System novels are annoying

[ElijahRyne]

Is it me being bias or system novels are quite disgusting. I know it is good when used proficiently or related to the plot but most authors I see use it as a form of power up button and a plot hole solver. It's very frustating to see a good premise but then a system comes in and just destroy the power scaling in less than 1 minute of reading. So I wanna hear some opinions to others about this because it gets tiring to think about it. I wanna know whenever game systems in novels are good or bad.

If the system is a McGuffin then it will rarely help make the story better, outside of a comedy. Where did the system come from? How does it work? Why does it matter to the story? If these questions are answered then the system tends to work if not…
In general, if the system doesn’t make sense in the context of the story, then it probably won’t work when reading.

 

[lnv]

Is it me being bias or system novels are quite disgusting. I know it is good when used proficiently or related to the plot but most authors I see use it as a form of power up button and a plot hole solver. It's very frustating to see a good premise but then a system comes in and just destroy the power scaling in less than 1 minute of reading. So I wanna hear some opinions to others about this because it gets tiring to think about it. I wanna know whenever game systems in novels are good or bad.

What do you mean by system novels? Do you mean like when MC is the host and gets a system unique to them only? or litrpg?

While Host based system novels are pretty much the MC getting perks that destroy the power scaling, litrpg is not. If anything. litrpg is suppose to keep power in balance. Of course that doesn't stop authors from adding unique skills that break the rules or abusing a common skill in a weird way. But in that case, how is it different than any other novel? What's the difference between a broken skill and the power of friendship? or pretty much any other excuse for making MC op?

 

[Premier]

I agree, it often becomes people just throwing numbers at each other, which is rather boring to read.


If I write RPG system worlds I like to keep the skills vague enough that their power limits and uses aren't clearly defined. Basically superpowers by another name. Helps you keep some tension and rewards creativity beyond "Use Incredibly Powerful Spell on Boss until HP = 0"

A rare few manage to elevate beyond that and are rather fun to read, but they're usually an exception sadly.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Is it me being bias or system novels are quite disgusting. I know it is good when used proficiently or related to the plot but most authors I see use it as a form of power up button and a plot hole solver. It's very frustating to see a good premise but then a system comes in and just destroy the power scaling in less than 1 minute of reading. So I wanna hear some opinions to others about this because it gets tiring to think about it. I wanna know whenever game systems in novels are good or bad.

It's definitely a bias, sorry. But you clearly aren't the only person who doesn't like them, so...

Like with any genre or gimmick in writing, it can be used well or used poorly. Some people can read the poor examples and still enjoy it, and some people will remember those failures even when they're reading a good example. It's just personal taste.

---

My personal feeling on systems... I don't like RPGs. A lot of the time, they actually limit the character's potential. For example. In a class based system, you'll be restricted to a certain class and skills associated with that class. If you use magic, you can't use armor. If you use healing, you can't sneak. Stuff like that feels stupid to me, because it's an artificial difficulty.

Most systems limit the character in some way, either by forcing them into a particular 'playstyle', or by making them chase after currency(experience, levels). Which is kind of perfect for authors, and why I'm not too fussed with it. The character was always going to go down that path, because the plot demands it. It doesn't hinder the author, it just gives the reader some numbers to geek out over.

kind of like So I'm a spider, so what?
LN SPOILER ALERT :

Spoiler: Volume 9-10(?)

To become a god is to break free of the world's system. Kumoko achieved godhood after swallowing an atomic bomb, but lost access of her skill because she's no longer hooked onto the system. But she doesn't lose it, she just can't use it like she used to (cast it through the system). She just need to learn how use the skills with her thought without the help of a system, which she accidentally did when she got drunk.

Basically, the system is basically a limiter in that world.

wasnt the system not even real power either? Wasnt it basically just a bunch of god code that says this attack does this damage instead of havinga real effect

The system in Kumo Desu was designed to create gods. It's a crutch that allows hopelessly useless individuals (like humans) to gain 'Skills'. These skills manipulate the soul in a way that allows the person to use magic or other types of power.

The goal was for people to learn to use their skills without the system's guidance. But since the Creator never bothered to tell them that, they all just used it without learning from it. They took it for granted. The MC was the only person who ever (successfully) used it for its intended purpose.

