Writing I'm stuck. Please discuss ideas with me.

[Suczka]

This is about VR game / LitRPG / Isekai story.
I write this on top so you can skip reading the rest if you are not interested in genre.

---

I was going to title this thread: "Writing is hard. Please help."
But I thought it might be to vague and attract wrong kind of attention.

Right now I'm trying to write my first story for this site and I run into some problems, that I did not anticipated when I started.
Biggest problems are short attention span, procrastination and overanalyzing. But with those I have to deal myself.

Second problem is that I have too many ideas at once.
And I would like your help with sorting them.

I know that I can't put every idea that I have in to one story. No MC would endure that.
Some of those ideas I am able to diagnose as not fitting to the story that I'm writing right now so I move them to different stories. The effectof that is that I have now six stories in the writing! Those extra five stories are composed only from ideas and paragraphs that I found unfitting for the primary story.

So now I'm left with the ideas that are fitting to the story.
Some of them are self contradictory.
For some I planned to ask readers in polls to decide in which direction to go. Yet I found that, I need to know that, much earlier than I assumed.

So here is idea of my story:

Spoiler: TOP SECRET! DO NOT READ! (unless you are willing to help)

Genre tags: Action Adult Adventure Fantasy Gender Bender Isekai LitRPG Romance Smut
Synopsis:
Jonathan bought a new Enhanced Immersion VR headset to play the game that will be released at midnight. Due to unforeseen circumstances he became stuck in a game. What's more he is stuck in the body of a beautiful female healer.
For some reason the game system thinks he is a Companion NPC. Quickly he discovers that it is quite a predicament as he can’t do things that are reserved for Players.

How will he get over the fact that he will have to spend a considerable amount of time in the female body?
How will he survive surrounded by monsters on the one side and Players on the other?
How will the developers react when they will discover him/her?
Will he manage to find a way back to the real world?

To find out, read this smut filled story!

Story goals:

• Survive!
  (that includes not upsetting game developers so they won't delete him from server)
• Go back to real world. (if at all possible)
• Adventure mixed with action moments. World exploration.
• Finding a way despite limitations of being an NPC in the eyes of game system.
• To not turn the story to hard fetish erotica that would get me banned. Just moderate amount of smut. Plot with porn not porn with plot.
• Not to neglect my real world duties because of writing and overthinking about writing.
  

Questions to fellow authors:

1. As it is still work in progress genre tags are not set in stone. Firstly I'm not sure if i should should include "Isekai".
   On one hand the game servers are located on our earth. On the other the Fantasy world is a new reality for MC. From his point of view he is in another world.
2. I am not sure about Romance tag. In my understanding that would require a long time romantic relationship with the same person.
   I hesitate whether I should introduce a relationship that would last more than few chapters. I firstly thought to only include short term relations. But as i started writing that seems shallow. Or maybe there can be one main romantic thread interrupted by random encounters?
3. My MC is to be an NPC and to be treated by game system as such. Of course he will have much freedom and will not be stuck in one place performing idle animation. Yet I want to explore differences in game experience between Players and NPCs. For that I want to impose some limitations on what the MC can and can't do. Firstly Quests are only for players. MC can not take quests. But to rest I'm hesitant how strict should I be:
   1. As MC is not included in any NPC script or quest line. He should not be able to interact at all in any way with any NPC. But I'm worried that this would be to restrictive and make the story boring.
   2. Than I thought that MC can later learn that as an NPC he can create quests of his own. Escort quest to get to another city. Gathering quest to get materials for better equipment and so on. That way MC by creative use of quests could coerce Players to do for him things that he is unable to do alone or because of him being an NPC. But that has problems of its own. Where from will the quest rewards come from? Should they be provided by system? Or should MC gather gold to pay Players? What about XP part of reward? Should the XP be taken from MCs pool? But won't that change "adventure story" to "grinding to afford rewards for Players story"?
   3. Should the MC be able to inject himself into other quest lines. Or should be able influence them in a way companions in BG3 can influence outcome of some conversations or other events?
   4. Should I give MC more interactions with NPCs? Should he be able to barter with vendors? What about Skill trainers to learn new abilities? Will this be too much freedom and destroy my idea of MC being limited by being NPC?
   5. What about having a light conversations with NPCs? "hello MC" "Hello mr. Blacksmith nice weather we have" "yes MC nice weather to forge some armour" ... Or should NPCs just ignore him completely?
   6. I plan for MC to be in contact with one of game developers/moderators. That person will not rescue MC but rather monitor him. Should this person use his influence so that in future updates MC can talk to NPCs to learn new skills and/or use vendors(maybe with limitations)?
4. Should MC have any contact with people he knew irl? The game company wants to keep any accident involving their software or hardware a secret to protect its interests. Having a player stuck in the game will be hidden from public. So no one he knew irl will know that he is the game. That thing I already have covered. But what about accidental meetings in the game world? Game company can't ban from playing friends and/or family of that one particular person without raising serious suspicion. But as it is MMORPG there will be hundreds of thousands or millions of players in the game. So if he meets someone is dependent on luck (that is me as the author). MC meeting someone from his previous life could result in some interesting interactions. So I see four five six seven main options here that are not exclusive (besides last two):
   1. He meets one male friend. Maybe his bro, his best friend, his childhood friend?
   2. He meets one female friend. Maybe his former love interest?
   3. He meets a group of friends playing in a party. Including his best friend, his former girlfriend, someone else…
   4. He meets hostile to him people from his former life. His rival, someone who bullied him in middle school.
   5. He meets a family member. Brother that he was close with, or brother who hated him.
   6. There may be people that he knew in the game but he never meets them.
   7. Jonathan had no friends in real life. Or none of his irl friends play the game.
5. Should MC have access to information from outside the game world? There could be a library where instead of computers would be crystal balls that he could use to browse game forums or even the whole internet. But should it even be an option? If it was an option we could observe as in the beginning he tries to stay on top of current real world events and trends to "maintain his humanity" but with time he may slowly loose interest in events of a world that he is not a part of. Than feel guilty about losing interest. Trying to catch up but realizing that it is impossible. As tempting as this would be to write about this, I'm worried that it would unnecessarily bloat the story that as it is has many threads in it. Volume of this additional content will make a slow pacing story even slower and probability of me ever finishing the story and by extension MC reaching his goal even more distant. Maybe i could write another story focusing on this angle and transhumanism ...
6. Should MCs speech be limited by game system? Should the game system block him if he ever tries to tell anyone his true identity or make reference to real world stuff? I cam imagine game developers imposing such restriction on MC but I'm worried that it could be too much. Maybe his own rational thinking would be enough to prevent him from doing that? He is aware that in eyes of Players he is just another NPC. And also that it would provoke developers to take a decisive action against him if he would scream in the centre of a town "help I'm stuck in a game!" . But going back to point 4. What about his IRL friends. Should he pretend in front of them that he is an NPC or maybe after some time he would reveal or they would discover his true identity? It would be nice for him to be able to talk with them freely.

