Thoughts on "unwanted" feedback

[beast_regards]

I think RR gets a bad rep sometimes because they take less action than others. I've gotten reviews that were unfair removed by the RR team. It's the biggest free site for a reason, and as an amateur writer, its the first step to understanding a larger audience and attempting to become pro.

I enjoy scribblehub forums more and rarely venture onto RR forums, but posting on RR is like working at your local restaurant, and posting on SH is like cooking dinner for your friends twice a week. If you make something particularly bad, your friends will say something. If you cook trash as a restaurant cook you'll get called out constantly.

If you want to cook at a well known restaurant, best to hone your skills locally first.

I am not entirely sure if it is still a case, but don't people get paid for cooking at the restaurant?

 

[Tyranomaster]

I am not entirely sure if it is still a case, but don't people get paid for cooking at the restaurant?

Yes, and I get money from patreon, and the majority of my patrons come from RR.

 

[beast_regards]

Yes, and I get money from patreon, and the majority of my patrons come from RR.

I don't. I only created Ko-fi account to gather the donation so I could pay the exorbitantly high fees for the Royal Road advertisement necessary to compensate for the attrition caused by the constant harassment from freshly made mysterious review accounts they refused to do anything about, and blatantly ignored every ticket I sent about them. Then they threatened to delete my story after their wilful change in content policy the Google demanded. I perfectly understand that they might not want my story on their site, it is their site. It is up to them what they allow. I however, don't agree with the prohibitive system that demanded me to jump through the hoops like seal in the zoo with review swaps, then be punished for said review swaps, then being requested to pay extortion fees for hobby level writing so they could even display it, and then deleting it anyway.

I don't claim my story is a masterpiece - in fact; it is not, English is not my first language even, and it does need proofreads from people whose first language actually is English to be even serviceable - but it is unfair to harass the story written in free time, proofread in the free time of another person. Yes, I am on Internet and this means the risk of receiving the standard jerk treatment, but it is at very least unfair towards the people who proofread my story for free in their free time, also for free. It was unfair towards the people who did wanted to help me, too.

There were a lot of people who appreciated the work in the Royal Road, and I am grateful for all the support they gave me.

But the experience with the site ended up negative in the end.

I regret my interactions with Royal Road.

I was a bad seal for jumping through their flaming hoops in the zoo of the Royal Road.

It would be better if they rejected it from the start if they were so hell bent on "quality"

 

[Tyranomaster]

I don't. I only created Ko-fi account to gather the donation so I could pay the exorbitantly high fees for the Royal Road advertisement necessary to compensate for the attrition caused by the constant harassment from freshly made mysterious review accounts they refused to do anything about, and blatantly ignored every ticket I sent about them. Then they threatened to delete my story after their wilful change in content policy the Google demanded. I perfectly understand that they might not want my story on their site, it is their site. It is up to them what they allow. I however, don't agree with the prohibitive system that demanded me to jump through the hoops like seal in the zoo with review swaps, then be punished for said review swaps, then being requested to pay extortion fees for hobby level writing so they could even display it, and then deleting it anyway.

I don't claim my story is a masterpiece - in fact; it is not, English is not my first language even, and it does need proofreads from people whose first language actually is English to be even serviceable - but it is unfair to harass the story written in free time, proofread in the free time of another person. Yes, I am on Internet and this means the risk of receiving the standard jerk treatment, but it is at very least unfair towards the people who proofread my story for free in their free time, also for free. It was unfair towards the people who did wanted to help me, too.

There were a lot of people who appreciated the work in the Royal Road, and I am grateful for all the support they gave me.

But the experience with the site ended up negative in the end.

I regret my interactions with Royal Road.

I was a bad seal for jumping through their flaming hoops in the zoo of the Royal Road.

It would be better if they rejected it from the start if they were so hell bent on "quality"

I'd like to dispel some myths about what you've said here, in case other people who are considering using RR may be discouraged. Note, this can happen to people, and I'm not saying that what you've done is necessarily wrong, just that this isn't the only experience that can happen on RR.

1. I disagree with the 'Jump through hoops like a seal' statement. I've only done a single 'review swap' and it was optional. One of my readers left a review, and asked if I'd be interested in reading their story and leaving a review. I gave it a look, found it interesting, and left a review. I never went to the forums seeking them out, and as of right now, that's the only review I've written on RR.

2. Advertising is something that people mess up a lot on RR. I've seen it multiple times. I've run 2 ad campaigns now, and both resulted in a net income boost on my Patreon. People think advertising is just about getting eyes on your story. If those eyes are people who wouldn't want to read your story, then you'll get swamped with negative reviews. Both my ad campaigns were targeted at individuals who would enjoy reading my story, and even then I've taken a very small hit to my overall rating thanks to them. They're a double edged sword. I also only started running them when I was confident that my story was high enough quality to support running an ad campaign. Too many people put the cart before the horse on this and end up just burning money.

