Do you pull your stories to publish on Amazon?

[Temple]

Amazon KU doesn't require you to pull down for rewrites.

KDP doesn't, but KU does. Unless you're going to write a whole new story. If you're going to just edit it, the KU system will catch it. It's like a plagiarism checker.

I haven't seen what the KU numbers look like, but I can't believe it makes anywhere near what creators who had big stories made on patreon (we're talking 5-10k a month).

The big authors themselves say KU is half of their total income. So that's KU vs Patreon, selling ebooks everywhere, audiobooks, translations, etc.
Many authors who do go to KU give ebooks to their loyal fans, and I agree with this. They're considerate of actual supporters who don't have money. But a random guy binging the story and then moving, not even leaving a rating or something, doesn't have a right to complain.

 

[TotallyHuman]

I don't blame the writers (like what they are gonna do? KU exculivity terms should fuck themselves with a rusty iron bat), but I fucking hate Amazon with a hate you can only give a nebulous entity slightly detached from reality, so I don't support this either.
The Japanese don't pull, and I'm sure authors here or on rrl wouldn't either of not for KU

 

[Paul_Michaels]

Has anyone tried lulu to sell there novels?

 

[Tyranomaster]

KDP doesn't, but KU does. Unless you're going to write a whole new story. If you're going to just edit it, the KU system will catch it. It's like a plagiarism checker.

Yes, just basic editing doesn't count. A proper rewrite where you fix accidental plot holes, move events around, streamline, add stuff. It is indeed rewriting a whole story with a good outline to start. You know, how big name authors do it. They write the whole story 3-5 times before they publish.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

I haven't seen what the KU numbers look like, but I can't believe it makes anywhere near what creators who had big stories made on patreon (we're talking 5-10k a month).

Most webnovel writers can't and/or don't make anywhere close to that number.

KUs numbers are between $2 and $8 per sale depending on how it is priced, and subscription authors who do audiobooks can make double or triple that. Though it really depends on how it is marketed and how good of a story it is. I believe I read in an Amazon study that the average earnings for KU contract self-published authors are around $25,000 a year with the lowest being around $150 a month while the highest being $20,000 a month.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Most webnovel writers can't and/or don't make anywhere close to that number.

KUs numbers are between $2 and $8 per sale depending on how it is priced, and subscription authors who do audiobooks can make double or triple that. Though it really depends on how it is marketed and how good of a story it is. I believe I read in an Amazon study that the average earnings for KU contract self-published authors are around $25,000 a year with the lowest being around $150 a month while the highest being $20,000 a month.

Yes, few make it there. It's easier to make a point about it for the big names though, as they're the ones who are pulling in millions of views.

The way KU works, as far as I understand is that in KU there are all these books. Then there are lets say, 1 million paid users at $5. Amazon takes half of that, and says of the $2.5M left they look at pages read and divy up the money accordingly. If 40 million pages where read that month, and you had 40k pages read, you'd get 2.5k.

For every author who goes over, each author gets less money. It was great if you got in early, but the design of that scheme will quickly lead to a bad work environment where authors need to publish a book every month or make no money (like webnovel).

 

[ManwX]

I'm not that good that could transition to that phase lol. It is a grey are a topic. something to think about

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Personally, I'm far too poor to afford even $5 for a story,
...
I do wish I had more money though, lots of authors deserve to have money thrown at them, and I could only afford to do it to two so far. Such a long list...

You know, if you pulled your books and sold them, you might be able to afford the 5 bucks to buy a book.

I work for the state and have access to unlimited overtime and have quite a chunk of change stored up. I could easily afford thousands of dollars of books. I don't, because I'm cheap as fuck. How the hell do you think I GOT thousands of dollars? Not by wasting it on silly books, I'll tell you that. Rich people don't get rich by spending money. Most people are shameless leeches. They don't spend money unless you twist their arm and force the bastards.

Like me.

So you pull your book if you want to. Put it on KU or use KY, I dunno. No idea what the hell you kids are talking about. What's a KU? Why do you gotta abbreviate everything? Do you get charged by the letter? Is your bandwidth too low? Is your keyboard missing a few keys? grumble grumble grumble grumble...

