Why Tournament Arcs???

[So_Indecisive]

So I was reading a story here on SH and it's been very good so far. Decent plot, nice pacing, a not completely unlikable character and a good premise.

I've been reading it to pass the time since and now I'm considering dropping it.

So why am I dropping this novel that I enjoy so much.... The tournament arc.

This is basically a mainstay in webnovels now and while I initially enjoyed it when I started reading years ago, now I utterly despise them. Especially when the MC has no need to participate in such a tournament to begin with.

I understand that it's a good indicator of the MC's progress in comparison to his peers and is a good way to grant a power up to the MC from nowhere but why, it's already too much, can't author's just do something different.

After my lengthy rant I'm still going to go back to read it but I'm skipping all the tournament chapters.

 

[Corty]

 

[So_Indecisive]

Ah so you also believe in the necessity of tournament arcs you heretic

 

[PancakesWitch]

theyre made to show the progress of their growth, introduce new plot-relevant characters, and more. but they usually work out when there's already a well established main party of friends you care about, if you read something without the intention of caring about these characters and you only want to see the mc doing everything and anything, then yeah it can become boring. Keep in mind that authors that write multiple characters like them and want to see them progress too, make them face their own challenges against mighty foes that could be actual threats to them. Usually though, this only happens in battle-oriented stories and action focused ones. your fault for reading that and not expecting the most basic action plot imaginable, thanks Toriyama-sensei for popularizing it, may he rest in peace.

 

[So_Indecisive]

theyre made to show the progress of their growth, introduce new plot-relevant characters, and more. but they usually work out when there's already a well established main party of friends you care about, if you read something without the intention of caring about these characters and you only want to see the mc doing everything and anything, then yeah it can become boring. Keep in mind that authors that write multiple characters like them and want to see them progress too, make them face their own challenges against mighty foes that could be actual threats to them. Usually though, this only happens in battle-oriented stories and action focused ones. your fault for reading that and not expecting the most basic action plot imaginable, thanks Toriyama-sensei for popularizing it, may he rest in peace.

No this story I'm talking about has none of that. The MC basically has no friends and the whole tournament arc is just going to basically be about him shocking the crowd with how powerful he is and shit like "impossible, you're just a commoner, how can you be so strong".

That type of shit. I don't mind tournament arcs but most people tend to do them very badly so I basically have PTSD in this regard. So it's very hard for me now to give tournament arcs the benefit of doubt.

 

[Insomniologist]

Ah yes… tournament arcs.
Almost as bad as kidnapping arcs, but without any of the angst.
Truly, the isekai checklist has ruined some things.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

The problem is that they are cliche.

When you use something and it's predictable, it becomes boring. In most tournament arcs, is there any doubt who will win? Is there any doubt what will happen? The MC telegraphs what he's planning and what he expects and you do not, for one instant believe it will turn out any other way.

So, if the outcome of a tourney arc isn't up for question, then why have them? Sometimes the answer is, it's not what is going to happen, but HOW it happens. In this case, it's usually best to have someone you want to see LOSE. You need a bad guy you built up properly that the reader will hate and go, "Yes. I want to see him get his face punched in."

Me? I went the subversion route. I had the tourney arc set up, then someone sabotaged the MC's application and he wasn't on the fight roster. So, with a Wink and a Nod to the camera, the MC turned to his sidekick and went, "What's the point of fixing this? We both know who would win if we actually fought in the competition. Instead, let's do something else."

The Tourney was the backdrop to the story, not the main story.

The point is to avoid being predictable. The Tourney arc needs to have a QUESTION. The Question needs to be answered by the end of the arc. If the answer is already known, then your Tourney Arc will suck.

This applies to all Plot Arcs.

 

[Corty]

Ah so you also believe in the necessity of tournament arcs you heretic

Cliches are good when they are done right.

 

[SsemouyOnan]

Hear me out... tournament arc... but all the competitors play beach volleyball! 2-in-1!

 

[Vnator]

Gigguk is quickly approaching your location

 

[Daitengu]

Ah, the classic shounen anime trope. I too am done with them. Once you learned that Japan has two tournament types, ladder and team, you notice even anime without official tournaments act like tournaments.