3. They do have different standards than Scribblehub and certain content isn't allowed (and it has become more restrictive since they put their app up on the google play store). This is what it is.

 

[prognastat]

I don't have an issue if someone points out any spelling errors so I can fix them. Free proofreaders? Yes, please. Constructive feedback that can help me improve is also welcome, I can't write for shit after all. That doesn't mean that I will change anything, but it always helps to get another perspective.

However, if someone just comes along and complains that the story didn't happen the way they imagined then they can just sod off. They obviously have a keyboard since they put in the effort to complain, so they can just write their own story the way they want. Just ignore it and relish the fact that you now live rent-free in their head.

Oh I totally do the latter at times as a reader. If a character does something completely out of character with no set up to explain said out of character behaviour or if a scene makes no sense or harms the narrative the story has been telling up to that point I will totally point it out. I try to be as constructive as I can explaining why it doesn't work when I do, but I'm sure there are more than a few writers that don't like me doing it.

I do try to keep my bias out of it as much as possible so I don't just complain because I personally don't like something and if it's something in the tags then complaining about it is stupid because that's like buying stracciatella and complaining when you find chocolate shavings in it.

 

[beast_regards]

I'd like to dispel some myths about what you've said here, in case other people who are considering using RR may be discouraged. Note, this can happen to people, and I'm not saying that what you've done is necessarily wrong, just that this isn't the only experience that can happen on RR.

1. I disagree with the 'Jump through hoops like a seal' statement. I've only done a single 'review swap' and it was optional. One of my readers left a review, and asked if I'd be interested in reading their story and leaving a review. I gave it a look, found it interesting, and left a review. I never went to the forums seeking them out, and as of right now, that's the only review I've written on RR.

2. Advertising is something that people mess up a lot on RR. I've seen it multiple times. I've run 2 ad campaigns now, and both resulted in a net income boost on my Patreon. People think advertising is just about getting eyes on your story. If those eyes are people who wouldn't want to read your story, then you'll get swamped with negative reviews. Both my ad campaigns were targeted at individuals who would enjoy reading my story, and even then I've taken a very small hit to my overall rating thanks to them. They're a double edged sword. I also only started running them when I was confident that my story was high enough quality to support running an ad campaign. Too many people put the cart before the horse on this and end up just burning money.

3. They do have different standards than Scribblehub and certain content isn't allowed (and it has become more restrictive since they put their app up on the google play store). This is what it is.

The review swaps were mistake.

They were, however, suggested as the one thing the starting writer not only could but also should do in order to "get eyes on their story" so I went alone with it. I did from 40 to 50 review swaps. First, it was in order to get the views, the eyes of the story, as it was suggested, then I become the desperate to remedy the damage the "fixers" had caused as punishment for doing what I was suggested to do.

If I could suggest anything to people still willing to try the Royal Road, do not do review swaps. Never ever. Review swaps are the suicide pact of the Royal Road. I was stupid seal to jump through their hoop, and I was punished for it. Once you jump, you could never stop jumping. The necessity to keep up with the retarded mechanics of the Royal Road would burn one out sooner than writing the story would.

I would always help other writers up. It was bad for them, as it was bad for me. They were also struggling for views, for attention, for positive feedback. I think there was one I swapped with that made it. But for most, it was a trap, which lead to another trap - and the second one would cost real money.

The Royal Road personifies the "unwanted feedback" this thread speaks about on an industrial scale. And revel in it, to make money.

Not only writing is competitive level on the Royal Road. The "feedback" is too.

I was, in fact, so keen to hear something positive for the chance that I did asked Reddit if there are sites you could post the story on that aren't the a ... Royal Road.

There is a reason why someone put the Reddit mascot on the images I posted.

Needless to say, I didn't like the answer.

Of course that all the writers receive the negative feedback. You couldn't be traditionally published successful author without receiving at least a few death threats.

Only hobbyist receive the negativity during the creative process, not after the work is completed.

And they can wonder whether the posting anything was worth it.

If they didn't react to it, and "toughed up" a little, the others wouldn't receive quite a kick from being negative, and in the end, no one would interact with anyone.

Internet interactions are strange anyway.

To cite the certain movie "strange game. Only winning move is not to play."

 

[KidBuu699]

View attachment 25861
Internet Jerks exist as long as the Internet does.
I just don't understand why the management of the Royal Road thinks that this behaviour would somehow lead to be better content from the entirely amateur writers working in their spare time.

One thing people need to realize is that the people behind all these sites are playing a balancing game. You need both the readers and the writers.
The more content you have on a site means more expenses. For a free site on the internet how do you make money to cover those expenses or turn a profit? You do that through ad money. To get that money you need readers to come to your site.