Those are main questions I have for now.
I tried to describe everything as best as I could including my thoughts on each subject, without putting actual paragraphs from story.
If something is unclear or you have additional questions feel free to ask.

Sorry for long post.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

It sounds like you already have a bunch of ideas. What exact part are you stuck on?

If I may, the premise of this story is very likely to garner readers. It is a very tried story trope on SH, at least. If you want even more readers include both isekai and romance tag. But if you include the isekai tag make sure to also have the "virtual reality" tag. For that matter, make sure to use all 25 tags.

 

[SailusGebel]

You don't have to write six stories. Writing your ideas down is enough.

1. We have a "Virtual Reality" tag here. To decide which tag fits the most, you simply have to answer the question. Will MC eventually wake up in "real" world, or not?
2. You have to decide for yourself.
3. Depends on the game.
4. You have to decide for yourself.
5. You have to decide for yourself.
6. You have to decide for yourself.

 

[John_Owl]

alright, I'll start with 1: yes, it's an Isekai. SAO is considered Isekai, despite being a virtual world. As is .HACK//sign (Tsukasa is stuck in the game world and treated as an NPC, despite being a player IRL).
2, that's largely up to you. Romance will get a lot of readers, but you'd need to have one long term relationship. something I've seen done to good effect for both romance and smut genres would be to have 1 long will-they/won't-they relationship. this cna also include comedy/heartbreak as the main relationship has to grow from strangers to lovers, and on that journey MC could have other hook-ups. it's not NTR until the main pairing is together. I did this in my story Lay the Dragon and had mostly positive reviews of it, since my MC and his love interest weren't officially together.
3, again, these are largely up to you. I'd recommend looking at your skill level as a writer and deciding how much of a challenge you want to set for yourself. a lot of these potential scenarios aren't end-all ideas. if he can't directly interact with players, you just have to get more creative on how he can interact. if he can, that's easier on you, the writer.
4, again, largely based on your skill as a writer and how much you want to test yourself. IMO, I'd allow it as chance encounters. He'd have to convince them he's who he is without explicitly saying it for fear the game company would simply delete him. Or maybe they simply can't delete him for whatever reason, like he isn't in their code, or his code is restricted above anyone in the company.
5, entirely your call, but IMO, I'd say yes. I've played a few games where they would have a way to access a web browser. and with a little creative clicking, you could access the entire web from it.
6, if you want, you could have the game system censor anything it detects as "sensitive IRL information". he could still inform fellows he meets about who he is. maybe a long time friend plays and he shares a secret. friend goes "Only me and this guy know about it, so how could the game devs...? Oh, wait, you're HIM?!" sort of thing.

again, these are all my opinions. i'm not telling you how to write your story, just giving input on how your ideas could work and other stories with similar premise and how they handled it.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/i-need-advice.17636/#post-409341

I'd Just Copy Pasta this.

 

[oniondouble]

Short version:
I'm not a good writer but I think it would be up to your decision on how to handle each question.
Long version:

What about having a light conversations with NPCs? "hello MC" "Hello mr. Blacksmith nice weather we have" "yes MC nice weather to forge some armour" ... Or should NPCs just ignore him completely?

This is a question that most writer thought about, how do you do small talk?
Step one.
Make it interesting.
How do you spin this question to an overarching plot? Or a small side story? Or even just a random conversation? Or will you make this question a small seed or information of what's to come in the story? Or is it just a worldbuilding tool? The possibility are endless and it's part of figuring out your identity as an author.
Do you like making small but meaningful conversations? Or a side character that made comeback in the story regularly? Or you just like having npc331 be amazed at your mc action?
Step two...
There is no step two.
I lied.
In fact there is no best 'step' or 'guide'.
It will help you, but figuring things out is a part of the fun as an author (in my opinion) do keep in mind that this comes from a subjective view rather than objective, but I think it would be best if you tackle things with your own mind.
What about this cliche plot that was overdone? If you think it's fun, do it. Don't care about what other people think or their opinion of it, even though it might hurt seeing disappointed reader leaving a comment on your books but in the end, it all comes down to preferences.
As a quote once said "A good game is not a game for everyone. " (I actually don't know where this quote comes from and I don't have the strength to search it on google.)
(My message above is probably useless for those who are trying to become a professional writer.)

