Character icons as dialogue tags?

[owotrucked]

I would like to evaluate the impact of characters icons as a replacement for dialogue tags.

Samples

Spoiler: Example with character icons

Lorely could only bite her lips in frustration, longing for the beautiful mistress with whom she used to share passionate nights.

“How about I take Mistress outside to wash a bit?”


Violet made up an excuse and walked away from Lorely’s discomforting gaze.

“Whatever, I am too busy on inspection today.”


The harpy silently followed her mistress to make sure she performed her duties.


Violet, the sovereign of the newly made dungeon, was currently checking the status of the various tasks she had ordered.

“I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”

“What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”

“It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”

“You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”

“I apologize, Mistress.”


Their mission was to dig a tunnel connecting an isolated crystal mine to the western dungeon citadel Rustvalley, so that they could lay waste on the despicable worshippers of the Light.

Picking the short end of the straw, she was sent to take charge of the mine’s side with a pack of troglodyte Pawns and three heroic Rooks.

“Mistress, the warren isn’t that way...”

Spoiler: Sample without character icons

Lorely could only bite her lips in frustration, longing for the beautiful mistress with whom she used to share passionate nights.
“How about I take Mistress outside to wash a bit?” she asked.


Violet made up an excuse and walked away from Lorely’s discomforting gaze. “Whatever, I am too busy on inspection today.”


The harpy silently followed her mistress to make sure she performed her duties.


Violet, the sovereign of the newly made dungeon, was currently checking the status of the various tasks she had ordered.


Lorely: “I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”


Violet: “What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”


Lorely: “It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”


Violet: “You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”


Lorely: “I apologize, Mistress.”


Their mission was to dig a tunnel connecting an isolated crystal mine to the western dungeon citadel Rustvalley, so that they could lay waste on the despicable worshippers of the Light.

Picking the short end of the straw, she was sent to take charge of the mine’s side with a pack of troglodyte Pawns and three heroic Rooks.


Lorely: “Mistress, the warren isn’t that way...”

Evaluation of your reading experience
Please tell me what you thought abouts those samples. To guide your answer, here are my main concerns:

Impact on reading ease
I want to calibrate the rate of information so that a reader who has spent a long day at work and is running on his last two brain cells can read without too much effort. That's why all dialogue lines must be explicitely tied to a character, without the reader needing to check the context.

Impact on focus
My aim with dialogue tags is to let the reader focus on the content of dialogue, and avoid distracting descriptions that would lose a tired reader. However, portrait icons could just distract the reader from the content.

Experience so far
I have introduced character icons in the middle of my story (an interlude in chapter 26, and from chapter 41), and no reader has complained so far.

However, after updating my prologue, I had a feedback of a new reader that the portrait icons worsen the reading experience. I do know someone else who feel that portrait icons are distracting.

Speculation and suggestions
I wonder if the gradual introduction of character icons help the readers to get familiarized with the VN-like style and help them not paying too much attention to them. Or maybe my long time readers are too deep in to be bothered by the icons to complain.

In order to improve the reading experience, I can see a few possibilities:

- Gradual introduction of the character icons (slowly increase their usage throughout the chapters)
- Downsize the icons, so that readers only see the general shape of the face without seeing details
- Decrease the frequency of the icons, like limiting to 5 per 1000 words

I am open to other suggestions to improve reader experience.

Thank you for your inputs,
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞trucked

 

[Pxan02]

They are great! Just a few tips:

Scale them down, use neutral and cold colors (that orange/red is very distracting), and limit their use.

In a word: you already know what to do.

 

[KiraMinoru]

I would like to evaluate the impact of characters icons as a replacement for dialogue tags.

Samples

Spoiler: Example with character icons

Lorely could only bite her lips in frustration, longing for the beautiful mistress with whom she used to share passionate nights.

“How about I take Mistress outside to wash a bit?”


Violet made up an excuse and walked away from Lorely’s discomforting gaze.

“Whatever, I am too busy on inspection today.”


The harpy silently followed her mistress to make sure she performed her duties.


Violet, the sovereign of the newly made dungeon, was currently checking the status of the various tasks she had ordered.

“I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”

“What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”

“It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”

“You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”

“I apologize, Mistress.”


Their mission was to dig a tunnel connecting an isolated crystal mine to the western dungeon citadel Rustvalley, so that they could lay waste on the despicable worshippers of the Light.

