Toilet thoughts: Soft masculine character

[ConcubusBunny]

While coasting through web novels like a phantom I realized that there are no soft masculine main character.
I've only seen the hardened suck the fun out of everything I must be the strongest. And I got to say it's pretty boring to read 100 MC's that are mostly the same.
Now I don't mean the soft emotional kind that cries every five seconds (I'm looking at you Deku)
I mean one that isn't talking all hard 24/7, but one that let their emotions show but not irritatingly so.
These are my thoughts, I want to hear yours.
Do you like hardened masculine manly man characters? Or do you prefer ones that are more care free and open with their feelings? (Note: I'm not referring to Luffy or Goku)
If you do put your reason for why you like such a character and what you think characteristics best suit them.

 

[SailusGebel]

It would be great to get examples of soft masculine characters. Baki shows his emotions. Is he a soft masculine character?

 

[Lloyd]

The brain is a biological organ. Men are biologically predisposed to being masculine and male writers will naturally write their MCs this way. If you want a feminine MC, read something written by a woman.

 

[Moonpearl]

It depends on what genre you're reading. Some genres are more likely than others to provide a fully-realised male character.

(Like BL)

 

[HokuouTenrou]

I guess yes? Though I can't really think of a concrete reason.
Reading the Broody McEdge-types ain't fun for me, but so is the Deku-types, or the Goku/Luffy-types.
Do JoJo's Josuke or Shaman King's Yoh count?

 

[ConcubusBunny]

It would be great to get examples of soft masculine characters. Baki shows his emotions. Is he a soft masculine character?

I was thinking on the lines of Gray, Kazuma, Dgray man, Saitama characters like that, aren't trying to be manly men, they're just dudes trying to live their lives.

The brain is a biological organ. Men are biologically predisposed to being masculine and male writers will naturally write their MCs this way. If you want a feminine MC, read something written by a woman.

I never said feminine there's a difference between someone showing emotions and someone who's more feminine in nature.
Not being hyper masculine doesn't suddenly translate to "this person is feminine cause they don't bottle up their emotions".

 

[SailusGebel]

I was thinking on the lines of Gray, Kazuma, Dgray man, Saitama characters like that, aren't trying to be manly men, they're just dudes trying to live their lives.

Guts wanted to live his life. Baki wants to beat his father. He said that if his father was the weakest, he would be okay with being only slightly stronger. Do they count? I don't know. You said, trying to be manly men. Can you perhaps provide an example of characters who try to be manly men? Cause I have trouble with remembering them. A lot of characters that I know are brutal, don't show emotions, etc. But it's not because they are trying to be manly men, but because they were forced to. How should I name them? I'm not picking a fight btw. I'm trying to understand this, understand what do you mean by a soft masculine character or a hard masculine character.

 

[ConcubusBunny]

Guts wanted to live his life. Baki wants to beat his father. He said that if his father was the weakest, he would be okay with being only slightly stronger. Do they count? I don't know. You said, trying to be manly men. Can you perhaps provide an example of characters who try to be manly men? Cause I have trouble with remembering them. A lot of characters that I know are brutal, don't show emotions, etc. But it's not because they are trying to be manly men, but because they were forced to. How should I name them? I'm not picking a fight btw. I'm trying to understand this, understand what do you mean by a soft masculine character or a hard masculine character.

In my opinion I'd say the manly the characters exactly trying to be the manliest but more they are more reserved cold always have to save everyone not necessarily grompy.
IN that notion I'd say Guts, Natsu, Goku, Kirito, the butler from overlord, Sin Jin Yuu from solo leveling.
The reason I put them even if they aren't shouting man,I don't see their behavior as anything but hyper masculine they don't show what they truly feel cause they're too busy being the hero which gets pretty saturated when your male mc only reacts to the plot and doesn't give their own insight on what they're going through.

 

[BlackKnightX]

View attachment 10084
While coasting through web novels like a phantom I realized that there are no soft masculine main character.
I've only seen the hardened suck the fun out of everything I must be the strongest. And I got to say it's pretty boring to read 100 MC's that are mostly the same.
Now I don't mean the soft emotional kind that cries every five seconds (I'm looking at you Deku)
I mean one that isn't talking all hard 24/7, but one that let their emotions show but not irritatingly so.
These are my thoughts, I want to hear yours.
Do you like hardened masculine manly man characters? Or do you prefer ones that are more care free and open with their feelings? (Note: I'm not referring to Luffy or Goku)
If you do put your reason for why you like such a character and what you think characteristics best suit them.

I like balanced character, meaning; the character who’s masculine, doesn’t afraid to take risk, and is calm and collected, but at the same time had a gentle and goofy side to him.

I used to like apathetic character because they somehow look cool, well at least cooler than most Japanese mc. But, watching someone with no emotion whatsoever can get old real fast, that’s why I prefer a balanced type more.

I think the best word to describe this is—“a badass and authentic character.”

