What is more important, plot or character?

[SakeVision]

You're a crazy person. Some of those characters are iconic. In fact, people seem to dislike the show far more when one of those characters die and you are stuck with blander replacements.

Light was written to be hateable, and I hated him and rooted for his death.

Mello and Near are also universally disliked, Misa is disliked, and Ryuk is just a clown.

Everyone else is literally who, I don't remember anyone's name other than Matsuda and only because Light was screaming his name as he was shot to death which was 100% asmr satisfying.

The only iconic character in death note whom everyone loved was L, and he was the antagonist. But people didn't exactly watch the show for him either, mostly for the plot and mind games, which made death note famous enough that even now whenever anime or manga features mind games it's compared to death note.

Oh, and perhaps I forgot to mention the main reason for L's popularity was his sex appeal and insane amount of LxLight homoerotic subtext that pandered to fujoshi

 

[BlackKnightX]

I have no idea how to tell the difference, especially in CN xianxias and xuanhuan.

What the fuck is a good plot? Who the hell represents a good character?

You can look up the definition on Google. As for whether it’s good or not, that depends on how you see it. It’s very subjective.

Like I said, not everyone is a $100 bill. Some people will like your characters, others will not. I guess I did not explain myself well enough. He doesn't have to be likable, but everyone has to sympathize with them somewhere along the way. Understand them. And how do you do that? By adding depth, as you said. Then again, not everyone will like it. And that is fine. But most people won't care for a character they can't identify with to some level.

I disagree when you say it is to cater to readers. The likability of a character depends on how the reader identifies with them. Either good or bad. Not everyone will see the character the same way. This is where individuality comes into place. For example, some people like the MC because he is bold. While others might find him annoying as fuck for being so bold. We can't speak about majorities. Thus, I speak on individual levels.

To be honest, characters are too complex to place under good, likable, dislikable, and bad. Lol Humans are too complex to do that. All I am saying is that you need a sympathetic part or all you will do is isolate the readers. If the plot takes the character down a dark path, then so be it. I am not saying that is bad, just that will be the point where you might see hate/anger thrown at your character. Which, as I said, if a character is making you feel something, then that is a good thing. It's doing its job.

That’s the reason why most Japanese isekai‘s protagonists are an otaku at the beginning. It’s because the target reader is Otaku. And by creating a character who’s similar to them, they can sympathize or insert themself into the character.

Male reader won’t read story with female protagonist, because they can’t sympathize with her, unless she has the way of thinking like a man.

Female reader won’t like harem story much, because they usually insert themself into one of the harem members, not the mc. So when the mc gets with the other girls, it will feel weird and uncomfortable.

But all this is very subjective. Different people have different way to identify with someone. Some can’t even identity or empathize with anyone at all.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

That’s the reason why most Japanese isekai‘s protagonists are an otaku at the beginning. It’s because the target reader is Otaku. And by creating a character who’s similar to them, they can sympathize or insert themself into the character.

Male reader won’t read story with female protagonist, because they can’t sympathize with her, unless she has the way of thinking like a man.

Female reader won’t like harem story much, because they usually insert themself into one of the harem members, not the mc. So when the mc gets with the other girls, it will feels weird and uncomfortable.

But all this is very subjective. Different people have different way to identify with someone. Some can’t even identity or empathize with anyone at all.

You are correct. c: This is all subjective.

GB, is what usually makes male readers comfortable reading a female character? Why? Because she has the mind of a male. *Though I still believe if you put a man in a girl's body, I would love to see them react to their first period.*

 

[SailusGebel]

Now that I think about it, characters do sound more important to the majority(not for me). This is a sad thing to understand.

 

[BlackKnightX]

You are correct. c: This is all subjective.

GB, is what usually makes male readers comfortable reading a female character? Why? Because she has the mind of a male. *Though I still believe if you put a man in a girl's body, I would love to see them react to their first period.*

Yep, but it has to be GL, though. If the mc gender-bended and ends up with a man, I‘ll drop.

Now that I think about it, characters do sound more important to the majority(not for me). This is a sad thing to understand.

Like I said, you need both in a good story. You can’t separate the two. Characters are the reason why you care about the story, while plot are what keeps your interest.

Good character with shitty plot is boring. On the other hand, shitty character with good plot is mindless fun.

 

[binarysoap]

One way to see what you really care more for, plot or character, is what kind of tags do you look for when searching for porn?

Do you look for tags like succubus, elf, loli, MILF, yandere, etc? You probably care more for the characters

Do you look for tags like NTR, mind break, rape, etc? You probably care more for the plot.

 

[SakeVision]

One way to see what you really care more for, plot or character, is what kind of tags do you look for when searching for porn?

Do you look for tags like succubus, elf, loli, MILF, yandere, etc? You probably care more for the characters

Do you look for tags like NTR, mind break, rape, etc? You probably care more for the plot.

Great way to explain it, and I'm team plot all the way~~

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

Yep, but it has to be GL, though. If the mc gender-bended and ends up with a man, I‘ll drop.

Well, funny of you to say. Since GB, the MC changes. So, who is to say their preference will still be those of a female or male? After all, their chemical components change. :3 Sexuality is made once you are born. But if your entire body changes, then theoretically it can change too. Brain chemistry/structure is so weird! Anything different and your complete personality changes. *Can be seen in brain injuries or tumors.* c:

 

[SailusGebel]

Like I said, you need both in a good story. You can’t separate the two. Characters are the reason why you care about the story, while plot are what keeps your interest.

Good character with shitty plot is boring. On the other hand, shitty character with good plot is mindless fun.

