Anyone knows German?

[yansusustories]

I wasn't really sure which forum to put this in but I could use some help from somebody who knows German. It's like this: I'm trying to translate some of my stories. While the modern ones and pseudo-historical ones aren't that much of a problem, I'm really struggling to even get started with the cultivation stories. My main gripe is with cultivation terms and titles and even the more 'basic' ones are troublesome because they just seem to sound really awkward? So I wanted to ask for some second opinions for what I've come up with and maybe some suggestions for the stuff where I just can't think of anything.

The terms I'm struggling with right now would be these:

• cultivation/cultivator: An idea might be 'Kultivierung' for the former but it sounds like a concept nobody would know what I mean with. I was thinking of just substituting it for something like 'Dao(ismus)' but it'll be a problem if I happen to introduce some Buddhist cultivation or even just when the evil cultivation path appears later on so I'm not really happy with that either.
• practitioner: In my stories, those are mostly like martial artists which should be a known term in German (At least I think it is?) so I'd likely go with that but I'd be up for some better alternatives if you can think of anything!
• (cultivation) sect: I'd totally leave out the cultivation part here and just go with something for sect to make my life easier but even that is a bit difficult because, to me, 'Sekte' always feels like 'crazy religious group', 'Gilde' sounds either like trade groups or magicians/adventurers, so I thought maybe 'Bruderschaft' would be good? It does remind me of monasteries a bit but I think it might still come closest.
• senior/junior martial brother/sister: To make my life easier, I am thinking of just going with 'Bruder' and 'Schwester' here. That would fit in especially well if I used 'Bruderschaft' for the sects (Is it a 'Schwesternschaft' for all-female sects then? ) even though it reminds me even more of monks On the other hand, I'm not sure how to incorporate the senior/junior part or if I should at all. I guess it's not that bad to leave it out but if anyone can think of something, I'd also love to include it so it makes the hierarchy between everyone clearer.

Those are the ones that are giving me the worst headache. There are some more and some that will likely be more specialized than these but those would come in later so I can - and most definitely am - dragging my feet a bit longer there.


Edit: Some in-story context because I've been made aware that this would really help. It's a general run-down of everything I could think of right now that might be important but please ask if there is something more specific you'd like to know.

Spoiler: More context

Overall, it's pretty typical of xianxia stories: There's a good and evil faction which includes several sects each. Some sects will have specific names like abc temple or def order while others will literally just be named xyz sect. Some of the sects are banded together in an alliance. Sects are also generally sorted into different tiers depending on their strength.
Practitioners is the general term for all the not-so-common people and they can practice different things. One of those would be cultivation which makes them into their own thing where they will then be called cultivators. There are cultivators and other practitioners both in the sects (as disciples or in another position) and outside (as wandering cultivators/practitioners).

It doesn't all necessarily have to be a literal translation. I'm very happy to get a bit creative with this. It just needs to get the general point across (e.g., group of people learning the same thing in a fixed structure of disciples, elders, and a strict hierarchy) and should - if possible - not feel too awkward when read in German. Like, some more literal translations might make people think of something which will either seem hilarious or just downright weird.

 

[K5Rakitan]

I have some German heritage, but I don't know the language. I hear Grandpa distanced our family from our roots back in World War II because Germany was America's enemy, but Dad tried to pick some of it back up. And by some, I mean mainly the beer. I'm pretty much just American at this point.

Anyway, good luck!

 

[yansusustories]

I have some German heritage, but I don't know the language. I hear Grandpa distanced our family from our roots back in World War II because Germany was America's enemy, but Dad tried to pick some of it back up. And by some, I mean mainly the beer. I'm pretty much just American at this point.

Anyway, good luck!

Haha, thank you! And I guess beer is a big part of German culture indeed

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

- cultivation/cultivator: Kultivieren might sound strange, but considering cultivation is also a Latinism ...

- practioner: I would be tempted to use Praktikant as praktizieren resonates well. XD

- sect: Sekte is perfectly fine. Sekte derives from sequi, secutus and just means to follow a certain doctrine. It only got later on the bad connotation it has today.

senior/junior martial brother/sister: No idea. These are ceremonial titles, so maybe you could work with höhere, untere.

