Changing themes in genres - Gender Bender

[Cauldrons]

This is somewhat of a weird topic to bring up but it's something I've noticed happening over the years as I've been reading. Obviously I'm a fan of gender bender novels and have been for a while but the topics have changed from what it used to be. Used to be that gender bender comics had no real concept of 'trans' or at the least the way we think about it now. Used to be it would fall into one of two categories (in the majority) 1 - Oh? I'm a girl now whatever and 2 - Exploring that new gender(usually a romance). The main difference in my opinion with the popularization of the trans movement more stories are about the psychological element of everything and (at least in my opinion) focus just on that aspect.
tldr old novels focused on more physical things with the gender change as a backdrop while newer ones focus on the mental side of things.

Now I admit this might just be an opinion and the old themes still exist and I'm sure the 'newer' themes existed back then too. I'm just making the observation that the 'newer' themes are much more prevalent than they used to be. Personally I prefer the older stories since I while I like gender bender's I don't like it controlling every other aspect of the novel I feel like It's better off being a supporting structure as compared to the main pillar of a story. Lastly how would you describe the differences between the old and new stories because while I think I did a good job with a blanket overview of the genre I spat this out in like 20 minutes without a review.

 

[SternenklarenRitter]

I suppose you could say that the current trend focuses on the experience of gender, while the focus used to be more about the cultural and social aspects of gender. I find the cultural nuances of gender to be particularly engaging, but some older works hardly even mention the experience of gender, which makes them feel a little incomplete to a 'modern consideration.' Now that we have developed more language to describe gender and sexuality, compared to maybe even just 5 years ago, I suppose I like the modern type better.

 

[RiddleBuns]

there's also definitely the aspect to it that most of the "modern" gender bender stories are told by trans authors, who want to write about their experiences in a fantastical fashion hence the in many cases magical gender bending. So personally I do think it is just an issue of trans authors who have grown up on the older gender bender stories, now making their own with their own flavoring which then naturally includes a trans narrative

 

[foxoftheasterisk]

As a trans person myself, the "old" style always felt lacking to me, and that has only become more noticeable as the "new" style has become more available. To me it kinda feels like, why would you write a gender bender story if you're not gonna have Gender Feels in it? (Also I love me some vicarious gender euphoria)

I don't like it controlling every other aspect of the novel I feel like It's better off being a supporting structure as compared to the main pillar of a story.

I can understand this, but personally I feel the exact opposite way. Like it doesn't have to be the only thing going on, but if I read a gender bender story where the gender isn't at least a main pillar of the story, I'm just going to be disappointed.

(Also fwiw, at least here on scribblehub, I believe this shift is largely caused by an influx of trans writers in recent years from another site/sites that have been abandoned due to some bad management choices. I can't recall the details though.)

 

[BlackKnightX]

This is somewhat of a weird topic to bring up but it's something I've noticed happening over the years as I've been reading. Obviously I'm a fan of gender bender novels and have been for a while but the topics have changed from what it used to be. Used to be that gender bender comics had no real concept of 'trans' or at the least the way we think about it now. Used to be it would fall into one of two categories (in the majority) 1 - Oh? I'm a girl now whatever and 2 - Exploring that new gender(usually a romance). The main difference in my opinion with the popularization of the trans movement more stories are about the psychological element of everything and (at least in my opinion) focus just on that aspect.
tldr old novels focused on more physical things with the gender change as a backdrop while newer ones focus on the mental side of things.

Now I admit this might just be an opinion and the old themes still exist and I'm sure the 'newer' themes existed back then too. I'm just making the observation that the 'newer' themes are much more prevalent than they used to be. Personally I prefer the older stories since I while I like gender bender's I don't like it controlling every other aspect of the novel I feel like It's better off being a supporting structure as compared to the main pillar of a story. Lastly how would you describe the differences between the old and new stories because while I think I did a good job with a blanket overview of the genre I spat this out in like 20 minutes without a review.

Depends on the realism, I think. If you wanna write something more realistic, then the psychological aspects are in order. It just has to be. But if you want something light and fun and whimsical, then the gender-bending plays well as a comedy.

I tend to insert myself into the protagonist’s shoe in every novel I’ve read, so back when I just started reading web novels, I didn’t spare a glance at the novels with female protagonists, simply because I found it harder to insert myself into her shoe.

But then I came across the gender-bender novel—I think it was “Life With Tail” in the Novel Update. I read it and found it really fun. It feels like a breath of fresh air when you’re a girl who’s in love with another girl. It just gives off that strange intimacy. You just feel closer to the love interests for some reason—definitely closer than most Japanese web novels I’d been reading back then where the male protagonist is too wimpy and gets bullied constantly by the love interests.

