The relationship between class (job), skill and stats.

[NotaNuffian]

This is me using everyone who bothered to read and reply this post for some answers, thank you for reading if you do first and foremost. Last year I came up with a litrpg idea but dropped it after thinking that it will either be too complex and ass-shoving like Randidly or too watered and wasted potential as I gloss over everything.

So without much more banter, the topic is about the synergy between class, skill and stats.

For simplicity sake, the class in this case, be it DPS, Tank, Healer, Magic and Support (and etc maybe) is the main class unchangeable with a EVOLVABLE job like swordsman, mage, blacksmith or bard.

The skill here refers to what the person can learn, be it from a book, tutor or system granted and it is in theory that a person can get every skill, ignoring the time and penalty.

The stats here refers to Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma, I had taken this from the wikipage so feel free to however infer it you like.

I came up with the relationship below but I understand that it is still lacking, please feel free to critique. I believe in the past I tried to keep it as vague as possible in which who comes first, the class, skill or stats, so lets not do that and take an example and choose a class first.

• Class gives you Skill and Stat with each level up while Skill and Stat affects the future class route
• Skill dictates what Class you get and the Stat you will grind, Class will give you the future Skill while Stat will open up to better Skill
• Stat will unlock the requirement for certain Class and Skill while Class give you Stat every level up and Skill makes you grind the Stat as you level up the Skill

Tldr: how to draw a relation triangle with class, skill and stats.

 

[SailusGebel]

I'm too stupid to understand what you want.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Very well... I shall give you a visualization using my super awesome top secret software for authoring... MS Paint!

 

[TotallyHuman]

Very well... I shall give you a visualization using my super awesome top secret software for authoring... MS Paint!
View attachment 9123

Not the secret weapon! It's... It's too powerful.

 

[Closeranemone48]

You could also have skills unlock certain stats, like the skill [leader] unlocks charisma or how [performer] unlocks charm. You could also add stats for classes like luck for a {professional gambler} or creativity for an {inventer}

 

[NotaNuffian]

I'm too stupid to understand what you want.

Well don't worry. Neither did I.

Very well... I shall give you a visualization using my super awesome top secret software for authoring... MS Paint!
View attachment 9123

After this simple diagram, I can think of one thing.

Wtf was I smoking when I came up with the relation?

Not-a-funny-joke aside, I think I understand some bit on the thought process. This one though have to start with stats.

For example, if a person is born with a high strength stat, he or she might be more invested in building up what they are good at and thus the system might provide them with classes (job) that require high strength stat, in which the skills come into the picture as well.

I got confused when I see them as separate things when the trinity comes in a package, one to roll the ball while the other two keep the ball rolling harder.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Well don't worry. Neither did I.

After this simple diagram, I can think of one thing.

Wtf was I smoking when I came up with the relation?

Not-a-funny-joke aside, I think I understand some bit on the thought process. This one though have to start with stats.

For example, if a person is born with a high strength stat, he or she might be more invested in building up what they are good at and thus the system might provide them with classes (job) that require high strength stat, in which the skills come into the picture as well.

I got confused when I see them as separate things when the trinity comes in a package, one to roll the ball while the other two keep the ball rolling harder.

Idk, but give me some of whatever you were smoking.
I don't think you have to reinvent the wheel for this, the beauty of the LitRPG genre(at least for me) is in its simplicity, unless you want to make a rational fiction involving a litRPG, then it could get a little complicated.
Classes can require certain conditions such as stats or skills to 'unlock', and maybe even a couple achievements. As more get discovered, humans/intelligent races write it down somewhere so they know the req. Someone with a really wonky 'build' could discover an entirely unique class like drug dealer or flying spaghetti monster.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Idk, but give me some of whatever you were smoking.
I don't think you have to reinvent the wheel for this, the beauty of the LitRPG genre(at least for me) is in its simplicity, unless you want to make a rational fiction involving a litRPG, then it could get a little complicated.
Classes can require certain conditions such as stats or skills to 'unlock', and maybe even a couple achievements. As more get discovered, humans/intelligent races write it down somewhere so they know the req. Someone with a really wonky 'build' could discover an entirely unique class like drug dealer or flying spaghetti monster.