[That I remember anyways. I only read the Web Novel and it was a while ago, so other characters might have used it, and some info might be different in the LN or Anime.]

 

[BearlyAlive]

Yup, they sure are annoying. In most cases they're either catered for MC only despite being central parts of the world for at least a few millenia or are exclusively for MC to teabag the powerscaling.

My problem is that most of those "systems" try to emulate D&D, DQ, MMOs, etc. while totally ignoring that the reader isn't the one controlling the progression. They want the reader to feel like they're playing the best game ever, only destroy that illusion the moment writing continues.

Let's look at the most standard of RPG systems ever:
-You start with 6 to 12 stats
-a class list that gets unneccessarily long to show how awesome a character is
-then a needlessly long list of skills the character almost never uses
-titles that are only there to brag
-maybe even a convulted deity or blessing system as well, just so MC and party can get even more OP than they already are
The problem is most of it is just bloated background noise and almost never has any relevance outside of being mc guffins or deus ex devices.

And don't get me started on the action in those novels. Most of these ignore the hard rules they previously established to make the writing more interesting during action scenes.

The actual way to write within a system novel would need to be like this:

"Heroic Hero (Title) blessed by too many gods to list (blessings) Prota Gonist <Level 420> blocked the 69 strenght attack of the Ordinary quality Canis Lupus Magicuzwhythefucknot Wolf <Level too loe> with his 112435465768579680seggs95847365267384695706809584736 trillion defense, he then used his 1234567890987654 agility to use his High Quality Epic Longsword of Epciness+420 to us a strenght 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 attack and drop its HP to -99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999."

And that not only looks shit, it reads worse than even the writing assignment of a primary schooler.


But my main problem is that people other than MC are always accepting the system as a given, never questioning it, never actively trying to go against or outright ignoring it. When the system says "Goodking the Pure's class is War Criminal" despite there not being a war or the person never commiting crimes, then PLOT and suddenly Goodking the Pure does both war and crimes because ThE SyStEm dOeS nOt NeEd InDiViDuAlS oNlY PlOt DeViCeS.

 

[Brandondee]

I used to not like them but I’ve started to come around on them over the past couple of weeks. I think that it appeals to me more when they use a system in an interesting way.

For example, I’m reading a story on another site about a system that helps a guy to understand and manage a soccer team better. Another story on here has a system that rewards a guy for building up a harem and getting the girls to try new kinky stuff.

I normally wouldn’t try reading a football story or erotica, but the systems really help to keep those stories interesting for me. It turns reality on its head while still feeling mostly familiar.

 

[ZackRPG]

I liked a lot of system novels, but I stopped liking them I noticed that many authors abused the system.

what I hate most about systems is when they give rewards for things they shouldn't.

An example would be when someone is given a quest to survive (Insert Inevitable Event) and given rewards for doing so when they are supposed to try to survive without any quest anyway.

Another example would be a quest to use (insert consumable item that empowers the user) and they still give you rewards for doing it, or they give you easy quests that you can accomplish without even trying or for doing ridiculous things having nothing to do with the plot.

 

[Le_ther]

I used to not like them but I’ve started to come around on them over the past couple of weeks. I think that it appeals to me more when they use a system in an interesting way.

For example, I’m reading a story on another site about a system that helps a guy to understand and manage a soccer team better. Another story on here has a system that rewards a guy for building up a harem and getting the girls to try new kinky stuff.

I normally wouldn’t try reading a football story or erotica, but the systems really help to keep those stories interesting for me. It turns reality on its head while still feeling mostly familiar.

Ah yes king of the mound

 

[PeacefulMyst]

Solo Leveling: good

and thats where you are wrong

what I hate most about systems is when they give rewards for things they shouldn't.

Whenever i see Titles given as a reward, i know it will be dogshit

 

[Brandondee]

Ah yes king of the mound

I was talking about Player Manager on RR, but I’ll check that one out too

 

[Paul_Tromba]

and thats where you are wrong

You are also wrong for not reading further to know that I said "and bad" right after.

 

[PeacefulMyst]

You are also wrong for not reading further to know that I said "and bad" right after.

