Do you pull your stories to publish on Amazon?

[MaraDarks]

I have seen many authors seem to 'pull' their stories past a certain treshold in order to sell their content on Amazon (or other sites). Is this alright with readers? Do you think it is okay to cull 95% of a published book in order to sell it online? I'm new to this practice and it got me a bit stumped.

Pic unrelated.

 

[Erios909]

It doesn't matter if it is 'alright' with readers. Some will be salty and you'll get backlash, but if you want to make a living from your writing instead of it being a game/hobby, you need to monetize, and the audience/income on amazon can be much larger. You're looking at 5-6 figures for selfpub or indie publishing on KU with a relatively popular story. That's enough to become a full time writer, which many people aspire to do.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

If the readers really care about the book they can buy it.

 

[MaraDarks]

It doesn't matter if it is 'alright' with readers. Some will be salty and you'll get backlash, but if you want to make a living from your writing instead of it being a game/hobby, you need to monetize, and the audience/income on amazon can be much larger. You're looking at 5-6 figures for selfpub or indie publishing on KU with a relatively popular story. That's enough to become a full time writer, which many people aspire to do.

I see. So I buy myself a pair of mittens for the salt and I pull the story after it reaches a certain popularity? Do you think 100,000 views or so would be a good cutting-off point? And thanks for the reply.

If the readers really care about the book they can buy it.

Thanks! I hope they will!

 

[Temple]

Most readers on SH, RR, etc. aren't going to buy the book anyway. Most of those who'll buy the book, don't visit those sites. It's likely that they're reading off Patreon before that. The published book is going to be more polished than the web version (hopefully) so those with money to spare will buy it. Just look at Japan's web and light novels. They don't pull the web novel if they're going light novel when they strike it big.

So what's up in our situation then?

The main reason authors pull stories from free sites when publishing is because KU requires it. If you're writing litrpg, progression, isekai, op mc, you know the usual webnovel stuff, the big bucks are in KU. You can't just sell ebooks in various sites (called "going wide"), you have to be on KU. And so, you see webnovel authors pulling their stuff to go to KU. If you don't go KU, like if you're just writing regular fantasy story for example, then better not pull.

Do you think 100,000 views or so would be a good cutting-off point? And thanks for the reply.

Best gauge for this is Patreon. Second gauge is check how your stories does on RR.

 

[MaraDarks]

Most readers on SH, RR, etc. aren't going to buy the book anyway. Most of those who'll buy the book, don't visit those sites. It's likely that they're reading off Patreon before that. The published book is going to be more polished than the web version (hopefully) so those with money to spare will buy it. Just look at Japan's web and light novels. They don't pull the web novel if they're going light novel when they strike it big.

So what's up in our situation then?

The main reason authors pull stories from free sites when publishing is because KU requires it. If you're writing litrpg, progression, isekai, op mc, you know the usual webnovel stuff, the big bucks are in KU. You can't just sell ebooks in various sites (called "going wide"), you have to be on KU. And so, you see webnovel authors pulling their stuff to go to KU. If you don't go KU, like if you're just writing regular fantasy story for example, then better not pull.
Best

Best gauge for this is Patreon. Second gauge is check how your stories does on RR.

Thanks a lot, this is very useful info! My focus would be mostly on isekai for the time being.

 

[Bobple]

It is complicated. Speaking as mostly a reader, as while I do write I'm not sure if I will ever reach the stage of pulling stories as I'm doing this mostly for fun in my spare time.

I was in a position for a really long time, where if a story did get pulled, I really couldn't afford it. Which while was annoying, I understood why, people need to feed their own mouth. Now later, still don't have too much cash flow, but I have enough to buy some books or parteon support some stories.

There are some people who absolutely hate stories getting pulled. I understand some complaints, but sometime people are just arseholes. Writers do need to make money as well. I do think some of the angry has been developed because of how "easy" it is to read free stories, and that being told to pay for it "For certain people" feels like basically theft.

It's not like I have zero grips. Would love if volume one of stories stayed free. Like please its just volume one ?

Another annoyance is the quick pull. So a week or two after a volume has been completed its been pulled... I don't read most of my stories weekly, cause I'm reading a stupid amount of them (700+ on just this site... I do also read on others... ). I have missed completing a volume cause a story got pulled right when I looked away... please at least a month...

I think I've gotten slightly off track....

To answer the question again. Its alright with some readers, some will get angry, and some will not care.

There are other ways to get money, patreon, Ko-Fi. This ways usual make readers more happy than pulling, with less chance of them getting angry as well. Cause it is just advance stuff.

But yeah, pulling itself is also weird. If you do with a large number of people, more people will be upset and more people will spend the money if they like it. But if you do with not too many people, then honesty, not many people are even going to buy it in the first place.

 

[greyblob]

virgin readers will complain. chad readers will realize author will be writing more as he'll be financially incentivized.

also a lot of authors notify readers about the migration. I've seen a few provide pdfs for download. some will also give you the book for free if you're broke and you dm them

 

[Sabruness]

as a reader who's had stories i've been reading be yanked many times, it annoys me but only really for those who go all-in on KU digital exclusivity. you can publish on amazon and be non-exclusive (several authors on SH do it that way) so KU isnt the be-all and end-all on making money from "self" publishing on amazon.

i am more inclined to be likely to purchase a published version of a web novel i like if they've gone the non-exclusive route and made physical paperback versions available (because kindle and digital subscription-based book services can go suck it) even though physical paperbacks are more upfront expensive. i like the feeling on having a physical version.