Well, there are always some fun to take apart a used trope and try to fuck around and find out, so as to see how much I can milk the damn thing out for munchkins.

Though to be honest, for someone like myself lacking in smarts and patience, this types of "tearing into the assembly and redesigning the tool" is a headache inducing chore.

 

[Aoibh]

Very well... I shall give you a visualization using my super awesome top secret software for authoring... MS Paint!
View attachment 9123

Brilliant.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

This is me using everyone who bothered to read and reply this post for some answers, thank you for reading if you do first and foremost. Last year I came up with a litrpg idea but dropped it after thinking that it will either be too complex and ass-shoving like Randidly or too watered and wasted potential as I gloss over everything.

So without much more banter, the topic is about the synergy between class, skill and stats.

For simplicity sake, the class in this case, be it DPS, Tank, Healer, Magic and Support (and etc maybe) is the main class unchangeable with a EVOLVABLE job like swordsman, mage, blacksmith or bard.

The skill here refers to what the person can learn, be it from a book, tutor or system granted and it is in theory that a person can get every skill, ignoring the time and penalty.

The stats here refers to Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma, I had taken this from the wikipage so feel free to however infer it you like.

I came up with the relationship below but I understand that it is still lacking, please feel free to critique. I believe in the past I tried to keep it as vague as possible in which who comes first, the class, skill or stats, so lets not do that and take an example and choose a class first.

• Class gives you Skill and Stat with each level up while Skill and Stat affects the future class route
• Skill dictates what Class you get and the Stat you will grind, Class will give you the future Skill while Stat will open up to better Skill
• Stat will unlock the requirement for certain Class and Skill while Class give you Stat every level up and Skill makes you grind the Stat as you level up the Skill

Tldr: how to draw a relation triangle with class, skill and stats.

base stats would decide class. Class decides your skills. Skills can add to your stats after continued use. Level up give neutral points you can add to any stat, unlike skills which would automatically increase only the stats that they use.

But that's all the usual vanilla shit.

I say just use the mastery system. Stats matter, but there are no classes. Skill? Unlock them on your own through repeated actions. Like swinging a sword 10k times. Things like that. Those would unlock endurance type of skills. Or active skills, like a downward slash. Getsuga Tensho type stuff.

But otherwise? You gotta make your own skills, and grind until you get a usable technique created and it generates a skill for you.

 

[Silver_Sky]

First my impression is that tre diagram.... completely ruins the story it's way to complicated and restraining it should only go 1 way in influence not all ways at the same time.
2 the base classes need to be more general and not DPS or whatever in needs to a bit more concrete in idea, are the classes given at birth or do you pray at the church, given at coming of age? Also maybe give a choice latter in life or whatever fits your job or what you do?
Lastly I like to play 2 "roles" in games a paladin or assassin like. In that case maybe introduce fused classes like base healer and base shielder to create a holy knight class to "promote" evolve into a paladin?
For a novel to work you need choice and layout as well as interest. If everyone knows where your going it's already dead unless your a godly writer.

Of course this is my opinion, and this IS the internet.

 

[GreenHexagon]

base stats would decide class. Class decides your skills. Skills can add to your stats after continued use. Level up give neutral points you can add to any stat, unlike skills which would automatically increase only the stats that they use.

But that's all the usual vanilla shit.

I say just use the mastery system. Stats matter, but there are no classes. Skill? Unlock them on your own through repeated actions. Like swinging a sword 10k times. Things like that. Those would unlock endurance type of skills. Or active skills, like a downward slash. Getsuga Tensho type stuff.

But otherwise? You gotta make your own skills, and grind until you get a usable technique created and it generates a skill for you.

This is usually what i use.

Stats make skills easier to get or be created, skills increase stats and 'skill', classes are informal and don't really matter to the system

 

[CupcakeNinja]

This is usually what i use.