 

[Poleg]

Bruderschaft should be OK, think of something like the brotherhood of steel.

Sekte, everyone will think you talk about religion, something like bund should do better.

 

[Poleg]

Bruderschaft should be OK, think of something like the brotherhood of steel.

Sekte, everyone will think you talk about religion, something like bund should do better.

I actually live in Germany

 

[yansusustories]

practioner: I would be tempted to use Praktikant as praktizieren resonates wel

I really like praktizieren! Wouldn't make 'Praktikant' make you think of the, well, Praktikant of some company though? I feel like it's so much an everyday word that it might make people associate it with that too much and laugh inadvertantly

Sekte, everyone will think you talk about religion, something like bund should do better

Oh! Bund is a really good idea as well! And yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. As @Assurbanipal_II pointed out, the roots aren't negative per se but I'm afraid contemporary readers might have negative associations. In fact, maybe it would be good to use something different for the good and the evil sects based on that with naming the evil ones 'Sekten' and the good ones either 'Bruderschaft' or maybe 'Bund'

 

[Poleg]

You

I really like praktizieren! Wouldn't make 'Praktikant' make you think of the, well, Praktikant of some company though? I feel like it's so much an everyday word that it might make people associate it with that too much and laugh inadvertantly


Oh! Bund is a really good idea as well! And yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. As @Assurbanipal_II pointed out, the roots aren't negative per se but I'm afraid contemporary readers might have negative associations. In fact, maybe it would be good to use something different for the good and the evil sects based on that with naming the evil ones 'Sekten' and the good ones either 'Bruderschaft' or maybe 'Bund'

If you want you could post a few names (or DM) and I could help you with the translation of names.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I really like praktizieren! Wouldn't make 'Praktikant' make you think of the, well, Praktikant of some company though? I feel like it's so much an everyday word that it might make people associate it with that too much and laugh inadvertantly


Oh! Bund is a really good idea as well! And yeah, that's exactly what I'm worried about. As @Assurbanipal_II pointed out, the roots aren't negative per se but I'm afraid contemporary readers might have negative associations. In fact, maybe it would be good to use something different for the good and the evil sects based on that with naming the evil ones 'Sekten' and the good ones either 'Bruderschaft' or maybe 'Bund'

Bund is not a good choice. As it comes from foedus and is related to federal und studentischen Freundschaftsbünde des 19. Jh. Maybe something like Lehre, Schule is better.

 

[Poleg]

Bund is not a good choice. As it comes from foedus and is related to federal und studentischen Freundschaftsbünde des 19. Jh. Maybe something like Lehre, Schule is better.

Yeah, Schule could be a possibility. We really need more information about the names to give better translations,

 

[yansusustories]

You
If you want you could post a few names (or DM) and I could help you with the translation of names.

Thank you! I was actually thinking of leaving the names as is apart from the 'sect' part and similar. Like, in the story I would likely start with, there'd be stuff like the Yun Zou Sect, Hei Dian Sect, or the Liu He Alliance. So I was thinking of just translating the last part, e.g. making those the Yun Zou Bruderschaft/Bund, Hei Dian Sekte (if I'd really go with two different translations for sect depending on which faction they're from which is actually growing on me), and the Liu He Allianz.
Actually, I think with these three, I could imagine making it the Yun Zou Bruderschaft and the Liu He Bund (as in Verbund? - it's a group of sects that merged together once upon a time) because Allianz sounds strange and makes me think of the company That might also help with making each of them more memorable (as I think German readers might have some trouble with the names otherwise since translations with Chinese settings are a little rarer there?) even though it means diverging more from the original.

Bund is not a good choice. As it comes from foedus and is related to federal und studentischen Freundschaftsbünde des 19. Jh. Maybe something like Lehre, Schule is better.

You guys are killing me I'm honestly not sure about Schule but Lehre might be something I could incorporate somewhere. I think that could definitely work for stuff like cultivation practices or something?

Oh, and what I thought of regarding the Praktikant after pondering for a bit: Maybe 'Praktizierender' would be alright there? It reads a bit more complicated but might not have the associations Praktikant has.


