Writing is not just writing.

forli

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
121
Points
103
Writing a novel here is not just about the writing, there's a social aspect to it that I'm REALLY bad at, which is both receiving criticism and reading other novels that I hate. That's why I'm doubting if I should have started writing at all, I do like the writing but it seems like the social part is just not for me...

I'm a very negative person... I always seem to focus only on negative things, especially when I get emotional like I did today. A single bad comment cancels out 100 good ones in my mind.

And I just cannot let go of a bad experience. I keep thinking and thinking about it, making it even worse in my head. That's why I cannot just let go of my hatred for a certain novel, it's become an unhealthy obsession for me and I cannot forget about it no matter how hard I try. Just seeing it being mentioned made me get uncontrollably angry...
 

SailusGebel

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
9,481
Points
233
That sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it. If you think it's unhealthy at least take a break from writing, reading, and visiting SH. Who knows, maybe at the time when you return to SH the novel that you dislike will disappear.
 

Tyranomaster

Guy who writes stuff
Joined
Oct 5, 2022
Messages
333
Points
108
I always rationalize in three ways depending on the negative comment.

First option, the story just isn't that reader's preference, and that is ok, I'm not trying to write a story that every single person wants to read.

Second option, if its grammar or word choice critique, well, thanks for being a free editor. I'll fix it, and every reader from this point on will enjoy the story more.

Third option, the person got very passionately angry about the story, and they didn't like where something went, which means they were SO emotionally invested that it made them VERY upset that the story didn't go a certain way. Which means the writing was good, but the direction of the story wasn't to their taste.
 

LunaSoltaer

Spicy Transbian
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
664
Points
133
It's extremely hard to not be negative. Ot bites, it churns, it rips you apart.

What I do is, I power through it using the hell flames of spite. I'm learning to supplement that with actual positive light, which I have gained from some transformative experiences, but it is a deliberate act of defiance, refusing to succumb to your emotional lust and base instinct.

Just, make sure you diversify your emotional portfolio. Spite works but it's hell. You want joy and meaning too.

I commend you for reaching out and seeking help in this intimate and personal struggle. Keep it up. I have gained considerable respect for you for this.
 

Le_ther

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2022
Messages
302
Points
78
Writing a novel here is not just about the writing, there's a social aspect to it that I'm REALLY bad at, which is both receiving criticism and reading other novels that I hate. That's why I'm doubting if I should have started writing at all, I do like the writing but it seems like the social part is just not for me...

I'm a very negative person... I always seem to focus only on negative things, especially when I get emotional like I did today. A single bad comment cancels out 100 good ones in my mind.

And I just cannot let go of a bad experience. I keep thinking and thinking about it, making it even worse in my head. That's why I cannot just let go of my hatred for a certain novel, it's become an unhealthy obsession for me and I cannot forget about it no matter how hard I try. Just seeing it being mentioned made me get uncontrollably angry...


Start writing. It doesn't matter if you receive criticism nor if you hate reading certain novels. As long as you're able to reach the state of enjoyment and flow. You would be able to create what you truly wish to write.

- also said by a guy who can't write because I'm lazy as fk
 
D

Deleted member 54065

Guest
Writing a novel here is not just about the writing, there's a social aspect to it that I'm REALLY bad at, which is both receiving criticism and reading other novels that I hate. That's why I'm doubting if I should have started writing at all, I do like the writing but it seems like the social part is just not for me...
Writing is indeed not just about writing, it also includes your attitude and perspective on your hobby/passion. While criticism is part of the 'creative' pastimes, it sure rocks an author's self-esteem when one receives it.

But just try. Not necessarily you'd publish it, if that's what you're afraid of. Just let some ideas out of your mind.

I'm a very negative person... I always seem to focus only on negative things, especially when I get emotional like I did today. A single bad comment cancels out 100 good ones in my mind.
One bad (negative) feedback voids the 100 others, and this is normal. Most authors who don't give a damn about those either developed a thick skin, or just got used to it. It takes time, but apathy does happen, especially if you're often bombarded by ugly comments.