So the readers are your source of income. The amount of them determines the ad revenue the website can pull in. To attract them you need two things. You need to have a site set up that they enjoy interacting with and you need stories/authors publishing on your site. In the end it becomes a balancing game between keeping the authors and readers happy.

The authors could easily put up their work on other sites so you want to keep them satisfied. Some authors have their work on multiple sites so really it is up to the reader on which one they like better. There are plenty of sites just like this one and RR for both groups to choose from. For the idea that an author could just put up there work on one site their are go arounds. Work is plagiarized or stolen all the time. If the reader really hates a site so much they could go searching for copies of a story somewhere else. Or they could just ignore it in general. Just look at Qidian for example. When they were doing all of their shady stuff some people straight up refused to read anything associated with them. Others used pirate sites to read what they were posting.

So in the end its a balancing game. They don't want the authors or readers to leave so they try their best to make both sides happy.

 

[nemonusquam_]

If it ain't building up your story, at least it'll build up your character.

 

[John_Owl]

I'm all for feedback, regardless. engagement is engagement, regardless of the form it takes. and such criticisms can help you become a better author. That said, when I leave criticism (rarely) I always make sure to ALSO praise what they've done well. so they don't feel like I'm just tearing them down. So they know I'm genuinely trying to help them be a better author for themselves.

That said, if I leave a critique, I don't expect anyone to pay attention or care, let alone do as I've said. it's their story, after all.

 

[J_Chemist]

[Take 2] Misunderstood the question.

Feedback is always wanted and sought after. As a writer, you want some form of feedback on your story because without it, you'll never grow or become better. You won't like it and you might hate it, but get over it. You're posting on a public site with a review button and a comment section. People are going to point out your errors/mistakes. It's fine, that's what you want.

While they suck, you want those dirty reviews that dig at you and point out your grammar errors or your plot holes because it draws your attention to it. So long as the feedback is positive construction towards your story and not some asshat smearing the brown he just dug out of his ass over his own keyboard like the ape he probably is, then we take it.

If a person points out a grammar error in the comments, thank them, make the fix, and get on with it. You'll live. Maybe if you get enough you'll go from a 0.5 star rating on your polish heap of poetic trash up to a 1 star. Who knows.

 

[Garon]

Many times, people post their stories for people to read. Some readers take it upon themselves to critique and make corrections, without asking beforehand.
In my experience, this upsets writers at times because they didn't ask to be told what they've done wrong in their writing. I have also had someone correct my work without asking me, and it has it's negative effects.

One thing I find is when you start editing your work while writing it, it ruins the creative flow and causes the mind to focus more on writing properly rather than just having fun writing. That most likely is one of the reasons why people don't like unwanted feedback.

But basically, what are your thoughts? Should people ask the author if they want feedback, or do you think its fine that someone just gives feedback regardless the situation?

I had this problem. At the end of each chapter I asked if there were any errors in the plot or in the behavior of the characters. But the empty howls in the comments made it clear that there was no point in this, and allowed me to understand how persistent I was. Although in my defense I can say that I want to see at least some criticism in my comments. This allows me to understand whether I am swimming in the right direction.

 

[Mr.J]

I just dont give a fuck at this point. People will give you a 0.5 review just because your mc decided to do something different than what they imagined. Screw readers! Author rights are human rights!

Agreed, luckily I've yet to face that, or much of anything cuz I haven't gotten any reviews yet (thankfully lol) but yeah. I consider all feedback good feed, the only two exceptions to this is if the person is just being a troll OR If the person blatantly just does not like what I write. It's understandable if you don't like certain stories, drop it. But don't come hating on the characters and the very world itself, I much prefer that you critique my writing styles, grammar and punctuation or call out things that I may have contradicted myself on

 

[KuruKinaar]

Many times, people post their stories for people to read. Some readers take it upon themselves to critique and make corrections, without asking beforehand.
In my experience, this upsets writers at times because they didn't ask to be told what they've done wrong in their writing. I have also had someone correct my work without asking me, and it has it's negative effects.

One thing I find is when you start editing your work while writing it, it ruins the creative flow and causes the mind to focus more on writing properly rather than just having fun writing. That most likely is one of the reasons why people don't like unwanted feedback.

But basically, what are your thoughts? Should people ask the author if they want feedback, or do you think its fine that someone just gives feedback regardless the situation?

I just want to clarify, I don't mind feedback. I think gaining many perspectives on your work helps grow and improve your story to be better.
This thought/post stemmed from people not wanting my feedback and being highly aggressive towards me, especially after asking me to give my feedback and not liking what I responded with. It was really confusing to me as to why someone would share their work but act like the victim whenever someone gave them feedback to improve their work or help them.
So, thank you for those who have responded, it really helped put in perspective some of my negative experiences I've had over the years.