Light and Heavy Novels

[Scribbler]

Okay, so, for me, the main difference between light novels and heavy (regular) novels, beyond the obvious use of more complicated language, is that light novels aren't really about anything, or they don't start off about anything, they're fluff. And heavy novels usually pretend to be about something, there's a driving force behind the narrative, they make the reader think they're going somewhere with a plot (regardless of whether they actually are or aren't), and more often than not, there are attempts at drama and real stakes.

Now there has been tell of light novels being automatically worse than heavy novels, but I am against that modus apprendi, I believe that they are both equally awful. But let me explain!

With heavy novels and their more complicated language and pretending to know what they're doing with the plot, there's a preconceived notion that they have more depth because of those surface things, but that's just not true. For you see, my internet friends, to have depth, they must succeed in paying off what they promise, in making the stakes matter, the plot seen to the end rightfully, and drama that makes you feel something. But, in the end, most all heavy novelists fail in all regards.

Now the strength in light novels, as it is for heavy novels, is the same as its weakness. The fluff of light novels precludes the need to pay off the promises made, because there are no promises, instead of a rising or falling arc, the story is a straight line. They'll never fail, but they'll never achieve the highs either.

Now I'm not saying all light novels and all heavy novels fit snuggly into these categories, simply that this is a generalization. I have read a few light novels that tried to do drama like heavy novels, and I've read some heavy novels that do fluff like light novels.

I suppose I must end this with a question. Do you prefer novels that never do anything, or novels that fail in trying something?

Personally, I don't like either.

 

[minacia]

I feel like for me, this is sort of a generalization about a medium. There are many mediums for expressing art (I.e. watercolor, film, poetry), and I would argue there aren’t mediums that are inherently static in the way that you described.

Rather, in most cases it’s more about the artist then what particular medium they choose to employ for a certain work of art.

A really amazing artist can still create incredible art using crayons (or even trash), so imo it’s not really fair to say that crayons can’t produce meaningful art compared to oil painting.

Certain industries — like comic books and manga — have long received criticism for being not fine art enough... but anyone into these genres might fiercely defend their genre pointing to very artful and profound works, such as tatami galaxy (to name drop an anime) that can compete with more literary works.

 

[Scribbler]

@minacia I suppose I explained it badly.

Light and heavy novels are not the way they are because that's the way they are, but because of how people perceive them to be. They think if I'm going to write a light novel, then it should be light, and if I'm going to write a heavy novel, then it should be heavy. And because of this, the cycle continues and creates a generalized norm. So most novels in those two categories follow those norms.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

The difference between light novels and heavy novels is whether you use a bipod or tripod.

Spoiler: Bipod

If you use a bipod, you are a Light Novel.

Spoiler: Tripod

If you use a tripod, you are a Heavy Novel.

Spoiler: Kneeling

And if you fire from kneeling, you are a Webnovel.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Okay, so, for me, the main difference between light novels and heavy (regular) novels, beyond the obvious use of more complicated language, is that light novels aren't really about anything, or they don't start off about anything, they're fluff. And heavy novels usually pretend to be about something, there's a driving force behind the narrative, they make the reader think they're going somewhere with a plot (regardless of whether they actually are or aren't), and more often than not, there are attempts at drama and real stakes.

Now there has been tell of light novels being automatically worse than heavy novels, but I am against that modus apprendi, I believe that they are both equally awful. But let me explain!

With heavy novels and their more complicated language and pretending to know what they're doing with the plot, there's a preconceived notion that they have more depth because of those surface things, but that's just not true. For you see, my internet friends, to have depth, they must succeed in paying off what they promise, in making the stakes matter, the plot seen to the end rightfully, and drama that makes you feel something. But, in the end, most all heavy novelists fail in all regards.

Now the strength in light novels, as it is for heavy novels, is the same as its weakness. The fluff of light novels precludes the need to pay off the promises made, because there are no promises, instead of a rising or falling arc, the story is a straight line. They'll never fail, but they'll never achieve the highs either.

Now I'm not saying all light novels and all heavy novels fit snuggly into these categories, simply that this is a generalization. I have read a few light novels that tried to do drama like heavy novels, and I've read some heavy novels that do fluff like light novels.

I suppose I must end this with a question. Do you prefer novels that never do anything, or novels that fail in trying something?

Personally, I don't like either.

i dunno, man. First off, why do you say they fail? End rightfully? its not up to you to decide how other people's stories end, and there are certainly bad ways to end a story but I don't believe in a wrong way. That aside, I think of the words "heavy novels" and I think of western stories. Not the genre, but those made from western authors and published through legit publishing companies. Something along the lines of Harry Potter and whatnot.

You can clearly tell that as a whole, those kind of novels are much more description-heavy. Whereas asian novels and in particular Japanese novels are a lot more bare bones.

Im a bit irritated you put light novels and heavy novels into categories like, "never do anything " and "fail at what they try." Yes, its a generalization but I find that wayyyy to much of one. Kinda insulting too. its like, "well who the fuck are you to say that?" you know? since there's oodles of stories from both that accomplish telling a compelling story.

