swear words in historical novel?

[Ahrihn]

Hello hello.
I'm currently writing a Xianxia, and I'm wondering if the following curse words would break immersion in a traditional historical chinese setting:

• Fuck
• Shit
• Bullshit
• Idiot
• Twat

For now, I've left all of them but changed 'fuck' to the untranslated ‘他妈的’ . Do you guys think having untranslated Chinese hanzi (I'm intending to keep it only in short, quick bursts, not like whole sentences) is a good idea?
E.g.,

Ming Lühai spat, [他妈的。]
Ming Lühai blurted, ‘他妈的 —’

So, is this a yay or a nay?

 

[Zinless]

I would also add to this question.

In a world where the concept of heaven or hell doesn't exist, will saying stuff like "What the hell?!" "Good heavens!" be immersion breaking?

 

[Bobple]

Depends.

For me, I don't see it as an issue, but it is perfectly valid if you do. I don't think keeping the words in untranslated Chinese hanzi is the correct option, even if you add notes it will still just add extra unnecessary confusion.

Out of those words: Fuck and idiot seem like easy ones to keep. Honestly, saying things like 'damn it', 'Crap', and the like should be fine.

You can also make up your own swear words for the setting if you feel uncomfortable using current swears. Just saying "Damn you to hell", "Demon", "Emperor almighty", "My/On ancestor's X" all could work if they fit your setting.

 

[Hard_Persimmon]

twat is a definite no go, I don't see a problem with the rest though.

 

[2wordsperminute]

Maybe having pinyin would be better than hanzi, being able to at least know what it sounds like is nice.

 

[miyoga]

Hello hello.
I'm currently writing a Xianxia, and I'm wondering if the following curse words would break immersion in a traditional historical chinese setting:

• Fuck
• Shit
• Bullshit
• Idiot
• Twat

For now, I've left all of them but changed 'fuck' to the untranslated ‘他妈的’ . Do you guys think having untranslated Chinese hanzi (I'm intending to keep it only in short, quick bursts, not like whole sentences) is a good idea?
E.g.,

Ming Lühai spat, [他妈的。]
Ming Lühai blurted, ‘他妈的 —’

So, is this a yay or a nay?

I would say to use "kao" (靠）if you don't want to translate fuck. Chinese has a lot of interesting swears in it, to be sure, but the "ta/ni ma de" is a bit meh as TMD isn't said as much and NMD is more like you really can't stand the person in front of you. More importantly, does the language used for things like this really matter? I'd be more concerned with interactions between people than what a person says to swear. Swears can actually cross language barriers fairly easily as they're some of the first things anyone wants to learn and actually learns to use them properly.

Maybe having pinyin would be better than hanzi, being able to at least know what it sounds like is nice.

The problem with using pinyin is which system do you choose? There's the standard version which I used in my reply (minus tone marks) and there's Wade-Giles pinyin. The latter might be easier for non-speakers to use as a pronunciation guide (seriously, consider what the letter "x" sounds like in English and then think about how it's an "hs-" sound in Chinese), but the spellings of everything may be completely different than what you'd be expecting.
The other option I presented above is to simply replace it with a word that required very little work to understand. I mean, "kao" means "fuck" but is pronounced "cow". If readers mess that up...

 

[Deleted member 133647]

Depends.

For me, I don't see it as an issue, but it is perfectly valid if you do. I don't think keeping the words in untranslated Chinese hanzi is the correct option, even if you add notes it will still just add extra unnecessary confusion.

Out of those words: Fuck and idiot seem like easy ones to keep. Honestly, saying things like 'damn it', 'Crap', and the like should be fine.

You can also make up your own swear words for the setting if you feel uncomfortable using current swears. Just saying "Damn you to hell", "Demon", "Emperor almighty", "My/On ancestor's X" all could work if they fit your setting.

when has idiot been a curse word????

 

[Sleds]

Hello hello.
I'm currently writing a Xianxia, and I'm wondering if the following curse words would break immersion in a traditional historical chinese setting:

• Fuck
• Shit
• Bullshit
• Idiot
• Twat

For now, I've left all of them but changed 'fuck' to the untranslated ‘他妈的’ . Do you guys think having untranslated Chinese hanzi (I'm intending to keep it only in short, quick bursts, not like whole sentences) is a good idea?
E.g.,

Ming Lühai spat, [他妈的。]
Ming Lühai blurted, ‘他妈的 —’

So, is this a yay or a nay?

Don't write the swearing in Chinese. Most of your readers will complain about the names being complicated to remember. Don't add fuel to it with that, it's unnecessary.

From your list, I would just remove Twat, the other are common, and there a lot more you can use. You can insult their "face" since in chinese it's an expression for insulting someone reputation/dignity.

Generally insulting their honor or their great clan/ancestor can do the thing, you can curse all their generation at once.

 

[RepresentingEnvy]

In a world where the concept of heaven or hell doesn't exist, will saying stuff like "What the hell?!" "Good heavens!" be immersion breaking?

The short answer is yes. A saying like "by the void" would make more sense if you have something equivalent to a void.