 

[Lloyd]

Fuck the readers

 

[Shard]

I utterly despise when people pull content. I fully support authors making money, but if you release something for the public, it shouldn't be taken down and made pay-only, IMO. Polish it up, add more content, then sell it. Make exclusive stories that you only publish paid versions of. Do like some stories have and put up a paperback while leaving the original writing there for people to read.

Personally, I'm far too poor to afford even $5 for a story, but even when I wasn't, I still held this view. As such, one thing I have promised my readers is that I will never pull my stories unless forced to do so by the hosting site, which is extremely unlikely as I don't push the rules.

I do wish I had more money though, lots of authors deserve to have money thrown at them, and I could only afford to do it to two so far. Such a long list...

 

[Paul_Michaels]

Hey all, quick question. What is KU? I'm not familiar with the shortened version of the company or website.

Thanks

 

[Sabruness]

Hey all, quick question. What is KU? I'm not familiar with the shortened version of the company or website.

Thanks

Kindle Unlimited. it's basically Amazon's e-book/publishing subscription service. if you sign a KU exclusivity contract, basically it tends to mean that your novel can only appear in any form on kindle unlimited and nowhere else.

 

[ShipTeaser]

I see why people do it. only a rare few will ever make enough off patreons to survive. But I will say, it does cut off new readers on these sites when it gets to a stub, so it's basically pulling up the drawbridge on the sites that made them popular, so... I do have mixed feelings about it. Because i understand it, definitely doesn't mean I like it.

I shall not be stubbying, that's for sure...

 

[SsemouyOnan]

This is a bit off topic, but seeing authors talk about the KU policy makes me wonder, how strict is it? Like, if you change the name of your story from "Genrically Long Ass Isekai Title" to "That, with Brevity." and claim the version you want to publish is distinct from the ones available on other platforms. Would they let that slide or nah?

Anyways as a reader I don't really care. Mostly cause things on the internet tend to stay on the internet, specially if they're popular enough to be kindled.

 

[Temple]

I utterly despise when people pull content. I fully support authors making money, but if you release something for the public, it shouldn't be taken down and made pay-only, IMO. Polish it up, add more content, then sell it. Make exclusive stories that you only publish paid versions of. Do like some stories have and put up a paperback while leaving the original writing there for people to read.

You should target your despise at Amazon. Even for the biggest webnovel authors, KU makes half of their earnings, probably more than that. At present, KU has become webnovel land, same as how SH became smut land. So for a webnovel author who want to live off their writing, they have to go KU. Selling ebooks, as you're suggesting, isn't good money-wise. And KU's the one mandating authors pull stories.

Authors are getting bullied by both KU and readers. You're consuming someone's hardwork and time without spending money. Authors don't owe you anything. If you want a change in the system, go complain to KU. I'm blessed that I have part time work and some patrons so I can write what I want. But most authors don't have that luxury. If they want to continue writing, they have to make money, and that means KU.

But I will say, it does cut off new readers on these sites when it gets to a stub, so it's basically pulling up the drawbridge on the sites that made them popular, so...

That doesn't really matter to them because KU will bring new readers who are way more likely to continue on to Patreon. At some point, most stories will hit a "soft ceiling" of sorts (Except the really big ones), with only a few readers trickling in. Conversion rate to Patreon will be very low. To continue earning, they go to KU. Thre's no loss there. New readers in SH, RR, etc. that they're missing out on are not likely to be converted to patrons.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Amazon requires your story to be exclusive to Amazon and it's affiliates for you to make a decent profit. It's all in their Kindle Unlimited contract. You can make money without it but it is very difficult without a large (5k - 10k or more) following. Plus, Amazon pockets more of the profit if you don't have the contract. It's just better to take the contract if you want to make a living.

On that same note though, most authors with decent sized followings will offer their long time readers a large discount on the pre order of their books as a thank you for supporting them and reading the series. This usually makes the readers less mad.

 

[Tyranomaster]

As a writer, I personally find it to be scummy. Everyone needs to make money, they have reasons.

If you made patreon money already from a story, and you're not actually changing it in any way, then maybe don't pull the story to put on KU.

Yes, maybe I'll make less money because of this, but I look at it like when big box stores shoulder out local stores then jack up prices. If you've decided to use Amazon KU and pull your stuff, then make the permanent move. Don't keep baiting people on the websites after.

Plus, they aren't using the pipeline well imo.

Write a web novel. If it does well and you make some patreon money, comit to a full rewrite and commission artists for it, then make that the light novel. Amazon KU doesn't require you to pull down for rewrites. (Adding exclusive content doesn't count). If you wish to just publish as is, then go for it, Amazon has no limits on publishing.

I haven't seen what the KU numbers look like, but I can't believe it makes anywhere near what creators who had big stories made on patreon (we're talking 5-10k a month).

For anyone interested, I intend to keep my wn up forever, and I'm likely to do a rewrite and publish of it once I complete it. I also intend to keep writing afterwards. I'd rather keep a positive community of people who would want to buy my books in 10 years when they have the money because they enjoyed it, rather than stab at them now for a quick buck.

 

[Temple]

KU policy makes me wonder, how strict is it

Very strictly. There was some issue a few months ago about KU banning authors whose works are pirated. Like those sites that harvest SH and RR? Authors can't control that but the machine that's looking for copies of KU books on the web flag those pirating sites as TOS violations. Not sure what happened to that because I don't hang out in author discords anymore.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Very strictly. There was some issue a few months ago about KU banning authors whose works are pirated. Like those sites that harvest SH and RR? Authors can't control that but the machine that's looking for copies of KU books on the web flag those pirating sites as TOS violations. Not sure what happened to that because I don't hang out in author discords anymore.

My (rudimentary) understanding is that it is strict, but not that strict. A full rewrite makes it fair I believe.