 

[MajorKerina]

I like this kind of idea. I love gender bending tales [over two million words of them]. There is actually an AI comic out there I saw recently with the trapped as an NPC conceit too - https://www.deviantart.com/isekaimesenpai/art/That-Time-I-Got-NPCed-TG-Title-Card-1005386855 might give you ideas for how you can have your own take on it.

Find an ending first yeah. Don't worry if you deviate from it but have an end goal.

1) Sure. It's Isekai-like. If you divert from it, just drop the tag.
2) Leave off Romance until you know.
3) Up to you depending on the mood you want.
The rest would have similar answers.

 

[Suczka]

I know that in the end I will have to make all decisions (and writing) myself.
I do not want you to make decisions for me. I want to bounce ideas and hear your opinions about mine.

It sounds like you already have a bunch of ideas. What exact part are you stuck on?

That is exactly where I'm stuck. Too many ideas.
To many options, all with something that makes them attractive and poor decision making skills :P
I already reached the 25 tag limit week ago. Now I think it may be too much for one story.

again, largely based on your skill as a writer and how much you want to test yourself.

So you suggest me to trash the idea and stop writing at all. Understood.
Being serious that is my biggest fear. I'm afraid that if I will have to ambitious goals and to many subplots I will bite more than I can chew.
But if I drop ideas to match my perceived writing level there will be not much left of the story to write about.

I'd Just Copy Pasta this.

Thanx daddy ;)
I think I understand what you want to tell me, but I do not understand this nomenclature.

You need a plot that starts then finishes in Act/Act, in order of importance:
1/3
1/1
3/3
2/2
1/2
2/3

What is Act/Act?
Why on the left side 1 is three times, 2 is two times and 3 is only once.
While on right site thate is only one 1, 2 is still two times, but 3 is three times now.

 

[SailusGebel]

I do not want you to make decisions for me. I want to bounce ideas and hear your opinions about mine.

I am not sure about Romance tag. In my understanding that would require a long time romantic relationship with the same person.
I hesitate whether I should introduce a relationship that would last more than few chapters. I firstly thought to only include short term relations. But as i started writing that seems shallow. Or maybe there can be one main romantic thread interrupted by random encounters?

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but it does not look like bouncing ideas. If you were to ask, for example, who is going to be a good partner, what archetype will fit, what type of a lover in a story is our favorite, all while providing some context, I would've answered those question. But I won't answer whether you should include a whole genre or not.

 

[John_Owl]

So you suggest me to trash the idea and stop writing at all. Understood.
Being serious that is mu biggest fear. I'm afraid that if I will have to ambitious goals and to many subplots I will bite more than I can chew.
But if I drop ideas to match my perceived writing level there will be not much left of the story to write about.

that's just it. Writing is a constant test of your skill as a writer, and it's always a trade off.

If you have more plots/restrictions/etc, its a greater test because you have more you have to remember and keep track of and get creative around. but it also adds more to the story for readers. In the end, take a week or so to plan out the bare basics. what restrictions can you impose that you, as the writer, can still find creative ways around without breaking/violating them? Whats the primary plot you want to include? Where do you want to start and where do you want it to end?

once you've figured these out, plan just the first chapter. it should take less than a day or so. all of this, you can do in your native language, as you're the only one that'll be seeing it.

Then comes the hardest part. actually writing. I've been at it off and on for 12 years and I *STILL* have a hell of a time starting a new chapter. the blankness staring back sucks and it feels like you're being mocked by the lack of words. but in the end, as a writer, that first step - placing one word after the other - is key. all the rest is optional (i barely plan). but actually putting words down, knowing someone will one day read it is terrifying, even for those of us that have done it for a long while.

You can do it. anyone can. Writing is as much a learned skill as a natural talent. the biggest problem is overwhelming yourself early on. Focus on one idea. Accept others and write them down on the side, but focus on just that one at the start. It's taken me a year to get to where I'm at (I'm currently switching between 4 different stories), and that's with 12 years prior experience before this attempt.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

From what I can understand with what you've written, you got your ideas laid out, but can't decide what, if, when and where you'll use it in your story. Well, I'm no LitRPG writer, but I'm I do write isekai. Maybe I can offer you some ways I did to filter and lay my concepts into place.

First, when I was planning my isekai OELN, I got lots of ideas, just like you. However, coming up with those did confuse me where and when I will use them. So, I went back to basics. What basics?

I planned my story this way:

I set up the theme and genre first. My theme is adventure, and my genre is isekai, hence I won't be lost once I went deep further into the story.

Then, I asked myself: What is the ultimate goal of my MC? For this one, the answer should only be one sentence. And yes, one ultimate goal. I think you already wrote it, which is 'Survive'. The fact that you wrote it first in your list of goals, means this is the 'final goal' you have in mind when you first think of your work.

Other goals you listed would go as 'secondary goals', which can be used as 'goals' for potential books, or arcs, or seasons of your work. Do take note that these goals are just 'stepping stones' to your MC's ultimate goal, which is to 'survive'.

Next, on your questions:

1). Isekai is a hot topic that often comes from the different interpretations of each writer, according to what they've read, experienced and observed. Some would say it has come out as early as the late 19th century, or--as I do believe--the current iteration of the word 'isekai' in connection to the pop literature context began sometime in mid-2000s.

