How would an geometry based magic system work?

[TheJudger]

So, i'm writing a history where the magic system of the world is based on actual geometry, like polygons(to basics magics), and polyhedrons (to advanced magics)

But, i, personally, aren't too into the geometry knowledge, and didn't think about it in all details, such as "how is defined the elementals" or such a thing, so, i'm asking you guys help.

What details are good to think about?

The most questions that is in my mind is:

What is the importance of the Face, Edges and Vertices on the magic?

What does the number of Faces defines on the magic? The elements used? The power of the magic?

Ando so go on... What are your thoughts about that?

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

So, i'm writing a history where the magic system of the world is based on actual geometry, like polygons(to basics magics), and polyhedrons (to advanced magics)

But, i, personally, aren't too into the geometry knowledge, and didn't think about it in all details, such as "how is defined the elementals" or such a thing, so, i'm asking you guys help.

What details are good to think about?

The most questions that is in my mind is:

What is the importance of the Face, Edges and Vertices on the magic?

What does the number of Faces defines on the magic? The elements used? The power of the magic?

Ando so go on... What are your thoughts about that?

I don't know how geometry dash would work as a political system much less a magic system

 

[Syringe]

Edges could define the strength of magic, or tiers like in Overlord. It'll give a good indication of how strong the magic is at a glance.
- Circle = Lowest
- Triangle = Second lowest
- Square = higher
- Pentagon = higher
- Decagon = One of the highest
- And so on.

Elements could be as simple as the coloration
- Red = fire
- Blue = water
- Green = nature
- etc

Since you mentioned polygons/polyhedrons, you might also want to consider 1D and 4D objects. God-like stuff could be 4th Dimensional shapes.

Vertices could be used to determine how many other shapes/magic it can connect/combine/interact with, since they are, after all, places where the lines meet/combine. Edges could be how these shapes fit together (i.e a triangle will have difficulty fusing with a square, but a triangular prism will be able to interact/combine with a square or cube).

A super complex magic may as well be an amalgamation of shapes, like magical building blocks.

 

[SelfProclaimedNerd]

So, i'm writing a history where the magic system of the world is based on actual geometry, like polygons(to basics magics), and polyhedrons (to advanced magics)

But, i, personally, aren't too into the geometry knowledge, and didn't think about it in all details, such as "how is defined the elementals" or such a thing, so, i'm asking you guys help.

What details are good to think about?

The most questions that is in my mind is:

What is the importance of the Face, Edges and Vertices on the magic?

What does the number of Faces defines on the magic? The elements used? The power of the magic?

Ando so go on... What are your thoughts about that?

Something like: the closer it gets to become a full-fledged circle, it gets stronger and more stable. Having shapes combine is a pretty interesting take as well. Number of vertices, and side should determine mana cost, spell strength, duration, cooldown, and overall effect.

A pyramid has 5 sides: 4 triangular faces and 1 square base. Calculate the spell effect based on the faces and their color; the vertices for spell stability with each line connecting to a single point making it harder to materialize and therefore have a much higher mana cost; a perfectly straight or crooked edge determines spell duration; and size should determine spell strength

Each mage acolyte achieving a shape, grants them a tier. Creating a flat triangle nets them the lowest rank, square for the next tier, creating a polygon which involves connecting multiple shapes, is an advanced tier — creating a polygon inside a polygon may be seen as taboo or something, you decide what to do with it.

 

[TotallyHuman]

So, i'm writing a history where the magic system of the world is based on actual geometry, like polygons(to basics magics), and polyhedrons (to advanced magics)

But, i, personally, aren't too into the geometry knowledge, and didn't think about it in all details, such as "how is defined the elementals" or such a thing, so, i'm asking you guys help.

What details are good to think about?

The most questions that is in my mind is:

What is the importance of the Face, Edges and Vertices on the magic?

What does the number of Faces defines on the magic? The elements used? The power of the magic?

Ando so go on... What are your thoughts about that?

Do magic based on differentiable manifolds in Hilbert spaces or something instead~

 

[Snusmumriken]

Do magic based on differentiable manifolds in Hilbert spaces or something instead~

Those are fun to design (i am using something similar!) but a pain to describe so that target audience can enjoy reading those (i am using something similar...)