And I just cannot let go of a bad experience. I keep thinking and thinking about it, making it even worse in my head. That's why I cannot just let go of my hatred for a certain novel, it's become an unhealthy obsession for me and I cannot forget about it no matter how hard I try. Just seeing it being mentioned made me get uncontrollably angry...
Now this has something to do with how you see writing. While many authors find affirmation on others, like getting praised, being popular, or seeing other works/authors go down the drain, it's quite unhealthy to base your will to write on those alone.

Reason is, once you proved you're 'superior' or your work is 'excellent', what now?

So yeah, try aiming for a much higher goal if you want to start and stay in writing. 😉
 

Viator

Wandering Moon that conceals the tide
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
198
Points
83
Writing a novel here is not just about the writing, there's a social aspect to it that I'm REALLY bad at, which is both receiving criticism and reading other novels that I hate. That's why I'm doubting if I should have started writing at all, I do like the writing but it seems like the social part is just not for me...

I'm a very negative person... I always seem to focus only on negative things, especially when I get emotional like I did today. A single bad comment cancels out 100 good ones in my mind.

And I just cannot let go of a bad experience. I keep thinking and thinking about it, making it even worse in my head. That's why I cannot just let go of my hatred for a certain novel, it's become an unhealthy obsession for me and I cannot forget about it no matter how hard I try. Just seeing it being mentioned made me get uncontrollably angry...
As long as you are not looking to make a career out of writing, (as the approach can be vastly different.) Let me give a small piece of advice for writing, or any art. Do not write for the peanut gallery. Do not do art for anyone other than yourself. This can be hard to practice, especially in this age of connected technology. It's tempting to look and care about what people think. The only enemy in any art form should be yourself. If you want to get better at the technical aspects, there are resources for that without you taking any personal criticism from anybody else. You absolutely do not have to read from anyone you hate. (There are known authors who specifically avoided reading anything so as not to unknowingly effect their own work.) There is no "right" way to go about writing when you are doing it for its own sake.

Writing only to make money is different than writing for art, you often sacrifice artistic value for templates that work within the economic environment, play to the public, and the most important aspect I would say is to be as steady and prolific in your writing as possible. It takes a lot of discipline, and I wouldn't advise it. Making a career out of writing is one of the hardest things you can do. Especially now, where the market is saturated, and you have ai stepping into the fray.

In the end, if it is important to you, you'll always come back to it. Know your weaknesses, and know yourself to work around your specific difficulties. It sounds like you already know what doesn't doesn't work for you, do your best to find a method that does.
 

EnoraTwilight

My brain have wrinkles
Joined
Mar 30, 2023
Messages
72
Points
33
I think you are too invested in the opinions of others and another person's novel. Why are you letting someone else's novel influence your own thoughts so heavily? I know which novel you are talking about, and your hatred for that novel runs deep. Your perspective is skewed so heavily one way, and you are losing by letting it influence your thoughts too much. Well that is how obsessions work, I guess.
 

whitesculptor

The princess whispers & the keyboard clacks.
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
139
Points
83
Don't bother with what other people say unless it's helpful and only if you wish to improve your level.
When I don't feel like writing, I read reviews of random published books, mainly best sellers. (It's filled with atrocities.)
Thus, you, me, and everyone else on this platform give or take we're a bunch of amateurs whose works are a pure sample of the real thing.
My opinion? Take it easy, and enjoy the world.
If you appreciate doing what you're doing, keep at it.
If you suffer from it but still enjoy it, go easier on yourself.
You only live once. Therefore, have fun.
 

Vnator

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
440
Points
133
Yup, both are big challenges. But to be fair, those are what you do if you want to get better and improve your craft.

Taking criticism is all about ego, but even if you can't let it go or quash it (I can't either), then the next best thing is to look at any criticism from what is actually making someone say it. I got a lot of criticisms on the forums about my latest story about how it was a terrible isekai because the main character is unrealistic, but after thinking about it more, I realized that that person just has a very narrow view on how an isekai should start. Main character transmigrates, freaks out about it, follows up with very specific actions and has very specific thoughts and feelings, etc. My character freaks out about it, but doesn't let it bog them down and instead immediately heads to a library to get more info on his situation. Apparently, that was considered "trash-tier" and "bad writing".

