What needs to be fleshed out? (serious)

TheMonotonePuppet

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For a psychological horror comedy story with an intended focus on worldbuilding, what needs to be fleshed out to carry out the idea really well?
What aspects of government are important, and which are not?
What aspects of economy can be added in?
Etc.
This is a serious prompt, where I do not want statements like "I don't feel like they are necessary at all" or something along those lines. A serious discussion for writers currently writing with the intent to improve their writing.
If anyone else has serious prompts they want answered, feel free to add those in as part of the discussion.
@MintiLime I know you've had a few writing prompts that went unanswered. Feel free to stick it in here.
 

SailusGebel

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Depends on what kind of horror and comedy it is. I'm fairly sure that you will have to focus on different things for body horror and lovecraftian horror. Same for comedy.
 

RepresentingEnvy

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It really depends on your world. If it is psychological horror with a focus on world building, the first thing I think of is dystopia for the government. Though you could forgo a typical government, and have monsters that roam the cities. In that case the streets could be ruled by gangs.

Which aspects of government or economy are important will heavily depend on the narrative.

Basically what LusG said.
 

Sleds

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What are the environement you want to write the story in and how you want the horror part to be show? For the governement part maybe the part about them wanting to hide anything that can harm their reputation or their urge to gain ressources at any cost. Exemple, to gain ressource they open a "gate" into another dimension, while they gain ressource in it, they found that they have unleashed monsters in our world but they won't said it and the said monsters will hunt human, maybe through nightmare or something else.
 

SailusGebel

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It's not about world, it's about subgenres of your chosen genres. If you write a comedic body horror you will probably have to focus on consumerism. So you have to focus on farming, retail, economy in general, and so on. If you write lovecraftian horror you focus on life apects of people high in power, how they believe in some weird occult things thus influencing the real world. If you write a satire you don't even need to do anything at all since we live in a satire right now. Simply write things as they are, be neutral, and be very detailed. The list goes on and obviously I might be wrong somewhere. What I want to say is, if you don't specify what you want to write, you will have to focus on everything.
 

Simple_Russian_Boi

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It would be good to show the work of those parts of the state that the main character faces. Well, or that anyone can encounter in everyday life. What would a public transport system become if you added a pinch of horror to it?

The obvious point: those aspects of the state that you changed the most are important.

With economics, it also seems obvious to me: you need to highlight how adding tentacles of an ancient god to the free market can shift the price of everything else. Or... well... how people learned to use all that insane stuff you'll add to their world. And why are the prices the way they are.

And you can add little things that make a world feel alive. Dunno what these things are, but you should add them.

Of course, I can't say anything more specific. Even anime shonen worlds are different enough from eachother.
 

J_Chemist

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Your scope and size of the story will determine how much Government and Religious entities are fleshed out/expanded upon. The wider your story and the more inclusive of those entities, the more depth you'll have to do with them. Otherwise, you don't need to go more than surface level. In otherwords; if your characters aren't getting intimate with those entities, then introduce them, utilize more generic details that give us a view of what they are like, then move on. I don't need to know all the different players on the board if I'll never actually see them move.

The same goes with the economy. We don't need to see the money moving, the inflation rates, or actual currency comparisons unless they're integral to the story. A basic idea of how much food, shelter, and supplies I can purchase with the coin of the region will suffice. Knowing the standard of living costs will give me a baseline idea of the world's poverty level. It'll also tell us how "rich" or "poor" the central cast is, and any other characters they come in contact with. Say a loaf of bread. Can they afford it? How many loaves can they buy without breaking the bank? Do they buy a few slices instead of the entire loaf? Do they eat it even if it molds? Or do they buy the entire loaf, use only a few slices, then toss out whatevers left because they don't need it? Does the loaf get purchased and unused until it molds, then gets tossed and replaced without so much as a blink? Stuff like that. Think real world application of money, then transpose it over your world. We know money and currency is important to society but how we each handle it and view it is different based on our circumstances, backgrounds, and future needs/goals.

The horror aspect actually is more secondary. It's a theme and has details. The world is "horror-esque", so you should be detailing your characters and the world as such. It'll paint the picture and get us oriented. However, remember; it's a norm in your world. So write it as such. If three arms or eldritch creatures are a daily sight, then people won't be freaking out over them. If they're like monsters that get hunted, then the hunters aren't going to freak out when they come in contact. Regular people might, but the hunters and those who are aware of them and have regular engagements will not. How they react is important, though. By that I mean rarity and commonplace features. Expectations of what will be faced by the main cast compared to the surprise factor of a new/unknown/unseen/unrecorded threat. I might be aware of bears but if I walk into a den and now I'm looking at a fucking rhino, I'm gonna be really god damn worried.