(ps. it was a joke)

 

[Paul_Tromba]

(ps. it was a joke)

I figured.

 

[unknownking]

Is it me being bias or system novels are quite disgusting. I know it is good when used proficiently or related to the plot but most authors I see use it as a form of power up button and a plot hole solver. It's very frustating to see a good premise but then a system comes in and just destroy the power scaling in less than 1 minute of reading. So I wanna hear some opinions to others about this because it gets tiring to think about it. I wanna know whenever game systems in novels are good or bad.

Systems (or rather lit-Rpg) are always used for reassurance of making progress, which is more complicated inncases where they do not exist.

For example: making a 1% progress in understanding an element.
This is quite easy to achieve with a system+ the MC can use these clue to dwell deeper into the matter making more progress and so forth.

In cases where systems do not exist, is it even possible to realize such a "progress"? It would be lost on the MC and on the reader. The MC would still be in the dark, until reaching a point where one can say: "I'm making progress."

Another example would be regarding "clues." Picking the right leaf up might give you a small increment on your progress Bar regarding tracking someone. This would reassure you to continue your path.

If I am honest I don't like system novels either since the MC rely on them too much. Most MC's are nothing without the systems.

The MC of my fav novel openly admits to the reader that he is only capable of using most magic abilities bc the system imprints the knowledge into him, meaning he himself cannot even really cast anything on the Level of mid Tier magic if he was left to his own device.

 

[georgelee5786]

acts of terrorism

...I was not aware the MC from RP1 was a terrorist

 

[Notadate]

I just used my system as a bbeg. It’s quest to spread itself is actually unbeneficial to nature. Also it ruins the fetish of a side character and now his whole goal is to destroy it, and the mc is just there. Dunno what’s happening
-
I used to like the stories till my birth right kicked in and said “HOW FUCK DOES THAT SHIT WORK. WHERE ARE THE PHYSIC!” So I hate any system that is too gamey. Hp, Stamina, Mp is fine (Depends on context). Skills ruins my immersion, because most systems make me feel that isnt hard earn power of the mc. I want my mc’s to work for their shit. Also stats are fucking stupid, if done wrong.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

See, the thing is, where is the line? I have hints of a system, but so far have not done the status screen shitck. I'm saving that for the next book, Lord edgelord, lord of the edge. However I am dropping hints of an underlying system.

For example, you are born with the standard 4 nucleotides, but as you gain experience points, you gain more "DNA", but that is maturation nucleotides. Those four new nucleotides correspond to law chaos, good evil, in a generic sense.

However, DNA is just the physical representation of monads. (Now we're getting into the physics of things)

So, if you gain more DNA that can be measured to show your total amount of good and evil acts, is that LitRPG?

 

[CarburetorThompson]

system novel sounds like some boring programmer stuff

 

[A2Remedy]

Well, I'm sort of doing that but not really. My characters are under the influence of a sentient interactive system but what I did to separate its influence is that they can play the game where the stats are fully working in their avatars/vessels like a regulars game while only a very small portion is able to reflect their person so, In-game (100%), real life (0.5%) but, skills are still something they have a chance of use and if they come up with something they could make a skill.

I thought it'd be easier this way as 1. The world is not under the influence of the system, it's just them.

2. I was going to have most of their adventure take place in-game/ an in-between area where the game stats are (50%). And it's not like they all check it willy-nilly cause most of them are traumatized by the system they used to know in comparison to this. Even with some not having a recollection. Like one of my MCs will accept quests but, hasn't done anything else while the other uses it freely to try to get stronger fast.

I do already have the major consequence established but I gotta think of some minor ones once they reach a certain point. You could say the system they knew was more like Kyuubey from Madoka Magica and this one is trying to make up for their... mistakes... while getting something out of it themselves, of course. :3

I'm taking it easy now but, the way I'm so ready to run them through a freight train from hell has me worried. XD

 

[NOTkaosin21]

i feel personally called out
however, i feel as if my litrpg doesn't really delve too deep into the statistics and numbers portion of the whole system thing. i try to keep the fight scenes with action instead of numbers

its called

"I Was Beat Up in an Alleyway and Woke Up in a Dungeon With a System"​

if anyone wanted to check it out