Of course, that's a stupid way to look at it! I got upset and it did affect me, but that realization helps push a lot of the bad feelings away. Looking at criticism as some kind of robotic function of how a stranger's mind reacts to certain words or elements in a story makes you feel less emotional about it. Instead, it's a game where you try to find why they're actually saying what they are. Is it their own experiences and views? Maybe something about a scene hit them emotionally in a way they don't like, and could be tweaked to hit them a little differently in a way that's more satisfying? Or maybe they're just an idiot? So that way, it's fun!

As for reading other stories to git gud, don't worry about it. Just read what you enjoy, and it doesn't even have to be from this site. I've only ever read like 2 stories from here, and that was because they were top-tier, had a lot of chapters, and weren't on RR. I'm picky, and there's nothing wrong with that when most of the stuff here is self-insert power fantasy harem trash.
 

Anon2024

????????? (???/???)
Joined
Apr 18, 2022
Messages
3,385
Points
183
You actually have a point here.
Normally an author in the past would finish writing their story before publishing it and having other's read it and giving feed back. Or it would be before they published as test readers.

While in the middle of writing and having chapters come out means there will be people who will criticize your story or even try to influence the direction it goes in. They'll be frustrated or even wonder why someone is suffering so much. The problem often lies in the fact that the story is not complete, and once the story is complete then perhaps all the frustrating things you're putting out make sense later.

In a full book, you can put in what's known as a delayed gratification or catharsis, but in a web novel, since chapters come out once a day or once a week, that delay in the gratification becomes frustrating, and it's often reflected in comments.

Bad comments aren't always criticizing your writing, but expression of frustration that the story doesn't progress and they have to spend more time checking in each day reading it.
 

Lloyd

Professional Writer
Joined
Jun 2, 2020
Messages
2,364
Points
153
Writing a novel here is not just about the writing, there's a social aspect to it that I'm REALLY bad at, which is both receiving criticism and reading other novels that I hate. That's why I'm doubting if I should have started writing at all, I do like the writing but it seems like the social part is just not for me...

I'm a very negative person... I always seem to focus only on negative things, especially when I get emotional like I did today. A single bad comment cancels out 100 good ones in my mind.

And I just cannot let go of a bad experience. I keep thinking and thinking about it, making it even worse in my head. That's why I cannot just let go of my hatred for a certain novel, it's become an unhealthy obsession for me and I cannot forget about it no matter how hard I try. Just seeing it being mentioned made me get uncontrollably angry...
Just stop taking shit so seriously
 

DubstheDuke

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
301
Points
103
You want the honest truth?

As a writer, the only person's opinion you should care about is your own.

If you enjoy your work, then that is all that should matter. Why write a story that tailors to everyone else's taste if it doesn't even entertain you?

Who cares if people dislike it? Who cares if everyone shits all over it? As a matter of fact - the fact that you're even getting any attention at all is far more than most receive.

I remember a particular review I had received on my story where one user decided to go absolutely ballistic and wrote - I kid you not - an entire essay on my story to explain how horrible it was.

I'm talking at least 500 words, but probably more like 1000. The review was removed for how toxic it was but I kept it for my own motivation. See below if you have the time to actually read it.

I dropped this here. Honestly, everything aside from the character creation has been a slog; I was hoping that nightmare mode might improve the story but.. whilst I like the weak to strong dynamic, it feels very poorly executed here to the point that the MCs are so weak that it's just frustrating to read. The only way for them to survive is to literally hope for luck as the author 'AuthorSME' wrote in his A Tail's Misfortune, "luck is for the weak and the strong make their own fate." The only way for them to get stronger is to rely purely on luck, there is no ability for them to be considered skilled or talented. I just can't respect or like characters who have no ability beyond pure chance (even the idea of dumping all points into luck stat is still a choice and not as bad as this.)

The only character I find remotely relatable is Ashley. Trevor and Garett come off like Robots and Samantha is just straight up annoying. I don't even want to know these characters.

The world setting doesn't interest me. The seeming lack of originality in the classes puts me off.

