I'd like to ask your opinion...

[SailusGebel]

Well, that's quite a fact with most of readers nowadays, though I'd like to understand them because many are from working ages.

The reason why web novels are even called web novels, and why they are bite-sized, in my understanding and I can be wrong, is because you can easily read them while riding a bus, or in a subway, you get what I mean. You do it on your phone. When you have ten minutes before arriving at your station, what are you going to do? Read half of 6000 words chapter? Meanwhile you can easily finish 2000 words chapter.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

The reason why web novels are even called web novels, and why they are bite-sized, in my understanding and I can be wrong, is because you can easily read them while riding a bus, or in a subway, you get what I mean. You do it on your phone. When you have ten minutes before arriving at your station, what are you going to do? Read half of 6000 words chapter? Meanwhile you can easily finish 2000 words chapter.

Yes, I think it's also the reason for the popularity of web-novels.

Though again, I'd like to reiterate that I find it hard to write high-fantasy descriptions (especially when I'm trying to do things 'different') within 1k-2k limit.

 

[SailusGebel]

Yes, I think it's also the reason for the popularity of web-novels.

Though again, I'd like to reiterate that I find it hard to write high-fantasy descriptions (especially when I'm trying to do things 'different') within 1k-2k limit.

That's why I said you should not split your chapters. You do not write a web novel. You write a light novel. And you write volumes, not chapters.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

That's why I said you should not split your chapters. You do not write a web novel. You write a light novel. And you write volumes, not chapters.

Ah now I get it. Indeed, I'm writing light novels, not web ones. . Thanks for reminding me of that.

Well, in any case, I'll take this in mind should I upload my works in another site.

 

[SailusGebel]

Ah now I get it. Indeed, I'm writing light novels, not web ones. . Thanks for reminding me of that.

Well, in any case, I'll take this in mind should I upload my works in another site.

One more thing before I finish. By the time you decide to upload your work on one of the "bigger" sites, you are probably going to have enough chapters to not worry about anything. I purposefully lower the count, but it is going to be AT LEAST 220+ chapters. You can update two times a week on SH without any troubles. I'm talking about worrying that you don't have enough chapters, I'm not talking about reception you are going to have, this is a different thing I'm not willing to tackle.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

I got around 375+ chapters, and the numbers still going up with V18, V19, and V20.

One more thing before I finish. By the time you decide to upload your work on one of the "bigger" sites, you are probably going to have enough chapters to not worry about anything. I purposefully lower the count, but it is going to be AT LEAST 220+ chapters. You can update two times a week on SH without any troubles. I'm talking about worrying that you don't have enough chapters, I'm not talking about reception you are going to have, this is a different thing I'm not willing to tackle.

 

[SailusGebel]

I got around 375+ chapters, and the numbers still going up with V18, V19, and V20.

I did not count afterwords, interludes, extra chapters, and point five chapters(like 4.5 or 6.5 and so on). Ehem, anyway, you have more than enough chapters to post them on a weekly basis without worrying that you don't have enough.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

I did not count afterwords, interludes, extra chapters, and point five chapters(like 4.5 or 6.5 and so on). Ehem, anyway, you have more than enough chapters to post them on a weekly basis without worrying that you don't have enough.

I'm about to finish the series, too, anyway. So if ever I upload, I can rest easy that it's a complete work.

And I can continue with the sequel and prequel, along with some extra stories. (I planned the entire thing to be 25 books long)

 

[OokamiKasumi]

The reason why web novels are even called web novels, and why they are bite-sized, in my understanding and I can be wrong, is because you can easily read them while riding a bus, or in a subway, you get what I mean. You do it on your phone. When you have ten minutes before arriving at your station, what are you going to do? Read half of 6000 words chapter? Meanwhile you can easily finish 2000 words chapter.

Quick reading on public transport, or during a break between classes is an Excuse -- not a Reason.

I'm from the era before web-novels existed. I had no problem reading paperbacks on the bus, the train, and during class. Popping in a bookmark then opening the book where I left off is easy and painless. Also, the average chapter in a paperback runs from 2500 words to 5000.

These days when reading on my phone, I simply save the page to my bookmarks and continue later. A little more complicated than a scrap of paper tucked between pages, but it still works the same.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Quick reading on public transport, or during a break between classes is an Excuse -- not a Reason.

I'm from the era before web-novels existed. I had no problem reading paperbacks on the bus, the train, and during class. Popping in a bookmark then opening the book where I left off is easy and painless. Also, the average chapter in a paperback runs from 2500 words to 5000.