 

[Akaichi]

Read Edwin Abbot's Flatland... it is not really a magic system, but it is interesting.

 

[owotrucked]

Reminds me of the manga Witch Hat Atelier

 

[LesserSarcasm]

Oh oh non euclidean geometry in a euclidean based world, guess that would really mess with peoples heads.

 

[Num]

Edges could define the strength of magic, or tiers like in Overlord. It'll give a good indication of how strong the magic is at a glance.
- Circle = Lowest
- Triangle = Second lowest
- Square = higher
- Pentagon = higher
- Decagon = One of the highest
- And so on.

Elements could be as simple as the coloration
- Red = fire
- Blue = water
- Green = nature
- etc

Since you mentioned polygons/polyhedrons, you might also want to consider 1D and 4D objects. God-like stuff could be 4th Dimensional shapes.

Vertices could be used to determine how many other shapes/magic it can connect/combine/interact with, since they are, after all, places where the lines meet/combine. Edges could be how these shapes fit together (i.e a triangle will have difficulty fusing with a square, but a triangular prism will be able to interact/combine with a square or cube).

A super complex magic may as well be an amalgamation of shapes, like magical building blocks.

I thought a circle had infinite edges?

 

[TheJudger]

Edges could define the strength of magic, or tiers like in Overlord. It'll give a good indication of how strong the magic is at a glance.
- Circle = Lowest
- Triangle = Second lowest
- Square = higher
- Pentagon = higher
- Decagon = One of the highest
- And so on.

Elements could be as simple as the coloration
- Red = fire
- Blue = water
- Green = nature
- etc

Since you mentioned polygons/polyhedrons, you might also want to consider 1D and 4D objects. God-like stuff could be 4th Dimensional shapes.

Vertices could be used to determine how many other shapes/magic it can connect/combine/interact with, since they are, after all, places where the lines meet/combine. Edges could be how these shapes fit together (i.e a triangle will have difficulty fusing with a square, but a triangular prism will be able to interact/combine with a square or cube).

A super complex magic may as well be an amalgamation of shapes, like magical building blocks.

This is a damn good way to see the magic system, but how exactly are your idea of how the vertices could determinate the quantities of connections?

Like, how the connections between two polyhedrons/polygons would happen? The base of the connections would be between vertices or edges?

And how you think that will determinate what is the "function" of the determinated magic? Like, is there some way to tell what the mage is planning to do just seeing what is the geometry shape he's doing? And how it will, exactly, be determinated? Or is it just based on imagination, like, i can use the two same figures to do two completely different magics, but with the same level, based exclusively on what i want?

Anyways, i really liked your thoughts, thank you for share with me! It helped me a lot!

 

[Draconite]

Try reading a book about magic squares maybe it could inspire you especially the occult versions.

 

[Agentt]

Try reading Flatland. It is an amazing story which will help you lots. It's a real book by the way, not on SH

 

[Syringe]

This is a damn good way to see the magic system, but how exactly are your idea of how the vertices could determinate the quantities of connections?

Like, how the connections between two polyhedrons/polygons would happen? The base of the connections would be between vertices or edges?

Face to face. I have two examples (although, 2d shapes don't generally have a 'face'.)

2D on a 3D face. Imagine sheet metal plastered on the side of a box

or

One side (the 2d side) is simply colored in the magic being used. This probably won't make sense for different shapes, unless you make them into something like a triangular prism, etc.

So there'll be incompatibilities with tiers of magic in a sense. E.g a sphere can't interact or combine with other magic, and probably not even a circle aside from maybe a cone. But this is probably a good thing since in this magic system we're assuming circles are the weakest anyway, so it makes sense in that context.

And how you think that will determinate what is the "function" of the determinated magic? Like, is there some way to tell what the mage is planning to do just seeing what is the geometry shape he's doing? And how it will, exactly, be determinated? Or is it just based on imagination, like, i can use the two same figures to do two completely different magics, but with the same level, based exclusively on what i want?