All in all this seems like a very boring, frustrating read. I can't help but feel you've wasted your time writing this (and mine reading it, but I only have myself and my stubborn attitude to keep reading hoping it'll get better for that.) Only 69 readers this far in. I wanted to like this, really I did. But it's just so.. bleh. It's like every terribly generic fantasy isekai JP web novel combined, taking away anything interesting or unique, throw in some random teeny bopper/child 'humour' (spikey hair gel? Really? That's funny to you?) and somehow came out as less than the sum of it's parts. And I'd know, I've read hundreds of them, from Death Mage who doesn't want a Fourth Time to Slime Datta Tensei and everything in between, for some reason my mind's drawing a blank on JP webnovel names because I've read thousands of novels by this point and most of them were a 6, maybe a 7 at best because of their generic (and thus forgettable) nature.

My point is; what is this man. What are you doing. Come on. This is like a bike with training wheels, the only people it appeals to are people who have never read anything before, your concepts are that basic. Though for such a person, you'd need to explain what the stats are etc, because they wouldn't know, so you don't even really hit that reader demographic.

It actually frustrates me to see that, you have the dedication to write hundreds of thousands of words; but THIS is what you do with it. It's like Thor using Mjolrnir to roast a chicken and just like said chicken after being hit by Godly Lightning, it's inedible.

Most authors write some 20k-30k words with an extremely interesting premise, but give up because they think they're not good enough writers or their story didn't go the way they wanted. I've read stories that have literally given me goosebumps and made my heart race, with less than 10k words before the author vanished; you have no idea how irritating, frustrating and all manner of negative emotions come to mind, it is when the novels that do get enough content to be at a point of binge reading, that this is what gets put out there. It's like going to a high class restaurant and they've hired a teenager from McDonalds to cook the meals. Your novel is the frozen, microwaved meal that's still cold in the middle; when there are Chefs who can blow people away with their cooking who are unemployed or working at a fucking Lobster Shack or Hooters just to make ends meet.

This is somewhat unfair to you, but you're part of a much larger problem and I'm so fucking fed up of the repeating cycle of somehow trash novels being the ones that could have provided days of entertainment, vs the actually good and unique novels that get dropped or go on Hiatus with an hour or two worth of binge reading.

It's like, you know when you go on Twitter and someone says something asinine like "we need to stop pollution!" and they somehow get thousands of retweets, but the guy with the tweet that actually proposes solutions and holds elected office where he can make an actual difference only gets like 80 retweets; it's exactly like that. It's like no one cares about anything real, with actual substance to it, they just want the basic platitudes, the surface level comments. Your novel is like the surface level comments with no real substance that somehow keeps getting retweeted and shared by people. And yeah, that's probably really harsh, but again, you're just part of a MUCH larger problem. I think what the problem really comes down to is like, a writer's form of Dunning-Kruger syndrome. Dumb people thinking they're smart and thus somehow succeeding in competition against actually intelligent people who second guess themselves and can actually analyze risk, so because the dumb people don't have any foresight for risk, they just go ahead and take reckless actions that somehow work out. Bad writers thinking they're great, whilst the great writers are too nervous and unwilling to get their works judged negatively so they just stop writing altogether to "rewrite" or go on "hiatus" and in the end, ALL OF US lose. The stories they keep in their minds are the ones we'll never get to read and I find it depressing and aggravating.


I'll note that this was at a point in my story that I had released around 150+- chapters, with very few readers and almost no comments. I wrote and I wrote and I wrote with next to no feedback, no response, no encouragement - just posting day after day hoping for a single comment or like.

To say that my heart was shattered upon reading this review would have been an understatement, but I was also kind of happy.

I was happy that someone could be so invested in my story that they would hate it so much.

I was happy that they accused me of taking away from the good authors, of stealing the thunder when there was absolutely no thunder I had stolen in the first place. Because compared to the results I had achieved at that time, the fantasy within this person's mind of my success was far beyond anything that I had actually achieved.

And I found that funny.

At the time I read this review, having written hundreds of thousands of words on my story, I legitimately considered quitting - for the first and only time.

But then, I realized something.

Why do I write?

Why did I create my story?

Was it for other people to read?

Was it for other people to like?