Also, I'm really sorry for being so slow. I still have to finish three chapters today so I'm writing those at the side

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Thank you! I was actually thinking of leaving the names as is apart from the 'sect' part and similar. Like, in the story I would likely start with, there'd be stuff like the Yun Zou Sect, Hei Dian Sect, or the Liu He Alliance. So I was thinking of just translating the last part, e.g. making those the Yun Zou Bruderschaft/Bund, Hei Dian Sekte (if I'd really go with two different translations for sect depending on which faction they're from which is actually growing on me), and the Liu He Allianz.
Actually, I think with these three, I could imagine making it the Yun Zou Bruderschaft and the Liu He Bund (as in Verbund? - it's a group of sects that merged together once upon a time) because Allianz sounds strange and makes me think of the company That might also help with making each of them more memorable (as I think German readers might have some trouble with the names otherwise since translations with Chinese settings are a little rarer there?) even though it means diverging more from the original.



You guys are killing me I'm honestly not sure about Schule but Lehre might be something I could incorporate somewhere. I think that could definitely work for stuff like cultivation practices or something?

Oh, and what I thought of regarding the Praktikant after pondering for a bit: Maybe 'Praktizierender' would be alright there? It reads a bit more complicated but might not have the associations Praktikant has.


Also, I'm really sorry for being so slow. I still have to finish three chapters today so I'm writing those at the side

Lehre might work, as sects are less organised institutions and more schools of thoughts, or techniques. But in any case, I would strongly advise against Bund. It just gives the wrong vives ala Bundestag, Bundesrepublik, etc.

As for Praktikant. As I enjoyed a classical education, I see nothing wrong with Praktikant per se. To say "praktizieren" is still quite common im medizinischen Berreich und in der Juristerei. Praktikant sounds just the logical noun to me.

 

[tiaf]

Praktizierender sounds good (although a bit of pain to say), but better than Praktikant (reminds me of my compulsory Praktikum in 9th class)

Schule and Lehre should be used depending on context imo.

Btw, aren’t there any German Xianxia translations? Not that I know any since I don’t read German translations even though I’m German.

Edit: Bruderschaft sounds like women aren’t welcome. Ngl, I have to think of Blutschwüre and stupid rituals.

 

[yansusustories]

Lehre might work, as sects are less organised institutions and more schools of thoughts, or techniques. But in any case, I would strongly advise against Bund. It just gives the wrong vives ala Bundestag, Bundesrepublik, etc.

As for Praktikant. As I enjoyed a classical education, I see nothing wrong with Praktikant per se. To say "praktizieren" is still quite common im medizinischen Berreich und in der Juristerei. Praktikant sounds just the logical noun to me.

Not even Verbund? Would you say Allianz would be better then? Or can you think of yet another word for that?
And yeah, I'm quite happy with praktizieren. I don't think that's so strange either. With Praktikant though, I would have the same association as @tiaf and I'm worried it might be the same for others which is what makes this whole thing so hard

Btw, aren’t there any German Xianxia translations? Not that I know any since I don’t read German translations even though I’m German.

None that I have seen. But I do have to admit that I haven't read anything in German for several years either. Maybe that's why everything sounds increasingly strange to me as well

 

[Poleg]

Thank you! I was actually thinking of leaving the names as is apart from the 'sect' part and similar. Like, in the story I would likely start with, there'd be stuff like the Yun Zou Sect, Hei Dian Sect, or the Liu He Alliance. So I was thinking of just translating the last part, e.g. making those the Yun Zou Bruderschaft/Bund, Hei Dian Sekte (if I'd really go with two different translations for sect depending on which faction they're from which is actually growing on me), and the Liu He Allianz.
Actually, I think with these three, I could imagine making it the Yun Zou Bruderschaft and the Liu He Bund (as in Verbund? - it's a group of sects that merged together once upon a time) because Allianz sounds strange and makes me think of the company That might also help with making each of them more memorable (as I think German readers might have some trouble with the names otherwise since translations with Chinese settings are a little rarer there?) even though it means diverging more from the original.



