the problem with originality

[grandiddykane]

what makes something cliche? no, seriously. can someone please, in their own words, define that for me? i'm having a little trouble narrowing down its meaning myself. here's where i'm having trouble: if i'm not mistaken, isn't the air we breathe cliche? or the water we drink, as well? i'm dead serious. can't this be applied to just about anything? but that doesn't mean all things unoriginal have to be bad, now does it? for example, those things i just mentioned, air and water, are essential to our continued existence. video games and their mechanics are overused, are they not? but you still play and enjoy them, nonetheless, don't you?

i don't understand why something must be completely original in order for it to get the pass. how old are you guys, anyway? i ask because sadly, there comes a point in time where you've seen just about everything this world has to offer, and from that point forward, you're not going to be using the word original, or "a breath of fresh air," as often as you did to describe whatever piece of media it is you're consuming now compared to when you were younger.

but this isn't a bad thing. for example, when you open up a pack of pokemon cards, you're prone to drawing a couple of repeats, correct? but what if, out of all those repeats, one of those cards is a rare? doesn't that make it all worth it?

another example. what if you're favorite book met its conclusion years ago and you haven't found anything like it since. what would you do if one day you finally came across something just like it? would you a. call it an unoriginal, ripoff, or b. rejoice in the fact that you practically get the chance to read your favorite book again?

this is why i decided to read eragon, despite people saying it was a ripoff of lord of the rings. i'm going to be honest with you, i didn't like (like at all) the lord of the rings movies, but i will give it a second change and check out the books because usually they add important details that were missing from the movies that make things overall more enjoyable or understandable. i played the games though (shadow of mordor, shadow of war) and those were pretty kick ass.

 

[SailusGebel]

what makes something cliche? no, seriously. can someone please, in their own words, define that for me? i'm having a little trouble narrowing down its meaning myself. here's where i'm having trouble: if i'm not mistaken, isn't the air we breathe cliche? or the water we drink, as well? i'm dead serious. can't this be applied to just about anything? but that doesn't mean all things unoriginal have to be bad, now does it? for example, those things i just mentioned, air and water, are essential to our continued existence. video games and their mechanics are overused, are they not? but you still play and enjoy them, nonetheless, don't you?

Yeah, a cliche isn't good or bad; cliche is cliche. Well done understanding it.

 

[Jayrayme6]

Something original. Lol, most people do not like original stories. They'd rather read the same old isekai/litrpg/smut shit with a spin rather than completly original material. Going against the grain doesn't earn you views. Strive away from originality or your story won't be read.

 

[Zirrboy]

Something original. Lol, most people do not like original stories. They'd rather read the same old isekai/litrpg/smut shit with a spin rather than completly original material. Going against the grain doesn't earn you views. Strive away from originality or your story won't be read.

Absolutely true!

And I'm shamelessly exploiting it.

 

[Horizon42]

You never want to delve into complete originality, rather you should put your own original or unique twist on an already established concept. You never know if you've done a good job unless you have something to compare it to. Also people like different, not alien.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Not sure what statistics you're checking chief, but most trendy stuff are the exact opposite of original. Nothing is truly original anyways, anything that is remotely close will be absolutely eldritch in nature.

What most people are looking for is not originality, they're looking for something different. They're looking for a new way to journey through an old premise that they like.

 

[grandiddykane]

Something original. Lol, most people do not like original stories. They'd rather read the same old isekai/litrpg/smut shit with a spin rather than completly original material. Going against the grain doesn't earn you views. Strive away from originality or your story won't be read.

you and i are talking about two different people. i'm talking about people who actually care about originality in their stories. and no, i'm not even talking about a completely fresh take, just the same ole, same ole with a twist, as you said. but you have to admit that even with that, not everyone fancies the idea of blatant regurgitation. have you not seen the reviews of some (majority) isekai/litrpg/smut shit where people find issue with it not being original enough? if not, then i applaud you for your ability to find only everything of the highest caliber of quality.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Cliche... is something stupid thing people like to label when they see something repeatedly. There is nothing wrong with cliches. People just go like omg that is so cliche of you to do. Or, as expected, MC fucked another person over! All that nonsense. These are tropes we usually see in stories rather than cliches. I don't know why people label everything as cliche/unoriginal.