 

[Cipiteca396]

This is just what your post reminded me of.

To be honest, most of the time, 'manly men' are a caricature. Even when it's written seriously. If you ignore moments of "I am a man, so I MUST act this way" then there's actually a few soft men.

Believe it or not, the best examples would be Aragorn and Boromir in LotR. The Hobbits get special attention, but only because they're portrayed more childishly than manly, while still being men.

A lot of those hated Japanese protagonists that are written as bland are kinda soft, though there's lots of exceptions and lots of "I'm a man, so of course I'm a pervert/strong/handsome" as a reminder that men aren't allowed to be soft.

I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Oh, I thought of the Anti-hero thing first, but apparently there's a Trope Talk specifically about Manly Men, and their alternatives.

Spoiler

 

[SailusGebel]

In my opinion I'd say the manly the characters exactly trying to be the manliest but more they are more reserved cold always have to save everyone not necessarily grompy.
IN that notion I'd say Guts, Natsu, Goku, Kirito, the butler from overlord, Sin Jin Yuu from solo leveling.
The reason I put them even if they aren't shouting man,I don't see their behavior as anything but hyper masculine they don't show what they truly feel cause they're too busy being the hero which gets pretty saturated when your male mc only reacts to the plot and doesn't give their own insight on what they're going through.

Calling Guts hyper-masculine, I don't know about it. Though he definitely looks hyper-masculine, his inner world is much more complex. I said it before, despite the fact that Guts suffers and endures all the time, he showed a different side of his character. As for Natsu, he is more of a child, in my opinion. I haven't read dragon ball or SAO, so I can't comment on this. I also dropped solo leveling and overlord, so I can't comment on this. The mc of solo leveling sure is edgy, but I don't know about being masculine. I can conclude that who is masculine, who is hyper-masculine, and who is not, depends on the perspective and personal opinion. So, to answer your first question, I don't like hypermasculine characters. But, my definition of a manly man, a hyper-masculine character, differs from yours.

 

[greyblob]

In my opinion I'd say the manly the characters exactly trying to be the manliest but more they are more reserved cold always have to save everyone not necessarily grompy.
IN that notion I'd say Guts, Natsu, Goku, Kirito, the butler from overlord, Sin Jin Yuu from solo leveling.
The reason I put them even if they aren't shouting man,I don't see their behavior as anything but hyper masculine they don't show what they truly feel cause they're too busy being the hero which gets pretty saturated when your male mc only reacts to the plot and doesn't give their own insight on what they're going through.

Man, this is one horrible take. What you're talking about is the hardboiled trope, but you're lumping every male character into it. These characters are strong. They don't break down crying every 15mintues because they don't have the luxury for it. They cannot lay down nor show weakness. I don't think you understand how people are. This is just a horrible generalization.

Spoiler

Spoiler

this thread will most likely get closed

 

[SakeVision]

Guts wanted to live his life.

yes, Guts wanted to live his life, swinging his sword for a year while living like a hermit, and then traveling the world looking for strong guys to fight, until fate gave him just that by making him run into the band of the hawk again and then griffith did his thing.

 

[SpiraSpira]

First start by starting with a list of all masculine traits, this may or may not be difficult to compose because there is some disagreement.

Then select traits for your character that are softer or neutral, and then emphasize those traits. Examples include: protector, stoicism (can be done either "soft" or "hard), provider, quiet competence (this might be more a neutral trait)

You could create a character around those traits that could be quite "soft" but still read very masculine, in fact this is how male leads are designed in most romance novels -- you select for the traits you want your ML to express and emphasize those and discard or de-emphasize ones that are opposing, for example you would likely not use "brash" as a trait despite it being considered, near universally, to be a masculine trait.

 

[LordJoyde]

A 'soft masculine' character does not exist nor can they for the simple reason that what is generally thought to be emotional health does not go hand in hand with masculinity at all.
Masculinity is a constant battlefield between paranoia, confidence and the decision to act.
Softness is to take that edge off, to stop being so hardheaded and simply be open while strong.
Aka, what you're looking for is a father or some 'fine-wine' male characters.

"Guts, Natsu, Goku, Kirito, the butler from overlord, Sin Jin Yuu" - these characters you've mentioned mostly share one common trait: Depression.
Hidden pains of many, many kinds. They aren't soft or masculine. If anything, they're all man-children in their own way. Kirito's self-hatred and constant sacrificial behavior, -I did not watch fairy tail, but I'm pretty sure Natsu is a comedic mc-, Goku has an underlying need for combat that he is willing to sacrifice everything to feed, even the wellbeing of his own family, the butler from OL has a constant inner battle between love and loyalty and idk Sin Jin Yuu.

You also mentioned people like Kazuma and the 'boys' from D Gray Man, all of whom are feminine and super in touch with their emotions. Again, there is very little actually masculine about them, from my point of view. Perversion and constant emotional turbulence, even if combined with enough capacity to simply 'live life as normal' is most definitely not masculinity at all, imo.