Picking the short end of the straw, she was sent to take charge of the mine’s side with a pack of troglodyte Pawns and three heroic Rooks.

“Mistress, the warren isn’t that way...”

Spoiler: Sample without character icons

Lorely could only bite her lips in frustration, longing for the beautiful mistress with whom she used to share passionate nights.
“How about I take Mistress outside to wash a bit?” she asked.


Violet made up an excuse and walked away from Lorely’s discomforting gaze. “Whatever, I am too busy on inspection today.”


The harpy silently followed her mistress to make sure she performed her duties.


Violet, the sovereign of the newly made dungeon, was currently checking the status of the various tasks she had ordered.


Lorely: “I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”


Violet: “What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”


Lorely: “It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”


Violet: “You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”


Lorely: “I apologize, Mistress.”


Their mission was to dig a tunnel connecting an isolated crystal mine to the western dungeon citadel Rustvalley, so that they could lay waste on the despicable worshippers of the Light.

Picking the short end of the straw, she was sent to take charge of the mine’s side with a pack of troglodyte Pawns and three heroic Rooks.


Lorely: “Mistress, the warren isn’t that way...”

Evaluation of your reading experience
Please tell me what you thought abouts those samples. To guide your answer, here are my main concerns:

Impact on reading ease
I want to calibrate the rate of information so that a reader who has spent a long day at work and is running on his last two brain cells can read without too much effort. That's why all dialogue lines must be explicitely tied to a character, without the reader needing to check the context.

Impact on focus
My aim with dialogue tags is to let the reader focus on the content of dialogue, and avoid distracting descriptions that would lose a tired reader. However, portrait icons could just distract the reader from the content.

Experience so far
I have introduced character icons in the middle of my story (an interlude in chapter 26, and from chapter 41), and no reader has complained so far.

However, after updating my prologue, I had a feedback of a new reader that the portrait icons worsen the reading experience. I do know someone else who feel that portrait icons are distracting.

Speculation and suggestions
I wonder if the gradual introduction of character icons help the readers to get familiarized with the VN-like style and help them not paying too much attention to them. Or maybe my long time readers are too deep in to be bothered by the icons to complain.

In order to improve the reading experience, I can see a few possibilities:

- Gradual introduction of the character icons (slowly increase their usage throughout the chapters)
- Downsize the icons, so that readers only see the general shape of the face without seeing details
- Decrease the frequency of the icons, like limiting to 5 per 1000 words

I am open to other suggestions to improve reader experience.

Thank you for your inputs,
(☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞trucked

Personally I’d never do this. It’d just be an eyesore when I’m reading. I’d rather allow a character’s personality, speech tendencies, intonation, pauses, little nuances make it clear who is speaking and when it’s not that obvious with all those little subtle cues use dialogue tags in conjunction with any actions or body language being expressed during that dialogue line.

 

[BlackKnightX]

It’s a little weird at first, but after I get used to it, it flows really well. Though, I like traditional dialogue more, mostly because I’m used to it. You know, like;

Ben approached Lucy and offered his hand. “We meet, at last,” he said. “I’m Ben. Ben SixtyNine.”
Lucy shook his hand and looked at him with a smile. “Lucy,” she said, “just Lucy.”

See what I mean? It doesn’t require any afford to read because everything is in the line, and it flows. I love it more when the story read like someone talking, like I’m listening to a storyteller telling me a story directly.

Though, if you want to get more creative and write in your style then go ahead. You do you!

And, as to answer your question, I like character icons more since it gives off the feeling of reading Visual Novels.

 

[greyblob]

It's an interesting experience, might overload some people, but it should be fine once they get used to it. And the sneaky facial expressions changes are a nice touch - they're definitely a plus.

Try scaling the pictures down a bit and centralizing the text.

 

[owotrucked]

They are great! Just a few tips:

Scale them down, use neutral and cold colors (that orange/red is very distracting), and limit their use.

In a word: you already know what to do.

Thank you for the feedback

Personally I’d never do this. It’d just be an eyesore when I’m reading. I’d rather allow a character’s personality, speech tendencies, intonation, pauses, little nuances make it clear who is speaking and when it’s not that obvious with all those little subtle cues use dialogue tags in conjunction with any actions or body language being expressed during that dialogue line.

That's an artistic/writing choice that actually requires skills, so that would make you a good author. Yes, it's an eyesore to some readers. I've decided that if more than 40% readers are hindered by the dialogue icons, I should try another approach.