In essence, layout your common knowledge. Develop that baseline with your readers to set up the Rules of the World. Identify your common place details and separate them from the Uncommon and New that you'll be implementing. If it's not important to your story, cut it out. Trim the fat. Or, find a creative way to incorporate it. That way you don't fact-dump. Use small details, like throwing the bread away or eating the moldy slices to show where your character lays in the finance department rather than open their checkbook.

Hope this helps.
 

RepresentingEnvy

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It's not about world, it's about subgenres of your chosen genres. If you write a comedic body horror you will probably have to focus on consumerism. So you have to focus on farming, retail, economy in general, and so on. If you write lovecraftian horror you focus on life apects of people high in power, how they believe in some weird occult things thus influencing the real world. If you write a satire you don't even need to do anything at all since we live in a satire right now. Simply write things as they are, be neutral, and be very detailed. The list goes on and obviously I might be wrong somewhere. What I want to say is, if you don't specify what you want to write, you will have to focus on everything.
Is body horror considered pychological horror? I thought psychological horror is mostly mental, like watching a person go insane or something.
 

TheMonotonePuppet

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It's not about world, it's about subgenres of your chosen genres. If you write a comedic body horror you will probably have to focus on consumerism. So you have to focus on farming, retail, economy in general, and so on. If you write lovecraftian horror you focus on life apects of people high in power, how they believe in some weird occult things thus influencing the real world. If you write a satire you don't even need to do anything at all since we live in a satire right now. Simply write things as they are, be neutral, and be very detailed. The list goes on and obviously I might be wrong somewhere. What I want to say is, if you don't specify what you want to write, you will have to focus on everything.
What I meant was think My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen, Attack on Titan, Demon Slayer. Animes along those lines, with an urban influence, fighting heroic influence, fantasy elements creeping in, eldritch or monstrous hints, etc.
What would you, @J_Chemist , and @RepresentingEnvy (or others who come into this thread) recommend be included into the world that bares similarities to them to make it truly god-tier. I understand the need to avoid infodumps and how to handle information, but what sets certain animes in terms of world building from the trash? What are some prime examples to illustrate perfection in world building or that you would like to see in certain situations?
Specificity is desired.
 

TheEldritchGod

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You need to know everything.
EVERYTHING.
I start at the level of the galactic walls, then slowly work down to the level of quarks and the fundamental laws of reality. You can ask me to give you a view of any point along the continuum. From solar systems to local towns, to the general store, to blades of grass, to what is in that trunk in the attic across the street.

I WORK IT ALL OUT.

Then, I ignore 99.9999999999999999999999999% of it.

By having an extremely detailed setting, I don't need to do much work, because the work has already been done. I just need to take the "camera" which is the PoV of the MC and point it wherever the story goes and describe what he sees. This applies to comedy to drama to horror to anything. If you put in the work for the setting, so you already know everything, then you have 90% of the work done for you.
 

Sleds

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What I meant was think My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen, Attack on Titan, Demon Slayer. Animes along those lines, with an urban influence, fighting heroic influence, fantasy elements creeping in, eldritch or monstrous hints, etc.
What would you, @J_Chemist , and @RepresentingEnvy (or others who come into this thread) recommend be included into the world that bares similarities to them to make it truly god-tier. I understand the need to avoid infodumps and how to handle information, but what sets certain animes in terms of world building from the trash? What are some prime examples to illustrate perfection in world building or that you would like to see in certain situations?
Specificity is desired.
You can go with two path. One the public know about these entities and seek the help of "heroes" while the heroes goes through hard time and that where you can write about the horror part. Second path, the public don't know, but the government does and try to hide to not let the public panic, in that case you have a lot of options, be it the need of some power to see those eldritch monsters or they live in another dimension like in twin star exorcist for exemple when "impurities" (that how they call the monsters in it) lives in a world who the same as earth, sometime they cross the barrier that separate the two world and attract people in their world to eat them.


Edit : You can use old movies reference too, like with freddy krueger. people can be attacked in their nightmare and while the "monster" are needed to be fight inside those nightmare the "heroes" who can enter the nightmare have to go through the fear of the people who dream about those nightmare. Imagine you fight against a monster and then the one who dream change the scenary completly and add just more hardship due to how the nightmare impact the "heroes".
 