Perhaps that was a part of it - but that wasn't the real reason.

It was because I liked writing.

I enjoyed the content I wrote. I loved my characters, I loved my world, I loved everything that I had done.

This review was written after this user had read only 13 chapters of my story, which told me that he was only reviewing how bad my writing was at the very beginning. And without doubt, some of his points were legitimate. There was plenty of room for improvement. But how else are we supposed to improve without failing first?

He said many things. He talked about how generic the story was, while also talking about how he hated the characters and couldn't relate to them whatsoever (Two things that I find completely opposite, since my characters were originally designed to be somewhat demented as a means of not being a generic story).

He talked about how my novel was "The microwave meal that's still cold in the middle." Aka - garbage.

But most importantly - he asked me one question.

My point is; what is this man. What are you doing.

It actually frustrates me to see that, you have the dedication to write hundreds of thousands of words; but THIS is what you do with it.


Even now, after years have passed, after I finished my story following 1.5 million words, 18 volumes spanning 487 chapters, and after starting a new story with the immense amounts of experience I had gained, these words still hurt.

But damn, they motivate the hell out of me.

If the haters don't motivate you, then what can?

There is nobody so passionate about your writing than the people who hate it. So don't despise them. Embrace them. And prove them wrong.

-Dubstheduke
 

RebelLion

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Messages
32
Points
58
You want the honest truth?

As a writer, the only person's opinion you should care about is your own.

If you enjoy your work, then that is all that should matter. Why write a story that tailors to everyone else's taste if it doesn't even entertain you?

Who cares if people dislike it? Who cares if everyone shits all over it? As a matter of fact - the fact that you're even getting any attention at all is far more than most receive.

I remember a particular review I had received on my story where one user decided to go absolutely ballistic and wrote - I kid you not - an entire essay on my story to explain how horrible it was.

I'm talking at least 500 words, but probably more like 1000. The review was removed for how toxic it was but I kept it for my own motivation. See below if you have the time to actually read it.

I dropped this here. Honestly, everything aside from the character creation has been a slog; I was hoping that nightmare mode might improve the story but.. whilst I like the weak to strong dynamic, it feels very poorly executed here to the point that the MCs are so weak that it's just frustrating to read. The only way for them to survive is to literally hope for luck as the author 'AuthorSME' wrote in his A Tail's Misfortune, "luck is for the weak and the strong make their own fate." The only way for them to get stronger is to rely purely on luck, there is no ability for them to be considered skilled or talented. I just can't respect or like characters who have no ability beyond pure chance (even the idea of dumping all points into luck stat is still a choice and not as bad as this.)

The only character I find remotely relatable is Ashley. Trevor and Garett come off like Robots and Samantha is just straight up annoying. I don't even want to know these characters.

The world setting doesn't interest me. The seeming lack of originality in the classes puts me off.

All in all this seems like a very boring, frustrating read. I can't help but feel you've wasted your time writing this (and mine reading it, but I only have myself and my stubborn attitude to keep reading hoping it'll get better for that.) Only 69 readers this far in. I wanted to like this, really I did. But it's just so.. bleh. It's like every terribly generic fantasy isekai JP web novel combined, taking away anything interesting or unique, throw in some random teeny bopper/child 'humour' (spikey hair gel? Really? That's funny to you?) and somehow came out as less than the sum of it's parts. And I'd know, I've read hundreds of them, from Death Mage who doesn't want a Fourth Time to Slime Datta Tensei and everything in between, for some reason my mind's drawing a blank on JP webnovel names because I've read thousands of novels by this point and most of them were a 6, maybe a 7 at best because of their generic (and thus forgettable) nature.

My point is; what is this man. What are you doing. Come on. This is like a bike with training wheels, the only people it appeals to are people who have never read anything before, your concepts are that basic. Though for such a person, you'd need to explain what the stats are etc, because they wouldn't know, so you don't even really hit that reader demographic.

It actually frustrates me to see that, you have the dedication to write hundreds of thousands of words; but THIS is what you do with it. It's like Thor using Mjolrnir to roast a chicken and just like said chicken after being hit by Godly Lightning, it's inedible.

