For you what makes a Villian, a good villian

[Sleds]

It really depend how it's written, the 'sad backstory' villain can be good depending on how it's done. I find it interesting when the villain and the mc have a lot in common. One of the good villain I have in mind is Ozai from the last airbender, the fact we don't see him much but heard about all the things he done is a good way to write a villain. Aizen from bleach was at the top for me, all his planning and how he play with the soul society was awesome.

I think you have to write your villain charismatic enough, if not, it's just a random beggar who going to be face slapped by the mc.

 

[Anon2024]

Only if they are memorable.
memorability requires depth of character, complex motivations.

Doesn’t require a sob story, in fact better if there is none.

 

[laccoff_mawning]

A villain that isn't there to glorify the mc.

I also don't like villains who are depicted as "good guys, but on a different side". That's nonsensical.

What I can admire, which is very different in principle from the above, is a repentant villain if done well. Groose from Skyward Sword is an excellent example, even though he never really served a a true "villain".

 

[SailusGebel]

Forgot one more thing. A good theme song.

 

[Sleds]

Forgot one more thing. A good theme song.

How can we write this

 

[laccoff_mawning]

How can we write this

Dududu-du-du du-du-du du-dudu-dudu du-du-dudu-du du...

 

[SailusGebel]

How can we write this

Write dem lyrics!

 

[Sleds]

Write dem lyrics!

That would be weird in the middle of a chapter suddenly writing lyrics for a music, and how can I write it if there no word, just an ost. Should I write like laccoff, using Dudududu-du-dudu.

 

[SailusGebel]

That would be weird in the middle of a chapter suddenly writing lyrics for a music, and how can I write it if there no word, just an ost. Should I write like laccoff, using Dudududu-du-dudu.

Combine the two. Use dududu and put lyrics in the middle.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

A logical reason for their villainy. If they, as a the villain, can't explain in a way that makes any logical sense why they are a villain then they are a shitty villain. It can be an emotional trigger, trauma, a psychological disorder, revenge, justice, or even that they are terrified/hateful of the world and/or it's people. If it's just like, I'm a villain because it's fun and I like killing people then there isn't any reason for me to relate or sympathize with their goal to some degree. There is no real reason for me to justify even caring about the fight because it feels more cartoony and pointless.

 

[Sleds]

Combine the two. Use dududu and put lyrics in the middle.

Asked chatgpt to see how nightmarish that thing could be.

Spoiler: Nightmare

(Verse 1) In the heat of the moment, we rise, With the fire in our hearts, we'll touch the skies, With our swords gleaming, we stand as one, In the battle's rhythm, our song's begun.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Verse 2) Through the darkest night, we'll light the way, In the face of danger, we won't sway, In unity we'll fight, our spirits strong, In the chorus of battle, we all belong.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Bridge) When the world's against us, we won't fear, For in this battle, victory is near, Our battle cry, a symphony of might, In the dududu-du-dudu, we'll win this fight.

(Verse 3) As the battle rages, we hold the line, With honor and valor, our spirits shine, Through the storm of chaos, we will prevail, In the dududu-du-dudu, our epic tale.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Outro) In the echoes of battle, our legend's told, In the dududu-du-dudu, our hearts of gold, With our banner high, in victory, we'll soar, In the rhythm of battle, forevermore.

 

[SailusGebel]

Asked chatgpt to see how nightmarish that thing could be.

Spoiler: Nightmare

(Verse 1) In the heat of the moment, we rise, With the fire in our hearts, we'll touch the skies, With our swords gleaming, we stand as one, In the battle's rhythm, our song's begun.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Verse 2) Through the darkest night, we'll light the way, In the face of danger, we won't sway, In unity we'll fight, our spirits strong, In the chorus of battle, we all belong.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Bridge) When the world's against us, we won't fear, For in this battle, victory is near, Our battle cry, a symphony of might, In the dududu-du-dudu, we'll win this fight.

(Verse 3) As the battle rages, we hold the line, With honor and valor, our spirits shine, Through the storm of chaos, we will prevail, In the dududu-du-dudu, our epic tale.

(Chorus) Dududu-du-dudu, the clash of steel, Our courage unbreakable, our will so real, With every heartbeat, we'll face our fate, Dududu-du-dudu, it's not too late.

