What is more important, plot or character?

[BlackKnightX]

I prefer plot over character mainly because with writing a plot, I can teach readers about themes with an overarching story.

But I guess I still need characters in order to do that.
Dammit.

You can’t separate the two. It just doesn’t work well. But you sure can focus on one more than the other.

I choose plot. I have read too many story with bad characterization but having good plot at this point so I'm get used to it...

Example, I'm playing eroge too (more than 200 at this point) and most of the mc was like a stupid virgin who won lottery harem for some not realistic reason, then when it comes to heroine they become dense as brick to them until the heroine forced to kiss the mc. Good characterization? More like good design.. yes.

Or just lucky enough to survive the whole plot if it was action story (lmao).

I would still go on if the story has plot, even though mc was dumb af, all heroine also dumb cliche af, but the plot is epic.

Rance is great example.

However if the story only emphasize the character, and the plot was too simple as I could predict it from start I would drop it. There is no point to read it when I know it would end the same (heroine ended with mc)

It is just my subjective opinion though.

Yep, it’s very subjective. I think all plots are predictable. It’s just using the same pattern in the different ways.

Like, we all know that the character is gonna triumph in the end. We know that the mc and the heroine will end up together. We all know that the mc will defeat the bad guys.

It’s just genre expectations. If you fail to do this, it will leave readers unsatisfied. Well at least, I am one such reader.

The fun part is how the character arrives there.

Also, I sure as hell hate tragedy.

 

[SailusGebel]

Plot.

 

[TheTrinary]

I feel like everyone saying plot is basing that on the fact that when the characters work, what happens then becomes extremely important.

Show me one story where you hated the character but that didn't' matter because what was happening was so cool. If you're actively rooting against a character, then it just doesn't matter what's happening.

 

[SailusGebel]

I feel like everyone saying plot is basing that on the fact that when the characters work, what happens then becomes extremely important.

Show me one story where you hated the character but that didn't' matter because what was happening was so cool. If you're actively rooting against a character, then it just doesn't matter what's happening.

Ankoku Kishi Monogatari ~Yuusha wo Taosu Tameni Maou ni Shoukansaremashita~

 

[TheTrinary]

Ankoku Kishi Monogatari ~Yuusha wo Taosu Tameni Maou ni Shoukansaremashita~

Bless you

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

Yep, like I said, you need both to create a good story. But, you can still focus on one more than the other.

The weight of the boat or the robustness of the river can vary. The boat won’t sink as long as it stay within the balance.

Oh yeah, well if I had to pick it'd be the characters. Their personality and how they approach the different aspects of life can enrich the plot as well. It's symbiotic imo. Characters live the plot, so it's pretty inevitable that one bleeds into the other.

It's like the hyperborea meme of game lore, but plot vs character lmao.

 

[BlackKnightX]

Oh yeah, well if I had to pick it'd be the characters. Their personality and how they approach the different aspects of life can enrich the plot as well. It's symbiotic imo. Characters live the plot, so it's pretty inevitable that one bleeds into the other.

It's like the hyperborea meme of game lore, but plot vs character lmao.

Yeah, I know. It’s just kinda fun to talk about. Nothing serious.

I’m sure everyone have their own opinions and taste. It’s fun to get to know others’ perspective on things.

 

[Emi_the_Fairy]

I think it depends on the story, but I think the more important thing is what's being conveyed.

A cool compelling plot can fall flat if it has nothing to say and trips over itself in the end. And a character can be compelling on paper and be unengaging in a story if those parts ring hollow.

Nothing tires out a story faster to me than a muddled message that seems at odds with itself or won't consider the more interesting aspects of its world. Likewise I love it when a story looks into the cultures surrounding the characters, both to sink into the differences and share ideas.

 

[Szara]

I prefer “good plot, boring characters” over “good characters, boring plot.” Plot is more important to me, because that’s essentially what storytelling is.

 

[SakeVision]

I feel like everyone saying plot is basing that on the fact that when the characters work, what happens then becomes extremely important.

Show me one story where you hated the character but that didn't' matter because what was happening was so cool. If you're actively rooting against a character, then it just doesn't matter what's happening.