These days when reading on my phone, I simply save the page to my bookmarks and continue later. A little more complicated than a scrap of paper tucked between pages, but it still works the same.

Sadly this is the reality of today's readers. We can complain all we want about how low their attention span is, but in the end, they won't adapt to us as much as we won't adapt to them (if we write for ourselves).

My students are perfect examples. Asking them to read a 500-word story from our textbooks is already a chore for them. And yes, while bookmarking a page is an option, they simply don't care/uninterested. The attitude of the education system, as well as other educators often contribute to the decline as well.

Note: I also hail from the era of books and bookmarks. Before the pesky Wattpad existed.

 

[SailusGebel]

Quick reading on public transport, or during a break between classes is an Excuse -- not a Reason.

I'm from the era before web-novels existed. I had no problem reading paperbacks on the bus, the train, and during class. Popping in a bookmark then opening the book where I left off is easy and painless. Also, the average chapter in a paperback runs from 2500 words to 5000.

These days when reading on my phone, I simply save the page to my bookmarks and continue later. A little more complicated than a scrap of paper tucked between pages, but it still works the same.

Judging everyone based on yourself and your own standards is an excuse. While doing it when you are an established author is beyond disingenuous.

Imagine judging, for example, a young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan who rides a bus to his school the same way you judge an established author who writes her works in English, and even gives advice and tips for free.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Judging everyone based on yourself and your own standards is an excuse. While doing it when you are an established author is beyond disingenuous.

Imagine judging, for example, a young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan who rides a bus to his school the same way you judge an established author who writes her works in English, and even gives advice and tips for free.

I study for glorious Kazakhstan!

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Sadly this is the reality of today's readers. We can complain all we want about how low their attention span is, but in the end, they won't adapt to us as much as we won't adapt to them (if we write for ourselves).

Not True.
-- Readers learn from every book they read -- as do writers.

For example, because so many Translated stories are being cut down into 1000k chapters to rush posting, readers are learning to accept this as a Norm. Sadly, writers are picking up this trend too -- which is Why your post exists.

My students are perfect examples. Asking them to read a 500-word story from our textbooks is already a chore for them.

That has always been the case with kids. If it exists in a textbook, it's considered an enemy to entertainment -- no matter how entertaining the story actually is.

And yes, while bookmarking a page is an option, they simply don't care/uninterested.

That's not your fault -- and it's never a good idea to Enable bad behavior.

The attitude of the education system, as well as other educators often contribute to the decline as well.

No argument there.

Note: I also hail from the era of books and bookmarks. Before the pesky Wattpad existed.

Nice! Glad to meet you!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Judging everyone based on yourself and your own standards is an excuse.

LOL! No way -- I make an exemplary example!

While doing it when you are an established author is beyond disingenuous.

Established authors have rather large readerships that write comments and emails to said authors with both positive and negative reviews.

In short, I know what my readers like, and don't like because I get a face full of it every time I post or publish. If sharing what I know can save a new reader Writer the pain of learning it the hard way from their own readers, I consider it a win.

Imagine judging, for example, a young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan who rides a bus to his school the same way you judge an established author who writes her works in English, and even gives advice and tips for free.

If that young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan plans to publish their work in the English language in the USA or Canadian markets, (I have publishers in both countries,) then they they would do well to listen to my advice. If not, then they can write as they please.

If that young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan is Reading English language stories, then it's the author's responsibility to write to the very best of their abilities with decent grammar, strong characterization, and good plotting. This way whatever translation program the young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan is using will translate the story in a Comprehensible manner as well as deliver an enjoyable tale.

Just for the record...

I have no interest in collecting Young Adult readers, or worse; middle-school readers, so said young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan will Not be reading any of my work -- no matter where it's posted.

I write adult works for adult readers with college-level reading comprehension. If they don't understand something, or I cover a topic they don't know, Google is their friend.

I will never support bad writing habits. This only encourages new writers to think writing badly is acceptable when it is Not, especially if that new writer wants to become a published author.

Nor do I cater to bad reading habits. If the reader can't handle long chapters, then they can go read something else. I have more than enough readers to make up for the loss.

But that's just me.

You have your own readership to please.

 

[Bartun]

My chapters are between 7K and 8K words on average. I tried shorter chapters but it didn't work for me, either the pace feels rushed or it misses too many important details. I think you should write your chapters the way you think reads the best but that depends if you are aiming to gain more readers or not.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

That has always been the case with kids. If it exists in a textbook, it's considered an enemy to entertainment -- no matter how entertaining the story actually is.

That's only an example. Same applies when reading novels with lengthy chapters.

That's not your fault -- and it's never a good idea to Enable bad behavior.