Spoiler

(Someone might reply to me in essay form, contesting my claims, and adding ad hominems as well as complicated words to make him look like 'intelligent'. Well, I respect all views. I just don't respect the person behind it.)

Any case, LitRPGs often come into the isekai genre 'umbrella', even when servers are on Earth (like in SAO and Log Horizon). The idea is simply to have your MC come to another world (by any means), and it can be classified as such.

2). IMO, if you'll focus on the romance of the characters, and it has a huge impact on the flow of the story, by all means, you should include it in your tags. However, if romance between your characters are just a minor aspect of your work (like putting it there just to have your MC have cute girls in his group), you can forgo including it.

Any case, put it or not, as long as there's a sliver of it, I think you'll be fine. This is democracy is for...

3). An interesting idea, but quite overused. Try reading similar stories, note of the common tropes, and do subverts from there.
3.1). It can be solved if you read similar stories and subvert tropes. Besides, even with 'uncommon' MCs, a story can get boring if your execution is problematic. However, it's part of the development process, so don't be afraid to do rewrites.
3.2). For this, I believe you should go back to your basics. What is MC's goal again? To survive. Then, why would he be able to give XP? Maybe you can do it by making your MC give quests the moment he encounters dangers that is way too high for his level. Where's the adventure part in that? Make him able to give quests in middle of dungeon raids. Why would players have to do his quests? Coz those are high EXP quests, aside from possible rewards. (These are just samples...I mean, come on, while he's a 'sapient' NPC, he's still under the thumb of his game's developers, so they can always 'f*ck' with him. The idea is, he can't fully control the rules, but he can make the conditions for the rules.)
3.3). Up to you, whatever you find interesting. Relying on us for advice on this part would make the story 'ours' and not 'yours', thus contributing to the potential 'loss of interest' in the long run, especially if you realized you don't want to take the story towards the direction we recommended now.
3.4). One of my pet peeves about LitRPG (I'm speaking my mind here, so you can take it with a grain of salt), is that characters don't feel 'human'. Why would you make your MC avoid talking to other NPCs? Is that to show that he's 'thinking on his own'? If so, you'll destroy the fact that he's an NPC, and would keep your readers reminded that they are in-game. See, I think, what made Log Horizon interesting is that, even though the audience knew the other characters are NPCs, they still interacted with players as if they are real humans. Well, you can make your MC a 'bug'; but even NPCs in the Matrix (like Mr. Smith) can still talk normally when they are interacting with people of their level. This is AI we're talking about, so go wild with your imagination, is what I'm saying.
3.5). Try to make your NPC interactions 'normal', while also keeping the fact that these NPCs are NPCs. Good example is while they have a wide range of possible interactions and replies, there's a pattern to every reaction they have. For example (I'm aware this is satire, but I'll use it anw), Balin from Viva La Dirt League skits is an obvious NPC, but his interactions have a sliver of 'human-ness' to it, while retaining the NPC traits..."Good morning! Nice day for fishing, ain't it? Huh hah!" while throwing a fishing rod and talking to the player character.
3.6). Now we're getting at an interesting talking point. Well, it's a logical action, really. A developer/admin monitoring a 'rogue' NPC because he can get the game to crash by doing something they didn't encode. At the end, it all boils down to your goals why your MC should remain in contact with one of the admins/developers.

4). Again, this question's answer will depend on your plans. I recommend you don't answer it until you're about to 'cross the bridge'. Reason is, as you develop and write your story, you may happen to discover 'interesting' points other than what you have already planned.

5). Well, again, the question here is, why would you do that? Will it contribute greatly to his previous stated goals? If not, then you can just drop this. Not only is this quite confusing, but it won't serve any purpose.

6). This is an interesting point, but quite difficult to pull. See, if you plan your MC to be 'sapient' (he's trapped) yet his speech is limited to a few programmed lines (which is logical, given the game setting), it'll be a challenge for you as an author to let him express himself. I recommend you do this, though make him learn to become more of a 'bug' in-game as he develops his vocabulary.

Again, my thread reply may be long and tedious, but I did put my experiences as a writer there. Do keep in mind that while I've read lots of LitRPGs before, I did come to hate it (mainly because of my earlier stated reason). Hope this answer helps!

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Make it a genderbender story. Idk how it would help, but I think it'd be cool

 

[Suczka]

all of this, you can do in your native language,

to tell you the truth It has been years since I wrote something longer than five sentence email in my native language.
It has come to that that my friends are angry at me for sending backstory for my character in English, and I'm surprised that it was in English.

plan just the first chapter.

I have already 5 chapters planned.

I have an idea and that is my "Whats the primary plot you want to include?"
But what might be my problem is that I haven't really given much thought about how I want to end things.
So I will have to take stem back and think about that.

take a week or so to plan out the bare basics. what restrictions can you impose that you, as the writer, can still find creative ways around without breaking/violating them?

I was afraid to give too much time to that.
I was worried that I might spend too much time and be stuck at world building.
I already have more lore and game mechanics than actual story, and I only touched those mechanics that would have immediate influence on MC

I have First chapter written and edited. I'm in the middle of second one and Came with the realization of to many ideas.

Taking step back and having an outline plan for a whole story might be the solution I'm looking for.

 

[WaterFish]

You are over complicating the problem.

All you need to do is this:

1. Remember you are writing a story. Not a trope catalogue.

Everyone has some story they want to tell a person to convey feelings and vague ideas that can’t be easily put into words. A comedy intends to give laughter, and action gives hype.

