The inherent toxicity in the online space

[Trashlyn]

I'm not trying to get a rise out of you or mess with you.

I'm just trying to explain that people are entitled to call RR an awful place based on their experiences, especially if they come from a group that is routinely targeted for abuse and harassment and that their experiences or opinions are not false because you are not a member of those targeted demographics and have had an amazing time there. Nor does choosing to use another site where they have a better experience make them "too sheltered".

But that's just not true. Then why would they believe such a thing?

I know the world should be kinder, but some people are just too sheltered.

We are not trying to be rude or mean to you, you made a thread where you stated that other people's opinions on a thing are false and then called people "too sheltered", disagreeing with you without calling you names or flaming is not being rude or mean.

 

[Scribbler]

I'm not trying to get a rise out of you or mess with you.

I'm just trying to explain that people are entitled to call RR an awful place based on their experiences, especially if they come from a group that is routinely targeted for abuse and harassment and that their experiences or opinions are not false because you are not a member of those targeted demographics and have had an amazing time there. Nor does choosing to use another site where they have a better experience make them "too sheltered".






We are not trying to be rude or mean to you, you made a thread where you stated that other people's opinions on a thing are false and then called people "too sheltered", disagreeing with you without calling you names or flaming is not being rude or mean.

I never said they were false.

You literally assumed the worst of me in every possible way.

You words were not rude or mean, your ideology, your entire way of thinking was.

I don't know what happened to you in your life to get the if they're not with me then they're against me mindset. But I don't care and I don't like you as a person.

 

[QuietValerie]

And people say those of us who left Royal Road have a thin skin xD. This guy is next level pathetic.

 

[BismuthBorealis]

Do you not hear how repulsive that sounds? Just reeks. I don't know the word. Instigating? I don't want to argue with you. I don't see the point in it. I'm sorry. What do I get from proving I'm right? Do I get money? Do I get time? I could debate all day but nothing would get done.

You're literally arguing with me, right here.
Don't want to argue with me, my arse.

@Trashlyn @BismuthBorealis @Skadia
I know none of you guys are that stupid and were just trying to get a reaction out of me. But oh my god, do you not see how rude you are?

are you really so narcissistic you think people disagree with you purely to bully?
You yourself have been saying

Yo, I never said anything about how people should act. I posted my view on how others view things. I even said, "how I view it" meaning it was not the end all or be all of views.

that it's just how you view it/your opinion.
You do realise that we, in return, are stating our own opinions and experiences, in a thread you opened to the public forum for discussion, and because our views and experiences and research contradict yours, you start saying shit like

You literally understood nothing I said and assumed soooo much. That's privilege right there. Bending things so they work for you. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

And just generally insulting everyone.

This thread is the pinnacle of irony, to me, a discussion on toxicity turned toxic by the one who started it, discussion denied when it doesn't go the way of the one who asked for discussion, among other things

 

[Skadia]

You literally understood nothing I said and assumed soooo much. That's privilege right there. Bending things so they work for you. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that?

That's all fine and dandy, but I still fail to see what assumptions I made and where I bent the truth? Please explain that, and then explain what you meant that I misunderstood, I'd love to know what I didn't understand correctly in your narrative.

Like I'm not just a thing or a toy to play with. I'm a person.

Now, who's making assumptions about others?

 

[QuietValerie]

OP is just so weird. Acts like a machine learning AI that was fed my chemical romance lyrics lmao

 

[Scribbler]

I'm not trying to get a rise out of you or mess with you.

I'm just trying to explain that people are entitled to call RR an awful place based on their experiences, especially if they come from a group that is routinely targeted for abuse and harassment and that their experiences or opinions are not false because you are not a member of those targeted demographics and have had an amazing time there. Nor does choosing to use another site where they have a better experience make them "too sheltered".






We are not trying to be rude or mean to you, you made a thread where you stated that other people's opinions on a thing are false and then called people "too sheltered", disagreeing with you without calling you names or flaming is not being rude or mean.

I'm sorry, that was too mean. I do like you as a person. I love your use of or. Like, I can really see you're a writer with how varied and specific you want your vocabulary to be.

And people say those of us who left Royal Road have a thin skin xD. This guy is next level pathetic.

I think you're super cute.

