They are in no way connected to your quotations aside from the use of general words (ex. the, ignorance, malicious, etc.)/NOTE

Let's settle this then ...

First terminology ...

Ignorance: The state of not knowing, eternalised in the proverb, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Dolus: Dolus, aka malicious intent, is an element of criminal and civil law. In the case of criminal law a degree of culpability, while in the case of civil law an element of liability. Dolus is defined as the intent to cause unlawful harm.

Culpa: Culpa, aka negligence, is like dolus an element of criminal and civil law. In the case of criminal law a degree of culpability, while in the case of civil law an element of liability. Culpa is defined as fault, as negligent behaviour and lack of prudence in a given situation that produces unlawful harm. So in contrast to dolus, a failure of heart, negligence is a failure of intellect and requires no intent whatsoever.

In the case of culpa, you are thus responsible even in the total absence of dolus for your actions, which is my essential point.

I put ignorance into quotations as you said because I didn't believe it was ignorance, but rather negligence from his side, as I later pointed out. But that is not that important, as the distinction between negligence and ignorance is floating. What is excusable ignorance, what is not?

"Then further said that it doesn't matter if it was ignorance or not, but that "the damage ... [was] ... already done." If that isn't considered malicious intent by humanity, I don't know what is - you know, doing damage to another person/culture with your attitude, especially when you said it wasn't exactly done by "ignorance" as many know it."


In the light of the definitions above, ignorance indeed doesn't matter as you can cause and are responsible "damage" even without intent. In fact, not even fault is necessary in cases of strict liability, in which neither intent nor fault is required to produce consequences, such as product liability.

So, yes, "ignorance", negligence, can be harmful without malicious intent. And that was my point.

"First, you said we can clearly judge him. I was still kind of okay with that, since, yeah, this is an international site. However, after that, you said, and I'm directly quoting you, "Less essential, a further sign for whom the site was designed in mind.""

It was evidence that Tony designed the site with what he was familiar (American settings), which is arguably true. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It was also a response to the statement the 12 hour clock is not purely American. If we add the date formatting we get a clearer picture. Many countries use a 12 hour clock. Few countries use a 12 hour clock and MM/DD/YY.

"Now, let's just read the second-to-last part that I boldened and italicized.

"Tony cannot claim ignorance"

Do you get it?"


You must read the entire sentence, then it makes sense. He cannot invoke ignorance for what is clearly a case of negligence based on his experience.

"You pretended to give multiple options. Then, you only allowed one option."


I gave a dolus and culpa option. I think the latter applies as can be deduced from my later statements, "You can understand why he did what he did and where he comes from, but that doesn't mean that it is acceptable. He might not be guilty (morally), but he is still responsible."

I know where he comes from. I know why he did what he did. I know there was no intent, but that doesn't make it acceptable. There is an issue, and issue to be solved regardless of intent or fault. Because I will admit "damage", "negligence", "intent", etc. really sounds more dramatic in this situation than it is, even if it is the correct terminology.

That is why I excluded guilt. Guilt is a moral criminal category, the responsibility for a wrongdoing. It is not a wrongdoing here. That would be too dramatic. This is more of a philosophical discourse, really, about responsibility and the causality between "ignorance" and external consequences. Anyway, Tony is still responsible. Tony is accountable. He implemented the system. It is also the reason we can make suggestions as he is aware of his position as the one in charge.

"anyhow, your request is getting implemented, so cheers to you~"

Only after arguing with half of the forum. ^^
 

Zirrboy

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Let's settle this then ...

First terminology ...

Ignorance: The state of not knowing, eternalised in the proverb, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Dolus: Dolus, aka malicious intent, is an element of criminal and civil law. In the case of criminal law a degree of culpability, while in the case of civil law an element of liability. Dolus is defined as the intent to cause unlawful harm.