So decide on what type of story you want to tell and use plot devices and characters as tools to express those ideas. Especially characters, since they can embody a type of thought through their actions. Whether it’s subverted or played straight.

All you have to do is remember what story you are trying to convey from your heart, and let your passion drive you from there. All these little questions will fade when you make a decision.

because indecisiveness is poison for a writer.

 

[John_Owl]

to tell you the truth It has been years since I wrote something longer than five sentence email in my native language.
It has come to that that my friends are angry at me for sending backstory for my character in English, and I'm surprised that it was in English.



I have already 5 chapters planned.

I have an idea and that is my "Whats the primary plot you want to include?"
But what might be my problem is that I haven't really given much thought about how I want to end things.
So I will have to take stem back and think about that.



I was afraid to give too much time to that.
I was worried that I might spend too much time and be stuck at world building.
I already have more lore and game mechanics than actual story, and I only touched those mechanics that would have immediate influence on MC

I have First chapter written and edited. I'm in the middle of second one and Came with the realization of to many ideas.

Taking step back and having an outline plan for a whole story might be the solution I'm looking for.

the nice part of writing a webnovel rather than a paper book is that you can adjust and exclude and include details as needed. I said a week, as when I do plan (rare as that might be), its usually passive. I kick back, put a movie on my laptop and a game on my tv. and as i'm just chilling, I let my mind run free with a specific topic.

and when I say "plan the end" I don't mean specifics. just the general idea. do you want him to get back to the real world? Maybe the game is a clone of an IRL alternate world, and his being dragged in ends up closing the gap, combining the worlds? Or maybe you decide to kill him off by having the company delete his code or something. broad strokes. the further out something is, the less detail you need to plan.

as for planning and worldbuilding, it's nice to have full details, but consider it more like painting. what you don't show can show as much as what you do. that is to say, if a detail won't become relevant to the MC (and thus, the readers), don't mention it. If it won't be relevant until MUCH later on, don't mention it yet.

 

[SailusGebel]

You are over complicating the problem.

All you need to do is this:

1. Remember you are writing a story. Not a trope catalogue.

Everyone has some story they want to tell a person to convey feelings and vague ideas that can’t be easily put into words. A comedy intends to give laughter, and action gives hype.

So decide on what type of story you want to tell and use plot devices and characters as tools to express those ideas. Especially characters, since they can embody a type of thought through their actions. Whether it’s subverted or played straight.

All you have to do is remember what story you are trying to convey from your heart, and let your passion drive you from there. All these little questions will fade when you make a decision.

because indecisiveness is poison for a writer.

Based.

 

[Sleds]

Questions to fellow authors:

1. As it is still work in progress genre tags are not set in stone. Firstly I'm not sure if i should should include "Isekai".
   On one hand the game servers are located on our earth. On the other the Fantasy world is a new reality for MC. From his point of view he is in another world.

Still doesn't count as isekai, unless you want to make that second world real somewhere in the future, but even there, using isekai tag will be a huge spoiler, so no Isekai tag here.

I am not sure about Romance tag. In my understanding that would require a long time romantic relationship with the same person.
I hesitate whether I should introduce a relationship that would last more than few chapters. I firstly thought to only include short term relations. But as i started writing that seems shallow. Or maybe there can be one main romantic thread interrupted by random encounters?

You can use romantic tag, and when there slow romance tag, use it for that. Romantic tag mean you will have some romance in your story, that would be somehow important. You can have ten partner for your mc throughout the whole story, that won't change the fact that it's a romance.

My MC is to be an NPC and to be treated by game system as such. Of course he will have much freedom and will not be stuck in one place performing idle animation. Yet I want to explore differences in game experience between Players and NPCs. For that I want to impose some limitations on what the MC can and can't do. Firstly Quests are only for players. MC can not take quests. But to rest I'm hesitant how strict should I be:

1. As MC is not included in any NPC script or quest line. He should not be able to interact at all in any way with any NPC. But I'm worried that this would be to restrictive and make the story boring.
2. Than I thought that MC can later learn that as an NPC he can create quests of his own. Escort quest to get to another city. Gathering quest to get materials for better equipment and so on. That way MC by creative use of quests could coerce Players to do for him things that he is unable to do alone or because of him being an NPC. But that has problems of its own. Where from will the quest rewards come from? Should they be provided by system? Or should MC gather gold to pay Players? What about XP part of reward? Should the XP be taken from MCs pool? But won't that change "adventure story" to "grinding to afford rewards for Players story"?
3. Should the MC be able to inject himself into other quest lines. Or should be able influence them in a way companions in BG3 can influence outcome of some conversations or other events?
4. Should I give MC more interactions with NPCs? Should he be able to barter with vendors? What about Skill trainers to learn new abilities? Will this be too much freedom and destroy my idea of MC being limited by being NPC?
5. What about having a light conversations with NPCs? "hello MC" "Hello mr. Blacksmith nice weather we have" "yes MC nice weather to forge some armour" ... Or should NPCs just ignore him completely?
6. I plan for MC to be in contact with one of game developers/moderators. That person will not rescue MC but rather monitor him. Should this person use his influence so that in future updates MC can talk to NPCs to learn new skills and/or use vendors(maybe with limitations)?

I would suggest to read "The Legendary Mechanic", MC is a professional player who was sent back ten years ago in the game he play before the the game "started". The MC become an npc with some functions only related to npc and other related to player, when the player start to come as the "server" open, the interaction with the players make him able to do lot of different thing, and by somehow controlling his appearance, he made the players love him as a npc, and come to him to take quest, or even buy item from him, even use exp to gain some ressource, granting the MC tons of exp to keep him at advantage against millions of players in term of advance for leveling. He also not restricted by the level of the version of the game, so he can pass the set limit of level.