My problem with the first category is that this fits a specific genre. Slice of life. But you're seeming to try and apply it to light novels as a whole. As for failing at what "heavy" novels do...well again why do you say that? I wont say you cant have this opinion, my dude. But what do you mean by that?

Cuz most heavy novels do seem to have some underlying lesson or story the author tries to tell. Like for example, Cyberpunk 2077 is heavily political and is essentially a story that warns about corporate greed and the dangers of allowing it to take over entire cities. That the underlying story, warning, and lesson once you take away the cool gun and sword fights.

Is that what you mean? That they fail to adequately portray, or bring to a close, these underlying themes? Cuz I dunno how that would make sense. Maybe I just didn't read your post well enough tho

 

[Scribbler]

i dunno, man. First off, why do you say they fail? End rightfully? its not up to you to decide how other people's stories end, and there are certainly bad ways to end a story but I don't believe in a wrong way. That aside, I think of the words "heavy novels" and I think of western stories. Not the genre, but those made from western authors and published through legit publishing companies. Something along the lines of Harry Potter and whatnot.

You can clearly tell that as a whole, those kind of novels are much more description-heavy. Whereas asian novels and in particular Japanese novels are a lot more bare bones.

Im a bit irritated you put light novels and heavy novels into categories like, "never do anything " and "fail at what they try." Yes, its a generalization but I find that wayyyy to much of one. Kinda insulting too. its like, "well who the fuck are you to say that?" you know? since there's oodles of stories from both that accomplish telling a compelling story.

My problem with the first category is that this fits a specific genre. Slice of life. But you're seeming to try and apply it to light novels as a whole. As for failing at what "heavy" novels do...well again why do you say that? I wont say you cant have this opinion, my dude. But what do you mean by that?

Cuz most heavy novels do seem to have some underlying lesson or story the author tries to tell. Like for example, Cyberpunk 2077 is heavily political and is essentially a story that warns about corporate greed and the dangers of allowing it to take over entire cities. That the underlying story, warning, and lesson once you take away the cool gun and sword fights.

Is that what you mean? That they fail to adequately portray, or bring to a close, these underlying themes? Cuz I dunno how that would make sense. Maybe I just didn't read your post well enough tho

How do you like cyberpunk 2077? A lot of people are pissed off at the bugs, and some more are saying they promised a world with way more depth and choice than they delivered. How about the length? Did it feel right?

 

[CupcakeNinja]

How do you like cyberpunk 2077? A lot of people are pissed off at the bugs, and some more are saying they promised a world with way more depth and choice than they delivered. How about the length? Did it feel right?

its an amazing game if you dont experience many bugs. They made the dumbfuck choice to optimize it for new gen consoles and high-end PCs when there arent many people who have such devices. So the hundreds of millions of people with ps4s and x box ones got screwed over and are experiencing near game-breaking bugs.

But if you got a ps5, series x or a good PC, then yes its great.

Just understand that this isn't some open world masterpiece that simply revolutionizes the industry. Its not like in Skyrim where you can enter most any building, and the driving is a bit weak. Its not at all similar to how FFXV did it, which I thought it would be like given what I saw of the gameplay in the deep dives...and I'm a bit disappointed in that, too. Cuz the driving I wanted to be smooth and tight and its not.

Instead, Cyberpunk is a futuristic GTA but with awesome combat, romance, and much more freedom of choice. Nothing more or less...and I FUCKING LOVE THAT BRO. I been wanting that since forever. Its perfectly what I wanted and mostly what I expected It to be. The only disappoint part was the driving, but i don't race anyway. I just felt that doing it how FFXV did would make sense in a big city. You could just cruise and enjoy the scenery. But instead you gotta make sure you don't crash. LOL.

The story is the best aspect of the game, and it shows. The characters too. Gameplay-wise its nothing game changing or unique. Character-building wise it offer a lot of freedom to customize a playstyle that suits you. Personally i think the mantis blades are the best thing ever. Makes me feel like a goddamn ninja...

But anyway yeah that's the game in a nutshell. Futuristic GTA, but wayyyy better than GTA in general.

If you don't have a new game system or good PC, tho...maybe take the risk of a really buggy game at your own peril.

CDPR will make the game even better, and this is exactly what happened when W3 first launched so im not worried. LIke i said its just that they made bad choices and dropped the ball. They lost a fuck ton of money here, im sure. Like i said, they neglected the ps4 and xbox market by not optimizing the game for those consoles first. Really don't make sense since so many people have those consoles already and so few have the new ones.. So someone really fucked up. Cyberpunk could have had a stellar launch, but impatience from the gamers and investors drove CDPR to release this prematurely.