OP is just so weird. Acts like a machine learning AI that was fed my chemical romance lyrics lmao

I'm sorry, I never listened to my chemical romance. I was never a music person. I just listened to whatever was popular.

You're literally arguing with me, right here.
Don't want to argue with me, my arse.

are you really so narcissistic you think people disagree with you purely to bully?
You yourself have been saying

that it's just how you view it/your opinion.
You do realise that we, in return, are stating our own opinions and experiences, in a thread you opened to the public forum for discussion, and because our views and experiences and research contradict yours, you start saying shit like

And just generally insulting everyone.

This thread is the pinnacle of irony, to me, a discussion on toxicity turned toxic by the one who started it, discussion denied when it doesn't go the way of the one who asked for discussion, among other things

You're also super pretty.

That's all fine and dandy, but I still fail to see what assumptions I made and where I bent the truth? Please explain that, and then explain what you meant that I misunderstood, I'd love to know what I didn't understand correctly in your narrative.

Now, who's making assumptions about others?

You're super cute too.

I'm sorry about being so mean. *dogeza*

I am prob gonna leave the site just cuz there's nothing for me to do after I start actually writing.

I love all ya so much and wish you happy holidays and a happy new year! *confetti exploders*

 

[QuietValerie]

You're so strange!!! Holy crap this is hilarious. It's like self immolation and a train wreck had a baby

 

[Scribbler]

@BismuthBorealis @Skadia @QuietValerie @Trashlyn

Thank you for being so kind to someone as unworthy as me. Thank you so very very much. But I'm really okay. I am my own light.

 

[BismuthBorealis]

Thank you for being so kind to someone as unworthy as me. Thank you so very very much. But I'm really okay. I am my own light.

I know it may be difficult in these near-worldwide trying times, but may I suggest trying to get a therapist?
You need not be your own light, when there are experts to help.

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Sorry to interrupt... I have not overly vested interest in this thread or any of the sides. If any I am just a bit interested....

I was reminded of this little factoid from a Q and A youtube video from the U tuber Adam Ragusea titled: Ask Adam #7: Why aren't there more female food YouTubers.

I just sat thru 45 god damn minutes of Ask adam #7.... now inserted with an awareness that something call curoloy exists... Tho I am not 100% sure which "factoid" from that video is relevant to this thread's opening post.

From what I gathered, Adam Ragusea only suggested the reason there are fewer female food Youtubers is in two points

Point One:
While "Male" and "Female" youtubers both get abuses of varying frequency, "Female" abuses are much worst.
His wife chimed in and explained that while males abuse tends to be insults and putdowns, female abuses tend to be sexualized and scary.

(I imagine/assume she called it scary because of PEW and WMC research result suggest that Men are more likely to experience abuse as name-calling, women experience higher rates of sustained abuse involving sexual harassment, stalking and intimate partner violence, on top of name-calling.)

(PS depressing Stats... LGBTQ+ individuals experience 3 times the frequency of abuse categorised as "serious" compare to non-LGBTQ+ groups...)

Point Two:
Is that the marginalisation or the prevention of more Female creators is to do with that audience themselves. The Youtube algorithms is a feedback loop that amplifies what the audience wants and gives more promotion to that thing.

(In other words, The reason female food YouTubers struggle to gain prominence, is because female creators have not reached the critical mass the would drive the youtube search algorithm to pay attention to them. The audience searches and would click on male creators more. this in itself creator more promotion of male creators.)


It is these two factors that it is reasonable to think that both youtube and internet as a whole is not too welcoming to female ( or other marginalised demographic) creators

I can vaguely see how it relates to this part.

I've heard tell of people being chased or bullied away from royal road, and many people from scribblehub seem to think it's an awful place full of awful people.

And of course if you're female, then you'll be given worse treatment from toxic people.

I am not sure how that led to the rest...

Is the world wrong for being wrong, or is the person wrong for expecting anything else?

Can you use better words of that sentence?

OR put your point in a clearer manner,

I don't know if this is your point but only from my limited understanding whats going on and trying to break down the logic of the thought process... with my inherent biases... I gathered

I've heard tell of people being chased or bullied away from royal road, and many people from scribblehub seem to think it's an awful place full of awful people. But that's just not true. Then why would they believe such a thing? Because that's the only part they saw of it. And of course if you're female, then you'll be given worse treatment from toxic people.