Ben approached Lucy and offered his hand. “We meet, at last,” he said. “I’m Ben. Ben SixtyNine.”
Lucy shook his hand and looked at him with a smile. “Lucy,” she said, “just Lucy.”

Yes, your example is clear and easy to read.

After reading Kasumi's tutorials, I've been aware that I can just ignore dialogue tags by using actions. However, when you read her last example with every layer of description, there's almost two or three sentences of descriptions between each lines, which made me feel horrible as reader. By the time a new dialogue line appear, I forgot the previous line xD.

That's why, I think it's the author's responsibility to calibrate the levels of narration/dialogue as the story goes. I'll try to lean into the style you're suggesting when I feel that it's relevant.

It's an interesting experience, might overload some people, but it should be fine once they get used to it. And the sneaky facial expressions changes are a nice touch - they're definitely a plus.

Try scaling the pictures down a bit and centralizing the text.

Thank you, I'll try that!

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

With the portrait tags imo you should just make a visual novel with that. I forgot but there was that one app I downloaded that has a similar style, was pretty fun.
Though I guess there's nothing wrong with using those, it just feels uncanny seeing so many pictures in a web novel. I can get used to it though.

 

[BlackKnightX]

Yes, your example is clear and easy to read.

After reading Kasumi's tutorials, I've been aware that I can just ignore dialogue tags by using actions. However, when you read her last example with every layer of description, there's almost two or three sentences of descriptions between each lines, which made me feel horrible as reader. By the time a new dialogue line appear, I forgot the previous line xD.

That's why, I think it's the author's responsibility to calibrate the levels of narration/dialogue as the story goes. I'll try to lean into the style you're suggesting when I feel that it's relevant.

It’s actually nothing fancy at all, it’s just a traditional style. Though, that’s why it’s so good because people are already used to it.

Believe it or not, before I settle on this style, I once tried to do what you do. I wanna write a story that moves fast, like when you’re watching a movie or reading a screenplay, but then later I found out that it wasn’t quite enjoyable to read.

For me, a well written story has this thing called “voice” in it. Put it simply, it’s the voice of the storyteller talking to you through the page.

Once you write like you’re talking, the sentences will flow really well, and isn’t that what you’re aiming for in the first place?

 

[SakeVision]

it's cool but make them smaller

 

[owotrucked]

With the portrait tags imo you should just make a visual novel with that. I forgot but there was that one app I downloaded that has a similar style, was pretty fun.
Though I guess there's nothing wrong with using those, it just feels uncanny seeing so many pictures in a web novel. I can get used to it though.

Thank you. I like visual novels, but it requires a bit of work to make good background. If I make a visual novel, I'd rather use large portraits (rather than icons) in the style of Doki Doki Litterature Club or Punishing Gray Raven.

Believe it or not, before I settle on this style, I once tried to do what you do. I wanna write a story that moves fast, like when you’re watching a movie or reading a screenplay, but then later I found out that it wasn’t quite enjoyable to read.

For me, a well written story has this thing called “voice” in it. Put it simply, it’s the voice of the storyteller talking to you through the page.

Once you write like you’re talking, the sentences will flow really well, and isn’t that what you’re aiming for in the first place?

Yeah, I'm a beginner writer, it's my first story and I'm encountering universal problematics of writing, trying to find an answer that fits me. I might slowly converge towards similar answers as you

it's cool but make them smaller

Ok

 

[greyblob]

Thank you, I'll try that!

Actually now that I think about it, top placement would be the most optimal. It's how most videogames do it, and readers would be more accustomed to seeing it that way.
You could also add actions or a few more sentences next to the pictures that way.

 

[Arkus86]

I agree with others that you should scale down the images quite a bit.

I would also advice placing the text under the icons, so the icons do not displace the start of the lines.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Impact on reading ease
I want to calibrate the rate of information so that a reader who has spent a long day at work and is running on his last two brain cells can read without too much effort. That's why all dialogue lines must be explicitely tied to a character, without the reader needing to check the context.

Technically, I love this idea. I hate reading stories where I have to do calculus to try and figure out who the heck is talking, so having an obvious indicator is nice. However, I think the story should be able to stand on it's own... So make sure you don't rely on the pictures to tell people whose paragraph they're reading.

Basically, if someone sets their browser so pictures won't load, they should still be able to get a decent reading experience.