Stats make skills easier to get or be created, skills increase stats and 'skill', classes are informal and don't really matter to the system

Exactly, and and classes are so limiting anyway. That's not realistic. You can train for basically anything in real life. In litrpg atories, the game is supposed to be ultra realistic. But you gotta limit yourself to classes and only be able to use certain skills? Smells like bullshit to me, dude.

Its gotta be a grind to unlock new skills and gain stats, but that's it. Put in the work, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The only "class" I would employ is what you as the player plan to create.. Any Dark Souls player worth his salt is gonna know exactly what I mean by that.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Exactly, and and classes are so limiting anyway. That's not realistic. You can train for basically anything in real life. In litrpg atories, the game is supposed to be ultra realistic. But you gotta limit yourself to classes and only be able to use certain skills? Smells like bullshit to me, dude.

Its gotta be a grind to unlock new skills and gain stats, but that's it. Put in the work, enjoy the fruits of your labor.

The only "class" I would employ is what you as the player plan to create.. Any Dark Souls player worth his salt is gonna know exactly what I mean by that.

Taking from Randidly, the titular MC is the only oddball without a class (initially). Due to him having way too many different skills that don't match to one archetype, he created his own four in one.

The only reason I can think of why classes exist is because of RPG. At first it is just there to tell people that with their skills and stats, they are X. Overtime however, it turns itself from simple names to becoming a limiting factor and a criteria.

While I think that classes are dumb, roles has already mainly been pinned on people in life. In my IRL case, in my wushu class I was told that I can only wield sabers (the big ones used by executors, not the cool ones used by bandits and soldiers) and cudgel and not swords because I am too chunky. In a situation where your physical state is reflected into RL, stout tall dudes will probably get assigned as tanks and lithe people DPS. I think that the class are predetermined in this case.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Taking from Randidly, the titular MC is the only oddball without a class (initially). Due to him having way too many different skills that don't match to one archetype, he created his own four in one.

The only reason I can think of why classes exist is because of RPG. At first it is just there to tell people that with their skills and stats, they are X. Overtime however, it turns itself from simple names to becoming a limiting factor and a criteria.

While I think that classes are dumb, roles has already mainly been pinned on people in life. In my IRL case, in my wushu class I was told that I can only wield sabers (the big ones used by executors, not the cool ones used by bandits and soldiers) and cudgel and not swords because I am too chunky. In a situation where your physical state is reflected into RL, stout tall dudes will probably get assigned as tanks and lithe people DPS. I think that the class are predetermined in this case.

Yeah but the thing is, our body type being predisposed to certain weapons and tools doesnt necessarily mean we cant use them. But I do get your point. Some people are just suited to certain roles more than others, I wont argue that.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Yeah but the thing is, our body type being predisposed to certain weapons and tools doesnt necessarily mean we cant use them. But I do get your point. Some people are just suited to certain roles more than others, I wont argue that.

You know, I was hoping a continuation of shits like with the power of hardwork bla bla bla and that leads to some protagonistic development with golden fingers and out of the realms BS.

In the gaming world, classes are implemented to balance the game for all to play especially more so on MMOs. Whales exist because the game companies need/ want money and nothing beats a fat wad of cash... which is kind of true in most novels. You need money for drugs, weapons, a not so shitty instructor etc.

Derailing too much over here, class is a limiter because normies have limits. To hell, if someone can have the end cap stats as well as all maxed out skills in the world, the class God* is for them.

*God is also human, but because they accomplish the impossible, that's why they are a god.

I have a love/hate with the concept of class right now, love because for losers, they have a chance to get a cool class (JP isekai) or for those with no plans in life, a class is like a fixed career path to follow. Hate because it represents the rigid social hierarchy in life and for those who got a shitty roll, their lives are fucked. It also constrains those who wish to be a munchkin and have it all by capping them in bondage.

 

[Armored99]

Not everything needs to linked.

The more you make a system where so many aspects are strongly tied together the harder it will be to create variance within it.

Making a character that isn't the stereotypical type of person for their profession will become harder.

Example: assassin that tricks/convinces target to kill themselves instead of just sneaking into the persons bedchamber to kill them.