 

[Erios909]

as a reader who's had stories i've been reading be yanked many times, it annoys me but only really for those who go all-in on KU digital exclusivity. you can publish on amazon and be non-exclusive (several authors on SH do it that way) so KU isnt the be-all and end-all on making money from "self" publishing on amazon.

i am more inclined to be likely to purchase a published version of a web novel i like if they've gone the non-exclusive route and made physical paperback versions available (because kindle and digital subscription-based book services can go suck it) even though physical paperbacks are more upfront expensive. i like the feeling on having a physical version.

Your publisher is going to require you go on KU if you write in a KU genre though, so some authors aren't going to have a choice.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Your publisher is going to require you go on KU if you write in a KU genre though, so some authors aren't going to have a choice.

I think you need to explain. If you have a publisher, then they would almost certainly require that you do not publish on KU, because they are your publisher, and would lose money.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Yes, few make it there. It's easier to make a point about it for the big names though, as they're the ones who are pulling in millions of views.

The way KU works, as far as I understand is that in KU there are all these books. Then there are lets say, 1 million paid users at $5. Amazon takes half of that, and says of the $2.5M left they look at pages read and divy up the money accordingly. If 40 million pages where read that month, and you had 40k pages read, you'd get 2.5k.

For every author who goes over, each author gets less money. It was great if you got in early, but the design of that scheme will quickly lead to a bad work environment where authors need to publish a book every month or make no money (like webnovel).

You're not wrong but you're not entirely right either. Webnovels setup for signed authors is a bit different as there is a required daily word limit with a set monthly pay of $400 along with a percentage of the earnings on paid chapters.

Your description of KU was fairly accurate but you also have to account for the physical sales of books, the audiobook listen earnings, and the ebook sales, which are all separately accounted for. You could also include the amount paid on extra marketing and advertising, lowering the amount earned but increasing the chance of fan growth and possible earnings.

 

[Shard]

You should target your despise at Amazon. Even for the biggest webnovel authors, KU makes half of their earnings, probably more than that. At present, KU has become webnovel land, same as how SH became smut land. So for a webnovel author who want to live off their writing, they have to go KU. Selling ebooks, as you're suggesting, isn't good money-wise. And KU's the one mandating authors pull stories.

Authors are getting bullied by both KU and readers. You're consuming someone's hardwork and time without spending money. Authors don't owe you anything. If you want a change in the system, go complain to KU. I'm blessed that I have part time work and some patrons so I can write what I want. But most authors don't have that luxury. If they want to continue writing, they have to make money, and that means KU.

Trust me, it is hard to hate Amazon more than I do, I worked there for five years, I know just how horrifically bad they are. If anything, that alone should be reason enough to despise people supporting them by moving their stories there.

I do agree on authors not owing anything to their readers, mostly. They should at least put quality work into their stories or it makes it look like they don't care about their own writing. The issue is society rather than individual people -- most people will not donate to someone who produces something, even if they enjoy it, because they are not forced to do so. If more people spent money based on how much they enjoy things, it wouldn't be such an issue.

I don't blame the writers (like what they are gonna do? KU exculivity terms should fuck themselves with a rusty iron bat), but I fucking hate Amazon with a hate you can only give a nebulous entity slightly detached from reality, so I don't support this either.
The Japanese don't pull, and I'm sure authors here or on rrl wouldn't either of not for KU

Similarly, I don't blame the authors even if I despise their choice. They do need to make money, and it is the most profitable choice. Doesn't change that I despise removing free content and making it paid content.

You know, if you pulled your books and sold them, you might be able to afford the 5 bucks to buy a book.

I work for the state and have access to unlimited overtime and have quite a chunk of change stored up. I could easily afford thousands of dollars of books.

Well, I am quite certain I wouldn't get enough, as I am not popular. And I am very glad to hear that you are doing so well with your job, but some of us are incapable of working, let alone having access to good jobs. I'd love to be able to, but sometimes life doesn't allow what you want or what would be nice.



Anyways, enough wall of text from me. I support the authors wanting to make a living, I do not support pulling free content and making it paid, and I absolutely do not support Amazon and their evil ways. If others disagree with me, that is fine. If authors want to make money on Amazon, that is fine. It doesn't mean I agree with them, however, as personally I believe in doing what I consider moral, even if it is not the optimal choice.

 

[Tyranomaster]

You're not wrong but you're not entirely right either. Webnovels setup for signed authors is a bit different as there is a required daily word limit with a set monthly pay of $400 along with a percentage of the earnings on paid chapters.

Your description of KU was fairly accurate but you also have to account for the physical sales of books, the audiobook listen earnings, and the ebook sales, which are all separately accounted for. You could also include the amount paid on extra marketing and advertising, lowering the amount earned but increasing the chance of fan growth and possible earnings.