Every battle arc in Bleach and One Piece act exactly like a team elimination tournament.

I'm tired of em after 25 years of anime. It's why I dropped out of MHA. Heck trope subversion of a tournament is only good the first time as well. MC stomping everyone? Seen it. Losing his ass for lolz? Seen it.

 

[Tsuru]

So I was reading a story here on SH and it's been very good so far. Decent plot, nice pacing, a not completely unlikable character and a good premise.

I've been reading it to pass the time since and now I'm considering dropping it.

So why am I dropping this novel that I enjoy so much.... The tournament arc.

This is basically a mainstay in webnovels now and while I initially enjoyed it when I started reading years ago, now I utterly despise them. Especially when the MC has no need to participate in such a tournament to begin with.

I understand that it's a good indicator of the MC's progress in comparison to his peers and is a good way to grant a power up to the MC from nowhere but why, it's already too much, can't author's just do something different.

After my lengthy rant I'm still going to go back to read it but I'm skipping all the tournament chapters.

Ah, the classic shounen anime trope. I too am done with them. Once you learned that Japan has two tournament types, ladder and team, you notice even anime without official tournaments act like tournaments.

Every battle arc in Bleach and One Piece act exactly like a team elimination tournament.

I'm tired of em after 25 years of anime. It's why I dropped out of MHA. Heck trope subversion of a tournament is only good the first time as well. MC stomping everyone? Seen it. Losing his ass for lolz? Seen it.

You are correct
this trope is now "over-used" and now "boring"

To cite a classic series : Soul Land
had like plot mostly being tournaments

Spoiler: (This paragraph can be skipped if knowing why its done) (offtopic analogies, lot of them)

To understand why it's done, its easier to see it with old "xianxia urban" shitty series. You got cultivator MC > oh i can heal your XXXX > ty i invite you, come tonight > come tonight in big mansion > sorry there is now a op doctor that can solve the issue > taunt MC> try to heal blablabla doctor cant heal/made it worse> faceslap > mc heal the guy and "doctor" lost
Basically. Its the "green leaf effect". And/or "no harm without comparison" + in same logic in romance, that "losing someone, make you understand their importance"
If not for THIS "green leaf effect" the CHARACTERS inside the series (and readers), can't really see the STRENGTH/IMPORTANCE in a really good way.
Its like a a key-maker, you call him, he unlock your door in 3min, you pay him 300$ (no clue about the price)
It feels unfair, and also have lot of real situation where the shameless client doesnt pay.
But in fact, what he did with the lock, is something hard (kinda) + need to survive with pay + rarity of the profession. But sadly there is no "comparison" that could help showcase them they did a good job and in fact why now they fake taking a long time.
And same reason there are tournaments (beside fun to see), fighting OTHER HUMANS, showcase THEIR STRENGTH vs NORMALITY
Readers know how op is a kamehameha when seeing other martial artists that dont have similar stuff (or weaker)
tldr : comparison

Now in 2020+
in chinese novels
its far more common, to have "livestream" and stuff to have people "react" to the op strength of MC
And if tournaments, its necessary, and MC crush easily competition.

Anyway, its true that "tournament" is a cheap method of writing.
But its also bc not everyone can be a genius author. Or they are fking lazy. Or they are bad authors that can't make the tournament fun enough to attract the (expert) readers.

 

[LilRora]

Tournament arcs can be good if used properly, but unfortunately a vast majority of authors makes them too long and too battle-focused. A tournament should be an excuse to have a fight while the story does its own thing, but it shouldn't interrupt the story and generally it shouldn't be an important plot point - or at least, not directly. It's much better to make things happen during the tournament (or the tournament in the middle of other things), but let the fighting in itself remains in the background.

I think a lot of people don't realize that action does not attract people to a story by itself. Fighting in a tournament is just that - it's action without virtually any flavor. What makes stories focused on action fun is not just the action, but the progress of the story, everything that happens because of the fighting and that leads to fighting.

 

[2wordsperminute]

The problem is that they are cliche.