Impact on focus
My aim with dialogue tags is to let the reader focus on the content of dialogue, and avoid distracting descriptions that would lose a tired reader. However, portrait icons could just distract the reader from the content.

To be honest, these images are far too large. Maybe make them small, but with the option to expand them if you really want people to see the details.

However, again, the main problem is that you shouldn't rely on them. They can definitely make it easier for someone who isn't really paying attention to not get hung up on details... But that doesn't mean you shouldn't have details at all.

In fact, having the pictures means you can afford to add more details without the reader deciding to clock out. They have an obvious reference, after all. If they're reading about Violet's ethereal eyes suddenly flashing in wrathful warning, then they can just look to the left and see it happening. That means they're less likely to get lost, and more likely to immerse themselves. But that can't happen if there's nothing to immerse themselves in.

I have introduced character icons in the middle of my story (an interlude in chapter 26, and from chapter 41), and no reader has complained so far.

SH readers don't complain about anything. They just read it and move on to the next story, or they read it and decide they don't want to read any more. It's kind of depressing, but at least you don't have to worry about getting shredded for no reason.

---

My main takeaway from this is "Oh mar gar, I loved Neverwinter Nights, back when computers came with disk drives!"

Also, have an icon for the Narrator. It needs to be really subtle though, since you don't want it to detract from the story. And small. I can't emphasize that enough.

 

[owotrucked]

Actually now that I think about it, top placement would be the most optimal. It's how most videogames do it, and readers would be more accustomed to seeing it that way.
You could also add actions or a few more sentences next to the pictures that way.

I don't really see how it works in text.
Can you show a screenshot of a game that do that?

Do you mean something like that?

Spoiler: test centered/ icons on top

“I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”

“What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”

“It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”

“You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”

“I apologize, Mistress.”​

Spoiler: test aligned left/ icons on top

“I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”

“What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”

“It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”

“You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”

“I apologize, Mistress.”

Spoiler: test aligned left/ icons inline

“I’m eager to see how much progress we made on the tunnel!”

“What the... We’re so behind the deadline! It’s hopeless! Why would you enjoy seeing it?”

“It’s okay, it’s the Shadow lord’s fault for sending us without enough resources.”

“You fool! The sole reason I was created was to serve the Shadow lord! Don’t say such rude things.”

“I apologize, Mistress.”

I would also advice placing the text under the icons, so the icons do not displace the start of the lines.

Interesting idea! I'll try it.

In fact, having the pictures means you can afford to add more details without the reader deciding to clock out. They have an obvious reference, after all. If they're reading about Violet's ethereal eyes suddenly flashing in wrathful warning, then they can just look to the left and see it happening. That means they're less likely to get lost, and more likely to immerse themselves. But that can't happen if there's nothing to immerse themselves in.

I didn't think of it... I was in the mindset that I should avoid redundant information. Thanks!

 

[Cipiteca396]

Do you mean something like that?

Spoiler

I think they meant something like this?
Where the text is using the image as a shoulder to lean on.

 

[SakeVision]

Spoiler

View attachment 9945

I think they meant something like this?
Where the text is using the image as a shoulder to lean on.

consider umineko transcript, I prefer it that way

 

[owotrucked]

I think they meant something like this?
Where the text is using the image as a shoulder to lean on.

That looks difficult to do in SH editor.

consider umineko transcript, I prefer it that way

Yo, I like this! I found the transcript and I'm going to read it!

With a fresh eye on this, I realize that portrait icons aren't so disrupting, and fits my taste perfectly!

I'll redesign the icon and make it around 60x60px like that transcript.

 

[greyblob]

Can you show a screenshot of a game that do that?

Made in 15 seconds on paint, but I think you can get the picture.

 

[ConcubusBunny]

Yo owo truck this looks cool although most readers are used to the no-image dialogue version, this saves a lot of time, but just don't overcrowd your chapter with images otherwise you might as well draw a comic.
This is still a good idea considering you make enough for each character's creation or would you just use the base portrait but still put their emotions and actions next to their portrait? for the ones that you've not given a specific action for.
I'd try doing this to a lesser degree though, probably in the future or maybe if I make E-books, but right now I need to work on speed and time management. Best of luck to you creator of bland protagonists.

 

[BenJepheneT]

it's disorienting on first glance but i'm sure there's a reader out there that will eventually get used to it or even grow fond of it.

if you ask me, it's best if you find a way to line the text with the image. it just seems like a pain in the ass to read. guess your problem now is just the format of it.