Death Note

 

[NotaNuffian]

I have no idea how to tell the difference, especially in CN xianxias and xuanhuan.

What the fuck is a good plot? Who the hell represents a good character?

 

[greyblob]

good characters + mediocre plot > mediocre characters + good plot

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

I have no idea how to tell the difference, especially in CN xianxias and xuanhuan.

What the fuck is a good plot? Who the hell represents a good character?

"Junior, you dare?! You do not understand the profundity and immensity of the dao. Xianxia and Xuahhuan are obviously the pinnacle with the most realistic portrayal of relationships and well-written rivalries. The plot is also so indepth that the 15th ever tournament arc of the 10k+ chapters are full of twists and interesting plot like saving that one jade beauty for the 420th time or finally getting that vial of dragon cum to advance to the ping-pong realm! Kowtow 69 times and call me granddady and I may just kill you instead of slaughtering your clan." -said no one unironically

 

[ConcubusBunny]

I'd say both if I had to choose then character cause you can have a shitty plot and people will forgive you if your characters in are well written, but if you have shitty characters mo one will care how good your plot is no matter how little impact you'll have with good plot and terrible characters when the characters are the back bone of your plot but lacking one or the other will lead to a shitty story.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Characters will always outshine the plot if done well. Those are the ones you remember in the end and root for. So for me, characters are the most important component of a good story. Why? Because a plot without sympathetic characters is dull. There is no one to root for if I hate everyone in the cast. Especially the MC. Many people get turned off because MC did something out of character or suddenly shifts his view.

Character growth intertwined with the plot is the best outcome for a story. No one sticks around to see the world burn unless there are good characters playing out their parts.

 

[SailusGebel]

Characters will always outshine the plot if done well. Those are the ones you remember in the end and root for. So for me, characters are the most important component of a good story. Why? Because a plot without sympathetic characters is dull. There is no one to root for if I hate everyone in the cast. Especially the MC. Many people get turned off because MC did something out of character or suddenly shifts his view.

Character growth intertwined with the plot is the best outcome for a story. No one sticks around to see the world burn unless there are good characters playing out their parts.

Likable character =\= good character.

 

[TheTrinary]

Death Note

You're a crazy person. Some of those characters are iconic. In fact, people seem to dislike the show far more when one of those characters die and you are stuck with blander replacements.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Likable character =\= good character.

True, likable are the sympathetic characters. Most villains aren't likable, but they can be good characters essential to the plot. In fact, any character that makes you feel emotions either good or bad. Well, that means they are doing their job. Unless it is so badly written that you just can't understand their ways or personality.

Though usually, people need to like one aspect of a character for them to stick through the story, or it is a slug. Let's say the guy is an incredible psychopath. This means most people won't connect with him. But the way he acts may fascinate them and that makes him a good character. Throw a few likable things like he has a moral rule of not harming children and boom, you have a good, likable character.

Kind of like Dexter... Uh, I hope that is the name of the show. Not the best example, but is the only one I can come up with. Either way, the more likable your characters are, the more people will stick around. Though not everyone is a $100 bill to be loved by everyone. c:

 

[SailusGebel]

True, likable are the sympathetic characters. Most villains aren't likable, but they can be good characters essential to the plot. In fact, any character that makes you feel emotions either good or bad. Well, that means they are doing their job. Unless it is so badly written that you just can't understand their ways or personality.

Most villains aren't likable because they are written poorly. Those who are written well are either adored, or people LOVE to hate them. It's not the frustration of how badly he is written, but the frustration of how badly he acts.

Though usually, people need to like one aspect of a character for them to stick through the story, or it is a slug. Let's say the guy is an incredible psychopath. This means most people won't connect with him. But the way he acts may fascinate them and that makes him a good character. Throw a few likable things like he has a moral rule of not harming children and boom, you have a good, likable character.

This isn't how you do a good character. And this certainly isn't how you do a likable character. To make a likable character, you cater to the readers. That's because different groups of readers like different types of characters. To make a good character, you add depth to him, and sometimes it's necessary to make him unlikable.