To go with the part you said that he shouldn't anger the developpers to not get deleted, you should just said that the developpers can't change the game, and that the game is monitored by some advanced AI. Letting you have more freedom in the writing.

Should MC have any contact with people he knew irl?

Yes you should, but if you still use developpers to maintain the game, you have to write your mc be cautious and not said that he someone real, depending of the family or friend he come accros, you can have him give them some quest/item or even help them in some way, giving them reputation with him "The Npc" and letting them buy item or anything else like skills for exemple. You can have him propose quest to help them train or even do an escort quest in a dungeon to help them clear a dungeon.

Now if it's his enemies, go the other way, make him look at them and suddenly the reputation drop, the enemies will think WTF and you can even add comical line from the system written by the MC when saying why they lose reputation, stupid thing like "(Name MC), didn't like your face.", you can have him kill them with different ways, either by himself or by giving quests or by reducing the reputation they have with him, so that it be "okay" with the system to do it.

Should MC have access to information from outside the game world?

That will depend of you, it can be a good idea to let your MC have acces to the players forum but not be able to write in it. It would let him see how player perceive him and even make some plan for the futur to change his image.

That was something use in "The Legendary Mechanic" as well, and the mc used it in different way, to promote his merchandise/skills to attire player so he can get exp, to promote some big quest when he need some free hands to work, or even in a survive quest, by seeing players trying to find party for surrounding him at some position, letting him see which position he had to evade since players gather there to capture him.

Should MCs speech be limited by game system?

Depend of you again, personally, when I read Vrmmorpg, I prefer the NPCs to have real life and real interactions with players, and even have them be able to marry them if they want to (Yes, kid can be conceived too if needed). So, for me, you should let your MC speech not be limited and the same for the other NPCs.

I would take the same exemple again with "The Legendary Mechanic", here when players started to appear, the npc feared them, some tried to be gentle with them, while some evil organisation tried to capture them to disect their body to find why they can revive.

You don't have to go that far with the interaction, you can have the developpers already set the words "Immortal" for the players inside the NPCs mind and be okay with it.

That just some options you have to have more interactions between the NPCs and Players that would feel real when it come to suddenly see people who can revive every time. It's also a good idea if you want to go the way that the "game" is in real another world.

yes, it's an Isekai. SAO is considered Isekai, despite being a virtual world. As is .HACK//sign (Tsukasa is stuck in the game world and treated as an NPC, despite being a player IRL).

No, SAO is not an Isekai, same for .HACK//sign, being trapped in a vrmmorpg or a game is not considered Isekai. They are still in the same world, they using a tech to playing a game, there no isekai there.

The only reason you put an Isekai tag on a Vrmmorpg story, is to, at one point, said that the VR was all bullshit and the tech transported the players souls to another world and not just put them inside a game.

 

[Suczka]

@Hans.Trondheim Your post is to long so I could answer to every point you made.
You made lot of valid points and comments some of them already cleared my mind a little.
Like focusing on main goal and using other things as means to achieve it.
It goes with advice from @John_Owl and @TheEldritchGod about planning how to end the story.
Some of your points I will have to re read and rethink.


@Sleds from you also valid points that I will have to think about later and longer
is this one https://www.scribblehub.com/series/688320/the-legendary-mechanic-in-marvel-universe-cn/ the one you recommend to read?

if a detail won't become relevant to the MC (and thus, the readers), don't mention it.

that is my problem right now I have more world building around MC than actual story :/

You are over complicating the problem.

Yes.
That makes me good at work but terrible at "free arts" stuff.

Make it a genderbender story.

It already is.
If I gender bend it twice it will return to normal...

There is actually an AI comic

What part of it is AI?
The art? The story?
Please do not tell me that the whole comic art, framing, dialogues, story ...
came from one prompt!

 

[Sleds]

@Sleds from you also valid points that I will have to think about later and longer
is this one https://www.scribblehub.com/series/688320/the-legendary-mechanic-in-marvel-universe-cn/ the one you recommend to read?

No, this is the one:
https://ranobes.top/novels/148204-legendary-mechanic-v812312.html

 

[TheMonotonePuppet]

This is about VR game / LitRPG / Isekai story.
I write this on top so you can skip reading the rest if you are not interested in genre.

---

I was going to title this thread: "Writing is hard. Please help."
But I thought it might be to vague and attract wrong kind of attention.

Right now I'm trying to write my first story for this site and I run into some problems, that I did not anticipated when I started.
Biggest problems are short attention span, procrastination and overanalyzing. But with those I have to deal myself.

Second problem is that I have too many ideas at once.
And I would like your help with sorting them.

I know that I can't put every idea that I have in to one story. No MC would endure that.
Some of those ideas I am able to diagnose as not fitting to the story that I'm writing right now so I move them to different stories. The effectof that is that I have now six stories in the writing! Those extra five stories are composed only from ideas and paragraphs that I found unfitting for the primary story.

So now I'm left with the ideas that are fitting to the story.
Some of them are self contradictory.
For some I planned to ask readers in polls to decide in which direction to go. Yet I found that, I need to know that, much earlier than I assumed.