It is. Though we're only a few against the sea.

Nice! Glad to meet you!

Lemme guess...you're also a 30+ y/o like me.

My chapters are between 7K and 8K words on average. I tried shorter chapters but it didn't work for me, either the pace feels rushed or it misses too many important details. I think you should write your chapters the way you think reads the best but that depends if you are aiming to gain more readers or not.

Same with me. 1k-2k words aren't enough for me to establish my settings and style, so I go with 4k. I did divide my chapters in Wattpad, though.

 

[SailusGebel]

LOL! No way -- I make an exemplary example!


Established authors have rather large readerships that write comments and emails to said authors with both positive and negative reviews.

In short, I know what my readers like, and don't like because I get a face full of it every time I post or publish. If sharing what I know can save a new reader the pain of learning it the hard way from their own readers, I consider it a win.

I have no idea how much of a joke your first sentence is, so I will ignore it. As for the second part, I think you made a typo? Secondly, you move the goalpost.

If that young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan plans to publish their work in the English language in the USA or Canadian markets, (I have publishers in both countries,) then they they would do well to listen to my advice. If not, then they can write as they please.

If that young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan is Reading English language stories, then it's the author's responsibility to write to the very best of their abilities with decent grammar, strong characterization, and good plotting. This way whatever translation program the young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan is using will translate the story in a Comprehensible manner as well as deliver an enjoyable tale.

Just for the record...

I have no interest in collecting Young Adult readers, or worse; middle-school readers, so said young teenager somewhere in Kazakhstan will Not be reading any of my work -- no matter where it's posted.

I write adult works for adult readers with college-level reading comprehension. If they don't understand something, or I cover a topic they don't know, Google is their friend.

I will never support bad writing habits. This only encourages new writers to think writing badly is acceptable when it is Not, especially if that new writer wants to become a published author.

Nor do I cater to bad reading habits. If the reader can't handle long chapters, then they can go read something else. I have more than enough readers to make up for the loss.

But that's just me.

You have your own readership to please.

This is irrelevant since I didn't mention AUTHORS. Nor did you.

Your readers can't digest 4000 to 6000 words chapters in one sitting?
-- What are they? Middle-school kids?

Quick reading on public transport, or during a break between classes is an Excuse -- not a Reason.

I'm from the era before web-novels existed. I had no problem reading paperbacks on the bus, the train, and during class. Popping in a bookmark then opening the book where I left off is easy and painless. Also, the average chapter in a paperback runs from 2500 words to 5000.

These days when reading on my phone, I simply save the page to my bookmarks and continue later. A little more complicated than a scrap of paper tucked between pages, but it still works the same.

We talk about readers. Readers that you insulted(in my opinion, it was an insult). You judge readers across the world, you judge people with different levels of English using yourself(an established author) as an example. I won't even mention how people have different reading habits and preferences, and how their health differs. If you can't comprehend the difference between yourself and everyone else(beside your readers, the world is bit bigger than that), and insist on calling a person who does not share your reading habit a middle-school kid, I have nothing else to add.

 

[OokamiKasumi]

I think you made a typo?

Yup, I did. Thanks for catching that.

Secondly, you move the goalpost.

There was a goalpost?

This is irrelevant since I didn't mention AUTHORS. Nor did you.

What are you saying? The entire post is about Authors and choosing whether or not they want to cut chapters into tiny 1000k bits.

My take is that 1000k is too small for a chapter, especially for those who read for pleasure, and yours appears to be that people whose first language is not English, or reading English translations would have a hard time with larger chapters.

We talk about readers. Readers that you insulted (in my opinion, it was an insult). You judge readers across the world, you judge people with different levels of English using yourself (an established author) as an example. I won't even mention how people have different reading habits and preferences, and how their health differs. If you can't comprehend the difference between yourself and everyone else (beside your readers, the world is bit bigger than that), and insist on calling a person who does not share your reading habit a middle-school kid, I have nothing else to add.

I do judge others by my reading level. So what? I'm not writing stories for World Comprehension, or English comprehension beginners. I'm writing for those who equal or top my level of reading comprehension; college-level English readers.

If my stories are too hard for readers with a lower level of English comprehension, then they can go read something simpler and easier to read, such as; middle-school level light novels with their simpler story structures, simpler character development, lack of description, and simpler vocabulary.

If that's considered an insult -- so be it.

JPN Light Novels were written for middle-school kids and early high-school young adults (grades: 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th -- the puberty years.)