 

[foxoftheasterisk]

Literally every gender bender story is propaganda for degenerates and vices but the new ones are just more obviously degenerate and sexualize children into various kinks.

Hey yo what the fuck. My existence is not a kink or degeneracy.

It feels like a breath of fresh air when you’re a girl who’s in love with another girl. It just gives off that strange intimacy. You just feel closer to the love interests for some reason

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but... this sounds very similar to my experience, and the experiences of other trans lesbians. Have you considered whether you might be trans?

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

Hey yo what the fuck. My existence is not a kink or degeneracy.



Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but... this sounds very similar to my experience, and the experiences of other trans lesbians. Have you considered whether you might be trans?

No. Yes.

 

[Emi_the_Fairy]

Literally every gender bender story is propaganda for degenerates and vices but the new ones are just more obviously degenerate and sexualize children into various kinks.

What the actual heck is this comment? In what way is it 'propaganda?' And like foxoftheasterisk said, our existences aren't degenerate or a kink.


Anyway, as someone writing trans themed fantasy stories, part of it for me is making the kind of story I would have liked to see as a kid. Stories that would make me feel accepted, validated, and seen. And, like foxoftheasterisk said, I found a lot of 'old story' types to be really lacking. They would often make it into a joke and mock the desires that many trans people have, and perpetuate a lot of harmful ideas about trans people. A lot of the more recent stuff focuses a lot more on the emotional catharsis and finding a place to belong, which I find highly enjoyable myself.

 

[longer]

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but... this sounds very similar to my experience, and the experiences of other trans lesbians. Have you considered whether you might be trans?

I think there's a much higher chance that op is just sick and tired of Japanese male rom com protagonist that have the social skills of a broken fax machine.

 

[K5Rakitan]

Read new books but keep the old!

 

[TrismegistusShandy]

I've basically gone through a similar change in my own writing over the years as I figured out more about my gender and learned more about other trans people's experiences. I started writing gender-bender stories decades ago, and first posted one online in 2007. Over time I started having more trans characters in them and trying to avoid the more unsavory gender-bender tropes, like compulsory heterosexuality. There wasn't a specific cutoff where I realized "Oh, I'm trans, I"ll write about trans characters instead of cis characters getting gender-bent," but a gradual process of including more trans characters and themes in my work.

The main advantage of trans fiction over older gender-bender fiction is that it's more true to human nature. If a cis person were to get transformed into a body of the opposite sex, they would suffer dysphoria indefinitely like an untreated trans person (which they would basically be). The older gender-bender trope of "cis man becomes woman, suffers distress over it at first but then gets to like it and declines the opportunity to turn back" is not very true to human psychology, compared to the trans plots of "cis man gets transformed, is now basically a trans man, eventually starts transitioning back mundanely" or more commonly and happily "trans woman (possibly unaware) gets transformed, is euphoric".

One of the earlier posters said that gender bender is more suited to comedy, but trans plots have plenty of potential for comedy -- see e.g. "Trolls and Tribulations" by rooibos_chai on this site or the currently ongoing "Kisses, Curses and Love" by FinallyFeminine.

 

[Cipiteca396]

2 - Exploring that new gender(usually a romance).

I think the new stories are rather an extension of this than a new category.
Older works really did just look at physical changes, with a tiny glimpse of the psychological side of things due to lack of knowledge.
As that line of thought was explored further and further with every story, it evolved and became more and more psychological.
You can only describe the physical changes in so many ways before it becomes bland, but the way people think is always fresh and new.

 

[BenJepheneT]

it's a simple matter of preference. it's like how fans of old isekai would claim how they're focused on the aspect of travelling to a different world with a heavy emphasis on world-building and politics and thrilling intrigues and how the latter entries to the genre just have the wish fulfilment aspects and none of the charm. not pointing fingers; just saying that everyone has their idea of fun on a book.

i don't have much to say besides what has already been said, but what I'll add is this: make yer own. you're in a writing forum. write.

 

[Sabruness]

there's also definitely the aspect to it that most of the "modern" gender bender stories are told by trans authors, who want to write about their experiences in a fantastical fashion hence the in many cases magical gender bending. So personally I do think it is just an issue of trans authors who have grown up on the older gender bender stories, now making their own with their own flavoring which then naturally includes a trans narrative

i agree with this. rather than 'new' and old', it's more like the GB genre diverged into two sub-genres. Those being:
- 'classic' GB where it's just a physical thing (basically the stereotype of GB stories)
and
- Trans GB which delves more into the psychology and real issues that affect trans people (though usually involving either magical or technological means for the actual transition).