Yeah, and most people here write that they need likable characters. People don't care for the plot, people don't care for how good the characters are. People want a blank slate for their own self-insert. It was an exaggeration. Sure, they want an engaging plot. BUT, that's not what drives them when they are on the lookout for a new story. The main reason they consider reading the story is to have an mc who allows them to self-insert. This is the most important. Everything else is secondary. And let me remind you of your own question. "What is more important, plot or character?" Right now, I gave you an answer.

One way to see what you really care more for, plot or character, is what kind of tags do you look for when searching for porn?

Do you look for tags like succubus, elf, loli, MILF, yandere, etc? You probably care more for the characters

Do you look for tags like NTR, mind break, rape, etc? You probably care more for the plot.

And what should I do if I look for the hentai, depending on the art style? I wrote hentai instead of porn cause lolis, elves, and succubus are rarely found in porn.

 

[SakeVision]

And what should I do if I look for the hentai, depending on the art style? I wrote hentai instead of porn cause lolis, elves, and succubus are rarely found in porn.

Read more hentai. After a while, you will become desensitized to all visual stimuli, and only get aroused by scenarios and kinks.

 

[SailusGebel]

Read more hentai. After a while, you will become desensitized to all visual stimuli, and only get aroused by scenarios and kinks.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

Its easier to build characters in mind. It's harder to construct an enjoyable plot that makes sense without wide gaping plot holes. But a horrible plot makes it hard for characters to even stand on.

I can make characters right now. But without a good story objective they are bland characters I can paste somewhere to be a wallflower. When I got an actual story set up decent, that's when I can peel them off the wall and chunk them into a world made for them. No longer just awkwardly existing.

Ofc some stories focus on character more than plot. If there's a doom and gloom end of world unless stuff happens plot, you probably don't want to talk about Steve 24/7 without mentioning any other plot details significant to doom gloom thing. And plot is gonna be big time. In slice of life, you just focus on the character.

I find stories with better/well-written plots is what am attracted to. May differ from others.

Tired.

 

[greyblob]

Yeah, and most people here write that they need likable characters. People don't care for the plot, people don't care for how good the characters are. People want a blank slate for their own self-insert. It was an exaggeration. Sure, they want an engaging plot. BUT, that's not what drives them when they are on the lookout for a new story. The main reason they consider reading the story is to have an mc who allows them to self-insert. This is the most important. Everything else is secondary. And let me remind you of your own question. "What is more important, plot or character?" Right now, I gave you an answer.

a blank slate isnt a good character. a good character is a believable one with well constructed strengths and flaws. their reasoning and actions remain true to their personality.

Every reader expects some form of relatability, but sometimes the plot is so good, it makes you forget that sense and hooks you.

 

[SailusGebel]

a blank slate isnt a good character. a good character is a believable one with well constructed strengths and flaws. their reasoning and actions remain true to their personality.

Every reader expects some form of relatability, but sometimes the plot is so good, it makes you forget that sense and hooks you.

Maybe you should reread what I've written?

 

[BlackKnightX]

One way to see what you really care more for, plot or character, is what kind of tags do you look for when searching for porn?

Do you look for tags like succubus, elf, loli, MILF, yandere, etc? You probably care more for the characters

Do you look for tags like NTR, mind break, rape, etc? You probably care more for the plot.

What if I look for mind break succubus?

 

[greyblob]

Maybe you should reread what I've written?

nah

Every reader is looking to self insert however they can feel it when the character is poorly written or is a blank slate.

 

[SailusGebel]

nah

Every reader is looking to self insert however they can feel it when the character is poorly written or is a blank slate.

Once again, I advise you to reread.

 

[greyblob]

Once again, I advise you to reread.

will do tomorrow
im half asleep and rambling

 

[BlackKnightX]

Well, funny of you to say. Since GB, the MC changes. So, who is to say their preference will still be those of a female or male? After all, their chemical components change. :3 Sexuality is made once you are born. But if your entire body changes, then theoretically it can change too. Brain chemistry/structure is so weird! Anything different and your complete personality changes. *Can be seen in brain injuries or tumors.* c:

Like I said, it’s very subjective. For me, I don’t look for reality when reading a story. Anything can be thrown at me no matter how weird or silly it is. I still read it as long as it’s fun.

But if the story takes itself too seriously. If it tries to be as realistic as possible, then it can limit the possibility and ruin the fun.

That said, I’ll read GB if the mc likes girls like I do. Or, if there’s no romance, then that’s fine too.

It doesn’t matter whether it makes sense or not. If it’s fun, then count me in!

Its easier to build characters in mind. It's harder to construct an enjoyable plot that makes sense without wide gaping plot holes. But a horrible plot makes it hard for characters to even stand on.

I can make characters right now. But without a good story objective they are bland characters I can paste somewhere to be a wallflower. When I got an actual story set up decent, that's when I can peel them off the wall and chunk them into a world made them. No longer just awkwardly existing.

Ofc some stories focus on character more than plot. If there's a doom and gloom end of world unless stuff happens plot, you probably don't want to talk about Steve 24/7 without mentioning any other plot details significant to doom gloom thing. And plot is gonna be big time. In slice of life, you just focus on the character.

I find stories with better/well-written plots is what am attracted to. May differ from others.

Tired.

Get some rest, my friend.

 

[JM_Webb]

Character. It's basically factual.

You can have a slice of life with no plot.

You can't have a plot with no characters because the plot is only as important as the audience's attachment to the characters.

Basically this. Jane Austen, who I am currently reading, is basically all character and small plot. It's about having the characters bounce off of each other as they go through their lives. It's basically slice of life with a throughline of Darcy and Elizabeth's relationship