 

[Sleds]

I would also add to this question.

In a world where the concept of heaven or hell doesn't exist, will saying stuff like "What the hell?!" "Good heavens!" be immersion breaking?

It depend on the story, but generally there the heaven law in every xianxia story. For hell, it depend, some have it, other don't, while in some there a similar thing with fiends/demon in it.

 

[Sylver]

I'd say have fun with it, but try to keep some consistency with the time and setting. My story is based in Medieval times but I purposely chose not to write in old English, I gave it a shot but it felt like more trouble than it was worth.

One example I have is that in my work, people worship different gods and different religions. People don't say oh my God, instead they say by the gods or what in the name of the gods. It's a small detail but I like it

 

[Bobple]

when has idiot been a curse word????

The magic of language is anything can be a curse word when said with enough umph . Plus it is used frequently as an insult.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Twat is a nope. Maybe replace bullshit with whatever other animal is prevalently used if your setting has no cows or bulls, if you want to go the whole way.

But never leave stuff untranslated just because. Chinese names are stupid enough to remember as is, you don't want to overwork your feeble-brained readers by having them think Is this a name or a curse word???

 

[miyoga]

Twat is a nope. Maybe replace bullshit with whatever other animal is prevalently used if your setting has no cows or bulls, if you want to go the whole way.

But never leave stuff untranslated just because. Chinese names are stupid enough to remember as is, you don't want to overwork your feeble-brained readers by having them think Is this a name or a curse word???

Dogs are actually considered to be a very lowly animal. So something like "dog's blood" or saying "you're not even good enough to serve my dog" or something along those lines is one of the biggest insults you can give after @Sleds mentioned the thing about everyone trying to "save face" and being afraid of "losing face".

 

[Mortrexo]

Here are a list of a few idioms you might want to use in a cultivation setting.

1. 掩耳盗铃 (yǎn ěr dào líng): Literally translates to "covering one's ears while stealing a bell." It describes someone who tries to deceive themselves or others despite obvious facts, akin to mocking someone's intelligence or awareness.
2. 口不对心 (kǒu bù duì xīn): Translates to "mouth not matching the heart." It refers to someone who speaks insincerely or hypocritically, mocking their lack of genuine feelings or intentions.
3. 笑里藏刀 (xiào lǐ cáng dāo): Literally means "smiling with a hidden knife." It describes someone who is being deceitful or treacherous while appearing friendly or harmless, akin to mocking someone's false friendliness.
4. 狗拿耗子多管闲事 (gǒu ná hào zi duō guǎn xián shì): Translates to "dogs catching mice meddle in too many affairs." It describes someone who interferes in matters that don't concern them, often with negative or mocking connotations.
5. 坐井观天 (zuò jǐng guān tiān): Literally means "sitting in a well, watching the sky." It refers to someone who has a narrow or limited perspective, akin to mocking someone's ignorance or lack of understanding.
6. 狗眼看人低 (gǒu yǎn kàn rén dī): Translates to "a dog looks down on people." It describes someone who is arrogant or condescending.
7. 拿人手短 (ná rén shǒu duǎn): Literally means "to hold someone's shortcoming." It refers to exploiting someone's weaknesses or vulnerabilities.
8. 无风不起浪 (wú fēng bù qǐ làng): Translates to "no wind, no waves." It's used to imply that rumors or suspicions must have some basis in truth.
9. 如狼似虎 (rú láng sì hǔ): Means "like a wolf and tiger." It describes someone who is fierce or aggressive.
10. 眉开眼笑 (méi kāi yǎn xiào): Literally translates to "brows open, eyes smiling." It describes someone who is beaming with joy or satisfaction.
11. 说曹操，曹操到 (shuō Cáo Cāo, Cáo Cāo dào): This phrase means "speak of Cao Cao, and Cao Cao arrives." It refers to the idea that talking about something may cause it to happen or draw attention to it.
12. 十拿九稳 (shí ná jiǔ wěn): Translates to "ten grabs, nine steady." It describes a situation or plan that is almost certain to succeed.
13. 狗屁不通 (gǒu pì bù tōng): Literally translates to "dog fart makes no sense." It's used to describe something as nonsensical or absurd.
14. 吃了熊心豹子胆 (chī le xióng xīn bào zi dǎn): Translates to "eaten bear's heart and leopard's gall." It means someone is exceptionally brave or daring.
15. 气死我了 (qì sǐ wǒ le): This phrase means "you're making me so angry that I could die." It's a common expression of frustration.
16. 跳梁小丑 (tiào liáng xiǎo chǒu): Translates to "leaping clown." It refers to someone who is behaving foolishly or clownishly.
17. 有眼无珠 (yǒu yǎn wú zhū): Literally means "has eyes but no pearls." It's used to describe someone who is oblivious or ignorant.
18. 天怒人怨 (tiān nù rén yuàn): Translates to "heaven's wrath, people's resentment." It's used to describe a situation where both nature and people are angry or upset

I hope it helps your character sound like a cultivator. :3

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Winnie the Pooth

Very powerful swear that will instantly get any wuxia story nuked off the internet