These kids have a lower level of literacy, so the vocabulary of these books is Simplified to make comprehension easier. These books also have shorter word counts, 40k to 60k in length, to accomodate a kid's shorter attention span. Additionally, the plotting of these books tend to feed into a kid's wish-fulfillment of being all-powerful and/or sexually attractive to multiple people -- even if said books never cover how to properly handle either situation.

Light novels are Kids' Books. This is a Fact. This doesn't mean that adults aren't allowed to read light novels or like them. I happen to be very fond of the Harry Potter series which are also kids' books.

However...

There are manga clearly meant for adults with a far higher level of vocabulary, multi-layered characterizations, and far more convoluted plotting than found in Light Novels. Just off the top of my head; Gantz, Death Note, and Mahoutsukai no Yome/Ancient Magus Bride. They feature MCs that are In College, and all three manga use a much higher level of vocabulary than in the average light novel -- even in their English Translations.

None of this, however, means that you can't write light novels and enjoy the readership that love them.

It just means that "I" don't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[SailusGebel]

What are you saying? The entire post is about Authors and choosing whether or not they want to cut chapters into tiny 1000k bits.

Saying
Your readers can't digest 4000 to 6000 words chapters in one sitting?
-- What are they? Middle-school kids?
Is not about authors.

My take is that 1000k is too small for a chapter, especially for those who read for pleasure, and yours appears to be that people whose first language is not English, or reading English translations would have a hard time with larger chapters.

No. My take, web novels have more than one reason to be bite-sized. It's not about comprehension only. WEB novels, not JPN Light novels. If you look at the topmost reply on this page, the one you replied to initially, you will see these words.

The reason why web novels are even called web novels, and why they are bite-sized, in my understanding and I can be wrong, is because you can easily read them while riding a bus, or in a subway, you get what I mean. You do it on your phone. When you have ten minutes before arriving at your station, what are you going to do? Read half of 6000 words chapter? Meanwhile you can easily finish 2000 words chapter.

 

[OokamiKasumi]

Saying
"Your readers can't digest 4000 to 6000 words chapters in one sitting?
-- What are they? Middle-school kids?"
Is not about authors.

Actually it is. I'm asking about an author's readership; Hans.Trondheim's readership. Or rather, I was teasing Hans.Trondheim about their readership.

Turns out, his readers are middle-school to early high school kids.

No. My take, web novels have more than one reason to be bite-sized. It's not about comprehension only. WEB novels, not JPN Light novels.

There is only One reason for short chapters on web novel sites: Posting Schedule.

Most of the web novels on sites such as Royal Road and LiteNovel World have a weekly or bi-weekly (every other week,) posting schedule. This is especially true for the sites that charge their readers per chapter.

Additionally, most of the web novels posted on these sites are translations of previously published Chinese, Korean, and Japanese novels and web novels. Some sites, such as: WuxiaBox and ReadHive, post Only translations.

Translated web novels do tend to have short chapters because translations take time, and a week is not a lot of time to finish an entire chapter -- so they Don't. They translate what they can in that week, and post what they have ready.

Only a tiny percentage of stories on these sites are written by English language writers, and those stories tend to be exceptional. For example: Shadow Slave and My Vampire System. Neither of those titles uses short chapters, and their chapters tend to post bi-weekly.

Two weeks, is not a lot of time to write a whole chapter, so how are these author's doing it?

According to the sites I've contacted, the few web novel sites that do accept original English language work prefer completed stories, whole finished manuscripts already edited and ready to post.

As for the writers on ScribbleHub?

Last I checked, ScribbleHub does not have a Posting Schedule. Writers may post chapters whenever they feel like it. This means that there is no reason for writers to rush out their chapters if those chapters aren't ready -- or shorten them.

 

[Voidiris]

My students are perfect examples. Asking them to read a 500-word story from our textbooks is already a chore for them. And yes, while bookmarking a page is an option, they simply don't care/uninterested. The attitude of the education system, as well as other educators often contribute to the decline as well.

Well I'm a student myself and I feel like it's more because
First it's something you don't like like to do, would it always be a chore, no matter how difficult it is.
Second some just don't want to take part in the class.
Third (that's more of a personal reason) most stories I have seen in school are bad.
Fourth making reading a part of school makes it already a chore for most.

For example, because so many Translated stories are being cut down into 1000k chapters to rush posting, readers are learning to accept this as a Norm. Sadly, writers are picking up this trend too -- which is Why your post exists.

Indeed everyone influences everyone at anytime.

Many children (nowadays) have indeed a shorter attention span,
ignoring that children always had rather short ones,
there are those that have simply problems to pay attention at all,
like people with Adhs, I had friends with Adhs,
if they didn't do something they liked they couldn't concentrate at all.