The inherent toxicity in the online space

[minacia]

Words can have a lot of impact on some people. You can't just barge in and say that you "despise weak people" and that "people are just too sheltered" without expecting people to disagree with that.

This is the kind of garbage ideology that can end up hurting a lot of people. You may not think one message on a forum can have that much impact, but this thread has been viewed more than 2000 times as of right now. Even if some people have read it several times, that's still a shit load of people. And that stuff happens in lots of places, it accumulates for the targeted people who have to suffer through these ideas everywhere they go.

Personally, calling people sheltered and weak and then right after playing the victim card on their profile and in this thread is really what rubbed me the wrong way about all this. Can't be more ironic than that. I would have left it at my first message if it hadn't been for the whole subsequent guilt trip and everything else.


When you're processing your feelings you usually are open to counterarguments, you do not fly the handle the moment someone disagrees with you. Scribbler fucked up here. You're responsible for the shit you write on the internet, especially if you start harassing people with private messages and accusations the moment someone disagrees with you. Excusing it as "processing" is just as harmful as the message in itself.


I really don't like this mindset at all. You do not have to respect harmful opinions just because they are in minority. I'll agree on the fact that people, including myself, reacted strongly to this thread, but I also think it was justified, considering what was being said.

In conclusion, if you're processing harmful thoughts about despising "weak people" for leaving Royal Road's toxic environment in favor of somewhere more accomodating, do it in private. NOT on the fucking public forum where all these people can be found. Think about what you say before you say it.

I do think the response to this thread is understandable (I'm certainly not faulting anyone), although I was trying to do what I could to add any context for anyone who read/perceived Scribbler in a way that probably isn't him.

For instance... I don't really think he is actively or intentionally trying to guilt trip anyone or play the victim card.

He's sort of chronically that way... probably to an unhealthy extent. Normally he doesn't get this much attention on NUF.

I also think you've sort of misunderstood the hating weakness thing. To me, he's sort of addressing himself (i.e. I hate weak people => I hate my own weakness => I need to be strong"), so the type of response that Scribbler is getting in this thread really isn't helping him... That's what I mean by processing. Like he isn't really coming from a privileged position and people misunderstood his perspective (and from my own understanding he's not even really that much of an RR author........)

I really don't like this mindset at all. You do not have to respect harmful opinions just because they are in minority.

Finally, about this... I don't respect harmful opinions, but I do respect the person behind them... if that makes sense.

Like I have enormous disagreements with my parents about lots of things, but I still care about them and recognize that they don't always mean negatively. Of course, nobody is obligated to give that kind of consideration for strangers, but it's different for me since I've known Scribbler on NUF for a while.

 

[Aoibh]

I'm the most toxic person here. Good Day.

 

[EternalSunset0]

To me, he's sort of addressing himself (i.e. I hate weak people => I hate my own weakness => I need to be strong")

That's honestly a big leap tbh. Nowhere in his original posts was a phrase or anything that implies the self-loathing part, and in a public forum where most people do not know him like you do, that's pretty costly.

I know almost nobody here to have formed my own biases or an extra layer of context, but I saw it similar to what the offended people did. If a neutral party with no context sees it that way, there must be something wrong with the wording or approach, and I think Scribbler would benefit from working on that.

Confrontation is just not my thing, but I can see the source of the hate and all.

Thanks for the added context regardless.

 

[minacia]

That's honestly a big leap tbh. Nowhere in his original posts was a phrase or anything that implies the self-loathing part, and in a public forum where most people do not know him like you do, that's pretty costly.

I know almost nobody here to have formed my own biases or an extra layer of context, but I saw it similar to what the offended people did. If a neutral party with no context sees it that way, there must be something wrong with the wording or approach, and I think Scribbler would benefit from working on that.

Confrontation is just not my thing, but I can see the source of the hate and all.

Thanks for the added context regardless.

Sure! I don't think it's something that's readily apparent either.

I just can't help but keep cringing over this thread.

...Maybe I said too much.

 

[Leti]

I'm the most toxic person here. Good Day.

Toxic people don't know they're toxic. You're not toxic, you're alkaline.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Just f*ck the world, f*ck the billionaires, f*ck the narcissists who loves to see people suffer. I know we need to adjust based on the environment, the world is not fair that's why I hate reality. I hope I'll die and get isekai'ed. Is anybody there knows how to isekai?

This guy has my vote.

 

[Aoibh]

Toxic people don't know they're toxic. You're not toxic, you're alkaline.

ಠ╭╮ಠ I wanted to be special

 

[Leek]

I'm sorry, that was too mean. I do like you as a person. I love your use of or. Like, I can really see you're a writer with how varied and specific you want your vocabulary to be.

I think you're super cute.

I'm sorry, I never listened to my chemical romance. I was never a music person. I just listened to whatever was popular.

You're also super pretty.

You're super cute too.

I'm sorry about being so mean. *dogeza*

I am prob gonna leave the site just cuz there's nothing for me to do after I start actually writing.

I love all ya so much and wish you happy holidays and a happy new year! *confetti exploders*

You okay dude? You’re not exactly making the most sense rn

 

[Leek]

You literally didn't understand anything I said.

If people aren’t understanding your point, try to explain it better? Because I haven’t seen you try and elaborate at all or help people understand what you’re trying to say.
Was devils.advocate’s summary accurate? Because honestly I don’t have a clue.

 

[Schwab]

Hey! You don't know! I have been added to Convos and Private DM where I just open to NSFW that I had to report!


Anyway...

I think the comparison of RR compare to SH is quite interesting



So I went to see if that is true. While I am not entirely sure how well they put their lack of moderation into practice since I don't frequent that site myself, I did see a few interesting things.

in March 2019 the site tried to create some reprieve for authors in the form of author moderation of their own comments

https://www.royalroad.com/blog/21/stopping-the-madness

tho the blog post did make it clear, that even tho, from the point of the authors the can block anyone from commenting, the ongoing problem of readers spamming authors with messages of harassment will not stop.

And in the comments underneath the blog post, the admin did state that review and review trolling is not at that point something that will be interfered with, in consideration for the abuse of authors should them have the power over their own reviews

The authors, however, feared that should they block harassers they will take their harassment to the reviews and bomb that section as a way of attacking the author.

The admin did mention that a function is in the future to let the author hid review from their own experience of the site, however still visible to the community at large


Next update after that
an Author and reader reputation system was created.

Next update of note 30 September 2020

https://www.royalroad.com/blog/32/patch-notes-30-september-2020

New(?) review rules have in added
New(?) code of conduct and way of interacting have been added



While their success is hard for me to gauge, I feel that they are trying. But it appears they are a great advocate in that reader's impression must be known.... the reviewing system is important.

Which as a concept... I don't think its wrong to hold that as a foundation of a community, it is just one of the many possible ways of building a community... I personally don't think that is a good thing to focus on.... but my reason and theories are my own.

And what I am about to say is purely opinion and by no means the truth... But the sense I get... is the RR is not built for authors. it built for readers... if that makes sense... and SH I feel is a place build more with the author in mind and reader needs are placed in the second.

If I am just making a baseless conjecture, I'd say there are more authors than readers on SH and vice versa on RR.

But I could easily be wrong, but that is how I feel about the power dynamics in the two sites.


Anyway, that was an interesting thing to dive into...

I think another thing people choose to ignore about RR's situation is that there's not a lot of moderators/admins to help stop the rampant harassment claims. Currently, Wing is the only moderator working on the social side of things. One person can't fix the whole site.