So here is idea of my story:

Spoiler: TOP SECRET! DO NOT READ! (unless you are willing to help)

Genre tags: Action Adult Adventure Fantasy Gender Bender Isekai LitRPG Romance Smut
Synopsis:
Jonathan bought a new Enhanced Immersion VR headset to play the game that will be released at midnight. Due to unforeseen circumstances he became stuck in a game. What's more he is stuck in the body of a beautiful female healer.
For some reason the game system thinks he is a Companion NPC. Quickly he discovers that it is quite a predicament as he can’t do things that are reserved for Players.

How will he get over the fact that he will have to spend a considerable amount of time in the female body?
How will he survive surrounded by monsters on the one side and Players on the other?
How will the developers react when they will discover him/her?
Will he manage to find a way back to the real world?

To find out, read this smut filled story!

Story goals:

• Survive!
  (that includes not upsetting game developers so they won't delete him from server)
• Go back to real world. (if at all possible)
• Adventure mixed with action moments. World exploration.
• Finding a way despite limitations of being an NPC in the eyes of game system.
• To not turn the story to hard fetish erotica that would get me banned. Just moderate amount of smut. Plot with porn not porn with plot.
• Not to neglect my real world duties because of writing and overthinking about writing.

Questions to fellow authors:

1. As it is still work in progress genre tags are not set in stone. Firstly I'm not sure if i should should include "Isekai".

I believe the exact term is transmigration. The soul and mind are transferred, but the body is different. Personally, it’s a different world. There should be VR tags too.

1. 
   On one hand the game servers are located on our earth. On the other the Fantasy world is a new reality for MC. From his point of view he is in another world.
2. I am not sure about Romance tag. In my understanding that would require a long time romantic relationship with the same person.

In my understanding, same.

1. 
   I hesitate whether I should introduce a relationship that would last more than few chapters. I firstly thought to only include short term relations. But as i started writing that seems shallow. Or maybe there can be one main romantic thread interrupted by random encounters?

For the short-term stuff, whatever floats your boat, though doing that kind of off-and-on is difficult to do well without understanding the dating scene well (P.S. I don’t understand the dating scene) For the main thread dynamic, that would be interesting, though difficult to pull off realistically without feeling like there is cheating or cucking going on.

1. My MC is to be an NPC and to be treated by game system as such. Of course he will have much freedom and will not be stuck in one place performing idle animation. Yet I want to explore differences in game experience between Players and NPCs.

That sounds fun. Personally, one of my least favorite things is when the NPC or whatever disadvantaged character ends up getting everything Players have, but better. Kinda ruins the point of a struggle. Take that viewpoint as you will!

1. For that I want to impose some limitations on what the MC can and can't do. Firstly Quests are only for players. MC can not take quests. But to rest I'm hesitant how strict should I be:
   1. As MC is not included in any NPC script or quest line. He should not be able to interact at all in any way with any NPC. But I'm worried that this would be to restrictive and make the story boring.

My method of action would be to just add horror to it. Imagine that you are constantly surrounded by unthinking, unreactive people. Think of them as part of the environment, the ambiance (and I don’t mean ignore them. One thing I see a lot of writers think is that you can set the background up and then just not bring it up or make it impact anything. What if your character is running away from a Player trying to take her head? The only way to escape is by climbing up the face of a few children NPCs who are immobile due to her not being a player, smashing them to fleshy bits in the process. It’s horrific!
But horror is not everyone’s forte or interest, so if you want a different, more helpful idea, I am available

1. 1. Than I thought that MC can later learn that as an NPC he can create quests of his own. Escort quest to get to another city. Gathering quest to get materials for better equipment and so on. That way MC by creative use of quests could coerce Players to do for him things that he is unable to do alone or because of him being an NPC. But that has problems of its own.

Sounds tricky! Hope you can learn how to manipulate people well!

1. 1. Where from will the quest rewards come from?

He was put into the body of a healer, right? What if he can only do quests that are very directly healer-related? Would that work?

1. 1. Should they be provided by system?

I think, with a few restrictions so his power is not unlimited like that healer restriction, it would be funnier if he made his own quirky quests. You could add comedy through that. And if there are restrictions to how he can talk in quests (like what if it had to be in medieval brogue or something? Hilarious!) all the better! The restriction to how he can talk could be why he was unable to create quests. The system could just be rejecting all of his applications for quests until some event happens and he role plays in the quest making in a moment of desperation as his character to be saved.

1. 1. Or should MC gather gold to pay Players?

Eh. Depends on how good you are in portraying the financial system. I have yet to see people make gold a valid thing for the main character to struggle with. It is always “Oh it’s so hard.” Then something happens and gold never becomes a problem again.
Just a caution warning.

1. 1. 
      What about XP part of reward? Should the XP be taken from MCs pool? But won't that change "adventure story" to "grinding to afford rewards for Players story"?

The grind could put people off. It often leads to time skips which render the struggle of getting XP moot and uninteresting…
However!
If you play your cards right, this could be interesting!
Because! You know how XP gets harder to gain as you go up levels? The levels require more XP and you need to fight greater creatures or do more worthy tasks to get the same amount of XP. What if it’s worse for NPCs? What if it gets harder for NPCs to gain XP by earning XP, instead of by level? At first, NPCs could level faster than players, but unless they spend XP for quests, then they won’t be able to do what gets them the most XP. It would make every quest a gamble for the MC. If the XP and 1-use items sacrificed for the quest is more than the XP and benefits gained by the quest, then the main character will have to throw themselves into absolute horrific danger to recover those costs, or they will end up stuck at a low level for eternity (which means game over and deletion most likely).

1. 1. Should the MC be able to inject himself into other quest lines. Or should be able influence them in a way companions in BG3 can influence outcome of some conversations or other events?