Most authors write some 20k-30k words with an extremely interesting premise, but give up because they think they're not good enough writers or their story didn't go the way they wanted. I've read stories that have literally given me goosebumps and made my heart race, with less than 10k words before the author vanished; you have no idea how irritating, frustrating and all manner of negative emotions come to mind, it is when the novels that do get enough content to be at a point of binge reading, that this is what gets put out there. It's like going to a high class restaurant and they've hired a teenager from McDonalds to cook the meals. Your novel is the frozen, microwaved meal that's still cold in the middle; when there are Chefs who can blow people away with their cooking who are unemployed or working at a fucking Lobster Shack or Hooters just to make ends meet.

This is somewhat unfair to you, but you're part of a much larger problem and I'm so fucking fed up of the repeating cycle of somehow trash novels being the ones that could have provided days of entertainment, vs the actually good and unique novels that get dropped or go on Hiatus with an hour or two worth of binge reading.

It's like, you know when you go on Twitter and someone says something asinine like "we need to stop pollution!" and they somehow get thousands of retweets, but the guy with the tweet that actually proposes solutions and holds elected office where he can make an actual difference only gets like 80 retweets; it's exactly like that. It's like no one cares about anything real, with actual substance to it, they just want the basic platitudes, the surface level comments. Your novel is like the surface level comments with no real substance that somehow keeps getting retweeted and shared by people. And yeah, that's probably really harsh, but again, you're just part of a MUCH larger problem. I think what the problem really comes down to is like, a writer's form of Dunning-Kruger syndrome. Dumb people thinking they're smart and thus somehow succeeding in competition against actually intelligent people who second guess themselves and can actually analyze risk, so because the dumb people don't have any foresight for risk, they just go ahead and take reckless actions that somehow work out. Bad writers thinking they're great, whilst the great writers are too nervous and unwilling to get their works judged negatively so they just stop writing altogether to "rewrite" or go on "hiatus" and in the end, ALL OF US lose. The stories they keep in their minds are the ones we'll never get to read and I find it depressing and aggravating.


I'll note that this was at a point in my story that I had released around 150+- chapters, with very few readers and almost no comments. I wrote and I wrote and I wrote with next to no feedback, no response, no encouragement - just posting day after day hoping for a single comment or like.

To say that my heart was shattered upon reading this review would have been an understatement, but I was also kind of happy.

I was happy that someone could be so invested in my story that they would hate it so much.

I was happy that they accused me of taking away from the good authors, of stealing the thunder when there was absolutely no thunder I had stolen in the first place. Because compared to the results I had achieved at that time, the fantasy within this person's mind of my success was far beyond anything that I had actually achieved.

And I found that funny.

At the time I read this review, having written hundreds of thousands of words on my story, I legitimately considered quitting - for the first and only time.

But then, I realized something.

Why do I write?

Why did I create my story?

Was it for other people to read?

Was it for other people to like?

Perhaps that was a part of it - but that wasn't the real reason.

It was because I liked writing.

I enjoyed the content I wrote. I loved my characters, I loved my world, I loved everything that I had done.

This review was written after this user had read only 13 chapters of my story, which told me that he was only reviewing how bad my writing was at the very beginning. And without doubt, some of his points were legitimate. There was plenty of room for improvement. But how else are we supposed to improve without failing first?

He said many things. He talked about how generic the story was, while also talking about how he hated the characters and couldn't relate to them whatsoever (Two things that I find completely opposite, since my characters were originally designed to be somewhat demented as a means of not being a generic story).

He talked about how my novel was "The microwave meal that's still cold in the middle." Aka - garbage.

But most importantly - he asked me one question.

My point is; what is this man. What are you doing.

It actually frustrates me to see that, you have the dedication to write hundreds of thousands of words; but THIS is what you do with it.


Even now, after years have passed, after I finished my story following 1.5 million words, 18 volumes spanning 487 chapters, and after starting a new story with the immense amounts of experience I had gained, these words still hurt.

But damn, they motivate the hell out of me.

If the haters don't motivate you, then what can?

There is nobody so passionate about your writing than the people who hate it. So don't despise them. Embrace them. And prove them wrong.

-Dubstheduke
Based.
 
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