EDIT: imma admit that I'm one of those who kinda got really mad at CDPR for the delays...but IN MY DEFENCE...I trusted their words. They told us "yeah the game is done we just have a couple bugs to iron out." And it simply wasn't done. Yet because I trusted their words, as they built up a lot of goodwill up to then, i was angry since i thought the only reason they delayed was so that they can make the launch close to Christmas where people are most likely to buy the new next-gen console alongside the most hyped game of the decade. So that's why. I mean i didn't hate them for wanting to maximize profits, i was just mad cuz i thought they were lying to us about it. If they had just said they wanted to release the game at the most optimal time for them i wouldn't have complained...ahem. Much. Kek.

 

[Scribbler]

its an amazing game if you dont experience many bugs. They made the dumbfuck choice to optimize it for new gen consoles and high-end PCs when there arent many people who have such devices. So the hundreds of millions of people with ps4s and x box ones got screwed over and are experiencing near game-breaking bugs.

But if you got a ps5, series x or a good PC, then yes its great.

Just understand that this isn't some open world masterpiece that simply revolutionizes the industry. Its not like in Skyrim where you can enter most any building, and the driving is a bit weak. Its not at all similar to how FFXV did it, which I thought it would be like given what I saw of the gameplay in the deep dives...and I'm a bit disappointed in that, too. Cuz the driving I wanted to be smooth and tight and its not.

Instead, Cyberpunk is a futuristic GTA but with awesome combat, romance, and much more freedom of choice. Nothing more or less...and I FUCKING LOVE THAT BRO. I been wanting that since forever. Its perfectly what I wanted and mostly what I expected It to be. The only disappoint part was the driving, but i don't race anyway. I just felt that doing it how FFXV did would make sense in a big city. You could just cruise and enjoy the scenery. But instead you gotta make sure you don't crash. LOL.

The story is the best aspect of the game, and it shows. The characters too. Gameplay-wise its nothing game changing or unique. Character-building wise it offer a lot of freedom to customize a playstyle that suits you. Personally i think the mantis blades are the best thing ever. Makes me feel like a goddamn ninja...

But anyway yeah that's the game in a nutshell. Futuristic GTA, but wayyyy better than GTA in general.

If you don't have a new game system or good PC, tho...maybe take the risk of a really buggy game at your own peril.

CDPR will make the game even better, and this is exactly what happened when W3 first launched so im not worried. LIke i said its just that they made bad choices and dropped the ball. They lost a fuck ton of money here, im sure. Like i said, they neglected the ps4 and xbox market by not optimizing the game for those consoles first. Really don't make sense since so many people have those consoles already and so few have the new ones.. So someone really fucked up. Cyberpunk could have had a stellar launch, but impatience from the gamers and investors drove CDPR to release this prematurely.

Yeah, I think a lot of people dislike the game because of expectations, which is half their fault, but also half the marketing team's.

The gaming industry is so big that triple a game developers are just one of many parts of what makes a game a success or not, what with the hype and investors and marketing teams. Not to mention all the teams of people actually making the game.

Games are so fucking complicated. Like, I think about making games, but then I think about how writing a novel is so much simpler, and while gameplay is fun, I mostly just care about telling a story.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Yeah, I think a lot of people dislike the game because of expectations, which is half their fault, but also half the marketing team's.

The gaming industry is so big that triple a game developers are just one of many parts of what makes a game a success or not, what with the hype and investors and marketing teams. Not to mention all the teams of people actually making the game.

Games are so fucking complicated. Like, I think about making games, but then I think about how writing a novel is so much simpler, and while gameplay is fun, I mostly just care about telling a story.

the deep dives and trailers were misleading a bit, sure. But yeah its mainly the overhype. I mean I wont say a person cant overhype over a game or anything else, but I'm also gonna tell them to shut the hell up if they later complain they were so let down. Especially if the product is actually decent. Cuz then they're just bitching and moaning due to their own sky high expectations and not appreciating the product being perfectly fine for what it is.

I think about making webtoons/manga sometimes myself. Just because I feel that's one of the best ways to portray some of my writing. Since my main story I wrote in a really unconventional way (yes, I do admit I started writing while high nearly halfway through) in addition to it being meant to just be chaotic and fun. I think it would just be received better in a webtoon or manga format. On the other hand doing it the way I did has allowed me to master the meme-to-text format. And that story did survive off the memes in its early days, lemme tell ya. People loved em.

But anyway my artistic skills are nonexistent and even if they were great im too much of a lazy cunt to spend all that time drawing when i barely get out a chapter a week these days.

 

[K5Rakitan]

*shrugs* Just give me polyandry, and I'm good.

 

[pyrak]

Frankly as a rule of thumb, they generally are, or at least novels that I see as light novels generally are. I also mostly associate light novels with a particular style of writing which leaves much to be wanted and often doesn't fill in the world around the characters, and completely butchers English grammar (long story short, my perception of what a light novel is is based off of translated Japanese light novels).

Also you're wrong about light novels not having plot and promises. In fact the best ones clearly have them.

Here's a Wikipedia page to read, make sure to read the history section, a fair number of modern popular manga are based off of light novels.