I suppose there can be different views on what masculinity exactly is, but it seems to me like you just want to find a male character that has suffered a lot but still keeps on trying to move on regardless?

 

[Lloyd]

I was thinking on the lines of Gray, Kazuma, Dgray man, Saitama characters like that, aren't trying to be manly men, they're just dudes trying to live their lives.

I never said feminine there's a difference between someone showing emotions and someone who's more feminine in nature.
Not being hyper masculine doesn't suddenly translate to "this person is feminine cause they don't bottle up their emotions".

Lol. Some people just don't get it. Being emotional is literally a feminine trait.

 

[ConcubusBunny]

A 'soft masculine' character does not exist nor can they for the simple reason that what is generally thought to be emotional health does not go hand in hand with masculinity at all.
Masculinity is a constant battlefield between paranoia, confidence and the decision to act.
Softness is to take that edge off, to stop being so hardheaded and simply be open while strong.
Aka, what you're looking for is a father or some 'fine-wine' male characters.

"Guts, Natsu, Goku, Kirito, the butler from overlord, Sin Jin Yuu" - these characters you've mentioned mostly share one common trait: Depression.
Hidden pains of many, many kinds. They aren't soft or masculine. If anything, they're all man-children in their own way. Kirito's self-hatred and constant sacrificial behavior, -I did not watch fairy tail, but I'm pretty sure Natsu is a comedic mc-, Goku has an underlying need for combat that he is willing to sacrifice everything to feed, even the wellbeing of his own family, the butler from OL has a constant inner battle between love and loyalty and idk Sin Jin Yuu.

You also mentioned people like Kazuma and the 'boys' from D Gray Man, all of whom are feminine and super in touch with their emotions. Again, there is very little actually masculine about them, from my point of view. Perversion and constant emotional turbulence, even if combined with enough capacity to simply 'live life as normal' is most definitely not masculinity at all, imo.

I suppose there can be different views on what masculinity exactly is, but it seems to me like you just want to find a male character that has suffered a lot but still keeps on trying to move on regardless?

That's the thing I never mentioned feminine male characters, I said ones that let their emotions.
Those traits aren't feminine traits you know, feeling.
I never mention that I want feminine male mc, I just said I'm tired of seeing male MC's who act like they don't feel anything but sadness or rage.
And no Kazuma isn't feminine, where did you get that idea come from?
Natsu and Kirito aren't going through depression cause Natsu is a bubbly idiot that only knows two emote smiling really wide and being angry 24/7.
Kirito's on the other isn't depression, it's PTSD. Wait no not even PTSD, at least not yet and it didn't even play into his character. He was a bland character that never smiled found some friends got them killed and didn't let that shape his character, their deaths just sorta happened, no one apart from us and him even knew they died and after that he went back to how he was before.
Like that's not how you write depression.
While Guts is a Goku clone that got in over is head and now wants out.

Lol. Some people just don't get it. Being emotional is literally a feminine trait.

Uh, no it's not how is showing emotions feminine trait, that's like saying any woman that's a more assertive and tough is instantly more masculine.

 

[SakeVision]

Lol. Some people just don't get it. Being emotional is literally a feminine trait.

it's a cultural thing.

In eastern culture, woman is the one who is supposed to be emotionless and reserved, while men are allowed to be rowdy and emotional as much as they want.

hence why rowdy and emotional women are seen as aggressive, tomboyish, and generally speaking onee-san types. perfect yamato dameshiko is quiet and never betrays her true feelings.

 

[SailusGebel]

That's the thing I never mentioned feminine male characters, I said ones that let their emotions.
Those traits aren't feminine traits you know, feeling.
I never mention that I want feminine male mc, I just said I'm tired of seeing male MC's who act like they don't feel anything but sadness or rage.
And no Kazuma isn't feminine, where did you get that idea come from?
Natsu and Kirito aren't going through depression cause Natsu is a bubbly idiot that only knows two emote smiling really wide and being angry 24/7.
Kirito's on the other isn't depression, it's PTSD. Wait no not even PTSD, at least not yet and it didn't even play into his character. He was a bland character that never smiled found some friends got them killed and didn't let that shape his character, their deaths just sorta happened, no one apart from us and him even knew they died and after that he went back to how he was before.
Like that's not how you write depression.
While Guts is a Goku clone that got in over is head and now wants out.

Guts felt happiness, so he felt something aside from sadness and rage. He as well felt lost and a tender feeling of love. I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Lloyd]

it's a cultural thing.

In eastern culture, woman is the one who is supposed to be emotionless and reserved, while men are allowed to be rowdy and emotional as much as they want.

hence why rowdy and emotional women are seen as aggressive, tomboyish, and generally speaking onee-san types. perfect yamato dameshiko is quiet and never betrays her true feelings.

It isn't a cultural thing. Its a cultural expectation on top of a biological reality. All women are emotional, its just some cultures don't allow them to express it.