RepresentingEnvy

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What I meant was think My Hero Academia, Jujutsu Kaisen, Attack on Titan, Demon Slayer. Animes along those lines, with an urban influence, fighting heroic influence, fantasy elements creeping in, eldritch or monstrous hints, etc.
What would you, @J_Chemist , and @RepresentingEnvy (or others who come into this thread) recommend be included into the world that bares similarities to them to make it truly god-tier. I understand the need to avoid infodumps and how to handle information, but what sets certain animes in terms of world building from the trash? What are some prime examples to illustrate perfection in world building or that you would like to see in certain situations?
Specificity is desired.
I don't think Demon Slayer is world building focused. Aside from the demons literally building worlds with their techniques. There is hardly a focus on anything government related, and the main thing we see are the battles between the demons and demon slayers.

Out of the four you listed, AOT and My Hero are the ones with more focus on the government. Though I didn't watch/read much of My Hero since I didn't enjoy it. Jujutsu Kaisen is also mostly battle related like Demon Slayer.

Mostly it will be subjective whether people prefer to watch/read something with a lot of world building in any type of horror. I liked Jujutsu Kaisen, but it wasn't very strong in the horror department for me. There isn't much tension involved. Demon Slayer was also pretty weak in the horror department for the same reason. Attack on Titan is the strongest in the horror department of the three. This is because it invokes powerlessness from the first episode. Though the horror falls off pretty quickly after the first seasons.

I think body horror can only invoke psychological horror for so long. How many times can you see the same demons, titans, and amalgamations before you overcome your fear?

With horror the buildup is more important than the actual monster/s. All of the best horror stories have tension slowly built in.

Now I know I said there is no objective way to build the world into your story, but in my opinion, it would be better to do what AOT did. It has some problems, but the world invokes a feel of powerlessness that you don't get from Demon Slayer or Jujutsu Kaisen.
 

Mystic_Grasshopper

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I think a great example of this might be parasyte the maxim it's not a shonen but it has the sort of worldbuilding that did an excellent job of immersing the viewer.

Particularly it genuinely presented the overwhelming sense of isolation the protagonist felt with the way the media and government decided to deal with all the freaky alien murders happening.

-Social media was used to convey conspiracies of a serial killer going out of their way to crush and dismember their victims. When in reality it's a bunch of aliens on the loose.
-News and tv covered up all the facts with propaganda and dangerous social influence. There's literally a thing the news started talking about with a match making activity that ended up revealing the imposter aliens due to their unique anatomy. They covered up the deaths of politicians and an entire government building with an escape goat terrorist story.
-The government itself began militarizing their police forces and taking in scientific experts to create ways to identify and weed out aliens. Not to mention part of the local government itself began fraternizing and thinking up ways to integrate the newly assimilated aliens.
Ultimately the show and manga proves to be just about the best way someone can do worldbuilding in a situation gone haywire with the addition of supernatural elements. Not to mention several key scenes and parts of the series all take place in the urban setting.

But for a more generalist approach on what should be "fleshed out" it's clear that all forms of media that seem interesting or relevant to the protagonist should get the focus. This goes from internet social media avenues, television news stations, or even creepy radios that might play a certain message or station at a certain time from a location that could be undisclosed or mysterious.
For the government side of things, generally more focus should be placed on the executive branch both local and nation wide as the police and government at large tend to enforce curfews and other more direct methods of actions that the characters and readers can immediately be presented with. The legislative or law making branch should get focus if the setting has or needs to show that the occurrences are now commonplace or at least accounted for within the internal workings of the society. The judicial branch might have some form of relevancy if they are combined with the executive branch in doling out punishments and apprehending the anomalies covered, otherwise it can be safely ignored.
Economy wise, again if the threat or strangeness of that world is found in the very fabrics of society then currency and goods can even determine whether business have involvement in the story. Maybe they take payments of souls so they can continue to contract demons (private devil hunters - chainsaw man). Maybe the currency is also done in terms of contracts that force those that accept to accomplish something or avoid doing another (binding vows - jujutsu kaisen.)
Things that can be avoided economically can also just be in general the whole of what exact money or tender is used, the stocks of uninvolved companies, business practices that don't have anything to do with the plot of the story too.
 

SailusGebel

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This will sound very edgy, but I don't know how to phrase it well enough. Real-life darkness. The bad stuff that is usually ignored, and I'm not talking about racism or lgbt stuff in USA or something similar. What I mean is the inclusion of a lot of things such as human trafficking, total incompetence of higher-ups, selling your body for the fame, and so on. Basically, bad stuff that everyone knows of, but rarely talks about. Without overdramatazing, making it the focus of the story, or trying to romanticize it, don't make it into a Requiem for a Dream or something similar. Make it sound like an everyday occurence. A lot of very dirty stuff happens every second, and this is how world works, and it won't change.