Kind of like Dexter... Uh, I hope that is the name of the show. Not the best example, but is the only one I can come up with. Either way, the more likable your characters are, the more people will stick around. Though not everyone is a $100 bill to be loved by everyone. c:

And what kind of proof do you have that people don't stay for the plot? They mistake likable for good and may defend the characters. However, maybe, they are actually thirsting for a good plot? They are simply unaware of it. They read or watch another wish-fulfillment isekai, not because it has great characters, but simply because the whole plot structure of isekai is so good that they are thirsting for it? Haven't you thought of it?

I'm not accusing that you are wrong or defending my stance. I've never looked into this too much and like to go with my gut. If you disagree or I'm wrong somewhere, well, you can prove me wrong. But, truth be told, I don't care about this so much.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Most villains aren't likable because they are written poorly. Those who are written well are either adored, or people LOVE to hate them. It's not the frustration of how badly he is written, but the frustration of how badly he acts.

Uh, I think I said it wrong. Most people have moral values, too. Just because you hate a character doesn't mean it won't like it. Like a good villain will make you feel for them as well as hate them. You won't root for them unless you actually want them to win. It all depends on their back story and personality. A twisted being will never be adored. While a sympathetic one will be.

Usually people like sympathetic evil-doers than psychopathic ones. I'm talking about psychology and how one views the characters.

This isn't how you do a good character. And this certainly isn't how you do a likable character. To make a likable character, you cater to the readers. That's because different groups of readers like different types of characters. To make a good character, you add depth to him, and sometimes it's necessary to make him unlikable.

Like I said, not everyone is a $100 bill. Some people will like your characters, others will not. I guess I did not explain myself well enough. He doesn't have to be likable, but everyone has to sympathize with them somewhere along the way. Understand them. And how do you do that? By adding depth, as you said. Then again, not everyone will like it. And that is fine. But most people won't care for a character they can't identify with to some level.

I disagree when you say it is to cater to readers. The likability of a character depends on how the reader identifies with them. Either good or bad. Not everyone will see the character the same way. This is where individuality comes into place. For example, some people like the MC because he is bold. While others might find him annoying as fuck for being so bold. We can't speak about majorities. Thus, I speak on individual levels.

To be honest, characters are too complex to place under good, likable, dislikable, and bad. Lol Humans are too complex to do that. All I am saying is that you need a sympathetic part or all you will do is isolate the readers. If the plot takes the character down a dark path, then so be it. I am not saying that is bad, just that will be the point where you might see hate/anger thrown at your character. Which, as I said, if a character is making you feel something, then that is a good thing. It's doing its job.

And what kind of proof do you have that people don't stay for the plot? They mistake likable for good and may defend the characters. However, maybe, they are actually thirsting for a good plot? They are simply unaware of it. They read or watch another wish-fulfillment isekai, not because it has great characters, but simply because the whole plot structure of isekai is so good that they are thirsting for it? Haven't you thought of it?

I'm not accusing that you are wrong or defending my stance. I've never looked into this too much and like to go with my gut. If you disagree or I'm wrong somewhere, well, you can prove me wrong. But, truth be told, I don't care about this so much.

I never said people don't stay for the plot. I am talking about personal experience as a reader. And I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way. Likability has nothing to do with being a good character or bad. It helps in the connection of the reader with the story. For me, a plot can be banging, but fucking hell, if I don't like the characters I am bouncing unless I get to see them die horribly. *Recent example Squid games Netflix made me feel like this. Though, I fucking hated the end.*

This means, I probably won't see the second season unless it I get to see MC burn. Then I might want to see it. Like I said before in another post, every story will have a reader/viewer/w.e. For me, personally, characters matter more than the plot. I am more of a character-driven person. If I see them grow, fall, and everything else. It makes me happy. If I see a disliked character, then I hope they burn.

Remember, everyone is an individual and all like different things. All I said was that the more likable characters you have, the more people will stay. I never once said they won't stay for the plot. Otherwise, there wouldn't be as many isekais trending. People want an escape, and that is what a story provides.

I know you aren't accusing me, hun. Don't worry. c: This is all a friendly chat about conflicting views. And that is okay!