Basically, your magic system is akin to building blocks. I'm not sure what other things go on underneath the hood, but let's assume that it's simply just these shapes for simplicity sake. You'd have a discipline revolving around these and interactions, so naturally there'll be recognisable or predetermined formulas for magic.

E.g -

Steam magic

The most basic blueprint would be something like this.

3 triangles arranged like a croissant. Why is this steam?
- 1 triangular polyhedron water w/ 2 triangular polyhedron fires = steam. It could be just the right ratio to create it, but it can be tweaked by better mages. Or better yet, you can add something acidic/acrid to the other two remaining faces (we can connect +4 since the vertices of the shape itself is 4. it'll look like a caltrop for something like an acidic steam cloud.

But this doesn't answer how it determines the function. Just what the magic 'is'. You could have these as a miniature version and used as symbols rather than the shape itself, kind of like a language/inscription. That way you can different iterations of the same principle magic (steam) but it all comes down to who has the better arrangement.

(Could be interesting to have them as their equivalence of atoms and molecular makeup! Just in magic!)

Or honestly, have magical inscriptions written into the shape itself that determines how it functions rather than the previous suggestion. This is probably the simplest and easiest way. That way you can have some pretty interactions like physically breaking an oponent's 'magic circle' to sabotage it, or the inscriptions to make it malfunction/incomplete.

Also please pardon my Picaso pictures.

Anyways, i really liked your thoughts, thank you for share with me! It helped me a lot!

No problem! Have fun!

Also to add, if you do go for the inscription route and magic can be interrupted or broken, then it'll make sense for why 4th Dimensional magic 'circles' are God-like because they'd be nigh impossible to break with how they phase between the 3D and the 4D, like moving in and out of reality. Have a look at Ramiel in Neon Genesis Evangelion with how it operates. It's super cool.

 

[gaylolis]

all i know, people there can try to do triforce.

and if they fail it become like this

 

[TheJudger]

Face to face. I have two examples (although, 2d shapes don't generally have a 'face'.)

2D on a 3D face. Imagine sheet metal plastered on the side of a box
View attachment 17247
or

One side (the 2d side) is simply colored in the magic being used. This probably won't make sense for different shapes, unless you make them into something like a triangular prism, etc.
View attachment 17248
So there'll be incompatibilities with tiers of magic in a sense. E.g a sphere can't interact or combine with other magic, and probably not even a circle aside from maybe a cone. But this is probably a good thing since in this magic system we're assuming circles are the weakest anyway, so it makes sense in that context.


Basically, your magic system is akin to building blocks. I'm not sure what other things go on underneath the hood, but let's assume that it's simply just these shapes for simplicity sake. You'd have a discipline revolving around these and interactions, so naturally there'll be recognisable or predetermined formulas for magic.

E.g -

Steam magic

The most basic blueprint would be something like this.

View attachment 17250

3 triangles arranged like a croissant. Why is this steam?
- 1 triangular polyhedron water w/ 2 triangular polyhedron fires = steam. It could be just the right ratio to create it, but it can be tweaked by better mages. Or better yet, you can add something acidic/acrid to the other two remaining faces (we can connect +4 since the vertices of the shape itself is 4. it'll look like a caltrop for something like an acidic steam cloud.

But this doesn't answer how it determines the function. Just what the magic 'is'. You could have these as a miniature version and used as symbols rather than the shape itself, kind of like a language/inscription. That way you can different iterations of the same principle magic (steam) but it all comes down to who has the better arrangement.

View attachment 17251
(Could be interesting to have them as their equivalence of atoms and molecular makeup! Just in magic!)

Or honestly, have magical inscriptions written into the shape itself that determines how it functions rather than the previous suggestion. This is probably the simplest and easiest way. That way you can have some pretty interactions like physically breaking an oponent's 'magic circle' to sabotage it, or the inscriptions to make it malfunction/incomplete.

Also please pardon my Picaso pictures.


No problem! Have fun!

Also to add, if you do go for the inscription route and magic can be interrupted or broken, then it'll make sense for why 4th Dimensional magic 'circles' are God-like because they'd be nigh impossible to break with how they phase between the 3D and the 4D, like moving in and out of reality. Have a look at Ramiel in Neon Genesis Evangelion with how it operates. It's super cool.