I look at it as the 'classic' GB is like fast food, something you consume that's not great but can fill you, whereas Trans GB is more like a proper diverse meal.
One minor annoyance i have with some (only a minority really) of trans GB stories is when you can feel the author's more extreme(?) beliefs and biases injected sorta unorganically into the story which, in my view, upsets the overall tone and feel of the story. Most of the trans GB stories i've read do manage to explore and enlighten on issues organically without coming off as an , for lack of a more fitting description, ideological propaganda piece.

 

[CL]

One minor annoyance i have with some (only a minority really) of trans GB stories is when you can feel the author's more extreme(?) beliefs and biases injected sorta unorganically into the story which, in my view, upsets the overall tone and feel of the story. Most of the trans GB stories i've read do manage to explore and enlighten on issues organically without coming off as an , for lack of a more fitting description, ideological propaganda piece.

This does frustrate me a little as I have come across quite a few that have clashed with my immersion, but I did discover a way to get over that break. Now the following may sound flippant, but I'm going to be serious. I look at it this way: these authors are the highest authority of the stories, their worlds, that they have and are still creating. If they want to inject beliefs into their stories, they can and, from plenty of evidence to go by, they have. If I get pulled out of my immersion, then that is on them. It's apparent they wanted me to stop and think about this exceptional behavior or perspective. I just wish, as you mentioned about it being "unorganically" (is that a word?), that they had seen a better way to lay it out rather than stuffing it in the story like an uneven lump.

I feel a lot of what has already been said is what was needed to be said in this thread. I can only mention that @foxoftheasterisk is correct on why there's so many trans authors here. I've personally experienced one event of mismanagement on TG Storytime, I've heard about Royal Road's management not acting when there were good reasons to act, and I also know that there were talks between a few of the original first members of ScribbleHub that paved the way for those trans authors to come here. But, yes, those are many of the reasons as to why there are two kinds of GB stories here. We've got those members who started up their stories that had been inspired by their time on Novel Updates and, then, we have those members who came here and started up their stories with their own experiences being the inspiration. One came from fictional GB and the other came from real life TG.

Notice I mention them as "GB" and "TG" as if they are different. They are not the same. If there is transgender themes in a genderbender story, the author should have that tagged in properly. That would keep the two from being mistaken for us readers searching for either.

Please do note (and this is not relative to the thread's topic): These authors are not the highest authority on ScribbleHub. There are rules and Rulers to smack those naughty hands if they get out of hand. I wanted this stated here because of another thread's topic about prohibited themes.

 

[BlackKnightX]

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into things, but... this sounds very similar to my experience, and the experiences of other trans lesbians. Have you considered whether you might be trans?

I don’t mind being a girl, really, but I still like women. Though I have to say, it’s quite convenient having a dick. So I think I’m good for now, thanks~

 

[Emi_the_Fairy]

I don’t mind being a girl, really, but I still like women. Though I have to say, it’s quite convenient having a dick. So I think I’m good for now, thanks~

Just as a quick note here.

Plenty of trans women are lesbians or bi. I myself am a trans lesbian for instance.

Also, the extent to which someone chooses to transition can vary. Plenty of trans women start hrt and choose not to get GRS, and are happy with their dicks.

It's a common misconception, which is why I wanted to bring it up.

 

[SakeVision]

I prefer old, because the new ones aren't tackling transgender issues neither realistically nor seriously.

 

[AliceShiki]

I don't think this is a new/old thingy. You just happen to be seeing the stuff that explores the gender issues now.

In any case, I prefer gender benders that take themselves seriously and that actively show the struggles that the genderbent character goes through. That's the whole reason why I fell in love with gender bender in the first place, so it's definitely not a new thing.

Sure, romance is often times a part of this narrative that helps the character better understand themselves, but it's just a part of it, not the whole.

 

[AryaX]

I don't know about "Old" and "New" stories ? Or if there is any such difference ?

Sure... The first GB stories I saw or read were anime, manga and japanese lightnovels... and they were mostly comedy... with guys being turned into girls against their will... effeminate guys insisting they were, or wanted to be manly men even as they were turned into cute girls... or something...

Since then I've read plenty of GB webnovels... Many of which have main characters who were originally male, but actually wanted/asked to turn into girls... and I generally prefer it that way... or... at the very least for them find that they are "happy" with it...

But I suspect most if not all new anime, manga and japanese light novels with GB theme, follow the same old involunary comedy GB formula...