1. People don't like RR, because they think it's full of awful people.
2. But that is not true
3. It is true only in part of the community but not the entirety
4. Females will be given worse treatment compare to others

Conclusion RR is not JUST full of bad people, it is fine for the majority but will harass marginalised groups
(@Scribbler correct? or am I misunderstanding?)

secondary point

But it's like this, or at least, this is how I view it, people kill each other in real life for no good reason. Random acts of violence are a real thing. You have to accept the inherent wrongness, or madness that the world is capable of. Saying the world is wrong for being wrong, for being what it is, well that's just silly.
Is the world wrong for being wrong, or is the person wrong for expecting anything else?
I know the world should be kinder, but some people are just too sheltered.

1. The world is bad.... with random acts of badness
2. Accept badness as the norm, and to question the norm is "silly"
3. A person should not challenge the norm
4. You wish the world was kinder, but it's not
5. People that challenge the norm of badness are people that are is too sheltered (have not learned to harden)

Compound conclusion
RR is a place good for some groups of people if you are in a group prone to harassment or discrimination you should not go there unless you are able to accept serious harassment as an ongoing norm of your experience.

@Scribbler
Is that point you are trying to make?

Or am I 100% off the mark?

What is the point? Can you re-write the OP so dummies like me can understand?

 

[Devils.Advocate]

Oh My Gwad... I just realised that because of my user name... me taking part in any discussion looks really bad....

 

[EternalSunset0]

Oh My Gwad... I just realised that because of my user name... me taking part in any discussion looks really bad....

Username checks out.

I loved your response though. You made things a lot easier to understand for people tbh. Although I am not sure if someone would take offense to that or what. Personally, I don't see anything wrong.

 

[minacia]

This thread gives me so much anxiety

I think... to take Scribbler’s perspective, it’s really frightening to have so many people jump on you at once and/or laugh at you.

Even if I think the majority of everyone is here is right, I hope we can take into the account the feelings of the minority — because majority/minority dynamics can certainly change from space to space.

That said, I totally agree with Devils.Advocate in that I think Scribbler was horribly misunderstood. Like... I don’t think Scribbler writes that much on RR or is even trying to frame this as a SH (bad) vs. RR (good) dichotomy. Rather... to me I sort of interpreted this as a shower thought or random soliloquy-like musing of his that he wrote down without considering what kind of reaction it might get.

Um... I know him from NUF, and he does tend to get very abrasive (almost destructive), but he’s really not a bad person.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I think this issue needs to be put to rest. We all made our points and argued about our views. And I guess, we're going overboard in getting our points across.

 

[EternalSunset0]

This thread gives me so much anxiety

I think... to take Scribbler’s perspective, it’s really frightening to have so many people jump on you at once and/or laugh at you.

Even if I think the majority of everyone is here is right, I hope we can take into the account the feelings of the minority — because majority/minority dynamics can certainly change from space to space.

That said, I totally agree with Devils.Advocate in that I think Scribbler was horribly misunderstood. Like... I don’t think Scribbler writes that much on RR or is even trying to frame this as a SH (bad) vs. RR (good) dichotomy. Rather... to me I sort of interpreted this as a shower thought or random soliloquy-like musing of his that he wrote down without considering what kind of reaction it might get.

Um... I know him from NUF, and he does tend to get very abrasive (almost destructive), but he’s really not a bad person.

I think part of what really rubbed the people the wrong way is his latter statement. I probably cannot speak for everyone, but the second part (as what Advocate explained) pretty much doomed the discussion possibilities from the get-go.

He could have valid points and all, but in my opinion, the moment he threw the "just suck it up" card, it opened the way for these people to gang up on him.

It also did not help that instead of clearing things up, he went with the "let's just talk in private" thing which ended up being very unproductive, as far as the leaked screenshot is concerned, and all the more made him seem like he's trying to pull a guilt-trip card to abruptly end the convo instead of publicly clearing up possible misunderstandings himself. Which, in turn, made the "you're too sheltered, just deal with it" side of things look even more ironic.

Again, I'm not faulting anyone, but that's what I saw transpire as an observer.

 

[minacia]

I think part of what really rubbed the people the wrong way is his latter statement. I probably cannot speak for everyone, but the second part (as what Advocate explained) pretty much doomed the discussion possibilities from the get-go.

