Senpai has noticed you! The thread where veteran writers guide their new apprentices!

[Yorth]

OK! So I have noticed something. We have a lot of authors who are just starting out and really want to get better at their craft. At the same time, we have lots of authors who spent years writing and honed their skills! So, I was thinking why not have the two meet? The veteran authors get to share their knowledge and get some street-cred while the new ones learn to become better writers!

If you're interested in becoming either a Senpai or a Kouhai, please post a comment on this thread in this format.

Position: Senpai/Kouhai
Genre: What genre you're interested in.
Experience (required only if you wanna be a Senpai):

Now, let the family of senpais and kouhais grow!

 

[Kotohood]

First!

Edit: I don't want to join, I just want to observe!

 

[Moonpearl]

Is there anyone here actually qualified to be purely guiding, though...?

 

[Alverost]

Is there anyone here actually qualified to be purely guiding, though...?

There's two Mentor on the discord server.

 

[Moonpearl]

There's two Mentor on the discord server.

I can see people signing up for the job, sure, but talking the talk and walking the walk are two different things.

There's nothing wrong with taking turns giving advice and feedback to other writers, whether less experienced or more, but anybody taking a stance of "I have finished learning and can now tell others exactly how to write" is sitting on a throne of lies.

 

[Alverost]

I can see people signing up for the job, sure, but talking the talk and walking the walk are two different things.

There's nothing wrong with taking turns giving advice and feedback to other writers, whether less experienced or more, but anybody taking a stance of "I have finished learning and can now tell others exactly how to write" is sitting on a throne of lies.

The two mentors on discord are well experienced and a lot of people have gotten help from them. Plus one of them is professional in the industry.

 

[Moonpearl]

The two mentors on discord are well experienced and a lot of people have gotten help from them. Plus one of them is professional in the industry.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with giving advice, but putting yourself purely in that role in a community - as this thread suggests - is pretty unhealthy.

 

[Scribbler]

Personally, I would value beta readers much more than "veteran authors". Most advice writers give other writers is about prose. And that's basically useless to anyone who knows the english language well enough, since advice on prose is almost always subjective once a new writer isn't a bad writer. Good writers will tell new writers big picture advice, like this didn't work or that could be done better; something beta readers can also do.

Another reason beta readers are better than "veteran writers" is because other writers tend to ignore actually trying to read the work as a reader and instead focus solely on looking for mistakes in prose. This was basically my entire experience with the scribblehub discord.

While, yes, there may be one writer who is good enough to not give terrible advice, those are only the ones truly good enough to have forgotten all the shit they've learned, which are very few.

My point is that beta readers accomplish the same job and are, in theory, far more abundant.

 

[NiQuinn]

As I said, there's nothing wrong with giving advice, but putting yourself purely in that role in a community - as this thread suggests - is pretty unhealthy.

It does seem rather hierarchical rather than a purely mentor-mentee relationship

 

[Moonpearl]

It does seem rather hierarchical rather than a purely mentor-mentee relationship

Right? I'm a "veteran writer" and I still find the advice of people just starting to write invaluable as I grow and learn. There's already not enough free-flowing discussion in this forum without trying to create a class of "untouchable, master senpais" with the assigned role of "telling" people what to do.

Even published authors who have been writing for decades can mess up and are reliant on feedback from others - especially their readers. Writers who start thinking that they know best and are above other writers/their audience very quickly start spiralling downwards (e.g. J.K. Rowling or the entire writing staff of Dragon Age 2).
I just don't think it's healthy for new writers OR old writers to start adopting the attitudes that are being hinted at in this system.

 

[Arexio]

This was basically my entire experience with the scribblehub discord.

Oh. Scribbler is still around. I see.

 

[binarysoap]

I'm slightly confused about the arguments here. Is the issue that senpai/kouhai implies a strict hierarchical relationship? Is the issue just a name change then?

Also,
Position: The one that mainly gets advice.
Genre (in alphabetical order): Action/Adult/Adventure/BL/Fantasy/Genderbender/GL/Isekai/SliceOfLife
Experience: Random short stories for var. competitions

 

[Scribbler]

OK! So I have noticed something. We have a lot of authors who are just starting out and really want to get better at their craft. At the same time, we have lots of authors who spent years writing and honed their skills! So, I was thinking why not have the two meet? The veteran authors get to share their knowledge and get some street-cred while the new ones learn to become better writers!

If you're interested in becoming either a Senpai or a Kouhai, please post a comment on this thread in this format.

Position: Senpai/Kouhai
Genre: What genre you're interested in.
Experience (required only if you wanna be a Senpai):

Now, let the family of senpais and kouhais grow!

What are the minimum requirements to be qualified as a, *cough cough*, senpai?

 

[Yorth]

What are the minimum requirements to be qualified as a, *cough cough*, senpai?

No minimum. Just post what you believe to be your expertise and what you've done in it and if someone wants to be your kouhai, voila!

 

[maharlika]

haha, i'm a huuuge procrastinator sooo. . .

position: kouhai
genre: bl and fantasyyyy

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Maybe....

imagines the situation..
....
..
.
Me: Have you ever heard of the story of... *looks around* *panics* ... Darth Plagueis The Wise?
Kouhai : No?

[Three months later]

Kouhai: I HATE! YOU I WANT TO KILL YOU!!!

*me abandoning kouhai in lava pit*


...
..
.

Now that I think about it
maybe not....

 

[PrincessFelicie]

I can tutor in fantasy GL gender bending. Most specifically from a trans perspective. The issue is most people in need of tutoring for that kind of story probably wouldn't take my advice, and those that would take it mostly don't need it, lol

 

[m_augus00]

Hmm, I am writing Fantasy, no Gender Blender elements in my novel to be honest, but if you would like to guide me.
I would love your guidance, veteran writer.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Or, and here's a the clinch, just give advice once in a while. Hear something great, just put it on the thread, let the new guys walk in on accident and find a gold mine.

No need for hierarchies or shit, just put good stuff on where everyone can benefit from without building anyone shrines.

 

[Moonpearl]

I'm slightly confused about the arguments here. Is the issue that senpai/kouhai implies a strict hierarchical relationship? Is the issue just a name change then?

Not just the name, but the way that this system is presented. It puts "veteran writers" on a pedastel and, since they can only be "senpais" and can't double up as a "kouhai" to someone else, it implies that they already know everything and stops learning from flowing both ways.

I'm also highly sceptical about people here "guiding" others in the first place. My English lecturers at university would always refuse to answer the question "How do you write an essay?" because it's impossible to tell someone else how to write one - there are just too many ways that are all valid. Instead, they could only tell us what they thought we'd done wrong after we'd written one and have us learn from that.
Now, those were academic essays that had a rough field standard; the big wide world of creative writing is even more individualistic. You can give your personal feedback on a story, but you can't tell someone how to write. Does everyone who's going to sign up to be a "senpai" properly understand that?

My concern is basically that this could force an artificial split between older and newer writers on the forum, do more harm than good to new writers, and be nothing more than an undeserved ego trip for so-called "veterans".

I can tutor in fantasy GL gender bending. Most specifically from a trans perspective. The issue is most people in need of tutoring for that kind of story probably wouldn't take my advice, and those that would take it mostly don't need it, lol

If you want to help people out with GL or need help with writing GL, there's the Yuri Writing Help Room here: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threads/the-yuri-writing-help-room-18.754/

We're always in need of more experienced ladies to share their opinions and advice~!