When you use something and it's predictable, it becomes boring. In most tournament arcs, is there any doubt who will win? Is there any doubt what will happen? The MC telegraphs what he's planning and what he expects and you do not, for one instant believe it will turn out any other way.

So, if the outcome of a tourney arc isn't up for question, then why have them? Sometimes the answer is, it's not what is going to happen, but HOW it happens. In this case, it's usually best to have someone you want to see LOSE. You need a bad guy you built up properly that the reader will hate and go, "Yes. I want to see him get his face punched in."

Me? I went the subversion route. I had the tourney arc set up, then someone sabotaged the MC's application and he wasn't on the fight roster. So, with a Wink and a Nod to the camera, the MC turned to his sidekick and went, "What's the point of fixing this? We both know who would win if we actually fought in the competition. Instead, let's do something else."

The Tourney was the backdrop to the story, not the main story.

The point is to avoid being predictable. The Tourney arc needs to have a QUESTION. The Question needs to be answered by the end of the arc. If the answer is already known, then your Tourney Arc will suck.

This applies to all Plot Arcs.

Literally pokemon solves the issue of knowing how it ends. You never know. Sure, ash will probably lose so that he doesn't reach his goal, but there were some times that he either won or looked like he would win. Of course, pokemon is over now, but this is about when it was running.

 

[Zagaroth]

Many tournament arcs are thrown in as a checklist, that is not a good reason. But there can be good reasons.

I have a living dungeon story where the dungeon will be throwing the tournament rather than being a normal participant, offering suitable prizes for all participants, based on how well they do. Of course, there are some requirements: To participate, you have to have delved down to the level where the tournament will be held, via the combat path. Audience members can pay in goods to be escorted down. The energy expenditure of the participants will be very profitable for the dungeon on top of the initial delve.

There will also be some challenges seeded in at the higher tiers: a selection of floor bosses that you have to fight solo instead of with a group.

And if you can pass all the challenges, then you get to fight the dungeon's avatar. Mordecai might even bring in backup for the final challenge, if he thinks it balances out to a fair fight. Winning or losing doesn't matter much here for him, it's all about the effort expended to overcome these challenges. That's what gives the dungeon more mana, it 'feeds' on the expended energy. Some of that energy is recycled into prizes, but that's fine if everyone is happy with their return on investment.

With one of the returns on investment being an intangible: building more goodwill.

Oh, and this will be happening in volume 4 or 5, depending on how long it takes to get to "early spring". And it will be the only tournament arc.

This means I will be spending less time on the individual combats until enough rounds have passed that we can focus on the remaining participants. Heck, I haven't even decided who the key participants will be yet, though two of them I just settled on, and it should be entertaining if I do it right.

 

[Gryphon]

I'm literally writing a whole new novel because I want to scratch my tournament arc itch. I've wanted to write one for so long, but have been unable to because I want to write stories that don't focus on one arc for 100+ chapters. With this, I'll hopefully be able to scratch the itch and let it fade. Or maybe I'll make it stronger. Who knows.

 

[ACertainPassingUser]

These days, i would prefer if MC just watch yhe tournament instead of Joining.

Especially when they turned the tournament into cultural learning experience instead of measuring battle of MC against the current top world fighter.

Watching tournament is supossed to be FUN, thats why people watch it in the first place. As an author, they're supossed to be able to show the readers the fun aspect of watching competition in the first place.

They also shouldve show los of eays of how to become invested in the competition participant without our MC being involved in one.

Especially when participating in Competition is absolute hell fight with uncomfortable heavy pressure from all the 360° sides filled with thousands of spectators, observers, sightseers, and other curious and obsessed humans dead sight on watching your every action.

And authors, do you tell me that its fun to read for our MC to experience that ?

Please more MC enjoying cmpetition in lots of ways other than competing in one.

And if MC is gonna join one, please at least let him watch some more festivities and train properly before going in, and please no win at first competition. Just give the balance of losing to some great competitors that are worth losing to.

Only let MC win after tasting some loss in these competitions. It's a mere competition after all, not a plot event life-death battle with MC's life at stake.