And don't make it an ultra-super dark world with no hope and no good people.

To explain what I want to see I will write a small scene. Two middle-aged acquaintances run into each other and they have twenty or so minutes to catch up with each other and have a converastion. They talk about various stuff and one of them mentions how this one producer, or businessman, someone in power, abused their power and made something really bad. Like rape or pedo stuff or something. And the second person scrunches up their face, not because he\she find it disgusting, but because he\she don't want to hear about it. This is what I want. Despite the news being very disturbing no one has a surprised pikachu face when they hear about it. And no one starts rambling how they will change things or punich people. They don't want to hear about it.
 

J_Chemist

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To be honest, it's impossible (I think) to provide you with the accurate advice of how to achieve the god-tier setting you're looking for. And the reason I say this is because all we can give you is the "perfect world" scenario. What to include in order to achieve perfection. What is expected. Obviously, you want to go through your world with a fine tooth comb and explain the details of it to your reader with such precision that they can imagine the world to be a sort of alternative reality to ours. They can say "this makes sense". Or, based on the Rules you provide, put it into perspective as to why things are the way they are.

The problem is that I don't know how to do that, myself. If you read my book, I'm not perfect with it either. What I can say is to look at what those examples did. They stripped the world of reality clean and then applied their own reality. But, they had a baseline. They had a baseline "earth" that we could relate to and then threw in a curveball; superpowers/quirks appeared, titans ate the human population down to nothing (humans evolved into titans), demons appeared and made contracts with people. Stuff like that is an addition to earth.

If you want to remake a whole new world, you're going to need to start from the ground up. Describe your civilization. Describe its basic functions. Describe the world, the people, the quirks and entities. Describe the why for why your world is why it is. You need to develop that global viewpoint, then focus it down into the bubble of the characters.

My worldbuilding is pretty mid so I don't have the mental capacity to provide you with proper information and answers. But I can give you generic ideas that you should be focusing on that I try to think about. How you execute and how you perform will depend on your personal biases and what you see as necessary in your story. Above all, have fun with it. Don't focus on details that you hate or dislike because it'll be dry, boring, and won't add to the impact of the story. Stick with what you know and go from there.
 

MintiLime

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I love worldbuilding!

Okay, so…

1. Medical field. I work in medical research irl and 1000% there would be arguments over how to conduct research on these creatures, what the government laws are, the ethics, etc. Now, I think an untapped area of this isn’t “ah! The horrible mad scientist does bad things!” It’s “ok, yeah, I’m a lab tech and second day they handed me a scalpel and wanted me to remove this jellyfish nightmare’s nervous system. Sucks, but it pays” Normal people growing apathetic to these creatures and having a hand in studying them. It’s tired grad students trying to figure out what to do their thesis on and writing the fifth paper on the same subject of “they have eyes.” It’s students in universities getting expelled for desecrating the corpse of an alien and carving their initials into it. The sheer callousness of it all, the monotony, the lack of madness, is it’s own horror.

2. Rich people food. Licking chocolate off hands and experimenting with eating what was it? Pufferfish? That still have a bit of poison in it for the ✨ spice ✨ Imagine that in a horror world. Zombies as waiters dragging out trays of food. Alien exoskeletons as fancy bowls.

3. The middle class people version of that. Releasing little kids toys that mimic the horror. Halloween costumes. Hot topic t-shirts.

4. Charisma makes me think of a ZOO. Captured torments treated like a freak show carnival show. People love seeing freaky things.

5. Reality tv shows.

6. Body modification artists being asked to do plastic surgeries to make people look more or less odd.

7. The beauty industry capitalizing on everything. Covering scars to look pretty for rich people. Creating scars for middle class people to look tough.

8. Government poor assistance programs used as cover-ups for money laundering and corruption. Misappropriation of funds. Fake charities.
Following on that, I think a lot of government issues important to flesh out would be small things everyday people would want to know about. Food regulation laws. How much insect parts and alien meat per hot dog. Think that one book by Sinclair I think? Taxes. Animal rights.

New fiction genres. R18 comics. Red light districts.

legalization of certain psychedelic substances.

Combatting abuse of prescription pills. New ways to diagnose psychiatric disorders when those crazy hallucinations might not be hallucinations.

Snake oil peddlers and pyramid schemes. Selling cheap low quality swords door to door. Saying rosemary oil will drive away demons.

Conspiracy theorists.
 
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