The other things don't require you pull your series though, only the Kindle Unlimited contract requires that (as far as I know, fact check me on that).

Web novel functions differently, agreed. I just meant as an example of toxic environment for writers.

 

[Erios909]

I think you need to explain. If you have a publisher, then they would almost certainly require that you do not publish on KU, because they are your publisher, and would lose money.

I think you're thinking of tradpub. That's not for LitRPG, Isekai, Xianxia, etc. At least not yet. Also tradpub really sucks, royalties are horrible, etc.

I'm talking about Aethon/Podium/Timeless Wind/Mountaindale/Wraithmark/Tantor/Royalguard, etc.

All these publishers will put your book on KU/Audible as exclusive there.

 

[Lloyd]

I utterly despise when people pull content. I fully support authors making money, but if you release something for the public, it shouldn't be taken down and made pay-only, IMO. Polish it up, add more content, then sell it. Make exclusive stories that you only publish paid versions of. Do like some stories have and put up a paperback while leaving the original writing there for people to read.

Personally, I'm far too poor to afford even $5 for a story, but even when I wasn't, I still held this view. As such, one thing I have promised my readers is that I will never pull my stories unless forced to do so by the hosting site, which is extremely unlikely as I don't push the rules.

I do wish I had more money though, lots of authors deserve to have money thrown at them, and I could only afford to do it to two so far. Such a long list...

I think you deserve to be executed by firing squad for being such an entitled, poor asshole. The amount of time and energy it takes to complete a novel is unfathomable to a philistine such as yourself. Even if I explained it to you, you don't possess the IQ to process it. Look in a fucking mirror and ask yourself if you'd work hundreds, if not thousands of hours just to leave money on the table so a few assholes like yourself can have a few fleeting moments of enjoyment. In short, go fuck yourself.

 

[Deleted member 113259]

I think you deserve to be executed by firing squad for being such an entitled, poor asshole. The amount of time and energy it takes to complete a novel is unfathomable to a philistine such as yourself. Even if I explained it to you, you don't possess the IQ to process it. Look in a fucking mirror and ask yourself if you'd work hundreds, if not thousands of hours just to leave money on the table so a few assholes like yourself can have a few fleeting moments of enjoyment. In short, go fuck yourself.

Wow, I got to see salt used for good. What a sight.

(good meaning what I agree with.)

 

[Tyranomaster]

I think you're thinking of tradpub. That's not for LitRPG, Isekai, Xianxia, etc. At least not yet. Also tradpub really sucks, royalties are horrible, etc.

I'm talking about Aethon/Podium/Timeless Wind/Mountaindale/Wraithmark/Tantor/Royalguard, etc.

All these publishers will put your book on KU/Audible as exclusive there.

Gotcha. I've never even considered a publisher for mid level stuff, and with self publishing, I wouldn't.

 

[Erios909]

Gotcha. I've never even considered a publisher for mid level stuff, and with self publishing, I wouldn't.

Self pub won't give you the 20-40k USD advance though. And some aren't going to be comfortable handling the marketing nor the expenses of hiring an editor and cover artist.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

The other things don't require you pull your series though, only the Kindle Unlimited contract requires that (as far as I know, fact check me on that).

Web novel functions differently, agreed. I just meant as an example of toxic environment for writers.

True, but they also have an exclusivity contract through KDP as well. It just gives you a higher percentage of earnings and really good free marketing but the conditions are pretty much the same as KUs.

 

[Shard]

I think you deserve to be executed by firing squad for being such an entitled, poor asshole. The amount of time and energy it takes to complete a novel is unfathomable to a philistine such as yourself. Even if I explained it to you, you don't possess the IQ to process it. Look in a fucking mirror and ask yourself if you'd work hundreds, if not thousands of hours just to leave money on the table so a few assholes like yourself can have a few fleeting moments of enjoyment. In short, go fuck yourself.

Well now, do you just think anyone who disagrees with you should be murdered? What a pleasant view of reality.

And funny that you mention asking myself if I'd work hundreds or thousands of hours just to leave something free for people to enjoy. I happen to have done exactly that already, and shall continue to do so, as I see it as being moral to keep free things free. (Edit: in case it isn't obvious, I happen to write my own story, as seen in my signature.)

I suggest taking a good hard look at yourself if you are so hateful to people who have differing opinions.