Maybe once he makes himself into an NPC of importance? NPCs could have evolution stages, like how Dungeon monsters have minion, then basic, then special, then boss, and all of those nitty gritty info I don’t know because I don’t play the game. At first, I thought maybe Raid Boss or something, but he is a healer. I’m sure you could come up with an original classification system. It could be a reward for his class. If he is not really good at what he does, he won’t move on from Nonrelevant Minor Side Prop to Relevant Minor Side Prop.
I like to make my MC struggle so they can earn their success, so I would make it really hard for the MC to climb up the ranks.

1. 1. Should I give MC more interactions with NPCs? Should he be able to barter with vendors?

Dunno.

1. 1. What about Skill trainers to learn new abilities? Will this be too much freedom and destroy my idea of MC being limited by being NPC?

I think it would definitely destroy the idea of the MC being limited.
Maybe he could provide a unique experience later on for Players, allowing them to see what it is like to teach others Skills. They could be his skill trainers for a quest: Teach the dumb healer a healing skill or a skill related to healing (like Cauterize would work, but not Fireball) that they don’t know because they are an uneducated country bumpkin. It would be one of those mini games, and if he doesn’t make it interesting, Players won’t be back even for XP.
Just an idea and my personal view!

1. 1. What about having a light conversations with NPCs? "hello MC" "Hello mr. Blacksmith nice weather we have" "yes MC nice weather to forge some armour" ... Or should NPCs just ignore him completely?

It would be funny if it was like “Cast Away”. He talks to them because he is alone, isolated, and bored out of his mind,

1. 1. I plan for MC to be in contact with one of game developers/moderators. That person will not rescue MC but rather monitor him. Should this person use his influence so that in future updates MC can talk to NPCs to learn new skills and/or use vendors(maybe with limitations)?

Sounds pretty malicious of that developer. I approve!

• Should MC have any contact with people he knew irl? The game company wants to keep any accident involving their software or hardware a secret to protect its interests. Having a player stuck in the game will be hidden from public. So no one he knew irl will know that he is the game. That thing I already have covered. But what about accidental meetings in the game world? Game company can't ban from playing friends and/or family of that one particular person without raising serious suspicion. But as it is MMORPG there will be hundreds of thousands or millions of players in the game. So if he meets someone is dependent on luck (that is me as the author). MC meeting someone from his previous life could result in some interesting interactions. So I see four five six seven main options here that are not exclusive (besides last two):
  1. He meets one male friend. Maybe his bro, his best friend, his childhood friend?

Best friend and childhood friend is overdone. Brother would be nice.

• 1. He meets one female friend.

Not bad.

• 1. Maybe his former love interest?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

• 1. He meets a group of friends playing in a party. Including his best friend, his former girlfriend, someone else…

So. Tropey.
I’m dying here.

• 1. He meets hostile to him people from his former life. His rival, someone who bullied him in middle school.

… I can tell just from this sentence that the rival will be characterized as a human being even less than the former love interest will.

• 1. He meets a family member. Brother that he was close with, or brother who hated him.

A genuine close family interest would be nice but…
Why a brother?
Why not a mom or an older sister? Wouldn’t it make a million times more sense to have an individual of the female gender who can help the main character work adapt to his life as a woman? I can bet solid money that he doesn’t know what kind of clothes he needs, how periods work and how to deal with them, how to adapt with just living in female-dominated spaces when he doesn’t believe he belongs in female bathrooms or interact with primarily female friend groups, how to talk with guys, etc. I could go on and on. Any real-life dude will need some major help from someone who they are really close to and NOT a guy.
But it’s your prerogative on how much effort you actually want to put in.

• 1. There may be people that he knew in the game but he never meets them.

Meh. Your choice obviously though.

• 1. Jonathan had no friends in real life. Or none of his irl friends play the game.

Meh. Kinda incriminating his personality there. Your choice obviously though.

• Should MC have access to information from outside the game world? There could be a library where instead of computers would be crystal balls that he could use to browse game forums or even the whole internet. But should it even be an option? If it was an option we could observe as in the beginning he tries to stay on top of current real world events and trends to "maintain his humanity" but with time he may slowly loose interest in events of a world that he is not a part of. Than feel guilty about losing interest. Trying to catch up but realizing that it is impossible. As tempting as this would be to write about this, I'm worried that it would unnecessarily bloat the story that as it is has many threads in it. Volume of this additional content will make a slow pacing story even slower and probability of me ever finishing the story and by extension MC reaching his goal even more distant. Maybe i could write another story focusing on this angle and transhumanism ...

Not my forte to give information on thos

• Should MCs speech be limited by game system? Should the game system block him if he ever tries to tell anyone his true identity or make reference to real world stuff? I can imagine game developers imposing such restriction on MC but I'm worried that it could be too much. Maybe his own rational thinking would be enough to prevent him from doing that? He is aware that in eyes of Players he is just another NPC. And also that it would provoke developers to take a decisive action against him if he would scream in the centre of a town "help I'm stuck in a game!" . But going back to point 4. What about his IRL friends. Should he pretend in front of them that he is an NPC or maybe after some time he would reveal or they would discover his true identity? It would be nice for him to be able to talk with them freely.

You will be able to figure this out as you go along.

Those are main questions I have for now.
I tried to describe everything as best as I could including my thoughts on each subject, without putting actual paragraphs from story.
If something is unclear or you have additional questions feel free to ask.

Sorry for long post.

Hope my long post helps lol.