For example, I write romance, so obviously people are bound to get into arguments/fall in love and want to protect one another. This can be seen as a cliche of the romance genre. But guess what... This actually happens in real life! As you said, water, air, food are all essential to us. Same with these factors. There isn't a relationship in the world where they aren't any arguments/misunderstandings.

If this is missing from a relationship, let me tell you, one party doesn't give a fuck about the other one. But hey, people see this as a cliche! Everyone can understand one another, right? They can just talk it out! Doesn't always work that way. Or it isn't always straightforward.

i don't understand why something must be completely original in order for it to get the pass. how old are you guys, anyway? i ask because sadly, there comes a point in time where you've seen just about everything this world has to offer, and from that point forward, you're not going to be using the word original, or "a breath of fresh air," as often as you did to describe whatever piece of media it is you're consuming now compared to when you were younger.

Hm... here is a thing from me. What is original? Is it something that people redo? The same story with a new skin? Or is it something that has similarities yet has a unique spin on the genre?

Originality is in the beholder's eye. For me, anything with a unique spin to the story is original. Genres are known things. Supernatural stories will always have the elements that make them so. Magic and ghost... Yet the way the story is told about them could be 100% original.

So, I doubt everything out there has been seen. There are many takes a story can put into existence. But no, things don't have to be original to be good. They just need to have what people look for sadly.



Makes me so sad when people say to stay away from originality. Where has the creativity gone? Does everything have to be the same? Why not put a unique spin on things? That itself can be original.

 

[SailusGebel]

Cliche... is something stupid thing people like to label when they see something repeatedly. There is nothing wrong with cliches. People just go like omg that is so cliche of you to do. Or, as expected, MC fucked another person over! All that nonsense. These are tropes we usually see in stories rather than cliches. I don't know why people label everything as cliche/unoriginal.

For example, I write romance, so obviously people are bound to get into arguments/fall in love and want to protect one another. This can be seen as a cliche of the romance genre. But guess what... This actually happens in real life! As you said, water, air, food are all essential to us. Same with these factors. There isn't a relationship in the world where they aren't any arguments/misunderstandings.

If this is missing from a relationship, let me tell you, one party doesn't give a fuck about the other one. But hey, people see this as a cliche! Everyone can understand one another, right? They can just talk it out! Doesn't always work that way. Or it isn't always straightforward.

A cliché (UK: /ˈkliːʃeɪ/ or US: /kliˈʃeɪ/) is an element of an artistic work, saying, or idea that has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.[1] In phraseology, the term has taken on a more technical meaning, referring to an expression imposed by conventionalized linguistic usage.[2]

The term is often used in modern culture for an action or idea that is expected or predictable, based on a prior event. Typically pejorative, "clichés" may or may not be true.[3] Some are stereotypes, but some are simply truisms and facts.[4] Clichés often are employed for comic effect, typically in fiction.

 

[killwrites]

Hey, this doesn't just apply to stories. Most people say that the iPhone is the first modern smartphone, but the iPhone itself isn't an original idea...it's just how brilliantly Steven Jobs marketed it to the world. I doubt any story is truly original anyways, it's all about perception and how well you play with existing ideas to invent "new" ones.

 

[Lloyd]

Something original. Lol, most people do not like original stories. They'd rather read the same old isekai/litrpg/smut shit with a spin rather than completly original material. Going against the grain doesn't earn you views. Strive away from originality or your story won't be read.

lol deal with it
Originality does actually gain views, you just have to be competent. Plus there are infinite other factors to having a good story. Smearing shit all over the page is original too, but no one's gonna read that.

 

[SailusGebel]

Smearing shit all over the page is original too, but no one's gonna read that.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

A cliché (UK: /ˈkliːʃeɪ/ or US: /kliˈʃeɪ/) is an element of an artistic work, saying, or idea that has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect, even to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.[1] In phraseology, the term has taken on a more technical meaning, referring to an expression imposed by conventionalized linguistic usage.[2]

The term is often used in modern culture for an action or idea that is expected or predictable, based on a prior event. Typically pejorative, "clichés" may or may not be true.[3] Some are stereotypes, but some are simply truisms and facts.[4] Clichés often are employed for comic effect, typically in fiction.