I really loved your explanation, but i was thinking that in this way, the magic itself would be much simple, like, if i try to give it an form, it would be difficult, cause, at least with what i got with your explanation, all that would be possible would be simulate actual chemical reactions

I'm not sure if i'm getting it well, i'm not an english speaker at all.

But well, i just LOVED your ideas, and it surely helped me a lot

But i did it differently, in a way that the complexity of the magic is determined by your imagination and the numbers of sides of polygons

And the magic is used in a way that polygons and polyhedrons are used together, one inside another, following the number of dimensions of each other.

The number of sides of a polygon determinate how complex the function can be, while the number of faces of the polyhedron determinate the limit of the total sides of the polygons inside it, and the general power of the magic.

Well, there's much more, and the idea of an 4th dimensional magic based sure gives me an idea about an energy that i was creating that is the fusion between mana and aura.

And also, i loved your picks, it's pretty easy to understand!

And more, did you have discord? I mean, even if i'm not an english speaker, i would like to share the ideas that i'm having with a person that has an actual knowledge about geometry, thing that i don't have at all lmao!

If you have, and want to talk about it, leave your username! Mine is with some characters that i can't copy paste in the phone

 

[Element.of.P]

2D and 3D. Area vs Volume.

A 2D shape with higher number of sides would be higher in level compared to thos with fewer sides.

A 3D object with higher number of faces would then be more complex/stronger.

Start the levels like a line, then an angle then triangle. Line is level 1 magic or just theories. An angle is like level 2 or application. Level 3, triangle would then be basic/elementary magic. And so on and so forth.

Then 3D objects would represent complex magic systems or those that require deeper understanding of multiple magic theories.

Like a triangle is basic fire. A 3 sided pyramid (a triangle base) would then be fire ball due to elemental control, mana control, and a 4 sided pyramid (a square base) would then be fire arrow coz of elemental control, mana control, shape control . Then a cube would be a nuke. Haha.

I dunno, but your concept has potential.

 

[TheJudger]

2D and 3D. Area vs Volume.

A 2D shape with higher number of sides would be higher in level compared to thos with fewer sides.

A 3D object with higher number of faces would then be more complex/stronger.

Start the levels like a line, then an angle then triangle. Line is level 1 magic or just theories. An angle is like level 2 or application. Level 3, triangle would then be basic/elementary magic. And so on and so forth.

Then 3D objects would represent complex magic systems or those that require deeper understanding of multiple magic theories.

Like a triangle is basic fire. A 3 sided pyramid (a triangle base) would then be fire ball due to elemental control, mana control, and a 4 sided pyramid (a square base) would then be fire arrow coz of elemental control, mana control, shape control . Then a cube would be a nuke. Haha.

I dunno, but your concept has potential.

Actually, i did it almost that way, but with some different things, but you got it with the number of sides and faces representing the complexity of the magic in general

Thank you for share your thoughts!

 

[IdleYoungMaster]

Interestingly, a circle is just a shape with infinite edges. See how a box comes closer to a circle after, say, having around 30 or so sides? You can implement this system of more edges=more power or make it so that having more sides can make your magic more comprehensive and flexible. It kind of have the same principle as to how it gets harder to fold a paper the more you go. You can also add other variations such as 1D~3D.

 

[assassin0224]

Orientation in regards to gravity and vectors could also play a role, a spell usually has a direction in the case of projectile spells.

More complex shapes also need time to be formed as well, bringing a power VS speed into the meta on which spell to use.

Consider also presenting it as sacred geometry instead of just a magic system. Is the magic based on some common metaphysical energy like mana? Is it rituals to draw fraction of a deity's power? Mages VS clerics.

Finally the medium that's used for the magic: instead of books or wands or staves/staffs/canes etc., how about the very world around you? Magic literally carved into the walls you walk within, cubes carried around by laymen that need to just speak the magic words to use the cube's magic or the entire cultural appearance (clothes/heirlooms/everyday objects) mimicking/replicating the supernatural phenomenon that seems to exist in nature.

And finally: FRACTALS. They already exist in nature in sea creatures, plant leaves and maybe some other places/creatures. Turning those otherwise mundane parts of nature supernatural.