You guys are killing me I'm honestly not sure about Schule but Lehre might be something I could incorporate somewhere. I think that could definitely work for stuff like cultivation practices or something?

Oh, and what I thought of regarding the Praktikant after pondering for a bit: Maybe 'Praktizierender' would be alright there? It reads a bit more complicated but might not have the associations Praktikant has.


Also, I'm really sorry for being so slow. I still have to finish three chapters today so I'm writing those at the side

Lehrling could be incorporated into the martial arts setting, like the '' Der Meister/ Lehrer lehrt/zeigt dem Lehrling wie man die Kraft aus seinem inneren herauslockt''.


Praktizierender is more like for example,, im Westland, wo die antike kampfkunst noch praktiziert wird.''
Praktikant is like the guy above me said something most Germans associate with school.

Bund should be usable,,Der Liu he Bund bildete sich aus mehreren kleineren Sekten / Schulen die sich zusammensetzten / zusammen geschlossen haben um den anderen Bruderschaften entgegen treten zu können. ''

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Not even Verbund? Would you say Allianz would be better then? Or can you think of yet another word for that?
And yeah, I'm quite happy with praktizieren. I don't think that's so strange either. With Praktikant though, I would have the same association as @tiaf and I'm worried it might be the same for others which is what makes this whole thing so hard


None that I have seen. But I do have to admit that I haven't read anything in German for several years either. Maybe that's why everything sounds increasingly strange to me as well

Verbund sounds to me like Handwerkerdachverband. So no, absolutely not. Verbund der Sparkassen.

 

[AlohNoah]

Peace.
Im from germany, and I'll try to give you a few suggestions.
Cultivator/cultivation would probably translate to "Kultivierender/Kultivierung".
You could translate practioner as "Praktizierender" which is way better than "Praktikant", in my opinion.
Sect could be "Sekte", "Bund" or "Fraktion".
For junior/senior brother/sister theres no proper german translation.

 

[yansusustories]

Lehrling could be incorporated into the martial arts setting, like the '' Der Meister/ Lehrer lehrt/zeigt dem Lehrling wie man die Kraft aus seinem inneren herauslockt''.

Uh! I really like that! I actually didn't think about disciples and such yet but that would likely be a good way to translate that

Praktizierender is more like for example,, im Westland, wo die antike kampfkunst noch praktiziert wird.''
Praktikant is like the guy above me said something most Germans associate with school.

So I guess we're ruling Praktikant out completely then. Praktizierender is actually growing on me a bit despite being a mouthful because, in one of the stories, the lore is that cultivators are basically one group of practitioners that, well, practice cultivation while others would practice the way of whatever. In that situation, Praktizierender might sound broader than martial artist so might fit better. In the other stories, practitioners and cultivators are more or less interchangeable since it's never really addressed so I could go with something easier there I think

Verbund der Sparkassen

Sect could be "Sekte", "Bund" or "Fraktion".

Oh! I really like Fraktion as an idea. Although that might work best for the factions maybe? Like, there's a good and evil faction which have several sects each.


Also, I'm slowly realizing that maybe I should have incorporated more information on how all of that works in the stories in the OP because that really changes it. Didn't think of that before

 

[Poleg]

Uh! I really like that! I actually didn't think about disciples and such yet but that would likely be a good way to translate that


So I guess we're ruling Praktikant out completely then. Praktizierender is actually growing on me a bit despite being a mouthful because, in one of the stories, the lore is that cultivators are basically one group of practitioners that, well, practice cultivation while others would practice the way of whatever. In that situation, Praktizierender might sound broader than martial artist so might fit better. In the other stories, practitioners and cultivators are more or less interchangeable since it's never really addressed so I could go with something easier there I think






Oh! I really like Fraktion as an idea. Although that might work best for the factions maybe? Like, there's a good and evil faction which have several sects each.


Also, I'm slowly realizing that maybe I should have incorporated more information on how all of that works in the stories in the OP because that really changes it. Didn't think of that before

Verbund is a bad choice, bund should be OK though

 

[tiaf]

Actually, Germans used to call other fellows Bruder or Schwester, when patriotism wasn’t associated with NS.

Members of Bruderschaften and Schwesternschaften might still call each other so.