Culpa: Culpa, aka negligence, is like dolus an element of criminal and civil law. In the case of criminal law a degree of culpability, while in the case of civil law an element of liability. Culpa is defined as fault, as negligent behaviour and lack of prudence in a given situation that produces unlawful harm. So in contrast to dolus, a failure of heart, negligence is a failure of intellect and requires no intent whatsoever.

In the case of culpa, you are thus responsible even in the total absence of dolus for your actions, which is my essential point.

I put ignorance into quotations as you said because I didn't believe it was ignorance, but rather negligence from his side, as I later pointed out. But that is not that important, as the distinction between negligence and ignorance is floating. What is excusable ignorance, what is not?

"Then further said that it doesn't matter if it was ignorance or not, but that "the damage ... [was] ... already done." If that isn't considered malicious intent by humanity, I don't know what is - you know, doing damage to another person/culture with your attitude, especially when you said it wasn't exactly done by "ignorance" as many know it."

In the light of the definitions above, ignorance indeed doesn't matter as you can cause and are responsible "damage" even without intent. In fact, not even fault is necessary in cases of strict liability, in which neither intent nor fault is required to produce consequences, such as product liability.

So, yes, "ignorance", negligence, can be harmful without malicious intent. And that was my point.

"First, you said we can clearly judge him. I was still kind of okay with that, since, yeah, this is an international site. However, after that, you said, and I'm directly quoting you, "Less essential, a further sign for whom the site was designed in mind.""

It was evidence that Tony designed the site with what he was familiar (American settings), which is arguably true. Nothing more. Nothing less.

It was also a response to the statement the 12 hour clock is not purely American. If we add the date formatting we get a clearer picture. Many countries use a 12 hour clock. Few countries use a 12 hour clock and MM/DD/YY.

"Now, let's just read the second-to-last part that I boldened and italicized.

"Tony cannot claim ignorance"

Do you get it?"


You must read the entire sentence, then it makes sense. He cannot invoke ignorance for what is clearly a case of negligence based on his experience.

"You pretended to give multiple options. Then, you only allowed one option."

I gave a dolus and culpa option. I think the latter applies as can be deduced from my later statements, "You can understand why he did what he did and where he comes from, but that doesn't mean that it is acceptable. He might not be guilty (morally), but he is still responsible."

I know where he comes from. I know why he did what he did. I know there was no intent, but that doesn't make it acceptable. There is an issue, and issue to be solved regardless of intent or fault. Because I will admit "damage", "negligence", "intent", etc. really sounds more dramatic in this situation than it is, even if it is the correct terminology.

That is why I excluded guilt. Guilt is a moral criminal category, the responsibility for a wrongdoing. It is not a wrongdoing here. That would be too dramatic. This is more of a philosophical discourse, really, about responsibility and the causality between "ignorance" and external consequences. Anyway, Tony is still responsible. Tony is accountable. He implemented the system. It is also the reason we can make suggestions as he is aware of his position as the one in charge.

"anyhow, your request is getting implemented, so cheers to you~"

Only after arguing with half of the forum. ^^
But Tony has no responsibility to make SH into something better, which means neither has to apply.
You're in no way forced to use the site after all.

And as for the arguing: If I recall that was mainly people saying that they think its a smaller issue, and you being a prick about that.
 
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Tony

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No, it's not an American vs all thingy. There's no malicious intentions as no matter how many sites you've build or how many years you've been building them, you will always forget something or a lot of things. It's normal.

When building SH, I'm usually thinking of what I would like as an author/reader. I'm obviously not thinking of "How am I going to piss off non-Americans today....". SH took about a year to build with hundred of thousands of lines of code, I would obviously forget a ton of stuff as I'm human after all. There's also a ton of bugs.

It's fair to say you're frustrated though but calm down with the "Even though I don't know him, I know he's doing it on purpose!!!" :blobrofl:. That's just silly.

I'm a bit busy this week so I'll start working on this feature on Monday.

The option to change the time format was added. You can change your settings from https://www.scribblehub.com/account/ -> "Time Format"
 
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