Heheh... Yep, I was spot on. Forgot the irritation part. People get irritated easier now days though! And by everything! Does that mean everything is a cliche!?! Oh noes... :c I feel like am about to go down a wormhole.

 

[Agentt]

Ah, well, this is why i quite don't like asking such stuff on forums, people have so many views, if you are very new, it will just leave you more confused and depressed, i would just suggest creating a private chat with someone whose writing style is compatible with you

 

[SailusGebel]

Ah, well, this is why i quite don't like asking such stuff on forums, people have so many views, if you are very new, it will just leave you more confused and depressed, i would just suggest creating a private chat with someone whose writing style is compatible with you

What's so depressing about it?

 

[grandiddykane]

So, I doubt everything out there has been seen. There are many takes a story can put into existence. But no, things don't have to be original to be good. They just need to have what people look for sadly.

i respectfully doubt your doubt for this reason. what does it take to become mainstream? the people's approval, right? and what do the people approve of? as the second and fourth reply to this thread stated, not a lot of people care for originality, let alone in its complete form. so what does that leave us with? garbage gaining the most exposure when the real good stuff is hidden under the surface. and let me tell you, no one, and i mean no one (not even you) go out of your way to dig deep for the hidden gems. it's whatever's most popular that people talk about, not the hidden gems. this is why i belive that there's a lot of originality out there, and that it has all been done before, but we haven't seen it simply because they didn't gain enough traction.

 

[DubstheDuke]

I think that when it comes to cliche, people define cliche typically as predictable. And a story being predictable isn't a bad thing in of itself. It's when it's so predictable that you've essentially read the same story before that it really becomes an issue.

Stories should be all about combining various ideas in a way that is unique in it's own way. If a story takes ideas which are cliche and predictable and applies them in ways that are unique and creative, or combines ideas that haven't been combined before - then even if it has those cliche ideas, the story itself isn't cliche.

Why are there so many isekai series? "X in another world." Replace the X with anything. Reincarnated as a "Insert particular type of monster here", for example. Or "Insert job title here" reincarnated in another world.

When we see someone who is reincarnated as a monster or as a particular race in an isekai, we typically might think it's overdone and boring. However if the story is able to really dive deep into the specifics of it's premise, then it becomes unique in of itself. There are a whole bunch of different things that one might be reincarnated as, and so long as the story is intriguing then at least some people will read it. We've probably seen stories where characters were reincarnated as bugs, vampires, dragons, slimes, goblins, orcs, etc. We've seen stories where characters were reincarnated as heroes of course, but I've also seen some where they were reincarnated not as heroes but as normal people with specific roles or jobs. And once again, this is dependant on the author's abilitiy to take such a role and make it interesting. Also, there is the concept of what the character's job was in their previous life, which might give the story a unique twist.

But lets take the average isekai series. Average person reincarnated in a normal fantasy world as a hero with the responsibility to "Stop the evil beings from taking over the world by defeating the demon lord" or something like that.

Well even with these typical and cliche types of stories, worldbuilding can make them interesting. Use of unique characters and methods of doing things can make a story stand out from the others with the same premise. I mean, as writers we should be building entire societies and histories for our stories. So how could we make it exactly the same as everyone elses? It's an impossibility if we actually think about it enough. Sure we might take influence from others, but it should never be exactly the same.

Point here: If a story isn't unique in any way, and if you can literally predict the story from it's beginning, then it's a bad thing. I read a manga once where some guy commented on how cliche it was and gave an entire prediction on how the story would go from chapter 1.

The story was axed on chapter 19 and cut short, therefore they sorts speedran through to the end and fast forwarded in time, recapping all the things that "Would have happened" if the story was allowed to take it's full course. Needless to say, the guy who predicted this was almost correct in everything he predicted. That's when being cliche is a problem.