He could have valids points and all, but in my opinion, the moment he threw the "just suck it up" card, it opened the way for these people to gang up on him.

It also did not help that instead of clearing things up, he went with the "let's just talk in private" thing which ended up being very unproductive, as far as the leaked screenshot is concerned, and all the more made him seem like he's trying to pull a guilt-trip card to abruptly end the convo instead of publicly clearing up possible misunderstandings himself. Which, in turn, made the "you're too sheltered, just deal with it" side of things look even more ironic.

Again, I'm not faulting anyone, but that's what I saw transpire as an observer.

Yeah, I think you’re certainly right about the way it appeared.

That said, I don’t think Scribbler always says what he means, and I don’t think it always works well to analyze or break-down his arguments point by point.

Um, if I recall a conversation I had with him on NUF about him “despising weak people” (he has a tendency to use strong language), I don’t necessarily think that it’s addressed to an audience or anyone who might have been offended seeing it in passing. Rather, sometimes I think he’s processing his own feelings and writing it for himself...

Although he can definitely get very defensive, which can cause things to escalate a lot.

 

[Trashlyn]

Yah basically what Devil and Sunset said. It was hard to find any cohesive premise in the OP that could be read as charitable. It was a stream of thought that wasn't really internally consistent. Most charitable interpretation was someone thinking aloud but only speaking half of their tangential leaps which wasn't something a reader would initially jump to seeing as it was posted in a public forum with a title that was sure to attract a lot of heated opinions.

The failure to further clarify or actually argue the point just further fueled the thread as for many it likely felt like a type of online far right discourse tactic where you state something inflammatory that is vague on context or evidence and then avoid clarifying or arguing the point by changing subject or claiming their arguments are wrong or misinterpreting your point but not stating how. This likely lead to people assuming uncharitable intent or arguing in bad faith.

I think the key issue here was probably that these were shower thoughts that shouldn't have been posted or at least not without a lot more context and internally cohesive structure. It was almost doomed to go wrong as Sunset said.

 

[Trashlyn]

Basically what you say and how you say it should always keep in mind where you are saying it and to who you are saying it. What sort of place are you saying it in? Is it a closed invite only community, open forum, dms with friends? Are you talking friends, a tight knit community or publicly where anyone could come across it?

Sometimes also the why are you are saying it is something to consider especially in relation to the where and who. Are you just speaking to yourself? Are you trying to raise awareness of an issue? Are you trying to foster healthy debate? Do you just want to have casual conversation? etc Some ideas should only be aired around friends you trust to understand your intent and your character because they may be potentially inflammatory.

 

[Skadia]

Words can have a lot of impact on some people. You can't just barge in and say that you "despise weak people" and that "people are just too sheltered" without expecting people to disagree with that.

This is the kind of garbage ideology that can end up hurting a lot of people. You may not think one message on a forum can have that much impact, but this thread has been viewed more than 2000 times as of right now. Even if some people have read it several times, that's still a shit load of people. And that stuff happens in lots of places, it accumulates for the targeted people who have to suffer through these ideas everywhere they go.

Personally, calling people sheltered and weak and then right after playing the victim card on their profile and in this thread is really what rubbed me the wrong way about all this. Can't be more ironic than that. I would have left it at my first message if it hadn't been for the whole subsequent guilt trip and everything else.

Rather, sometimes I think he’s processing his own feelings and writing it for himself

When you're processing your feelings you usually are open to counterarguments, you do not fly the handle the moment someone disagrees with you. Scribbler fucked up here. You're responsible for the shit you write on the internet, especially if you start harassing people with private messages and accusations the moment someone disagrees with you. Excusing it as "processing" is just as harmful as the message in itself.

Even if I think the majority of everyone is here is right, I hope we can take into the account the feelings of the minority — because majority/minority dynamics can certainly change from space to space.

I really don't like this mindset at all. You do not have to respect harmful opinions just because they are in minority. I'll agree on the fact that people, including myself, reacted strongly to this thread, but I also think it was justified, considering what was being said.

In conclusion, if you're processing harmful thoughts about despising "weak people" for leaving Royal Road's toxic environment in favor of somewhere more accomodating, do it in private. NOT on the fucking public forum where all these people can be found. Think about what you say before you say it.