(Outro) In the echoes of battle, our legend's told, In the dududu-du-dudu, our hearts of gold, With our banner high, in victory, we'll soar, In the rhythm of battle, forevermore.

 

[Sleds]

A logical reason for their villainy. If they, as a the villain, can't explain in a way that makes any logical sense why they are a villain then they are a shitty villain. It can be an emotional trigger, trauma, a psychological disorder, revenge, justice, or even that they are terrified/hateful of the world and/or it's people. If it's just like, I'm a villain because it's fun and I like killing people then there isn't any reason for me to relate or sympathize with their goal to some degree. There is no real reason for me to justify even caring about the fight because it feels more cartoony and pointless.

You don't have to relate or sympathize with a villain, if you hate it and want it dead, then the author write it right too. To relate or sympathize with a villain mean it's mostly a 'sad back story' villain.

 

[SailusGebel]

A logical reason for their villainy. If they, as a the villain, can't explain in a way that makes any logical sense why they are a villain then they are a shitty villain. It can be an emotional trigger, trauma, a psychological disorder, revenge, justice, or even that they are terrified/hateful of the world and/or it's people. If it's just like, I'm a villain because it's fun and I like killing people then there isn't any reason for me to relate or sympathize with their goal to some degree. There is no real reason for me to justify even caring about the fight because it feels more cartoony and pointless.

Is it necessary to relate and sympathize with a villain when you can sympathize with antagonist?

 

[NopeNope]

For me i would say that a good villain is a memorable villain, he doesn't need a sad past or some greater purpose.
they are videogames examples, but for me Sephiroth from final fantasy 7 and Kafka from final fantasy 6 are pretty good villain. the first has even a kind of sad backstory that makes you go "yeah, f**k the world", while the second is just pure evil for being evil, no motivation no backstory, just evil, his actions speaks for him.

 

[breakofdawnstories]

An intelligent villian. The one who's so reasonable and so good at playing on the gray areas that reader's would start to question there own beliefs. The one who could convince the whole world (i mean the readers) that this world is so worth burning for. The kind of villian that if you were the MC, even if you win against him in the end, you would feel empty and loss because somehow this villian manage to stir your core and poor soul.

Disclaimer: I am a happy, healthy and bright individual. Don't worry about my being. (If it was the case)

 

[ArcadiaBlade]

A villain to confront the protagonist and challenges him in his story.

Basically, a protagonist will always stand out in the story, he/she will be glorified by others and be put in the spotlight for us to either enjoy or relate.

But a villain will oppose him, challenges his views or even become the protagonist's true goal to finish his story.


It doesn't need any backstory, complicated plot or how he would get beaten up. How he will portray in front of the protagonist and the readers views matter as he will always be in the spotlight to challenge the Protagonist.

Example would be Aizen. A smart and calculative man who opposes the MC, which challenges the protagonist in order to grow and face trials in order to defeat him.

Another would be L. While we can clearly see Light being a bonified Evil person, we still view him as a protagonist and labeled L as the 'villain' in the story since he opposes Light.

In the end, it mainly stems from the fact that as long as you oppose the protagonist in the story, they will always be labeled as a 'Villain' even if their views are good.

 

[Paul_Tromba]

Is it necessary to relate and sympathize with a villain when you can sympathize with antagonist?

Not necessarily. Though I at least want to be able to consider their points because their reasoning actually contained well thought out reasoning. Even if it's as simple as money or power, that's at least logically understandable.

 

[SailusGebel]

Not necessarily. Though I at least want to be able to consider their points because their reasoning actually contained well thought out reasoning. Even if it's as simple as money or power, that's at least logically understandable.

But what if the villain is, for example, a sociopath? You won't understand them logically, right? That's the point of disorders, behavior can be illogical. And what if it isn't announced that this villain is a sociopath? I understand that it is really hard to write such a character and make them believable, and people will fudge it up, but I just want to hear your thoughts about it.

 

[TotallyHuman]

Not necessarily. Though I at least want to be able to consider their points because their reasoning actually contained well thought out reasoning. Even if it's as simple as money or power, that's at least logically understandable.

Virgin logically understandable villain
vs
Chad mothman. Hell yeah