 

[Layenlml]

what makes something cliche? no, seriously. can someone please, in their own words, define that for me? i'm having a little trouble narrowing down its meaning myself. here's where i'm having trouble: if i'm not mistaken, isn't the air we breathe cliche? or the water we drink, as well? i'm dead serious. can't this be applied to just about anything? but that doesn't mean all things unoriginal have to be bad, now does it? for example, those things i just mentioned, air and water, are essential to our continued existence. video games and their mechanics are overused, are they not? but you still play and enjoy them, nonetheless, don't you?

i don't understand why something must be completely original in order for it to get the pass. how old are you guys, anyway? i ask because sadly, there comes a point in time where you've seen just about everything this world has to offer, and from that point forward, you're not going to be using the word original, or "a breath of fresh air," as often as you did to describe whatever piece of media it is you're consuming now compared to when you were younger.

but this isn't a bad thing. for example, when you open up a pack of pokemon cards, you're prone to drawing a couple of repeats, correct? but what if, out of all those repeats, one of those cards is a rare? doesn't that make it all worth it?

another example. what if you're favorite book met its conclusion years ago and you haven't found anything like it since. what would you do if one day you finally came across something just like it? would you a. call it an unoriginal, ripoff, or b. rejoice in the fact that you practically get the chance to read your favorite book again?

this is why i decided to read eragon, despite people saying it was a ripoff of lord of the rings. i'm going to be honest with you, i didn't like (like at all) the lord of the rings movies, but i will give it a second change and check out the books because usually they add important details that were missing from the movies that make things overall more enjoyable or understandable. i played the games though (shadow of mordor, shadow of war) and those were pretty kick ass.

I guess everthing narrows down on how you make use of said cliche.

But cliche is pretty much what you already or expect from a event.

Examplo. Fight bandits, heard about girl, go to save girl, girl is princess/important, get great reward, she falls in love with mc.

A twist? You go save her, you find every bandit dead and the girl free, she confuses you with a bandot, you fight, both escape but hve a grudge with eachother.

Depends on how you use it, saw a rip off the gamer and the author didnt even bother to change the first dungeon, the first monster, boss, drop just felt lazy all there was to do is chage ogre to like wolf or something and thats it.

There is also levels of cliche and the cliches you expect and can tolerate.

I hate vampire MC because its always the same mental/character development with not wanting to drink blood, thirst then doing it and ta da! Your mc is no longer human and acts like a superior person.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

i respectfully doubt your doubt for this reason. what does it take to become mainstream? the people's approval, right? and what do the people approve of? as the second and fourth reply to this thread stated, not a lot of people care for originality, let alone in its complete form. so what does that leave us with? garbage gaining the most exposure when the real good stuff is hidden under the surface. and let me tell you, no one, and i mean no one (not even you) go out of your way to dig deep for the hidden gems. it's whatever's most popular that people talk about, not the hidden gems. this is why i belive that there's a lot of originality out there, and that it has all been done before, but we haven't seen it simply because they didn't gain enough traction.

I mean, you're right. I do not know if everything out there has been written. Like... has there been a story about worm people? Squid people? What about a galaxy of sciFi starring dogs! Hm... I do not know. I guess I can assume there has been a story like that. But you are right. Which is why I say I doubt.

That's why I see any type of spin as the original. As long as the story isn't the same substance or reskin. And sadly, you are right. We are left with subpar entries to see thanks to the rising trends. And the rest get buried under the rubble. I wish things were different. :c

 

[BenJepheneT]

One thing I've learned about originality is that when you start worrying about clichés and trends, you end up doing something worse than being unoriginal; you make a bad story.

Clichés are such because they WORK. As OP said, breathing air is cliché, because that's how we humans stayed alive. Now, if you manage to find a way for us to live with photosynthesis, then THAT'LL be original. Keyword: for us to live.

People often forget it isn't ideas that make the quality, but the execution. There are simply some premises or situations that can't be twisted beyond its expected route. You can switch up the formula, or even subvert it, but the truth of the matter stays the same; a cohesive and comprehensible story has to come out the other way.

What the industry is looking for isn't originality but competence. A well-written by-the-numbers fantasy book will always work better than a hastily slapped together story with an interesting premise that really, serves as no more than a glorified advertisement for said premise. Stop worrying about it. Originality is nothing but decoration to the cake that is the story itself. Strengthen your base; it is the foundation that holds everything else up.